14 de octubre de 2011

THE WOMAN IN WHITE (Wilkie Collins)

436 comentarios:

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Carmen dijo...

A most amazing and entertaining novel, you´ll love it.

We are organizing a theatre outing for the 21st October, at 8pm worth 7 euros, in English, bring money those of you who want to go.

Sonia dijo...

This week I began to read a book and I admit that it´s better that I thought
It has around 700 pages but it´s enjoyable
Thank you for give me opportunity to know this author

Roberto dijo...
Este comentario ha sido eliminado por el autor.
Roberto dijo...
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Roberto dijo...

Hello there,

I just wanted to say that this is the first English novel I read unabridged. It was such a challenge that in the beginning I could not help thinking "No way, there is no reading so long a novel. It is taking me ages to understand every single page". But this didn't last long.

Don't give up (& never surrender) and you will see what a thrilling story this is!!!!! Marian Halcombe, I couldn't ever forget this name. My favourite character alongside...

Please, write on the blog because you will learn more than you will ever do with any course book. And, why not doing it while having joy?

You are very lucky students. “The Woman in White” and Carmen commanding the troop. What else do you need?

You know the song, don’t you?:

Everything you want, you got it
Everything you need, you got it
Anything at all...YOU GOT IT!

P.S. Carmen, I can close my eyes and go back instantly to that very day when we started reading this novel with you in class. How could I ever suspect where this would lead to? Thak you.

:-)

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

JULIO CARRALERO AV-1-B Pesca was very well adapted to English Life.Everybody seems to like him and he is well accepted in The Upper English circles.Besides he`s a very greatful person and at the same times he has a very good sense of humour.

Mercedes.A1F dijo...

For the moment the book seems really enjoyable. It is writing with sense of humor, and it is easy to understand although you don´t have a dictionary near.
The story will be told by diferent people, like the book we had to read last course. I like this idea because that is life, and the tale will be more credible.

Mª Jesús A1-D dijo...

The novel promises mystery and excitement, and that's a good start. Although the style of the story is peculiar of the 19th century, and sometimes it's difficult for me to understand it, because the structures are complicated and the vocabulary too, however the characters, the descriptions and the situations are very good.
Marian Halcombe is fantastic; the speech about her sister, her uncle, and about herself... is very funny.
We'll have to see how the events take place.

Marta P. Avanzado 1-F dijo...

Hello everybody,

Up to now, we have just started the novel and we have been introduced to Walter Hartright and his friend Pesca. Also, the beginning of the story has been defined (a new job, a "foster" family, the nice perspective of meeting two young girls) and it seems to me very interesting; the first lines of the novel are a decalaration of principles and I specially like discussing the characters in class because, so far, I didn't have thought in the meaning of the words suggested by the names of the principal characters like Hartright or Mr. Fairlie.

Anónimo dijo...

Pablo B. A1-F
Hello.
I know The woman in white and this new character (this fact would have to pass before or later) will bring us mistery and illusion to read a little more everyday.
Marian Halcombe is very nice and I don´t know if this character will be relevant or not, but I could assure that she will be very funny to the story and give us a very good moments.

marta dijo...

Pablo, I think you mean that Marian will be fun.
I agree, she is going to be important, isn't she? Well the description given is fantastic though I am a little angry with Collins! I think he was cruel and she didn't deserve it. Marian is so nice!
In the chapters that we have read we have the story already introduced. Are you interested??

marta dijo...

Oh I forgot to say something:
If anybody can hand in their essay this week it would be fantastic for me. So please if you can do, thank you.
Post your comments please I am eager to know your opinion about Marian

joanoriol-fica dijo...

Hye people!
well I have to say that I just recived my book on friday,
so I just read 30 pages. I can't make a comment yet about the thriller, so you will have to wait the next week to read my "catastrophic" comments.
I hope that you're enjoying the novel more than me (lol)
Well, have a good weekend and see you soon ;)

Anónimo dijo...

Hello people! This weekend started up to read. The grammar is easy to guess without dictionary close. From the time being, 20 pages passed and I am not caught by the book yet. I hope the thriller turn as per your posts and it was interesting.

Olimpia dijo...

Hello Everybody:
I’m Olimpia, Avanzado 1C
First of all, thank you for choosing this novel because I think It’s very interesting, entertaining and, according to my opinion, not very difficult to read. When I began to read the novel, I had a feeling that it was going to like me and, now, I can confirm this feeling.
About Mr. Hartright, I think he is a real gentleman, sensible and I like him by the way to tell us the story.
About Marian, I agree whit Marta that the Collin’s description is a bit cruel and I could not appreciate the goodness of Marian. At this moment, I prefer the Hartright character’s than Marian character’s.

