26 de septiembre de 2012

GREAT EXPECTATIONS, Charles Dickens

Fifths, welcome to this new course (2012/2013) during which we hope, we know, you will greatly improve your English and acquaire great skill in Reading Comprehension and Writing by using our blog, where we will discuss this great novel, this masterpiece.

262 comentarios:

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Roberto dijo...

Hello everyone,

Pip, London and Dickens. Be prepared to read one of the best works of this famous (and my favourite) English novelist. Who has not ever heard about it?

Having the opportunity to read it in English is something worth undertaking. Despite the pleasure you would feel by reading this novel on your own, there is nothing like being able to talk and comment about it since there is always something regarding ourselves reflected in dickens’ stories, and for those like me who cannot express with words the inward and complex world that our mind and heart are, it is a bless to find it expressively, truly and faithfully written by this unique hand.

Have fun and post, post and post comments please.

Best wishes

Marta P. dijo...

I bought the novel last monday and I really felt like reading it. It is going to be my first Dickens' story and I'm looking forward to discover how the film (I saw the modern one version with Gwyneth Paltrow)resembles the novel.

Marta P. dijo...

I bought the novel last monday and I really felt like reading it. It is going to be my first Dickens' story and I'm looking forward to discovering how the film (I saw the modern one version with Gwyneth Paltrow)resembles the novel.

Mónica Cagiao dijo...

Hi everyone!

I´ve finished the first chapter and about to finish the second one. I love Dicken´s novels. The way he expresses everything as if he were joking! I wanted to point out a sentence in the first chapter where he is describing Pip siblings death... How can a description of this kind be fun!!
"(...) gave up trying to get a living exceedingly early in that universal struggle".
Is it not gorgeous? It is, at least, for me!
I am of the same opinion as Roberto. The more you write the more you improve. At the same time, to write in the blog is more interesting.
So Keep writing!!
Just one question, how many chapter a week or a day are you going to read? Many thanks!

Africa (Av 2A) dijo...

Hello everyone!
Like Marta P. "Great Expectations" is going to be my first Dickens' novel in English.I have to confess that I was a little bit afraid but after reading the first chapter, I am very cheerful and looking forward to read the next one and so on. I don't know if we could comment the chapters before having it done in class. In any case, I only want to say "Welcome Dickens!"...

Laura de Arriba dijo...

I have just read the first and second chapter of the novel and I am really impressed by Dickens’ capacity of putting himself into a child’s mind to know how they think and perceive the reality at that early age. For example, how Pip infers his parents’ appearance from the inscriptions on their gravestones is really remarkable.
At the beginning of the second chapter there is a really funny passage in which Pip depicts the way his sister has brought him up: “by hand”. And he also thinks that her husband has been brought up and married to her in the same way, so to say, by force.
Lastly, I would like to mention the outstanding family scene that Dickens has written in the second chapter. He depicts that sort of little arguments and bad humored talks that take place in every home around the world, especially if there is a family member as unfriendly as Mrs. Joe Gargery.

Marta P. - 5º C dijo...

I agree with Monica in the fact that there are some funny passages in chapter one but, in general, I think that Pip is a poor boy, lonely and isolated in the middle of the marshes so I think Dickens has put a big amount of sadness in his description.
In comparison with The Woman in White, Great Expectations is more vivid and, I suppose, it reflects reality better because Wilkie Collins' characters express themselves in a evident cult manner, even if they belong to a low social class.
Maybe some colloquialisms and ways of expressing in Great Expectations are difficult to grasp.

Carmen dijo...

Hi, folks!
First of all welcome to those who have posted and a very hearty one to those who posted from England, that is Roberto, Monica and Laura. the schedule we are following is two chapters per week and we are not supposed to move faster as it would ruin the story. So glad that you are with us, keep us updated about London!!!
Marta P, to which group do you belong? please ake sure you post your name and then 5C, for instance so that I can recgnise you more or less on line.
What can I say about Dickens? if he is so good portraying children wha is it going to be like with adults?
What I think he excels in is the fact that through a little instance, a small action, a gesture, and we grasp the character, the feelings of the character. rest assured that if you can read and understand Dickens you are proficient in English even if your speech is slighty worse. the pleasure you will for ever obtain from reading English literature will be worth its while.

Fernando 5º C dijo...

Hello everyone and welcome on board, hehe, this is my second experience with dickens after little dorrit and I am very pleased about repeating author because i can deal with it as I could achieve formerly. Concerning to the first two chapters i want to say that I am taking pity of both, Pip and Joe, finally there is a female character who acts in a bad way, don´t you think , Carmen?

Anónimo dijo...

Laura C. Adv.2-C

I have never read a Dicken´s book before so it is going to be a new challenge to me.

In the second chapter there is a funny moment that I want to comment, it is when Pip´s sister is spreading the butter on the loaf.

I imagine her like a grotesque woman so I suppose she should spread the butter in a brusque way. She takes the bread against her apron which has needles and pins and she starts to spread the butter but neither with brusque movements nor in and rude way. She spreads the butter like in a ritual moving the knife fast with skill using the both side of the knife and Pips´s compares her with a apothecary!.

Africa Mir 5A dijo...

Hello,
I agree with those of you who thinks that Dickens have a really funny way to show us tragic scenes and lived moments by Pip. And not only portraying Pip's sister (whose name appears not to exist. Maybe Pip has erased it from his memories), if not showing us the regular tendency in those days in hitting boys with a cane (the cane has even a name, like a pet...). I also agree with you Carmen, concerning at the vivid descriptions of the characters that made Dickens. It allows us to imagine almost exactly how they were, in both terms: in their physically appearance and in their souls. I would like to point out the paragraph in which Pip tell us who feels a little boy under terror. To me is very powerful without saying almost nothing. And in the same paragraph we could see for the first time that Pip is telling us the story remembering his childhood (hitherto the story runs in real time).

Anónimo dijo...

Dickens is arguably the best writer in the history of prose. His descriptions are the most accurate and his plots are always masterly woven. Furthermore, in my opinion, one of his best abilities is the way he softens the harsh reality. He normally depicts cruel, horrible or unwished situations with a fantastic sense of humour, which makes his novels unique. Indeed, I admire his wit and mastery of language, always finding the perfect word for each scene, be it feeling or action.
Enjoy Great Expectations!
Maria

Carmen dijo...

Fernando, Mrs. Joe is indeed a cruel woman, however I´m not sure I´ve used the word well, she works, keeps her house, tries to look after her family...but I dread to think, in fact I cannot imagine her being sweet, or loving with either brother or husband...she must have had a hard youth, she has buried her parens and five brothers..this is indeed a blow for any human, and braved life with a baby brother..

Carmen dijo...

Africa and Laura C (you are not A2 but 5, proficiency level, ok)both of you remark on the wonderful descriptions, which are indeed so. How well do we see the characters? they are so real! because with one or wo indications of their ways, habits, speeches, we get the perfect image of their inner selves, I mean the characters themselves.

Carmen dijo...

maría, clear, well written and to the point...you see, folks what reading and writing does for you? You have pointed out that the harshness of a situation is softend by humour, yes and by nearness, he brings the characters close to us, we somehow identify what he describes

Marta P. - 5º C dijo...

I agree with you, Carmen, in the fact that hard experiences in life change the way we interact with people. Maybe Mrs. Gargery is victim of a cruel life since her early years and she thinks growing up Pip in a hard manner can make him stronger. However, will the novel offer a softened version of her?

carmen dijo...

keep reading:::

Laura de Arriba dijo...

I agree with some of you, who have pointed out that Dickens is awesomely able to tell us a downhearted and grim story in such a sly way that you think of it as a little bit less dispirited and troublesome. In these first pages, Pip is telling us his childhood as he perceived it at that time, and, in my opinion, aware as he was of his ill-tempered sister and their poverty, he did not perceive it as so harsh and gloomy as we do, outsiders of the story. Furthermore, he has one thing that is the most important treasure we could have, a true friend, Joe. There will be no loneliness for Pip while Joe is around. They understand each other perfectly well and together can face the difficulties and endure Mrs. Gargery’s cruelty.

I also agree with Carmen that Mrs. Gargery has her good reasons for being so grumpy with her family, but instead of being always angry, mean and unkind towards them, she could do an effort seeing them as a reason for happiness: she (who is a plain woman) has managed to marry a hard-working, gentle and well-behaved man that, not only has accepted her brother in his house, but also he truly loves him and cares for him. I think she is not happy with herself in her deepest mind and, as a way of relief, she is stern and cruel towards those who she thinks have the guilt. In my opinion, she would have liked to have her own children instead of bringing-up her brother. However, I do not think of the Gargery marriage as one with family aspirations, but one to fight solitude, don’t you agree?

Carmen dijo...

Laura, a very good post, shows mastery in the use of language and proficiency in the capacity of expressing our ideas.
I do not think that Mrs. Gargery wants children but in those days it was the one reason for marriage, or the main reason. It si not as if they pay each other company either, it is more a marriage of convenience, it was cinvenient for Joe to have a woman about the house and for mrs. Joe to be married. but Joe is a kindhearted old chap, he feels for the little one, and let´s ask ourselves how many of us feel for children? for their feelings, their worries, their ambitions, their fears? what is the reaction of society currently to children? understand them or pamper them? are children conceived for their parents benefit or for the preservance of our race? do we take the Christian view of looking after them as one of God´s children, or is it just the security of a lazy woman, hoping to be maintained because she has had "issue"?

María del Campo-5ºC dijo...

