Fourths, this course (2012-2013) we have chosen this romantic-gothic novel for you, again a masterpiece, knowing that those who read it before you throughly enjoyed it. We hope that you make use of this blog every day to improve your English.
26 de septiembre de 2012
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Wilkie Collins
116 comentarios:
Hi there,
What a pleasure is to post the first comment. I just wanted to say hello and encourage you all to participate and write as many comments as you can on this thread. I still remember the beginning of this splendid novel, "there was no possibility of taking a walk that day...".
This was my second unabridged Englsih novel and I had such a good time following this enchanting novel through the eyes of my dearest Jane that I will always remember her and, indeed, "...".
Have fun and please remember that this is your chance to improve your writting skills. You will not find an opportunity like this out there, nor even in England itself.
Best wishes.
Good morning:
I am a former student of this department. I read Jane Eyre when I was in the Advanced I (if memory hepls), and, although at the beggining its extreme and apparent complexity was very discouraging to me, I must confess that I actually liked it very much. So, you are lucky, because you are going to read this great book for the first time. Don't be afraid, at the beggining you would do it poorly, but if you keep on reading it, and practising, and you insist, you will like it, and your English level will improve a lot. You must practise everyday if you want to get a real improvement.
Go ahead,
Rosa.
ON THE FIRST CHAPTER YOU CAN ALREADY SEE THE ENGLISH SOCIETY OF THOSE TIMES IN WHICH THE CLASSES,RICH AND POOR,WERE VERY DISTINCT AND UP TO A CERTAIN EXTENT YOU ALSO CAN FORESEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE BRIGHT AND DOMINIEERING FUTURE FOR THE WOULD BE MEN AND THE LESSER ONE FOR THE FAIR SEX. OF COURSE MASTER REED IS BRUTAL,BUT WE EXPECT TO FIND IN THE FOLLOWING CHAPTERS,MEN OF GREATER MORAL VALUE.
Hi everybody.
Actually I have read the chapter one. I think that this book can be very interesting. I have read other books other years, and they were booring for me, maybe this year can be different!(And I hope so)
Roberto, how nice to read you!!! and to hear from you, you are one person who really profited and made the most of ...the eoi and all the novels we read. how is london? moving on to Autumn? "where are the songs of Spring, Aye where are they? Think not of them, thou hast thy music to" I love Autumn and in England, such colours, such beauty...
to the rest of you, please identify yourselves as we cannot otherwise know which group you belong to, write beside your name your group letter.
Julio, you are right, there are great differences between their society and ours...but then we don´t seem to have advanced so much. do we still find John Reeds now? Go to school, they may not be as rich or have as many servants, but inside there are bullies, cruelty exists currently, people who act innobly by those who are not as rich or as fortunate.
Rosa! welcome, so glad to read you again.
What really seems to me superbly described is the so called red room where poor JANE is conducted after the painful scene with hateful Master JOHN. The big mahogany bed,the varied impressive furniture,the red carpet and curtains,plus the cold climax in the room make her very unhappy.The unexpected dim light through the window causes her the sensation of being fetched by someone coming from another world.
Hello everybody,
Last Saturday, a friend of mine said he had not liked Jane Eyre because she was weak. I do not agree that Jane Eyre is weak at all, but I should admit she is not flawless either. That is what makes her an amazing character, the fact that she is... real!
I have read the novel twice and the reading experience was different. Other selves, other readings... The first time I read it I thought myself to be Jane (how typical of me). The second time I read it with a bit of detachment. Now, I do not think I am like her as much (though there are quite a few similarities...), but I still find myself looking outside my window, wondering what there is beyond the fence, and wondering many more things which I will not write down not to spoil the plot. Anyhow, I am sure you will enjoy it very much, you will not be able to put the book down, wondering what is to happen next!
You also have the great luck of reading it along with Carmen, so make the most of it.
Best wishes,
Maria
Julio, the Red room is fantastic, and the way she feels, the spook of ghosts hovering around...
María, yes there is a Jane Eyre in all of us, the restleness, the desire for action, for things to happen to us, the thirst for education, knowledge, we hardly think of this when we have them so close, but when we don´t...real, that is a good word to describe Jane, indeed
In my opinion, the Red Room scene is the first of the many ordeals that Jane will have to endure till she will become a woman. It's the beggining of her initiation: and it begins in a sort of hell, red, but cold and deserted, except by ghosts. Very distressing, this chapter. In it Jane will face, for the first time in her life, the ghosts, the inner and the others. I liked it very much, it's very symbolic.
Rosa.
Reading chapter three you can see how bad it is the behaviour of JANE´S aunt towards her as when the little girl falls ill the apothecary is required instead of calling the familiar doctor. Undoubtedly this apparently not so learned man shows a deep understanding of her and he wisely suggest that perhaps her being sent to school,leaving the hateful GATESHEAD would be convenient for the poor orphan.
the description of the red room is fabulous, get describing your own rooms to practice!!
Don´t jump ahead, julio, we discuss the chapter once we have read it in class.
Do you remember the terror of childhood?
this previous post is mine.
I´d lke you to consider the attitude to poverty of children. are they aware as early as that of the benefits of money?