Javier dijo...

Undoubtedly the novel´s begining is promising. It lays,as most of you have already said, in a well-defined plot and, above all,in the magnificent character´s portraits written by Collins. Although sometimes the style could appear too rhetorical, we all have to appreciate we are reading a 19th century´s novel, English novel, in addiction. About the supposed Collins´cruelty when he describes some characters, I think that´s taking things too far. English arrogance is a constant feature, even more in the 19th upper classes but, on the other hand, that is merely the way in which the author try to contrast and make suggested his character´s sketches.

Javier A1-D dijo...

The last comment belongs to Javier from the A1-D group and, by the way,there is a mistake in the last line: the author try to make the sketches suggestive, instead suggested.

Esperanza dijo...

Advanced 1D
Hi,
I am starting to enjoy the story, because some old letters have appeared that could explain the existence of the woman in white.
Otherwise, although I don't like the descriptions about Miss Halcombe because these are too cruel, I have smiled with the descriptions about Mr. Farlie or the poor Mrs. Vesey.

marta dijo...

Oriol, I am sure you will eventually find the novel worth it. You have to think that what you are reading is in a way part of what we are, of our culture. It is really the English's but we were not that different.
You haven't made mistakes, well done.

marta dijo...

Anónimo, Hello everybody.. I started reading,... without a dictionary near..., as is derived from your posts...,
Is that what you mean???
A good try, but try to write simply so that your meaning is clear, ok? I am sure you will like the novel, it is exiting and as you say quite easy to follow,which is good.

marta dijo...

Olimpia, that I was going to like it. The novel cannot possibly like or love you, you see??
I agree with you about Walter, but consider that Marian is described by him as: Her expression- bright, frank and intelligent... and softening and growing womanly the moment she began to speak.
And consider what she herself says, it reflects and nice and understanding person. Also the fact that she loves her sister so well, shows her good nature considering her sister has everything and she nothing!

marta dijo...

Javier a very good commet, but Collin's supposed cruelty..., the author trieS to....,
Your meaning is not too clear from there, the way he describes his characters??
A very good comment all the same but please don't complicate your ideas, we want everything to make sense.
Well done, in your second comment you make things cleares but careful with the third person...

marta dijo...

Esperanza, well done.
I agree that they are quite funny, but disagree with you on Marian's description. I think it is very good but I am angry with Collins because I would have liked Marian to be pretty or at least attractive, the fact that he himself was a little deformed, makes him write so about many good characters that are freaky, but why not save Marian???
Marian is lovely for me all the same but I am angry with him!

Laura dijo...

Good morning everybody:
I,m Laura, Advanced 1-C.
I agree with my class-mates, althougt we have read only a few pages the novel seems quite interesting.
In this moment some character have been introduced, yesterday we knew to Marian.
She looks an unusual upper class woman in 19th century. She values more intelligence than beauty, she speaks frankly an direct and she likes masculine hobbies.
I believe she is going to be an important character in the novel

Alicia A1 C dijo...

Hello,

I'm Alicia, and I'm enjoying with the novel and with your points of view. Up to now,I can read without many problems, though the descriptions which vocabulary is complicated, new and very literary.
Regarding Marian, I think Collins developed the character splendid and lovely inside and ugly on her outside like a contrast, so we can notice the lie, the irony of appearances , and perhaps, the injustice of the life.
Walter, on the other hand, seems a very good person, but a bit insipid. He is simple spectator of the action, until now.

Juan dijo...

I am Juan from Avanzado 1B. I`ve begun to read the novel this week.
I think I will like it although It is the first time I read a so long book in English.
In spite of what I`ve heard in the class The Woman in White is difficult because of the vocabulary. Author uses a lot of words I didn´t know.
This makes me study more.

Anónimo dijo...

JULIO CARRALERO-AV-1-B From my point of view this novel is sometimes difficult to read because it contains very unusual words.I like it,especially how the writer describes that epoch telling everything in such a way that the reader feels as if he were living at that time.

marta dijo...

Laura, although..., we meet Marian.., she seems an unusual character...,
Laura you are very right, Marian is going to be an important character being one of the sisters and also linked, through her mother to the woman in white.
She is often described as masculine, something negative for a woman at that time, but is it so today??? She is ahead of her time.

marta dijo...

Alicia, I am enjoying the novel very much.., the descriptions whose vocabulary is...,
Whose is both for persons and things or you have to say it so: the vocabulary, the descriptions of which...,
You certainly have a point in saying that Collins is probably saying that appearances are often deceiving. One forgets about Marian's looks, she is so absolutely nice when she starts talking, and it is then that she recovers her femimine qualities...
Walter is nice, as you say, and honest. One can't help liking him too.

marta dijo...