I really like how Joe defends Pip and how they comunicate through gestures in order to avoid Mrs.Joe . I think Pip is lucky having Joe on his side, as well as being uncle and nephew they are friends and help each other when they can.

Africa 5ªA dijo...

For those of you who are interested in the audio of Great Expectations I have found this link which is legal and free. It is the book complete and chapter by chapter separately. Enjoy it!

http://librivox.org/great-expectations-by-charles-dickens/

Africa 5ºA dijo...

I actually do not think that Mrs. Gargery is an awful woman, nor her behaviour cruel. In my opinion is simpler: she is living a non chosen lifestyle and she is doing her best in the way that she only has been taught. We have not to forget that in those times family behaviour was not the same as nowadays is.
I totally agree with Carmen, concerning at the question of why we have children nowadays. Maybe we have them because of our ego, maybe in the same way we have material possessions, because a kind of competition with our friends, or the worst: because it is a must to fill empty lives.
A mother is not only a woman who has conceived children, a mother is much more, and this is what nowadays seems to have forgotten a lot of people.

Carmen dijo...

http://www.openculture.com/freeaudiobooks

me lo envia un graduate, para bajarse pelis, audio books, etc, for free.

Carmen dijo...

Yes, the relationship between Joe and Pip is extraordinary. do you think one can get as close in real life, can one be as generous as Joe, what is your opinion about generosity? would you say it takes us straight up to Heaven? What would you say is, on the contrary the sin that takes down to the Pitch?

Marta P. - 5º C dijo...

Carmen, I would say that nowadays and unfortunately, total generosity, as we can see with Pip and Joe, is a weird characteristic in human behaviour, as I conclude after my personal experience. I think it should be the rule in close friendship relationships, even in marriages, but we have been taught in a extremely selfish way of living, so it's difficult, even embarrassing, being generous and helpful.

By the way, listening the novel is a great thing. The reader of the version of my adiobook gives emphasis to the expressions and tries to simulate the way Mrs. Joe and Joe talk, so it is very helpful to get into the novel.

María del Campo 5ºC dijo...

Well I think that generosity is one of the best quality that a man has, but you have to have many more values besides generosity to Heaven.

Marta P. - 5ºC dijo...

I think that chapter 4 of the novel is the funniest one of those we have read so far. Can you imagine poor Pip being accused of the complete list of crime related by his sister while he is thinking in the most terrible one, the robbery of the pantry? Besides, Pips's reflection about his own existence encloses a deep thought which is nobody decides to be born but we are responsible for our own life since that moment.

Anónimo dijo...

Hello everyone:
That is the second novel I have read about Charles Dickens . The first one was David Copperfiel´s experiences based in Dicken´s own chilhood. And that Great Expectations I think is a fantasy novel based in fantasy life of Pip.
Belén Av2 D.

Carmen dijo...

Marta and María, generosity is one of the best virtues a human can have. I´m sure there is recompense in Heaven for the generous. Why? because it means that you give yourself to others, it being the opposite to selfishness.
Joe is indeed a character that we immediately like because he thinks about others, and as he says he´d rahter take the trouble on his shoulders than make others suffer. I would certainly like to be like Joe.
Goodness is attractive, donñt you think?

Carmen dijo...

I do think, like Marta, that chapter 4 is funny, very. The fear of the child, the fact that we literally read his thoughts is wonderful. We cannot but feel for Pip.

Carmen dijo...

I´d like to focus on the difference between the two convicts. As in life, as with people there is goodness and evil in all walks of life, even in the convict world we see that there is a good one a nd a bad one.

Carmen dijo...

Hi to this Belén from another group. is it true that you have read David Copperfield? because though it is a brilliant book it is indeed long and difficult. any parallel between Pip and David?

Marta P. - 5º C dijo...

Cowardice and ingenuity in Pip's personality, generosity as the most remarkable Joe's value, Mrs. Joe's survival in life, goodness in the heart of a convict... Dicken is drawing an extremely accurate picture of human beings' feelings and attitudes. The more I read the novel, the more I like the sharpened Dicken's eye.

Carmen dijo...

Marta, how accuratelly you describe it, yes, Dickens is very likeable tha´s why he has resisted on the bookshop and bookshelf for two centuries now. his characters are unforgatable, because he depicts them clearly, he is really "easy" to read.

María del Campo 5ºC dijo...

Pip feels really guilty about not telling his best friend, what he had done, I think he feels afraid of what Joe would think of him, after say the truth, but for his youth he would know that Joe was going to forgive.

Africa M. 5ºA dijo...

I agree with Marta P about chapter four. Actually in all paragraph there are something to laugh about. But I have to say that is a little bit sad too, because of the mistreatment of Pip in the conversation. Dickens has the geniality of tell the very sad things mixing them with laughs. Well, what could I say about Dickens....
And about chapter five, I would like to point out the way that the “good convict” say that he is sorry about having eaten the pie, and how Joe answering him addresses a tag question to Pip. I think it is very important because I had the feeling that Joe knows that Pip has committed the robbery. It is only a personal feeling. What do you think about it?
And finally, chapter six being shorter is full of sentiments to think over about Pip. For instance, we can see the solitude of Pip. He has not friends, only Joe is his companion, but even Joe has not taught him in some aspects of life. And also we can see the most important lesson that human beings learn in childhood and that no one could teach us:
Telling white lies in order to not to lose the others' love.

Laura C. Group 5_C dijo...

In chapter seven Joe tells Pip about his life. When I was reading Joe´s life I was feeling sorry for him. He grew up in a complicated family, his father drunk and he hit Joe´s mum and him as well. They ran away for several times and when his father regretted he looked for them and they came back to live together. I feel sorry for him not only because no child should live in this cruel and unfair situation but he justifies his father and he says although he used to hit them he has a great heart. I have never been able to understand how a person who has suffered any kind of domestic abuse can justify it. Unfortunately this situation is not uncommon in our society.

Carmen dijo...

Africa, I don´t think that Joe is capable of any thought which involves the word suspicion, he is too good too naive to think that Pip ould lie to him. no I don´t think he suspects Pip.
Pp is solitary indeed. We gorws up fearful of tickler and only consoled, supported by Joe. no playing, no friends, what would our children think of that life? compare them full of nintnedos, blackberries, computers, etc. they are in a way solitary, as Pip, but always in company with ciberfriends, unreal friends...

Carmen dijo...

Laura, it is difficult to think that admitting abuse is possible and indeed attractive. in Il portieri di notte we also see that the Jewish woman, in the nazzi camp, becomes the chief´s lover and when freed starts a new life which is immediately forgotten as she mmets the nazzi in the form of the night porter of her hotel, going to the extreme of abandonng her husband and death. absurd. but there you are.

Iris Rico - 5ºC dijo...

I think that Joe tries to make Pip understand how lucky he is for having grown up with his sister who is a “fine figure of a woman”. Although Pip does not share this opinion, he only needs to compare his childhood with Joe’s one who didn’t even have the opportunity to go to school. Pip feels very sad for Joe and it seems that Joe doesn’t bear any grudge against his father. He excuses his father’s behavior from battering them because of his problems with drink.

Laura C. Group 5_C dijo...

If I had to define the chapter eight I would say it is depressing and grim. I have imagined the chapter as a Tim Burton´s film. A poor child arriving at an old house near a closed brewery in a grey day and after crossing some dark corridors alone he is coming in a living room where is an old and strange woman wearing a yellowish wedding dress. If I were Pip I am sure I would be terrified.

Carmen dijo...

Iris, Joe doesn´t his father a grudge, indeed, what a nice character and what a good man. it is very difficult to accept one´s fathers fault, I think none of us do until we are grown up, we always idealize parents. however what is surprising is that Joe seems to have understood him from the start. Joe´s goodness of heart seems to come from the fact that he is a simple person, as a little boy still in his forgivenesss, adulthood brings us all the ill feelings that form a human, don´t you think?

Carmen dijo...

Laura, and what do you think of Miss Havisham? I think that she has stopped herself from living, from happiess. my question is, can men hurt us to that point? do we know of people who refuse to "move on"? As to Pip, that is the first time that he is aware of a new life existing beyond his very small, dreary circle, where only Joe seems to be a kind person towards him...that the effect created in this awreness is negative to his happiness is only too natural, too real, wisdom then brings sorow, we are happ in our cocoon until we come out into the world and see that there is something new outside, don´t you think?

Marta P. - 5º C dijo...

It's a pity that the new people who Pip meets are such a weird woman as Miss Havisham is and so a selfish and proud girl as Estella is. Chapter nine is about telling lies and starting changes. Pip alters facts as a way of protect himself from being misunderstood and he plays his cards because, what had happened if Mr. Publechook did know how Miss Havisham was? Now, not only he's more important in his reduced circle of acquaintances but he has felt the necessity of changing to not to be common anymore.

Fernando 5º C dijo...

Well Carmen , again i have to disagree with you in your quote about "can men hurt us to that point?" you´d better think why i don´t overcome this suffering by accepting the new situation and move forward taking advantage of the lessons learned? Why we always look the reason of our problems outside of us? instead of looking inside and be more practical accepting that life is unpredictable and sometimes you will win and sometimes you will lose.
referring to chapter nine, i want to point out the lesson that an illiterate person "joe" gives pip about life.

Laura C. Group 5_C dijo...

Poor Pip, his convict has appeared again! I am almost sure that Pip, with his first gaze, could recognize him. The convict has changed from the last day he saw him but children are very perceptive and he needn’t see Joe´s file to know his nightmare has come back.

Laura de Arriba dijo...