Hello everybody! Jane Eyre is my first english novel. I've read some english books but any of them like Jane Eyre. Firstly I though the novel was quite difficult because there are many new words that I've never seen before. But if you just read and relax,you'll enjoy reading!
As for Carmen's question,I think children know quite well what is the meaning of money and what you can do with or without it. For example,altough Jane hates her miserable life in Gateshead,she doesn't seem really prepared to change it to other life without her cousins and aunt,and neither without money... (as we see in chapter three)
On reading chapter four you can feel the terrible hate that MRS.REED as risen in the poor ten years old girl and how valiant she is telling her what she thinks about her. MR.BROCKLEHURST from Lowood School is the typical dreadful puritan of those times trying to frighten her with hell and delivering her a pamphlet which tells the story of a child who dies suddenly wrongly accused of being addicted to falsehood and deceit.
http://www.openculture.com/freeaudiobooks
me lo envia un graduate, para bajarse pelis audiobooks etc. for free
I think that in chapter 4 we see the different behaviour towards children between then and now. We can also see that Jane stands up to Mr. Brocklehurst bravely in spite of the situation she is in. would we be able to do it?
Thank you for the Openculture link. Do you know the similar webpage Archive? I found there some classic English films.
http://archive.org/index.php
Rosa.
Thank you for your contribution.
As for Carmen's question,I think unfortunately that nowadays children haven't got respect with any person. We can see frecuently how they try to get more authority than their teachers, parents, etc.
In chapter 4 we could see how Jane made an effort and told Mrs Reed all she thought about she and how she felt, something unexpeted at that time.
The welcome given to JANE at the school is far better than her departure from GATESHEAD as her aunt does not want to be awaken to say goo-bye to her.Fortunately BESSIE is tendered and embraces and kisses her before her getting into the carriage.Sending JANE along surprises at LOWOOD which proves how inconsiderate MRS.REED is.
I think that the departure from gateshead and the arrival at Lowood are extremely sad. Having been to a boarding school I know how sad it is to leave home and how lonely and scared one is on being placed in a new situation away from home, and alone. but Jane has nothing to leave behind so she finds it more exciting. The conclusion to this is that in life we should "move on" and happily. and make the most of our future situation.
In chapter six we can observe that Jane is incorporated into the classes with the others pupils. They read the lessons and later the teacher asked them about it. A girl called Burns answered all the questions correctly but instead of congratulated the girl, Miss Scartched quarreled her for being dirty, and Jane surprised herself.
Later Jane speaks with Hellen Burns about what had happened in class and Jane didn`t understand that the other girl approve the behaviour of the teacher, but Helen answered Jane that she must to be good with her enemys and to wish well to people
Helen is sanintly. i presume there are people like that, who always understand other´s reasons, one has to be clever, indeed to do this. However in this, our society, it is difficult to meet such a one as Helen, normally we mix with the selfish, the proud, hardly ever the humble.. but I presume Helen is awaiting her death, or so she insinuates in the last speech of the chapter
0n reading chapter seven you are really surprised seeig how hard and painful were the physical conditions for the poor girls at LOWOOD especially in the winter time. But it is more surprising the rough treatment given to JANE by the hateful MR.BROCKEHURST. How could a clergyman behave like that? Fortunately at that school there were two wonderful souls:the teacher MISS TEMPLE and the pupil HELEN BURNS who do their best to comfort her.
0nthe first line I mean seeing.I apologice
yes, conditions were hard for poververty in the school or anywhere living at that time, however there are many people that suffer from cold and neglect and lack of food currently in our world. Those hard circumstances, howeber harden us, currently there are lots of well-fed fat americans that can barely move..
I wold like you to consider the comment of the ifamous Brocklehurst concerning curly hair. Is it more attractive than straight flaxen hair? why can´t Musilims show their hair? Is it because hair is sexy?
Entering into chapter eight JANE´S story is gatting moe and more interesting.Although is sad,It is a pleasure to read how good her friend HELEN is as well as MISS.TEMPLE.It is a relief to see how JANE'S reputation is acquired and how happy she is for that.The conversation between MISS.TEMPLE and HELEN arises in JANE the wish for learning drawing and french.She was so happy that she wouldn´t exchange LOWOOD for GATESHEAD.
Why, yes, it's beacuse the hair is conected with the nature, and the nature and its impulses are sinful.
Why the Catholic nuns cut their hair and cover their heads? It's beacuse the same reason. St. Paul in one of his letters, talks about the issue, and stablishes that the woman must be in a second place, and in the sacred places, if she is preaching or spreading the word of God, must cut her hair or cover her head (Paul, Corinthians, 11).
Rosa.
Hello, Carmen
I´m a former student and I won´t talk about Jane Eyre (I read it and it is a wonderful story). I just want to say that I went to Dublin last october and I went to the teather. It was a modern play but I just want to say that I almost understood the play! So I just say thank you, Carmen, for your classes, the books we have read and the plays we have seen. Next stop: London and the Globe Theater! Bye and best wishes for you and your students.