Juan,I read so long a novel..,
Of course there is vocabulary, but consider that authors often repeat the words they use, so it'll get better. You have to learn the words though.., and if you do all that you will be surprised to see how much you have learnt after reading the novel.
What do you think of the relationship between Laura and Marian?

marta dijo...

Julio, a good comment and well-written, I am glad you like the novel and as I've said you will improve a lot with it. Literature does this, a novel is much better than any text book! They are all the same and so boring!

Ana. A1B dijo...

Hello,
I think the novel is quite easy to read, in spite of the new vocabulary for us. Good writers are easy to folow and W.C.is one of the best.
I'm eager to meet Miss Fairlie. Is she as dull as I thought when Mariam described her? I hope not.

Pablo B dijo...

Pablo B. A1-F
Hello.
Marta I am really interested in this story, I tell you this because you answered me in this blog.
I read the chapter VII, and I could feel the heavy and oppressive atmosphere in Mr Fairlie´s room.
I don´t know what the story will deserve him, but may be He is important to know more about the woman in white. He is an odd person, He doesn´t allow speak loud, He doesn´t like light. Walter tryed to speak with Mr Fairlie, but He didn´t allow him finish the sentece.

marta dijo...

Ana, I am glad you like the novel, but don't think that all good books are easy to read, some are difficult. But this one is not too difficult and it is great fun.
I think you have caught Marian's hint well, or Collins' for that matter. I'm afraid Laura is not like Marian. We have to read and see....

marta dijo...

Pablo, what the story will bring him..., he doesn't allow anyone to speak in a loud voice...., he didn't allow him to finish the sentence.
Yes Mr.Fairlie is quite fantastic isn't he?? He is of course awful, and I think it would be difficult to find such a selfish man, but he is quite funny, we had a very interesting discusion about him today. Do you notice anything peculiar about him??

Pablo B dijo...

Hello Marta.
Thank you for correct my faults (I will do more fault, it is very easy to me).
I don´t notice anything peculiar about Mr Fairlie, but i am going to read again this chapter perhaps i will get soomemore about him.

marta dijo...

Pablo, you are wellcome.
..thank you for correcting... I will make more mistakes, it is very easy for me...
Well you do very well in reading it again. I'll give you a clue: Don't you think he is a queer man? Does he have any of the qualities that men are usually associated with?

Anónimo dijo...

JULIO CARRALERO-A-V-1B The novel is getting more and more interesting.I like Pesca`s ways because in spite of trying to be a perfect English gentleman he is a very typical Italian.I also like how nature is reflected on Walter´s way to London.

Iris dijo...

Hello everybody,
I’m Iris, Advanced 1C

I have already read eight chapters of this novel. We have two descriptions of Marian Halcombe. The first one by Walter Hartright and the second one by Marian. Both of them show us something different and special about this woman. Although she isn’t pretty physically she has intellectual qualities that aren’t taken into account in a woman of her time. We know her by her own description always in comparison with her half-sister. I wonder why she wants to keep the existence of the woman in white secret from her family.

Anónimo dijo...

JULIO CARRALERO-ADVANCED-1-B MR Fairlie when talking with Walter shows a deep wisdom.He does not only mention important painters such as RAPHAEL and REMBRANDT but his mansion is full of valuable works of Art.

Marta P. Av. 1 - F dijo...

I think that the most important character, so far, even more exciting that the woman in white, is Marian Halcombe. And I think so because all of us are aware of a person who has some of her peculiarities; he or she is not beautiful but tremendously brilliant, and this has been very common in literature and cinema, but, given that we have been introduced this contradiction between physical and non-material qualities, a question has sprung in my mind: will Miss Fairlie be the frontal opposite to his sister? Is she fair, beauty and... fool? Probably it is too soon to know it...

Blanca Álvarez dijo...

Hello! I'm Blanca (AD) I´m hooked on this novel! I can't stop reading it!
But I´m really disappointed with Collins about Laura's character. Why has he created such a big expectation about her and then make her so, so, so (I can't find the word!) simple, so uninteresting, so boring? I think that Walter deserves a more interesting woman!
Dear Marta: You can't forgive Marian's moustache, but I can't forgive this disappointment!

nuria A1-D dijo...

I've read till chapter 9 (included) and the story seems to be in a death path, even when we have a lot of pages ahead us. Half of the time that Walter went to be there passed, and since his first day in Limmeridge nothing interesting had happened, referring to the mistery of the woman in white. Why does Laura look like her? Are they are connected in some way? I'm longing for the answers.

Anónimo dijo...