In relation to what Carmen said about accepting our father’s faults, I only want to make reference to what Oscar Wilde wrote about it in The Portrait of Dorian Gray “children begin by loving their parents. After a time they judge them. Rarely, if ever, do they forgive them”. I utterly agree with Carmen about the sort of person Joe is. He has remained ingenuous as a child, he is naïve, because, otherwise, if he was bright or smart enough, he would realize the harm his father inflicted on his family.
And talking about harm, it seems as though Miss Havisham had been hurt very badly in her youth. She has tried to stop the time in a particular point: twenty minutes to nine. But, however hard she tried, Time never stops. Everything, even against her most stubborn will, has withered: her once-white bridal dress, now yellowish, her body, her voice. The reader breaths the air of that bleak, gloomy, and forlorn atmosphere in which Pip is thrust to play with a girl that opens his eyes to new discoveries about himself.

Marta P. - 5ºC dijo...

Yesterday we focused on talking about the new character who has appeared in the novel, the man who knows Pip's convict (there is the detail of the file as a message for him) but did we enjoy with the descripticon of the course at Mr. Wopsle's great-aunt's? It is really funny, isn't it? Such an accurate description of children reading without understanding nothing at all, the monotony in their voices, the old woman sleeping, Biddy being the teacher... makes us witnesses of the situation as if we had seen it trhough a keylock. What an idea has illuminated Pip's mind to ask Biddy (who knows a little bit more than Pip) to illustrate him!

Carmen dijo...

Waow! a few more comments on the blog, good. Marta, Pip meets a weird lady, but how many weird people are out and about and yeet we are not aware that they are so? can you give us a real example of such a woman as Miss Havisham? there must be some around. Certainly I know several that have been unable to move on when their properous future turned out to be a failure...

Carmen dijo...

Fernando,
"are men bad?
Yes, all of them" (Oscar Wilde)
I don´t know why you don´t move on but I´m sure it is not because of a lady....
What a lesson from the good-hearted, good Joe...I wish I were as good as Joe is, at the prize of other things, goodness is what matters, really....I wonder, are you good...?

Laura de Arriba dijo...

I have found chapter nine superb. After reading it, I have realized that, perhaps, I have underestimated Joe when I thought about him as a naïve, simple, ingenuous person. Definitely he is smarter than his wife, always yelling at Pip, bringing him up with rudeness and punishments. Kind as Joe always is towards Pip, he is determining about Pip’s lies and he made some quite remarkable observations that encourage Pip.
And, at the end of the chapter, Dickens made an awesome reflection about how, in the middle of an endless series of monotonous days, one selected moment could change the course of our lives.

Carmen dijo...

Laura, what a good quote, yes for most people it is hard to forgive parents...being a moter myself....I tremble!! as to my own parents, good as they have been in many issues I have to admit that some of the things they have done to me have been uuuuunnnnnnnffffoooorrrrrrrrrrgggggggggiiiiiiiiivvvvvvvvvvvaaaaabble!!!I hope you don´t think I´m horrible, folks, I´m sure their intention was good, but, good God!, I´ll leave it at that, and mind that there has been nothing sinful in it, just small things. Only children, young forgive without blinking, unfortunately I´m not a child any moore, and I´m not that good!!! However we should try to imitate Joe and find the suitable excuses.
I admire Joe very much, his simplicity and kindness is an example for us in our many small or big trails.
do you like this novel better than little Dorrit, Laura? How is my dear England? London? Been to the theatre?

Carmen dijo...

Laura C. The man with the file is not the convict, but I´m sure he HAS SEEN him....

Carmen dijo...

Marta, Pip wants to better himself, to improve, and he realizes that education is what makes the difference!!! What is money without education? What is money with pride? The chapter is very funny, I have never fallen asleep in front of the students, but I had a teacher who slept a siesta in front of me practically everyday. Folks, what would you do if I fell asleep? I have a good mind to do it one day!!!

Laura de Arriba dijo...

Yes, Carmen, I do like more Great Expectations than Little Dorrit, at least so far. And this is because of the main character, Pip. He is definitely funnier and far more believable than our dear Amy who was too much mature, well-behaved and saintlike to be a child! I do not know, but maybe, they are novels that belong to two quite different periods in Dickens’ literary career. We must ask our lecturer at the end of the year... if he comes.

Carmen dijo...

Pip is definetly a very well-constructed character.

Fernando 5º C dijo...

I have to confess that this Estella is making me crazy, what intentions does she have about Pip? is she beginning to like pip, or she is only joking with him?
Women are impredictable and curious human beings, which will be her next wretched step...

María del Campo 5ºC dijo...

I admire Pip because he knows nothing but wants to know everything, he wants to be educated and tries to follow someone to teach him so he thinks about Biddy,that is the only person who Pip trust. I believe that Pip wants to improve because he likes Estella very much and now he is ashamed of himself.

maria dijo...

Maria, I agree with you that Pip wants to better himself mainly because of Estella. Then there are some other reasons, but I agree that the main one is Estella! Some women are just so powerful, or some men are just so blind and silly! They just cannot help it, you know? They are alienated... and forget about everything else..., friends included! However, Pip has something good, which is his willingness to change -for a woman for whatever reason, but he wants to change. He makes mistakes on his way, but his intention is originally healthy...
Fernando I am sure you would agree that women are misteriously impredictable as well as men are openly simple...
Anyway, I just popped in -propmted by Carmen- to post the link of the most wonderful English series on television there is nowadays: Downton Abbey http://www.itv.com/itvplayer/video/?Filter=327244
Unfortunately, on that link you can only see the last three episodes of the third season, as they remove the videos after two or three weeks! However, I am certain there must be another web site where you could watch online the series. If I happen to find the web site soon I shall post it here.
And Carmen, do not fall asleep in class, just in case somebody steals tus apuntes del subjuntivo, such a precious thing!

Carmen dijo...

Fernando, Estella is beeing educated to become a hard women whose objective in life will be to "break men´s hearts", if I were you I would not like to mmet her in real life...have you ever met her?

Carmen dijo...

María, I totally agree with you. Pip has a need to improve, to better himself because he has seen what he did not suspect existed, another world, more refined, than his own.

Carmen dijo...

María, thanks for the link and for the post. I have particularly liked:
"Fernando I am sure you would agree that women are misteriously impredictable as well as men are openly simple..."
Great. Very well written and expressed....

Carmen dijo...

5 A, I just wanted to say, that my dinner-party went off with flying colours and my nails shone brightly (no smudges) in the lighted dining-room....

Laura C. Group 5_C dijo...

I dont think Pip wants to change only because of Estella, of course she is really important in his life, but I think he has realized that there are a different world, and better than his for discovering. Probably, when he was a child be an apprentice in Joe´s forge were his dream or at least enough for him but now than he is older he feels that the forge is not his place.

silvestre. dijo...

3rd time i try to post a comment!!!

silvestre. dijo...

finaly!!! i think pip is a great character, i like joe too and hate his sister. so far the reading is becoming more and more pleasant the better i understand the subjunctive!

Carmen dijo...

laura, I totally agree with you in that Pip doesn¨t have a hope to marry Estella, therefore he would ot want to better himself for this sake, but let us admit, too that it is because he visits Satis house and he meets, and hears (do not forget he notices the nice accent) that he wants to change!! It is sad that once you know the "better" you despise what you appreciated before. This feeling results in the distance that develops between him and Joe...sad as it is, it is however so common...which one of you would go back to no knowing the subjunctive, who would not continue reading?

Carmen dijo...

Silvester, hi, there, good that you managed to post it!!! So glad that you are kind of managing with the subjunctive, and enjoying the book..you are good, so you will profit a lot this year.

By the way, I had a drink in the terrace you told me, 5 A, I liked it a lot, beautiful, expensive, I have to admit, but worthwhile..thanks for the tip

Carmen dijo...

http://www.beismagazine.com/ this is the link to the magazine that has been launchd by one of my pupils. Have a look...she currently translates all the information about art that appears internationally, mostly in English, into Spanish to publish it in the magazine....She uses both languages, look how far she´s got....she learnt English in those classrooms where you are now seated, and then went to live in England. have a look and tell me where in the magazine do you see that she has preceded you in the English "field"?

Anónimo dijo...

Anonimo

Hello.
I would like to say, why in one class of Advanced 2 we are not doing this fantastic exercise in our class.
We are not reading the book of Great expectations yet...and It is November!!
I think this could fantastic for us to writte here everyweek...
Regards

Miguel 5C dijo...

Maria, congratulations for your website! It's very nice the paralelism that you do between Jane Eyre's heroism and those from artists. Indeed, I admire you so that you are very brave for start this kind of magazine nowadays. Thanks also for your Downton Abbey's link...I hope to have a little time to enjoy it, perhaps in summer.

Africa 5ºA dijo...

Hi everybody, fortunately I am here afresh. My computer problems have been fixed (or I hope so). Only two words today for you Carmen, first of all, I am really glad that your party were a success and your nails also... Secondly, please don't you sleep in class never and ever!!! you have a lot of things to teach us. And finally, I have taken a look at the magazine and of course I am sure that is about Jane Eyre we can guess that Maria has learned English with you!!. Tomorrow I will write about the book,now, I am in a hurry

Carmen dijo...

Thanks, anonimo!!! I don´t know why you haven´t started!!! tel your teacher to begin the novel,
5A and 5C have already started and we are currently doing chapter 13, get reading and join us!!

Carmen dijo...