LOWOOD changed entirely with the arrival of the mild weather.Unfortunately almost half of the pupils were infected with typhus.Because of this,the rest enjoyed more freedom as this avoided the risk of contagion.JANE missed HELEN a lot .As to seeher was practically impossible,she managed to see her taking advantage that MISS.TEMPLE was attending another patient she entered into her room and spent the night together speaking about HELEN'S departure,her going to heaven and JANE´S questions about where this place was and if they would see each other some day.But what she did not expect was that their sweet night was going to be the last as HELEN died placidly in her arms.
To whom it may concern The newspaper ´EL PAIS¨ Announces that at the TEATRO COFIDIS-ALCALA 20 MADRID There are some performances in ENGLISH called teatro familiar.On Saturday at 16.30--DR.JECKYLL AND MR.HYDE and on Sunday at 12.30 BO´S LUCKY DAY.
Mar, soooo glad that you understood it so well and that your future plans include the Globe and London, keep reading and listening, don´t forget your English. Thanks so much for writing your kind words, much appreciated, I go to bed a happy woman...it is very rewarding to know that effort pays!!
And what did you find remarkable in that chapter? were you impressed by the quiet death of Helen? who payed for the slab that marks her burial place? and why?
It is really admirable to see JANE´S craving for freedom after having spent eight years at the confinement of LOWOOD. Fortunately the school had improved a lot due to the sensible persons in charge as MR.BLOCKLEHURST´S power had been diminished.Due to her intelligence and determination JANE was the first of the first and became a teacher there.However she wants to see the world and thanks to the local paper:The herald she assumes the post of governess at a house called THORNFIELD.Her pay now is going to be the double what she received at LOWOOD but her principal aim is to start a new life.
I wonder whether it is easy to start a new life, what do you think of this? Have you started a new life ever?
Hello everyone!
This is the second time I read Jane Eyre. It is a new experience to see how much my English has improved in these two years. Much as I´m enjoying this second reading it was the first time that I found it more interesting, because all the curiosity I had then is not here any more, I know what´s going to happen next!.
But now I can appreciate better these little details I couldn´t understand before very well, like the depictions.
Thinking about starting a new life, I think anyone nowadays can do it, because it means to forget everything behind you and we can´t change our names and our personal details as JE has done in the novel. We can change our live, we can go any other place, though.
For instance, I moved from Galicia to Madrid some years ago and it was hard at the beggining because the only thing I had was my work; no friends, no relatives in there... but I had something much more important than that: the support of my family and a new challenge: lots of new things to learn, know and surpass.
Maybe I can say that I love callenges, because I´m here again changing my life, in England, learning English, mingling with English people as much as I can to achieve an excellent English level.
Chapter eleven is really interesting as you can see JANE´S entrance into the unknown world. Fortunately it is not embarrasing for her as MRS.FAIRFAX is really a very sympathetic lady and make her confortable and satisfied. The most intriguing it is that strange laugh and noise which is heard in the attic corridor when she is being shown the whole of the THORNFIELD MANSION.
The end of chapter nine made me cry because Helen died when she was sleeping with Jane.
Despite the darkness of death , the author describes a beautiful scene and invites you to think about it
You are so right, Eva, it is moving to read and moving to think about death and the attitude of the dying towards their own end, and that of the people surrounding them.
Eventhough according to her own descriptionJANE was not handsome undoubtedly she was attractive and with her extreme simple attire she was a very lady-like young woman.She got on very well with MRS.FAIRFAX from the very beginning,which helped the governess to feel comfortably at THORNFIELD.We can see for her a much happier life.However the explanations about the master,MR.ROCHESTER given by MRS.FAIRFAX seem a bit dim.
I have just read quickly Julio Carrelero's post and I find it curious that you find Jane pretty (you actually wrote "attractive", though we do not usually refer to "attractiveness" of soul..., but physical attractiveness, don't we?), in spite of the fact that she is described to be plain. I would not find it curious, though, if ladies found Mr Rochester terribly handsome! I think Charlotte Bronte described him as a plain man because she would have been jealous when finding out that all female readers were in love with him!
Anyway, I just popped in -propmted by Carmen- to post the link of the most wonderful English series on television there is nowadays: Downton Abbey http://www.itv.com/itvplayer/video/?Filter=327244
Unfortunately, on that link you can only see the last three episodes of the third season, as they remove the videos after two or three weeks! However, I am certain there must be another web site where you could watch online the series. If I happen to find the web site soon I shall post it here.
Hope you are enjoying Jane Eyre... Otherwise you are insensitive!
Marcia 4C:
I've just finished reading Chapter XIII. So far Jane Eyre has awaken the most varied sensations: from empathy when she's at Gateshead; anger by the way she's treated by Mr. Brocklehurst; a glimmer of hope when she gets the most out of Miss Temple and Helen's company; reflection on Helen's death because of the way she and Jane face it; actually it made me think about my own death; pride on Jane's achievements; expectation when she's determined to start a new life out of Lowood; to happiness about the warm welcome she gets at Thorfield.
After reading chapters XII and XIII I'm delighted at Jane's behaviour toward Mr. Rochester. All she's gone through has turned her into a determined woman and it seems as if nobody will get her to be quiet. Maybe it's because she's got nothing to lose. No sentimental ties so she could always start over. Her being is constantly longing for new experiences and somehow it makes her feel guilty and perhaps some of us feel guilty too when we have a quiet life; a family to take care of; a job and we look around us and there's people who will be pleased to be in our shoes. But we, human beings are odd creatures, almost never happy with what we have; including our look.Although I don't think it's a bad thing at all. This restlessness keep us alive.