Miguel, Africa, well done, it is indeed Jane Eyre, why I wanted you to read it is so that you were aware that for one of my ppils reading a novel in English was importat, so important that what she learnt from that reading, has in a way influenced her, and her future, and something of what she is now doing, she has done because she profitted from that reading and from her English. Needless to say that most of her reading on modern art will be done in English!!

Carmen dijo...

Africa, I hope that all of you, and you in particular, learn a lot this year. Some of you I can see are really interested in improving and speaking English well, I will certainly be wide awake to help...God willing!

María dijo...

Carmen, thank you for asking your pupils to visit the webpage and for your nice words about me... Miguel and Africa, thank you for listening to Carmen and visiting it and reading my letter! Jane Eyre is a wonderful novel that, as Carmen said, has influenced -is influencing- me a lot. Once I even thought I was Jane Eyre herself! Now, I see her with a bit of detachtment...; for good or ill, I am not like her after all..., though we have certainly some things in common...
Anyway, thank you again, it is very encouraging to read your comments so as to keep going... You keep going too with your English. Everything I am doing now is thanks to what I learnt with Carmen. She is the best, do not forget that, and always listen to her because... she is always right, I am well aware of it!

María del Campo 5º C dijo...

Please can anybody help me to look the page that Carmen told us because when I mark it, there are a lot of them and I don´t know what I have to choose, I need more datas in order to can find it. Thanks a lot.

Africa 5ºA dijo...

Maria,it is with pleasure and a slight pinch of envy (in the good sense)that I see your great work. Keep going doing all that your spirit (or Jane Eyre) lead you. And thanks of your advice about learning English with Carmen, all of us (at least me)knew since the very first moment we met her that she were so special. I will continue visiting your magazine. Best wishes.

Africa 5ºA dijo...

And about the novel I would want to say that like in Jane Eyre we wanted to catch some of her strenght and their motivations, in Great Expectations we want to be like Joe. At least I would like being as good natured as him and above all, being good without conditions, without asking nothing in change. But unfortunately there is nobody upon Earth like Joe is, on the contrary is like we were involved in a kind of competition whose winner were the most wretched human being, and whose prize is to be the most admired, famous, and imitated.
Sorry about that pesimistic disgregation, but although bring it to the extrem is something true.

Africa 5ºA dijo...

And finally, sufferer fellows. What can we say about the way that Joe tells his wife those lies about the words of Miss Havisham adressed to her,in order to please her? And Pip being his accomplice? It is a very weird relationship. I understand Pip when he feels a very bad person to feel ashamed by Joe. He should be must feel worst if it be posssible, poor Joe.

Fernando 5º C dijo...

Dear María del Campo, you have to enter where "carta a la directora" is written, ;-) , Maria, referring to your article, i have to say that not being very bound to artistic things, i was very glad to remind Jane Eyre for it was for me the first book reading in EOI, very well translated , and very good work, congratulations.
Concerning to the book, as I am reading the novel i am most tided to the role pip is going to have in life, so as I am looking forward to what is going to happen next, hehe.

maria dijo...

http://watchseries.eu/serie/downton_abbey
You can find several links to see the three seasons of Downton Abbey!

Thanks Fernando!! You may be bound to "artistic things" from now on, given that you are reading Great Expectations and enjoying it! That is a masterpiece!

By the way, another film of Great Expectations will be released on 30th December in London! I will tell you about it.

Mónica Cagiao dijo...

I´ve been sent a couple of links to see downton abbey, but I couldn´t manage to watch them here! I´m not pacient,so I finally decided to buy the dvd in a second hand shop, as its worth having the serie to see it as many times as I want!!

http://forum.tvfreeload.org/tvfl_index.php?type=tv-shows&letter=t

There you have another link to add subtitles to the series, should you want them...

http://www.tvsubtitles.net/subtitle-159041.html

And I enclose as well another link
http://watchseries.eu/serie/downton_abbey

Enjoy it!!

Mónica Cagiao dijo...


Africa I agree with you, Joe Gargery is so extraordinary a character that I think all of us love him! He is pacient with his wife, funny and faithful towards Pip and, what´s more, he always shows a willingness to help Pip in whatever circumstance!
That´s why I don´t like Pip´s attitude towards Joe. He can look for another life, but it doesn´t mean feeling unconfortable with the people who have brought you (by hand or not...)in such a kindness and goodwill manner.
For instance, there is a very big difference between Jane Eyre and Pip´s childhood. In the first one, the family being wealthy we can see disdain and lack of love, whereas in the second one we have a family who loves him, but has no luxuries.
Jane Eyre took her decision based on looking for being beloved, will Pip escape from love to look for wealthy future?
Were I Pip, I should tried to improve my status in life without loosing my background.

Laura C. Group 5_C dijo...

Hi everybody!

First I want to thanks for the link of Downtown Abbey I have just checked it and works perfect!! Evening tv is horrible so really thank you.

I would like to congratulate to Mary I know that start a new project it is very difficult but exciting as well, Good luck!! I


But I think we find funny to Joe because he is a very simple person who says exactly what he thinks and due his ignorance sometimes he says or creates some situation with no sense, but is he funny? I don´t think so, I think we laugh of him.

Carmen dijo...

María, thanks for your kind words to me, you always praise me so... I very much appreciate it! Having received more critics (always) than praise (rarely) to have someone at the other end of the line, be where you be (subjunctive, 5ths!, with nice words boosts up my spirit...and my day!
Now it is my turn to congratulate you on all your achievements. Remember when we met in London years ago, you, a Jane then, all smiles, all ears, over a few white wines and one or two gin´tonics and you now, walking up and down London, Gallery-visiting, theatre-going, shopping-bag dangling from your shoulder, full of art magazines...and maybe nail varnish,black fashion sunglasses protecting your eyes from a hesitant sun,high heels, rushing down Bond Street, a Londoner, in short, mixing with them (the English), admired, respected,self-confident, singing away in Budapest, skiing in USA.......yes, you are right, Jane has been left somewhat behind....

Carmen dijo...

Africa, for noticing that I was... as Antonio Carnero, a very beloved student, who left us four years ago and who will, undoubtedly, be reading this from high distant places,said about me "Carmen, Carmen es...otra cosa".
We do like Joe, but then, we should notice that what we like of Joe, would not make him popular in real life, don´t you think? He is too simple, too good, too generous, too hardworking and above all, a person who does not want, or need to shine, to be obvious.
Look around you...how many like like to be important, how many people crack the inadequate joke, to make themselves noticeable??? Joe is happy with simple things, his pipe after his frugal dinner and his rocking chair, he cannot enjoy a ggod book as he cannot read, but a simple life is enough for him. let us compare him with people like politicians? Mas, why can´t he go home and enjoy the money he presumably has? La Botella? Why into politics when her husband leaves? Why not stay at home, collaborate with NGOs and play bridge? or enjoy a good book and watching a film?
unfortunately we are little like Joe and waste our lives thinking that being in that fashion bar, or any bar, for that matter (I would perhaps fit that group) sipping a gin´tonic was bliss, forgetting that a life consisting of doing what we should do (as Joe does, sticking with mrs. Joe...who would not leave her now????)ought to be enough..?

Carmen dijo...

Monica, a very good post, your English, much improved, no mistakes, weight in the composition of sentences, well-balanced, your thoughts flowing along...
Pip is human. He is ashamed of Joe, but where we would keep our thoughts to ourselves, Pip feels the necessity of confessing his to an everlasting throng of readers, to be despised, scorned...
I would like to point out that Jane as a little girl, ill treated as she was at Gateshead, however doesn´t like the idea of being poor, and thus chooses to be educated and go to school when applied by the apothecary as to her future. she also knew what the difference was, or would be if she were educated, and rejects the idea of going to live with poor relations, just in case she becomes...vulgar.
We don´t value, currently our education and we have our teenagers complaining of school and our adults (you, folks) not putting enough work into your English so as to learn...how many of you sign up for the EOI and then just sit theere little thinking about studying? Effort, seems to be a word unexistant nowadays, in developed countries, it is easier to complain and give up. It is onl when our circumstances are hard, that we make the effort, otherwise spirits and drugs seem to be what lots of people go for...

Carmen dijo...

Africa, THANKS, I forgot that, at the beginning of my post to you.

Carmen dijo...

Lancelot, so happy G E is interesting you? any characteristics of Pip in you? none of Joe´s, I can´t see you putting up with a lady like Mrs. Joe...

Carmen dijo...

Laura, we smile at Joe, don´t you think that that is what we do? However, I don´t think that Joe is such a fool, he certainly knows how to treat Mrs. Joe and he can be sly to proect him and Pip from her.
In his conversation with Pip about himself he has made a choice in life, he decided not to be like his father..and acted accordingly, at whatever the cost,he is brave, too. and he doesn´t make mistakes, unlike clever experienced Mr. Rochester, whose desire for fun and for being accepted, leads him astray. Rochester is complexed, rich though he is, Joe is not.

Carmen dijo...

Monica and maría, thanks for your posts, Im certainly going to use them ...now

Fernando 5º C dijo...

Dear and beloved Carmen, i am not such a fool as you think, hehe, of course I am interested in all the books that i have read in EOI(little Dorrit, Jane Eyre and Great E.). Concerning to what i have from pip or joe and my opinion about both of them, i would say that I prefer my being more like pip than joe, joe can be a good example of my father´s life he has always been happy with his humble life, althoug i am not fond of this kinf of life , i respect his decition. Having such a woman so bad demanding or tough as Miss Gargery putting up with me would lead us quarreling all over the day, i would rather a woman who i can argue with without quarreling, i don´t mind her having a strong character or personality at all, but i am against stubbornness , regardless being a bit myself ;-). Love make us blind and better person, improving our behaves and recovering our spirits, don´t you think? this is very related to the question why joe can put up with his wife.

Fernando 5º C dijo...

Wow, how can i erase this comment? sorry for all the mistakes made, it is due to the problem of writing without thinking before, not realizing in being accurate instead of expressing my opinion, i don´t write such bad as in this occasion. So as to take advantage of my second comment, i will try to do better. I like from Pip his wishes for improving cultural and socially, his desires of doing always what his heart and head mutually agree, moreover, i like the effort with which he tries of teaching Joe in order to get him a better educated person. I like from Joe, his patient, his common sense , his way of handling all his sittuations with Mrs Gargery, And the how he take care of pip. I don´t know if i have answer you with your doubt... Let´s see what we discuss today, hehe.

María del Campo 5ºC dijo...

Hi Fernando thanks for your help.
I believe that Pip is sad because he has realised about what he feels toward Joe and this sensation is new for him. Besides he had never felt ashamed of Joe till he has known Estella but he has not avoid his beavior though he likes to confess Joe what he has feeling at that time.

maria dijo...

You make me blush... Thanks Carmen, you are too nice... I am a different person from the one I was before I came to London, I am aware of that. And even though you may say I did it, I did it thanks to you. You may say I "made the most of it" or that I "seized the opportunity", which I admit, but the opportunity was given to me BY YOU. So I thank you and will thank you forever; for that and for always being at the other end of the line too...

Thank you Laura for congratulating me... Let's see if I do succeed... I'm trying my best!

Study guys, you'll be glad you did. Make the most of it, you'll find no teacher -nor person- like her!

And, after all the lovey-dovey, I say night night to you all

silvestre. dijo...

hi there.
thanks carmen for having such opinion of me.
i'm only "trying" to improve my english through your knowledgable classes! i know i have to study a lot to profit more than expected.
i hated forgetting last night's downton abbey 1st episode of its 3rd season. i hope i can find the means to watch it.
have a good weekend you all.
p.s: i can't recall the terrace you mentioned i recommended to you! my alzheimer is improving!

Carmen dijo...

Lancelot, I don´t think you are a fool at all!!! I do have an idea about you but it is not connected to that, I´ll say that you are more on the ladies´line, rather than the foolery line.
yes, your second post is better written, keep posting, the more you post the better you will do.
You describe Joe accuratelly and find something positive in Pip, I have to admit that Pip appears to me to be ungrateful and this is a sad thing to be, don´t you think?

Carmen dijo...

María, you hit the nail on the head, Pip´s new feelings spring from this admiration he feels for Estella, and the act that she spites him. "he´s a common labouring boy", how horrible! Shold anyone say that of me i would not like to mix with him, but perhaps it works the other way round, that you admire he who is nasty to you more. What do you think?

Carmen dijo...

María, you exagerate, Folks, do not believe her at all!!!!
What did I say that was not true? think about your current position in your job, the rest..well, send us a photo of you in London...
As to me, I gave you the opportunity, but you made the most of it, other people in your place are not, have not done the same.
Having said this..................
thanks!

Carmen dijo...

Silvester, no thanks, you are good at English, now you have to make the effort and learn lots more, and sit the proficiency....the terrace is in Cibeles, the "late" Post Office", not sure if it the Town Hall now, I believe it is bease the government of madrid is in Sol? perhaps it wasn´t you who recommended it!!

María dijo...

I never exaggerate!

Having said this.............. Thanks!

María del Campo 5º C dijo...

I don´t know if I understand what do you mean, but I believe that it could be one incentive that helps Pip to improve, due to he feels rejected by Estella but at that point, if he improve himself, he will get Estella´s love.

Laura C: Group 5_C dijo...

In the last chapter I have discovered Biddy!! She is getting a close friend of Pip but she is more mature and down-to-earth than him. I would like to copy what she answered to Pip when he tells her that he wants to be a gentleman, because I think it’s a great answer and an intelligent advice (not only for Pip). Do you want to be a gentleman, to spite her or to gain her over? Because if it is to spite her I should think that might be better and more independently done by caring nothing for her word. And if its to gain her over, she was not worth gaining over. Undoubtedly women are more mature and sensible that man, at least in the adolescence.

Marta P - 5ºC dijo...

Laura, I agree with you, what a sharp question Biddy has put to Pip. Definitely, Pip has experienced a change in his mind, his heart and feelings, he will not ever be the same person once he has realized he is ashamed by his house and being common but his effort to be uncommon is remarkable and admirable.
And I really understand Pip, as I have felt embarrased by certain familiar and close situations too, and I think all of us have felt this. Not only I do not despise Pip I admire his maturity and intelligence in accepting the facts as they are but keeping fighting to scape from it.


Regarding to another question discussed in the blog, Carmen, I agree with you in that really wanting to learn is a weird attitude nowadays as, in the case of learning english, it implies, at least in my case, expending hours during weekends to do the workbook exercises, downloading podcasts, listening to the audiobook of the novel, producing the composition... let's admit it, doing all what you say that we have to do to really learn and improve our skills in english can be exhausted!

María dijo...

The new adaptation of Great Expectations fulfilled my expectations, more than Lean´s adaptation released in the forties, but less than the BBC´s last year.

It is difficult to review it without spoiling the plot…, I´ll be careful. The acting is outstanding, highlighting Helena B-C as Ms Havisham – her bitchy advise from her wheelchair: "love her, love her, love her", or "break his heart"-, something Flemyng, I believe, as Joe -"what larks", "ever the best of friends", so sweet and charming poor old chap-, and Ralph Fiennes as Magwitch.

Yet I missed some parts, some characters, some quotes. There was a particular scene I disliked very much, a conversation between Ms Havisham and Estella, very different from the one in the book. However, all in all, I liked it. It managed to transmit the feelings and the gloom of an eternally relevant –my most loved- story.

María dijo...

Marta P, Carmen is right indeed that most people do not want to learn. What about all the young people in Spain who are unemployed and stay in Spain, complaining, demonstrating, but doing, really, nothing to... "improve themselves"? One has to be a bit adventurous sometimes. It is always nice and easy to stay. Leaving the comfort is a pain, of course. But then, why complain? All is about having an objective and trying one´s best to achieve it. All one needs in order to achieve one´s goals is to make an effort and persevere. Learning English -as anything else- involves an effort and perseverance, which is not easy, you say "exhausting", but if you really want to learn it, you must go to the very end of the way, to the very end of the adventure!

Marta P - 5º C dijo...

What a encouraging words! Thanks Maria.

silvestre. dijo...

thanks anyway.
i'll be going away on the 15-12 so i won't be able to attend classes. is there another writing to hand in before that date? to know the topic so i can start working on it!
thanks

Africa 5ºA dijo...

I do not know what is happening with my comments. I am writing three posts and they do not appear!!

Africa 5ºA dijo...

Sorry, I HAVE BEEN WRITING (a great mistake).

Africa 5ºA dijo...

Well, it appears that my problem with the blog has been solved
Maria, what envy you have me done reading your “review” about the new adaptation of Great Expectations, I hope to see it when I finish the novel. And I also would like to say that I totally agree with you and with Carmen concerning at the low effort that people do about their knowledge. Their willing is so slightly... we could suppose that they think the effort is not necessary and all of the things that they need, they could achieve it by chance or whatever but never with effort. It is our "legacy" (well, "modern" parent's legacy). Unfortunately, I know a lot of people who says me:”Oh, you speak English..I wish I were able to speak it too”....but, in fact, they do not do anything to learn it!!
In any case, I have to continue doing great efforts to learn English and to improve it; because I need so much to improve... Fortunately, I have my whole life ahead of me to do it., and following Maria’s advice: “I am going to go to the end of the path”

Fernando 5º C dijo...

Sorry Carmen for having been so late in answering you, I am trying to post the most that I can, I am likely to improve faster if I do some effort, ;-). I didn´t understand completely your comment about being "in the lady´s line" are you suggesting that I am very much interested in Ladys or that i Think similar to them , ;-), anyway, talking about Pip, as far as i am concerned pip is learning in life and there are things he will have to overcome if he wants to improve in society, and regardless of having a special care for Joe, he have to make a step forward in order to get what he wants.
And updating with the current chapter we are dealing, i dare to say that the novel is making me crazy with the happening event ocurred to Mrs Joe, who could be the assailant?

Laura C: Group 5_C dijo...

Pip is certain to be unhappy if he doesn´t overcome his insecurities. He should enjoy whatever he has, a family that cares him, a trade to learn and a new friend: Biddy.
I think however, Pip´s attitude is understandable, it´s indeed in human nature to want whatever we don’t have.

Laura C: Group 5_C dijo...

Pip is certain to be unhappy if he doesn´t overcome his insecurities. He should enjoy whatever he has, a family that cares him, a trade to learn and a new friend: Biddy.
I think however, Pip´s attitude is understandable, it´s indeed in human nature to want whatever we don’t have.

Laura C: Group 5_C dijo...

Sorry, I don´t know why my comment is twice.

María del Campo 5º C dijo...

I am going to write about Mrs. Joe and I believe that a woman does not have to interfere with the work of her husband, especially when he is addressing one of its employees. Something very differente is that when they are at home, then she can say anything to her husband but, never in front of the person who complain about the work. Nevertheless this may be unavoidable, to interfere even knowing the risk this intervention would have, as in this case happened to Mrs. Joe.

Mónica Cagiao dijo...