Marcia, a very good post and well-written, too. I hope you keep posting. This is indeed the case when we are faced with hardships we become stronger, I dread to think what the current generation will be like. we have raised a group of weaklings and life takes strength to be alive to be lived through.
María, thanks for the link.
do you think that she would have been jealous? do you think she would have found him attractive, he certainly has traits in his character that women admire together with some...cash and power..
Reading chapter twelve you can see how fond of nature was JANE as the description of the silent winter afternoon on her way to HAY is really descriptive. The clattering of a horse hoofs broke that solitude but never came into her mind that the unfortunate fallen rider could be the owner of THORNFIELD. It was really awkward for her to try to help him.Her amazement was great when she came back and was told that the accidental victim was MR.ROCHESTER.
http://www.beismagazine.com/ this is the link to the magazine that has been launchd by one of my pupils. Have a look...she currently translates all the information about art that appears internationally, mostly in English, into Spanish to publish it in the magazine....She uses both languages, look how far she´s got....she learnt English in those classrooms where you are now seated, and then went to live in England. have a look and tell me where in the magazine do you see that she has preceded you in the English "field"?
Julio, what feelings does Mr. Rochester awaken in you? What do you expect him to be like? Do you find him interesting? Why?
In chapter fourteen it is astonishing to read how intelligent JANE is being able to keep a long and interesting conversation with MR.ROCHESTER who is twenty years older than she is.Her eight years at LOWOOD did not make ignorant of worldly things or afraid of telling openly what she considers right or wrong never hiding what is truthful.Sometimes it may be not too flattery to the listener.MR.ROCHESTER seems too abrupt but he is sincere and fraternal.
MRROCHESTER seems to me a strong character and in spite of the accident a good sportsman and a gentleman of those by-gone years.Of course I find him interesting as he suddenly appears on JANE´S way and you can foresee he will play an interesting role in the following chapters.
In regard with Mr. Rochester I should want to point out his abruptness when speaking with Jane Eyre. He is her master!! And he is frightening! Can you imagine? Taking into account that we are always afraid of our employers. She knowing almost nothing about live and being far younger than him, she answered him with calm and as if speaking with him were the most natural thing in the world. She is showing us her braveness again.
On the other hand, ugly as the author describes him, why do women imagine him as a handsome man? Because, he is not even so lovely a character as to feel this symphaty towards him! The only important, VERY IMPORTANT thing I find in him is... intrigue.
Does men feel the same reading the novel?
http://watchseries.eu/serie/downton_abbey
You can find several links to see the three seasons of Downton Abbey!
Mystery, that´s what is soooo appealing in Mr Rochester, INDEED.
Undoubtedly chapter fifteen is so far one of the most interesting as reading it you start getting to know MR.ROCHESTER and his turbulent past.JANE´S courage is admirable risking her life to save him from the flames.What is still pending is the origen of that strange and demoniac laugh which pervades since her arrival into THORNFIELD.
Monica, we imagine Rochester as handsome, becuase women like strenthg in men, don´t you think?
mystery is another positive thing in Rochester..or in an other man...
thanks for the link María, by the way that end of that post, with that comment about Mr.R is quite enlightening as to your character...
Yes, Julio chapter 15 is vvery interesting...there seems to be a flame between Rochester and Jane, don´t you think? the fire is internal, too...very interesting...
As we read more chapters,in this book, the tale is getting more intriguing. I've just read the fifteenth. Here,it's clear that be that as it may Jane will always help Mr.Rochester, since she's fallen in love with him. But,she has feelings for him that he may not reciprocate,due his past. For, who is living on the third floor? What kind of change in his life did he talk to her once about?
The story is still a mistery to me.
"mystery is another positive thing in Rochester..or in any other man...". this is quite enlightening too as to your character, is it not?
Monica, we find Mr Rochester handsome because we know he is. Lottie was protecting herself not to get jealous about all women on earth falling in love with "her" beloved Rochy. je je, no, I am just joking. I think Carmen is right. Rochester is strong -or should I say "seems" strong?-, so Jane is overwhelmed by him -the first man after Mr. Broklehurst she meets-; she finds him terribly interesting, only because he has lived a life, which she has not yet. Shortly, he is the Master, which involves attractiveness in itself.
María, I have to admit that it is enlightening and that had it not been for the fact that I couldn´t make "our mutual friend" out, I would have never been so interested in deciphering him...in this I do not differ from other "silly" females...or perhaps not so silly after all, because some interesting women have been drawn to men who had something to hide....
I guess it is not always nice to find out about certain things... But the previous Sherlock-Holming is always exciting...
Only interesting women are drawn to mysterious men, don´t you think? Or at least, very curious women... Likewise, only interesting men have something to hide...
JANE EYRE It is remarkable the trust in JANE that MR.ROCHESTER shows as he tells her his love affair with ADELE´S mother and the doubtful paternity of such an abandoned chid.Undoubtedly he has a golden heart but he is also a typical man of his age and as his honour has been hurt,he challenges the young intruder to a duel and shots him in one of his arms.Eventhough JANE usually does not talk too much with MR.ROCHESTER she is really delighted on receiving by him the news of the far unknown world.He is relieved to find such an attentive listener.