I haven't seen BBC's film, but I saw the new one and I love it! More than the old one I saw last year... It's more loyal to the book than the other one. Good as these actors are I should want to point out Estella whose character is not as rough as in the other film.

Laura C: Group 5_C dijo...

Yes, I agree with you Maria. Mrs Joe should have been more prudent speaking to Joe... but it was not easy for her to control her temper… Now that her character is softer I hope she shoul be warmer with Pip because it could help him to be more confident.

Anónimo dijo...

Sorry, Carmen. I couldn´t answer you before .
I read a short edition od David Copperfield many years ago. I think both Pip and David had difficulties in their chilhood, they had happy and sad situations ,they grew up without parents but they grew up with his relatives David with hisstepfather and then with Pegoty´s brother .They went to Londonto work . They meet a girl of their dreams and they marryed her. They discovered a secret. And at the end they found complete happiness.In both there is the story of a boy growing up and their dreams for the future.
Both had funny and sad moments
Belén 5 .D

Carmen dijo...

Laura, I also noticed that comment of Biddy´s. We tend to care too much for the opinion of those who are underserving of ou care. I think I´m going to try and memorize those thoughts and use them in my personal life..

Carmen dijo...

Marta, it may be exhausting, no doubt it is, but how much have you learnt since you entered the Eoi? just look back and see how much you have improved, how confident you are in the use of English, now!!! as María says you have entered the "adventure" and are now nearing its end...
María has experimented how many of her friends or acquaintances did not have the guts or the wish the impulse to learn English and thus did not. o no leave half way, complete the adventure.

Carmen dijo...

Silvester, I forgot to give the new compositon, so this is the title of your next composition

"Pip's early life is influenced by several characters. Some of these influences affected Pip in a positive way; others were negative. Write an essay analyzing the characters who played an important role in Pip's life both in a positive and negative way."

Carmen dijo...

Lacelot, you like ladies, that is what I meant.
what puzzles me about mrs. Jpoe is that she identfies or points at Orlick in what appears to be an accusation and then is pleased to be with him....could it be that he helped her? who attacked her then?

Carmen dijo...

africa, You are going to improve a lot, I´m certain, why? because you want to ad that strength is what will enable you to improve...if you manage to solve your "posting" efforts....

Carmen dijo...

María, the problem is that women interfere..we do, we have been the cause of our men´s ruin, Cleopatra caused Anthony´s ruin and his despicability, and that to mention one heroic figure, there have been lots of "rodriguez´s who, through their wife´s ambition and ill-timed comments have ruined their professions.

Carmen dijo...

Biddy, poor, good-natured, helpful, generous, the female joe, but more educated and susceptible of being admired by Pip...but she does not have the negativity Pip has, she has no shame of her origins..

Carmen dijo...

Monica, I think Estella ha to be hateful, cold and haughty, if she is not like that it cannot be a good cast.

Carmen dijo...

Belen, there is absolutely no conection between Pip and David!!!you cannot analize a character by just reading an abridged edition of the novel.
The comaprison of their lives is totally inexact!!! David never live with Pegotty´s brother, Pip is never forced to work, and does not work in London as a child, he never experienced prison and he was loved at home, by Joe, and even Mrs. Joe cared for him, I don´t think she loved anyone. David was a martyr at home...well, read both noels and then come and read your post...

aleceia dijo...

Hi, mates.I'm enjoying the novel a lot but It's much more difficult that I thought. Anyway, about Pip, he's suffering a crude adolescence. He feels disoriented because his social class doesn't measure his aspirations,that joined to the uncertainty about Stella...He is only surviving and waiting for something happens.
Alicia, 5º C

Fernando 5º C dijo...

Of course Carmen, i like women, but I dare to say that you like men, don´t you? ;-) But i preffer not going on with this issue, in order to write about other things, i don´t want to change your oppinion about me, it has nothing to do to my concern.
Reffering to chapter 17th it is really interesting how the events are succeding between Biddy and pip, I wish Pip would fall in love with Biddy if that is not the case, he will probably get into trouble and suffering trying to gain Estlla over, don´t you think?
last but not least, I agree with Laura in her opinion about Mrs joe and i will permit me to say to Marta that what is really important is the effort you are doing to improve and not being worried if you finish the whole tasks on time, ;-)
Best wishes to all if i can´t write more before christmas.

silvestre. dijo...

hi there!
carmen that essay is going to take lots of thinking before i can pen it down! and i only got 48 hours! that topic would have been better as a christmas homework!but anyway that's the one, no more to be said.
i hope there won't be any homework for the holidays,will it? there's an interview of the last director of great expectations new version on bbc.com/hardtalk that i found interesting! "downton" was great,especially,as usual, miss smith! she gets the best lines! i guess because of her stature as an actor among the rest of the cast.no one would do it better than her!
cheers.

Laura C. Group 5_C dijo...

Is going to Pip get his dream of having a different life? I think he is going to. But I am not really sure if it is going to be as easy as it sounds. In the end of the chapter he realizes that changes sometimes are not easy, he must leave Joe, who is his best friend, Biddy, his house, his town… in other words… all his life!!!

I would like to emphasize Joe´s dignity. He didn’t accept any money from the strange man even when this man insists him at least twice. I think if he had accepted the money he would have felt a treacherous of his principles, he only wants Pip to be happy. Nowadays it´s not easy find someone as honest as Joe.

Carmen dijo...

Alicia, but don´t you think he is trying to become more of a gnetleman? he is doing sth, at least he is learning sth. It is only the people who cannot be educated that value education, we tke it for granted.
I´m glad you are enjoying the novel and don´t worry about not understanding everything, you are reading Dickens and in English that is wuiet an achievement in itself

Carmen dijo...

Lancelot, I think that I tolerate men...as to liking them...however, let me tell you that I much prefer the company of men to that of women..at a party women alone bore me to death....men are more interesting to....crush.
As to Pip and bidddy...I doubt it, when you want to have the best second best won´t do, don´t you think?
As to improving or trying to, that is superb, but trying has to be a serious effort, not just words.
I´ve tried your...delicious, thanks, bit pissed (reading this again it "reads" awful, I wonder what the rest will make oout of it, but you understand me, don´t you)

Carmen dijo...

Silvester, we have been doing a lot of thinking about Pip, whether we are aware of it or not. it is a question of organising our thoughts.
Anyway you are very able...in this field, others I don´t know you well enough but you appear to me to be a man, not a silly "boy".
Donwton is superb, and things happen, too which is interesting, because it resembles lif, where things happen, too. and then it is so well done that one believes it is real!!

Carmen dijo...

Joe is study of coherence and generosity, indeed, Laura

aleceia dijo...
Este comentario ha sido eliminado por el autor.
aleceia dijo...

Yes,Carmen, perhaps Pip is doing something, but I thought the same last year about Walter. Walter and Pip aren't men of action in the first parts of their stories. They are more observers than protagonists. Pip is growing as a person, thinking about all his possibilities_Biddy, Stella, the forge..._and waiting for his chance.

Laura C. group 5_C dijo...

It´s funny (or dramatic) how money changes people´s attitude. Mr. Pumblechoock changes totally his attitude to pip, he had never paid any attention to him because he was only a humble child who was apprentice in a forge. But now that Pip´s life is going to improve Mr. Pumblechhock tries to be closer to him and adulates Pip in many ocassions. On the other hand Pip behaves and speaks sometimes in a boaster and proud way due to his new position.
Money is very dangerous.

María del -c dijo...

Money changes everything, money has power and we can see it in the merchants because from the outset, when Pip mentions his new situations, they change inmediately, concentrating their mind on Pip.

María del -c dijo...

Money changes everything, money has power and we can see it in the merchants because from the outset, when Pip mentions his new situations, they change inmediately, concentrating their mind on Pip.

María del -c dijo...

Money changes everything, money has power and we can see it in the merchants because from the outset, when Pip mentions his new situations, they change inmediately, concentrating their mind on Pip.

María del Campo 5ºC dijo...

I have written the previos summary but I was not able to write mi name so I´ll tray it again.

Laura C. group 5_C dijo...

Yes, I agree. Money is so powerful that changes people. It is funny in the novel when Pip goes to the tailor shop and the tailor, Mr Trabb, stops taking his breakfast, "he forgot the butter in bed" when Pip says that he is going to pay with ready money and show him some guineas. In that moment Mr. Trabb orders the young boy who works with him to bring expensive rolls cloth.

Fernando 5º C dijo...

Hahaha, i don´t know whether to cry or to laugh with your comments about men, you tolerate us? let me tell you one thing, maybe you have not found any at your level, haven´t, you? ;-)
referring to the second dish, I only have a first dish, because I respect woman integrity and i show my chose clearly without letting her to have a misunderstanding.
And yes, i have smiled when i have seen that you tasted my..., how funny you are, ;-)

Isabel dijo...

Hi Carmen: I am Isabel, 5º-A. I have sent the chapters to my classmate; I have seen that you have forgotten to Sonia and, as the last chapter was free I assigned it to her; is OK?

Isabel dijo...

I have read the blog, especially some comments of my classmate of 5ºA; I will try to get more time to write about Pip and his unbearable sister. Thaks for all.

María del Campo 5ºC dijo...

Happy New Year all of you. I´ll see you soon.

María del Campo 5ºC dijo...

Hi, I am thinking that now that Pip is starting a new lifestyle I wonder what will be his behavior from now. I suppose he will be fine but I also believe that, this stroke of luck and the money, may influence in his life, though I hope, it be in a positive way. What do yo think about?

Laura C. Group 5_C dijo...