As I keep reading this magnificent novel I try not to forget it was written in the 19th century, otherwise I couldn't honestly appreciate Charlotte Bronte's bravery. There cannot be the slightest doubt no one would have published this book under a woman's pen name. At the end of chapter xv Jane says "too feverish to rest", inappropiate words for a woman in those days. In spite of her inexperience in love affairs, passion lies in her. I wonder if she will surprise us in the following chapters and she will follow her heart. Nowadays we take for granted that a woman can address a man the way Jane does. She has dreams., expectations ; when a woman wasn't allowed to think by herself, even more one of her class. No wonder she was flattered by Mr. Rochester trust. I like the way life has hardened her and now she's self possesed. She doesn't owe nothing to anybody. I also want to join the "debate" about Mr. Rochester charming. At first I thought she considers him unattractive so as to be under the same conditions. But now I think she was only being objective. However he finds his way to Jane's heart. I'm sorry to sound outworn but I truly believe beauty lies inside and besides Jane, Mr. Rochester is the character I like best. I try to compare life in the past and nowadays and I feel a little bit disappointed about mankind. Coming from an underveloped country I still see class difference so marked and so much injustice and many times life doesn't have a happy ending. But that's life.
What is very intriguing is the conversation held between JANE and GRACE POOLE about the dangerous incident which happened the previous night.JANE does not seem to trust her.However she is resolute in her replies as well as in her questions which puzzles JANE.Who sets fire at MR.ROCHESTER´S chamber? That is the enigma.What is very clear is that to bolt one´s door every night before getting into bed is more than covenient. On the other hand you can see than JANE is very interested in knowing about the women who are MR.ROCHESTER´S friends.Is she taking a fancy to him in spite of the difference in age? Undoubtedly his attitude towards her is not cold at all and he thinks very well of her.
First of all, thank you Carmen. For your kind words, for encouraging me to learn and for giving me so good an opportunity to improve!!
And now I want to remark some important features in Mr. Rocheser that make all of us fell in love with him. Is it not important to show intrigue when you want to allure someone?. Though not on purpose, I think he is doing it perfectly, he is showing Jane that he feels something for her but he is not clear. What happens when you start a relationship "putting onto the table" all your feelings??
What a good chapter!! I can imagine Jane braving the darkness while waiting for Mr. Rochester... What do you think she is thinking all this time? Should she think in a night night kiss?? I wish he had kissed her... after holding her hand... so romantic!!
First of all, thank you Carmen. For your kind words, for encouraging me to learn and for giving me so good an opportunity to improve!!
And now I want to remark some important features in Mr. Rocheser that make all of us fell in love with him. Is it not important to show intrigue when you want to allure someone?. Though not on purpose, I think he is doing it perfectly, he is showing Jane that he feels something for her but he is not clear. What happens when you start a relationship "putting onto the table" all your feelings??
What a good chapter!! I can imagine Jane braving the darkness while waiting for Mr. Rochester... What do you think she is thinking all this time? Should she think in a night night kiss?? I wish he had kissed her... after holding her hand... so romantic!!
Chapter seventeen is interesting but very diverse as it starts with the conversation between the servant LEAH and one of the charwomen whispering that JANE does not know about the mystery of the upper floor at THORNFIELD.JANE asks herself about her feelings towards MR,ROCHESTER.You can feel in the air that there is more than a salary and a dependence between them. The description of the guests is very detailed.JANE does not seem very fond of MISS INGRAM whom she knew by MRS.FAIRFAX.Without getting to know her personally she had made of her an imaginary sketch. Some of the guesty ladies seem really cruel and snobbish gossiping about the poor governesses they had had .JANE happened to overheard them.Later she and MR.ROCHESTER met accidentally but there is more than coincidence between them.
Marcia, a most interesting and good commnt! Yes, it is difficult to palce opurselves in that century, we tend to forget that it was written a long time ago!
But Monica, the tension is created precisely because he did not kiss her? Isn´t a kiss sweeter and more passionate if waited for? If you get it first go then there is no anticipation, no imagination, no I think hands is perfect...that´s why she is feverish...all very exciting and provoking
Julio, I do think Jane is interested in Rochester...
Oh yes, hands is perfect...
Of course Mónica wants them to kiss -and so did I- but Brontë goes further and depicts a scene shrouded in mystery, or rather in uncertainty. It be as it may, the next morning Jane gets up cheerful, happy, excited, very much in love, as if they had really kissed... Poor thing.
Mónica wants Rochester to love Jane -and so did I-, but things are not that simple...
On Saturday, I had to persuade a person to read Jane Eyre again as he remembers a pasive and inactive Jane. Well, I think I disagreed with everything he said. Perhaps he disliked the book as he was 16 when he read it and his teenage disposition demanded more action and less gothic mystery. He would have preferred kisses... even a f***! The thing is that Jane is not passive! She acts and reacts! The fact that Jane is pensive, reflective, sometimes a dreamer..., does not exclude action, does it? This friend of mine forgets that she is facing a new world, a new man, a new life..., why should she be sure of what course of action to take? She is naïve and inexperienced, she needs to learn, but that does not make her inactive or passive! Don´t you agree?