Poor Pip! I am sure he never expected arrived at a poor and dirty inn in London. I like the description of the square where the inn is, he says that has the most dismal trees, the most dismal sparrows, the most dismal cats and the most dismal houses he have ever seen, how gloomy should be the square!. It is not the dreamed beginning by him so I hope everything changes.

Laura C. Group 5_C dijo...

Sorry! I wanted to write: "he has ever seen".

Fernando 5º C dijo...

We can see in this descriptive chapter how pip hesitates about his great expectations, the picture of London he has found at his first glance, dissapoints him a bit, even he describes London as an overrated city. The encounter between that former pale young gentleman he met at miss Havisham´s and him makes me eager to read the next chapter, ;-)

Fernando 5º C dijo...

And Carmen please ,don´t tell us off for not writting on the post, we are waiting for you to answer our posts for a while ;-). Happy new year to all of you.

Laura C. Group 5_C dijo...

Finally we have known Miss Havisham´s past. Hebert doesn´t know all the details but he tells enough to support the idea that she was betrayed by her step brother and her fiancée. She was advised by her cousin (Herbert´s father) but she couldn´t see the reality and got upset with him. Sometimes love doesn´t let think properly and see what everybody sees.

Laura C. Group 5_C dijo...

Sorry,I wanted to write:love doesn´t let us think properly...

María del Campo 5ºC dijo...

I agree, when love apears... it is very difficult fighting and realize that the person you´re in love is not good enought and spite of the advises, you are not able to see anything, or what is clear for the rest of people is confus for you, and it was that happened Miss Havisham at that time.

Fernando 5º C dijo...

What an interesting chapter, Mrs Havisham´s story, the relation between Mr.Pocket jr. and Pip, and the conspiracy schemed for the bridegroom and mrs havisham half-brother, I have to recognize that woman love blinded women reason, and that men take advantage of it in a unfair way, therefore i have no option but to sympathize with her in all means, it has to be quite hard to realize the hidden truth like that.

Marta P. - 5ºC dijo...

So long is chapter 3 of the second part of the novel that I forgot talking about the delicate way which Herbert uses to show Pip that he is not using his knife properly or puttint his glass too much high above his nose. It is so well pointed out, such detailed description of the situation that one can visualize it, don't you think?
Regarding Miss Havisham... yes, she was completely fooled, bewitched, charmed by his fiance. Where was the common sense that characterises woman nature?

Laura C. Group 5_C dijo...

Yes, I agree Marta. I can perfectly imagine them speaking and suddenly Herbert breaking off the chat to advise Pip about his ways. I think Herbert is a witty character, I found funny when he says to Pip that he doesn´t like his name so he is going to call him Handel instead of Pip due to there is a piece of music by Handel called the Harmonious Blacksmith.

Laura C. Group 5_C dijo...

I have felt stressful in the chapter four with so many children running, jumping, playing with nutcrackers, the nurses scuffling them…
It is remarkable in this chapter how Mrs. Pocket, whose grandfather could have been a baronet but he wasn´t and she was educated to be married with someone with a title but she didn´t, acts (according to Pip) sometimes in a too dignified way. Even Mrs Coiler, her neighbour, tries to justify to Pip about the marriage´s necessity of receiving students at home.

Carmen dijo...

Hi, Folks, I´m back (this sounds a bit spoky, doesn´t it? but I´m no ghost...yet).
I´ve read your comments, interesting all, but I would like to make you think about the reacions of friends, of acquaintance, of people in general who do not stoop to richness, or consequence as Herbert´s father did not to Miss Havisham and told her what he thought of the perils of her position in the hands of her fiance:
"..she was too haughty and too much in love, to be advised by any one. Her relations were poor and scheming, with the exception of my father; he was poor enough, but not time-serving or jealous. The only independent one among them, he warned her that she was doing too much for this man, and was placing herself too unreservedly in his power. She took the first opportunity of angrily ordering my father out of the house, in his presence, and my father has never seen her since.”

I thought of her having said, “Matthew will come and see me at last when I am laid dead upon that table;” and I asked Herbert whether his father was so inveterate against her?

“It's not that,” said he, “but she charged him, in the presence of her intended husband, with being disappointed in the hope of fawning upon her for his own advancement, and, if he were to go to her now, it would look true—even to him—and even to her".
read this carefully and see whethter pride doesn´t place us in a position from which there is no return.
Miss Havisham´s words in front of her fiance, that herbert´s father was angry because his possible court had been thwarted by the appearance of this new suitor, prevented his ever mixing with her again.
Have you ever been/seen anything like this in real life? I have.

Carmen dijo...

I will also raise the following discussion: why are women so intense where men are concerned? why does love alter a woman like this?

Anónimo dijo...


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Fernando 5º C dijo...

As far as i am concerned, women are characterized by emotions and for being sensitive and pasionate humanbeings, therefore when you are deeply involved with someone you are falling in love, your reason or perspective is usually distorted or subjective , that is why you react sometimes in a wrong way, so as not to be blinded by your emotions you will have to work in your emotional balance in order not to be betrayed by men or avoid that as far as possible at least.

María del Campo 5º C dijo...

I believe that women put all our strength , our heart, our sense in one man when we are in love, an men are driven by many things simultaneously an not just for the love of this woman, so when love fails they are not as lost and alone as women find when this happens, therefore it is necessary to follow Fernando´s advices: you will have to work in your emotional balance in order not to be betrayed by men.

Carmen dijo...

doing a bit of catching up I have to say that money affects people, thus when it is known that Pip has great expectations, all the people whom he knew vary their attitude towards him. Don´t we all on hearing that a millionaire is around? Not you? perhaps you have never been with millionaires!!!

Carmen dijo...

Isabel, 5A, fine with me about Sonia, and thanks! do write more, it is very good practice

Carmen dijo...

María, Mr. Jagger´s words "you are sure to go wrong" rings in my ears...how can it go right? to be so constrained before and now, so free...

Carmen dijo...

On the subject of Miss Havisham´s unfortune infatuation..it does not surprise me that she is so blinded, most women in love are completely fooled in the characters of their lovers, I was, too, I mean it is a question of building, creating a person, we love and who...doesn´t exist. In fact I consider it more profitable to come to love after friendship, because in this way, you cannot build up your own hero.

Carmen dijo...

The combination of pride and spoil make poor Miss Havisham an easy prey, don´t you think?
Lancelot, thanks for sympathising...it is consoling that at least, and through literature you have come to agree with me that men are...can be, horrible, to poor innocent women, as was Miss Havisham.

Carmen dijo...

Lancelot so glad that through literature you have come to agree with me in that men are..can be horrible to poor innocent women...

Fenando 5ºC dijo...

I totally agree with you Carmen about love must come after friendship, but who has enough patience until not getting involved before that? it´s really easy to get excited with the idealization of our lover that it is very common to fall in these wrong ways of acting, but don´t give up of trying, as You have said the character of a humanbeing(woman´s in this case) is brought as time goes by, ;-)

As far I am concerned , i have come to the opinion that some men can be potencial or real swindlers, indeed i have Been one of them, but fortunately I have realized the consequences of this wrong actitude and i have become more responsible and honest with women, however of my changing actitude effort i have suffer from the opposite side in my flesh, but i have come into the conclusion that it is better to have a quiet concience than a fancy moment or relation.

Miguel 5C dijo...

Hi folks! A friend recommended me these tips about writing e-mails. I hope you like it.
http://www.switchvision.co.uk/your-emails-just-kill-me/?subscribe=success#subscribe-blog

See you in class!

Carmen dijo...

Lancelot, very good advice to all of us when you say that we ought to control our emotions...you´d as soon tell us not to gossip....

carmen dijo...

Lancelot, glad you have improved on your behaviour towards women..."I envy you your peace of mind" said Rochester to Jane. Ther´s nothing better.
I would like to discuss here the healthy relationship existing between Wemmick and the Aged. what a pleasure it must be, it is to behave rightly by your old parents and your old parents back to you, another thing would be the grumpy, irritable elderly, which are so difficult to put up with.
my question is, what should we do with our elderly?

María dijo...

Hello everybody! I just popped in... and saw you are speaking about the elderly... I went to the cinema this evening, to see Quartet. It is not a very remarkable film, in spite of the fact that Dame Maggie Smith is on it. However it is a story about retired musicians who live in a residence. It was actually very sad to see them all there..., retired and isolated, after a life of success. They seem to be happy though, the film is completely uninteresting as far as aging is concerned, but, one can notice how important it is for them to have people around. One of them says: "I don´t have a husband, I don´t have children, but I have you", referring to two residence mates. Then, I guess that the elderly just want to have company. So, as to Carmen´s question, what we should do with our elderly is provide them with company... (ours of others´... sorry, I´m joking). The funny thing is that the characters in the film never worried about solitude during their whole lives. Had they known they would be so lonely, they would have tried at least to marry somebody and have children to be cared for by... Why should solitude worry us so much? I wonder…
Wemmick is an adorable man at home because of his devoted care of his Aged... The Aged is very well cared for (which is unfortunately unusual), which makes him content. He is just pleased when people nod away at him! So, that´s what we should do with our elderly, Dickens said, we should nod away at them! and listen to them for they will not "listen" to you..., for they might not... hear you very well. Night night

Laura C. Group_C dijo...

Yes, I agree. We must respect more our elderly. In the ancient civilisations the elderly were respected and listened because they thought wisely that who has lived more years they have more experience and they know more about life. Nowadays in our culture this idea is not followed anymore, on the contrary we support the idea that they are not only useless even they give us many problems. Unfortunatly many of them end up their last years isolated and alone.

Laura C. Group_C dijo...

In this chapter even Pip realizes that he is spending a lot of money, he exactly says "I soon contracted expensive habits, and began to spend an amount of money that within a few short months I should have thought almost fabulous"
I think that everybody happens that when we don´t have much money we realize that we don´t need too much to live but when we have money it is impossible for us live with only a few things.

Carmen dijo...

sorry to give you such short notice, but I´m going to see the quartet, this evening, at 8pm in Renoir Retiro, just in case anyone is willing to join in.

María del Campo 5º C dijo...

I believe that we sould take care of our edge in the same way they have done with us; and I´m sure that´s what we think but, when it is necessary, it is some times very difficult to do it, especially now that we live in a big city and we spent a lot of time going fom one place to another. I remember my granfather who lived in a small tonw and he was surrounded by his four sons then it was easier to be careful about him because everything was close.

Laura C. Group_C dijo...

I have just read chapter seven. In this chapter Mr Jagger´s intelligence is confirmed again. When he invites Pip and the other three young men he almost doesn´t speak but he manages the dinner talk so that everybody talks about their own weaknesses!!

Fernando 5º C dijo...

In regards to your question about our elderly, i want to say that it´s not an easy subject, however we owe a great respect to the people who have given us our existence, we have to consider how much we have to sacrifice to take care of them, because the elder you become the more selfish you are, they behave as children do, requiring all of our attention, not taken into acoount that we have to attend to our lives and family at once.
As far as I am concerned i want my elderly be as comfortable as possible, if I can afford a good retirement home, i´ll do it, and therefore i´ll pay them visits as much as possible, but many times that it´s not possible because they can accomplish many task by themselves and get along well with the rest of family members, mainly the ones who are not directly related to them(same blood).

Carmen dijo...

María, how true it is that company and nods is all that many elderly need, Dickens, brilliant as he is, gives us the tips through Wemmick as to what to do for them.
I´m glad that I can say that personally I have paid much company to those of my relatives, who have now left for their final home.Folks, you will be glad to do what little you can do for them.

Carmen dijo...

Laura, how true is it that we see our elderly as an encumbrance.
I like your comment about our needs, how very true!! The more we have the more we need...oh that we knew how to live with few things...

Carmen dijo...

Fernando, it is true that sometimes we cannot take care of our elders...residential homes are a solution, but then, it is sad, isn´t it? ideally we should be near and visit, pay them company, live with them, it is boring, difficult, it involves sacrifice, renouncing to some part of our lives, but then, how sad is it to be alone, ill, frail?
perhaps the problem is that we live too long, we are forced to remain by scientifical progress, when our passage to the other world would have taken shorter had science not meddled....

Carmen dijo...

Mr. Jaggers....folks, would you like to have him in front of you in a trial???
Why is Jaggers attracted to Drummle? I wonder if the lawyer sees him as capable of surpassing him??? Drummle certainly has guts enough to do and say what others would not. Do you think that this comes of his economic independence? his blackish heart? I have always been surprised at those who have the endurance of hurting others as if they were merely drinking a glass of water...

Fernando 5º C dijo...

Mr Jaggers, such a disturbing character like him can´t go unnoticed, he hides very well his cruel intentions towards people, except for the protocol of washing everything that could be in contact with common and vulgar humanity which mekes him a personage to dread a bit. I don´t know why but i feel that I am similar to his personality even more than to other character inside the novel, could be that a little worrying? who knows, hehe

Carmen dijo...

Madrid Players present :

The Parting Glass, by Dermot Bolger, is a story of love, friendship, collapsing economies and Thierry Henry’s left hand.
It’s November, 2009. After emigrating to seek work after Euro 88, Eoin made a new life in Germany, but returned to Ireland with his wife and son at the height of the boom, and just in time for economic collapse. Now he’s off to cheer Ireland to victory in the Stade de France with his best friend, and his son, who’s flying off to start a new life in Canada.
The play is a hilarious and moving tribute to the way family, friends and football help us to endure through difficult times.
The Parting Glass, first staged by Axis Ballymun in June 2010, is being performed by Madrid Players as a dramatized play-reading, at the Centro Gallego, Calle Carretas 14 3rd. floor, on Friday 15th. and Saturday 16th. February at 8 p.m. , Tickets are available on the door for 5 euros.
The play features occasional strong language.


--
Website http://www.madridplayers.org/
Facebook http://www.facebook.com/the.madrid.players


AFRICA 5ºA dijo...

Hi everybody,
I would really like to speak about all of the subjects that I have read here, but I am going to focus in Mr.Jaggers character. By the way Carmen, what a good subjects you proposes us!
It seems to me very interesting because I do not think that he tries to hide his intentions, on the contrary he shows directly his own intentions. He only made things by money, and like a good lawyer, he is able to do what it is necessary to win a trial, and he does not care if the customer is innocent or guilty. In a trial, I would like to have him in my team but not in front of me.
Besides, despite he has not heart or remorse, the "ritual" of washing his hands show us a kind of cleanse of his soul. It is like if he thinks that all of his evilness disappears with the water and the soap. That fact brings to my remembrance what “Pilatos” done after Jesus’ unfair judgement.
And in my opinion, Mr.Jaggers is interested in Drummle because he is able to see people’s souls in deep, and that of Drummle is very dark. Probably, Mr.Jaggers sees in him a potential customer in a very near future...

Laura C. Group_C dijo...

Coming back to Mr. Jagger…
In my opinion because of his intelligence, his personality and his persuasiveness he is the kind of person that nobody wants as an enemy. It is better to have him as a friend than as an enemy.

aleceia dijo...

Reading the chapter about Joe's visit,I have felt real pity. Although, Dickens knows to balance the sad and comical aspects, the Pip's attitude wins in this chapter, and the funny moments with the Joe's hat stay on the sidelines. I think we all understand Pip , and his
embarrassment is very human, but that is a sign that he doesn't accept himself and he has to learn to feel another kind of pride, more similar to dignity.
Alicia 5º C

Africa 5ºA dijo...

Hi,
I would like to say a few words about the elders. I grow up in a tiny village where parents live together with their children and with their grandchildren until the end of their days. When I was young I thought that it was regular and I supposed that it was in this way to everybody. What was my surprise when I had to go to “the city” to attend at secondary school, and I realize that my “city” friends did not live ever with his grandparents, and they spoke about them as if they were a kind of strangers.
It was wonderful have been able to grow up together with them, and to fill myself with all of their love and their kindness, above all that of my grandmother's. Even today when I see a picture of them I started to cry, because they were to me not grandparents but “second parents”.
This was possible of course, because my mother was housewife and we live y a big house, where all of us, were comfortable enough.
I know that nowadays, it is more difficult because of the timetables and the tiny apartments, and the most important: we are not used to live with elders, and it is for that reason we are not able to deal with them, and find them annoying and with oddities.
And we have become more selfish and we only think in our “needs” instead of being able to put ourselves in the other’s place, thinking a little bit in their needs.
And finally, I would also say thanks to Nuria because she has sent me all the homework, the writing titles and also her notes. THANK YOU NURIA.
Sorry for the extended post.

María del Campo 5ºC dijo...

I would not have Mr. Jaggers in front or beside me either because he is a very bad man and powerful, and knowing it, he uses his power against people but when he finds someone like Mr. Drummle is, he notes it and treats him differently.

Fernando 5º C dijo...

Taking for granted that i have permission from carmen to introduce a discussion i want to give my opinion about freedom expression in our way of dressing or external aspect.
Being different is very important for human being, being a copy as the rest of the people are is not( as far i am concerned) a good way for leaving a footprint in life, I have realized that the more different you are in differnt aspects(dress, body, hair, and so on)the more people despise you for not belonging to their society, i think difference is beautiful, throughout history being diferent has being a way of persecuting and putting people aside, the colour of your skin, the religion you follow or the music that you like have been most of the times excuses for ignorant and despicable people to make suffer others just for being different, what´s your oppinion respecting this subject? ;-)

María del Campo 5ºC dijo...

I consider the topic very interesting, in fact, yesterday I wanted to say something about that. I believe that when someone is young is when you have to do whatever you want, always without disturbing those around you. Be different is always attractive,not only when you´re young but also when you are old. This can be seen in the clothes you are wearing, but not inside you, which is the most important thing.It is good also be rebel and be mad at least one in your life, I believe it is good for youself the most of the times.

Laura. C Group_C dijo...

I believe that our way of dressing is a means of expression… Is everybody similar? I don´t think so… so, why must everybody follow trends? If you look at people´s way of dressing in Madrid you would discover that we almost wear uniforms… I love cities such as London where people dress in many different styles, mixing colours without fear.

Many young people don´t accept all the rules of society, they have an irreverent and transgressive behavior and they express this attitude dressing differently. I believe that being (or at least trying to be) not so conformist with rules is a good thing, especially during youth.

Carmen dijo...

well, really Lancelot I don´t think you are Jaggers at all, you have said in class you have feelings...Jaggers has none.

Carmen dijo...

Africa, so good to heear from you! I hope you are thriving and getting better.
yes, the washing of hands is a cleansing ritual, as if he is "uninvolving himself in any action of anbody connected with him.
so glad you like the discussion!

Carmen dijo...

Alicia, you have introduced a very good word, dignity as oposed to pride, dignity belongs to Joe, while pride resides with Pip, don´t you think?
This chapter helps the reader, reminds the reader, of how we should behave, which has little to do with our dear Pip.

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Wilkie Collins

Wilkie Collins