María wrote the last post. Sorry, anónimo seems to be the only one option unless you have a google account today... (It may be me..., I´ve got a headache, so I cannot think properly)
Chapter eighteen is a long one and there are many different situations which prevents me from summing it up correctly.You can see that JANE is more and more interested in MR.ROCHESTER and she observes the relations between him and MISS INGRAM with a real interest not missing a single detail.Of course she does not like her and in spite of admiring her beauty she does not like her character.We could say that she even justifies their possible marriage taking into consideration their class and the spirit of those times but it would not be out of love. MISS INGRAM dislikes her and little ADELE which shows her lack of mannners and egocentric character.The climate of THORNFIELD is entirely different with so many guests and the gypsy telling their past and future.The arrival of a gentleman from the West Indias adds a new conjecture there.
María, that person hasn´t grasped the nature of the novelor the nature of humans. don´t bother with this person
Julio good, but i would like to hear your opinion more.
Julio, thank you so much, it is wonderful, I have liked it a lot. You are too kind. Have a very merry Xmas and happy New Year.XXX
The chapter eigtheen is very interesting. As Julio says, Jane is more interested in Mr. Rochester and how he acts. Carmen made us to think if Mr. Rochester is or not cruel.
In my opinion, he is also cruel, but this cruelty is by nature. He wants Jane near him, but he likes Miss Ingram too. He loves the Jane's nature, how she is, her mind. However, he likes the miss Ingram's appearence. She is hideously perfect. She sings like the angels, and the most important, she is in the same economic position as Mr. Rochester. All of miss Ingram appears good, but Jane knows that she has not got her intelligence, her "inocence" and her qualities.
Finally, as a concluision, mr. Rochester is playing with they. He feels comfortable with both women. I need to continue reading to percibate if he is cruel for nature or because he wanted to start a jealousy's game with Jane.
Carmen, of course the kiss is not the best that can happen that day, but the scene, the environment... everything is perfect and I, as a reader, am looking for good things to Jane. She deserves the kiss!!!
In my opinion, Silvia Mr. Rochester is not behaving well, he is playing with both of them. He wants them to be jealous, because he is paying attention to both of them!! And this is not fair for any of them... but it´s worst for Jane, because she is the "weaker" of them, I mean, she has no money, no social standing, she is plain whereas Miss Imgran is very beautiful... Poor Jane... she was sooooo near of a kiss!!!
chapter 19 What really amazed me it was the peaceful JANE´S attitude before the enigmatic gypsy and I was really struck by finding out that such a gypsy was MR.ROCHESTER. THE appearance of MR.MASON causes him an abnormal anxiety which forsees something really unexpected at THORNFIELD.Will MRS.POOLE have something to do with the mystery?
CHAPTER 20 What is really admirable is the trust which ROCHESTER has in JANE and I value inmensely the courage she has before the unexpected guest MASON wounded by that strange and dreadful creature whose sharp shrilly cry is heard at THORNFIELD HALL. MASON himself seems to be a very good man and although now seems to obey ROCHESTER he has paid dearly the forbidden contact with that horrible fiend who gravely wounded him.
With the chapter 20, we see how Jane always helps Mr Rochester. In many chapters she tells Mr Rochester that she always will serve him. She has a great admiration and love for him but, she is always confused with Mr Rochester's feelings. Again, we can see how Mr Rochester apply for Jane's help and she feels important, but at the end, when he tells her something about his feelings, Miss Ingram appears in the speech. At the end of the chapter, Mr Rochester doesn't want nobody see them, so he decide to go each one for different ways. With this acts we will see how Jane acts. She must be feel confused.
Answering the question Of the chapter twenty:
I have always believed that I have to resolve my own problems by myself but now I think that sometimes you need to listen an other person point of view, who she or he isn´t involved in them. So you can face properly the situation and help to better solve it.
Hi everybody. With the chapter 21 several questions appear in my head. I would like to explain my questions and some of my deductions and you do the same. For example, what do you think about John Reed's behaviour and her mother?. The strange situation when Jane arrives at Gateshead and she interacts with Liza, Georgiana and her aunt. Finally, the situation when Jane tells Mr Rochester that she has to go to Gateshead and their reactions.
For example, for me, about John Reed I think he always has been a spoiled. When he was younger, he thought he was the owner of all and nobody told him nothing. When he went to London and he needed money because he lost it continuosly in games, her mother always gave him the necessary to pay his debts.
When Jane saw again the rest of the family, she would feel strange because the papers had changed. Jane was happy, and the others maybe for John's dead and Mrs Reed's illness they seemed unfortunate, and the relations between them were cold and distant.
To finish, when Jane tells Mr Rochester she has to leave to Gateshead and they have to say goodbye, Mr Rochester and Jane seem like two lovers who don't want to be separated.
CHAPTER 21 If find chapter 21 very interesting,but at the same time very depressing.You can see that in spite of her age there is no love in the heart of JANE´S aunt.Apart from having been cruel to her when she was a child,later hiding a letter and feigning her niece´s death she deprives her of the protection,love and possible inheritance of her uncle from Madeira. The portrait of her cousins in the book is very true to life:ELIZA too puritanical,GEORGIANA too worldly.THE end of their brother is disastrous for the REES family and undoubtedly it is the cause of their mather´s deterioration.
very interesting comments. I am always puzzled, however many times I do read the scene, that it is Jane that eventually approaches, declares her love for Mr. Rochester and not vice-versa. could it be that it a characteristic inherent in us? I maintanied the other day in class that men are not so curiously, or permanently affected by woman in such a way.
On chapter 22 you can see the deep wish for having a home which JANE has as after having been so many years at LOWOOD she considers THORNFIELD as her own.At the same time you sense that she is falling in love with ROCHESTER and for the reader his probable marriage to MISS INGRAM seems to be very diffuse as his journey to visit INGRAM PARK has been suspended.A proof of her incipient love it is that when addresses to him she thinks,and perhaps she says that wherever he is,it is her home.At the same time ROCHESTER seems really delighted with her return and his rare smile at her it is enough to see that she is most important to him.JANE´S cousins are very different from each other.Their lives seem to be lost for ever once they have led their course.
DUE TO THE FACT OF HAVING TO ATTEND A FAMILIAR IN HOSPITAL ON FEBRUARY THE FOURTH,IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO ATTEND THE CLASS ON THA DAY. CONSEQUENTLY I BEG YOU TO CHANGE MY TURN IN CASE IT WOULD COINCIDE WITH MY EXPOSITION OF CHAPTER 24. I APOLOGICE FOR THE DISTURBANCES IT MAY CAUSE.THANK YOU VERY MUCH
DUE TO THE FACT OF HAVING TO ATTEND A FAMILIAR IN HOSPITAL ON FEBRUARY THE FOURTH,IT WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO ATTEND THE CLASS ON THA DAY. CONSEQUENTLY I BEG YOU TO CHANGE MY TURN IN CASE IT WOULD COINCIDE WITH MY EXPOSITION OF CHAPTER 24. I APOLOGICE FOR THE DISTURBANCES IT MAY CAUSE.THANK YOU VERY MUCH
CHAPTER 23 is so far one of the must romantic as the description of the splendid English midsummer together with the deep love arises from the apparent cold and calculating ROCHESTER it is very exciting.Before his declaration JANE is really afraid of having to leave THORNFIELD and of course him.At the beginning she believes ROCHESTER is playing a game with her,but when he embraces her and kisses on her lips fear and distrust disappear-MRS.FAIRFAX´S reaction on seeing them so close together it is not surprising at all.
sorry to give you such short notice, but I´m going to see
the quartet,
this evening, at 8pm in Renoir Retiro, just in case anyone is willing to join in.
Julio, I think that the episode of Rochester impersonating the gipsy is pathetic, don´t uyou? what is he trying to find, the ladies´characters? anything like that, so beguiling is, to me, dreadful
Silvia, no wonder Jane feels confused...or tortured: She must perceive herself as an inadequate favourite....what can be worse for a woman...in love?
Eva, wise people always listen...thoough their decision be made independently...
Silvia, a remarkably good analysis. I have nothing to object,John is spoilt and was never taught that you don´t get all you want in life and no cost. And, yes, it appears as if both regret parting "...such sweet sorrow"
I´d like to add, Julio, that in my opinion, Mrs. Reed´s source of trouble is pride, she refuses to make it up even if her conscience pricks her...beware of such a vice...Folks
Silvia, I was just thinking, that Jane is happpy in cmparison with her torn apart "fmily" in that she has done what she should and this always ensures one happiness, don´t you think?
Julio, doesn´t it strike you that she speaks first? I have this in Downton Abbey as well!!! It is a mania of English women, to speak first...I wonder. It comes not as a surprise that feminism started in England
It is reassuring to see that JANE looking at the mirror thinks that she is not plain,but really attractive and even she is congratulated by ROCHESTER for that.JANE is very modest and so the jewels offered by him are not important to her.MR.ROCHESTER wants her to be acknowledged as his wife by everybody and also he proposes her to travel to France and Italy together and besides he says that he is sure of her love and that he is entirely conquered.
When men are in love they will do anything for a woman, don´t you think? and they want them to look beautiful... that always
CHAPTER 25 The apprehension of JANE is more than justified when she happens to see that dreadful being which tears into pieces her wedding veil. When commenting this with MR.ROCHESTER you can feel that he is hiding something and although he is full of love to her you notice that he is lying and pretends to make her believe that the presence of the spectre is imaginary. On the other hand the description of nature is present on the chapter as the authoress´ love for it, It is always recurrnt in her novel. It is very moving to see that JANE cannot endure ROCHESTER´S absence and she sets out to meet him when It is already dark.
Ohh!! I love this part of the book... suspense...
I agree with you Carmen, women always speak first, but don't you think it always happens the same everywhere? Are we not the ones who take the most important decisions... even though we let them think that they had done it...
Ohh!! I love this part of the book... suspense...
I agree with you Carmen, women always speak first, but don't you think it always happens the same everywhere? Are we not the ones who take the most important decisions... even though we let them think that they had done it...
Chapter-26 Is so far the most dramatic of the book and It is so well written that It is not surprising that CHARLOTE BRONTE is considered one of the glories of the English Literature.The description of the dangerous lunatic is really horrifying as the reader does not expect that she were such a wild animal creature. It is very moving to see how desolate JANE is,especially when she takes off her wedding dress. It is a mystery to foresee what she will do in the future.
Julio I have liked your commen about chapter 26, very much, yes, both the description of the lunatic and Jane´s loneliness is great.
she captures both the fear, that she must produce, the horror of the onlookers as they see her grovelling in her hole, and the quietude of jane´s room, once again lonely, once again sad, when she had almost achieved happiness and a family of her own.
Monica, I don´t know if women speak first all the time, no I think that men do, really...
It is really dramatic to read the last half part of chapter 27 as you see how deep was MR.ROCHESTER love for JANE and how much she needed her not hiding from her his turbulent past life. of course she also loves him passionately but she is resolute to leave him as her integrity as a woman forces her to do so. It is sad to imagine how destitute she is after having paid her twenty shillings for the coach which will take her miles and miles away from him.What will happen in the future for both of them?
CHAPTER 28 Is one of the saddest of novel as you can see poor JANE entirely alone,penniless and terribly hungry.The worst of all It is that she does not know where to go and although the summer night is still and beautiful and the milky way can be seen, she is a poor destitute.Her faith in the almighty is really very moving thanking him and praying for her beloved ROCHESTER. How hard can we be sometimes.The owneress of the bakery is really cruel and the little attention which she is paid at the rectory is disappointing.The only human act until she is sheltered by MR.ST.JOHN and the two sisters. It is the farmer who gives her a thick slice from his loaf.What relief is to read that she is received by those three.
Reading chapter 29.You can see how nice to JANE are MR.S.JOHN and his sisters.Unfortunately the servant is at the beginning totally hostile as she is too protective for that family with whom she has been working for many years.Later she is comunicative and she soon realizes that JANE is an educated and learned person.It is very remarkable that in spite of being so destitute, she never loses her dignity and they soon realize that she is very lady like.
Chapter 30 In this chapter ,undoubtedly the most interesting character It is MR.ST.JOHN. He is very puritan in his religious views,but he is very honest and devoted to the poor and needy.To assing JANE as the teacher for that girl school ,planned by him proves he trusts in her.There is no need to say she wiil become a success as such and to have a little house of her own for makes her very content.DIANA and MARY are the perfect friends for the resolute JANE.
On Monday we have the Hall (salón de actos) at 7pm to watch the film ANONYMOUS
in English. It is about Shakespeare, and really nice.
you are all invited to join us, 4ths A B
Julio, Rochester loves her and indeed he is placed in a very difficult position. How can he woo her as a married man? How can he woo any woman? Thus he needs to cover up, to hide that he has "his lady" locked up in the attic.
From that position, he can move freely, the problem starts when he wants to marry. It is, indeed, silly to try to marry Jane right there,had he attempted the fact in France, he would have got away with it, however he was not expecting anything to turn up, how could it when Jane had told him that she had no one? She forgot to mention her uncle!!!
now we are all ready for the drama. they are discovered and Rochester shows his "keep", dreadful, I agree with you that the description of the animal-like wife is amazing, frightening, the deatails the writer describes the precise ones to get all the pictures of all feelings, Rochester´s and the visitors. Notice that the description is brief. However, Rochester has acted in a wrong way. It is not what we want but what we should do, therefore, as his only objective was to live with someone who is at least "human", he is punished in the story, as most of us are in real life. Who by? maybe God, maybe someone else, but we certainly do not get away with evil. It´s a consolation and a warning, don´t you think?
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for steel magnolias.
It is really astonishing to read chapter thirty-two and see how advanced for her epoch JANE was talking so directly to a reserved and discreet man like ST.JHON. Undoubtedly such an open attitude between a man and a woman was surprise for the first readers and was very hardly critized by many conservatives.We have to bear in mind that the novel was published in 1847.
Reading chapter 34 you can see how valuable JANE is for everybody and specially for ST.JOHN and his sister.This is more than proved through-out her life and you can notice her good will when in order to please him she stop learning german and start studying the hindostanee language.However she does not cease being herself and as she does not love him after painful ponderous reflection she declares she is not going to marry him.
On chapter thirty-five It is remarkable to see ST.JOHN´S insistence on marrying JANE abiding by religious reasons.We read that she is on the brink of accepting his proposal but that mysterious voice utters by the never forgotten ROCHESTER persuades her not surrender to the persistent vicar.
CHAPTER 36 That strange voice utters by the far away ROCHESTER promts JANE to set off in search of him willing to travel for thirty six hours until reaching the desolate burnt THORNFIELD hall where he is absent. The news which she received were really sad but after the fallen calamity a hope arises as she is told that ROCHESTER is alive.As you can guess she is more than ready to go and meet him wherever he might be.
Julio,
You have pointed out that Jane speaks openly to StJohn and this is very true. It is amazing that though we have advanced much as to women´s rights, here we learn that what gives you true freedom is having a well-formed mind and economical indepence. It is very difficult to be free if you depend on someone for your bread, if you see what I mean. Of course this is not saying that we owe slavery to our employer, but how many things are done, which wwe do ot approve of, on the basis of "the company"?
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