Hello, my name is Pilar.
I do not use to read mystery stories,in English or in Spanish, but this novel grips me. Sometimes it is incredible, but interesting.

Anónimo dijo...

Julian, Adv 1. I agree with almost all of you, about the main character, Marian Halcombe, a smart woman, ahead of her epoch, sharp and straight comments but with lack of beauty. Nonetheless, my opinion is based on just first introduction of Marian, I mean, 3 pages at most. Moreover, the description of Marian through Walter's eyes make us create a picture of that which gets me amused. See you soon

Anónimo dijo...

Esperanza A1d
In my oppinion, an story with ghosts, a cemetery and graves on it, it´s been the best way to spend at halloween´s time.
absolutely proper!

Mercedes, Av 1-F dijo...

I also think that Mariam is one of the most interesting characters in the novel. In my opinion, she isn´t so ugly. When Walter describes her I imagine the tipica latin girl who doesn´t have a beautiful face but she has a good figure. Maybe, now she would be a pretty woman. I like her, because she has other qualities that make me forget her "odd" face.

marta dijo...

I agree with Iris that Marian has qualities that do not belong to the woman of the time. She is fantastic as most of you say.
Esperanza, what a laugh! You are right! How very appropriate for halloween!
Mercedes' comment I think summarises exactly what we think about her.
Now, what about Laura??? The beautiful Laura?
She is the prototype of the WOMAN in that century! She represents what was the ideal, how do we find that ideal nowadays? I would like to know what you honestly think about that. Have we changed? And what do the boys say? Do they honestly like this type of woman?

Ana A1B dijo...

I think men in 19th century were a little bit different that now a day. Did you see how Collins described the women dresses? He explained the colors, material, forms, texture and feel of all the dresses in the novel. I think this is impossible for men today. They have difficult to describe only the colors.
Yesterday I was in the Español theatre, was very amusing play.

Ana A1B dijo...

By the way, I can’t hear the different sound between amusing and amazing. It’s normal? maybe not.

Marta P. Av. 1 F dijo...

I would like to give my opinion about the ideal of woman nowadays; I think that the characteristics which fit what we all can consider an "ideal woman" are the sum of Miss Fairlie beauty, fairness, ingenuity, weakness, delicacy... and Marian's resolution and her self-confidence. Society expects women to be independent, clever, autonomous and extremely feminine, but I think this expectation, even if it has also been promoted by our willing, can be very negative in increasing an undesiderable competition. Should we be super-women?

sonia dijo...

Hello everybody!
I continue with idea that The Woman in White is an special novel
Everyday I stay more and more hokked on read
What happen with Marian ana Laura?
Walter will discover anything about of future Laura´s husband and he´ll stop the wedding?

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

The sweet relationship between WALTER and MISS FAIRLIE is broken by something which is hidden and difficult to ascertain.Undoubtedly MISS HALCOMBE does her best to make things easier but WALTER`S position is really complicated as he feels a deep love for MISS FAIRLIE.

Javier A1-D dijo...

Recent chapters -the ones about the anonymous letter- have become quite a little melodramatic, in my opinion. Also the plot is being overly enlarged at this point. I hoped more than a hiper-sensible woman from Marian´s character.

marta dijo...

Ana,...nowadays..., in describing only the colours..., it was a very amusing play.
I am glad you say about the theatre, the theatre is always worth it. Thank you.
I agree about the comment, well one has to consider that this is a novel and novelists nowadays would probably describe too, but I agree with you that most men wouldn't be able to describe any kind of clothes or other things for that matter. Why is that? Is it because we have too many things in our minds and we just don't look at what is closest to us? It is a pity that we have lost of perspective we are looking so far away that we don't see what is nearest!

marta dijo...

Ana, amiuzing is amusing, it means something entertaining.
ameizing is amazing, it means something very surprising.

marta dijo...

Marta, Miss Fairlie's beauty..., promoted willingly by us...,
Well you have a point, though I think that women value those among them who can compete with men using the man's tools. I agree that femininity is valued but we have lost a great deal of it, haven't we?
What do men value? Why are Oriental women valued by western men? Do men feel that we are ballbasters?
Marian is a woman who knows what she wants but she has a way of saying things and doing things that we don't have today. Do you agree?
I suppose that a mix is the ideal, as you say.

marta dijo...

Sonia, I still think that... everyday I get more hooked on the novel.., what will happen to.., will Walter discover something about Laura's future husband and stop the wedding?
I am very glad that you are interested in the novel, you will see that the novel gets more and more interesting, it is a page turner!

marta dijo...

Julio, a very good comment and true too, Walter is definitely in a difficult position. Do you think it is fit for a teacher to fall in love with a pupil?

marta dijo...

Javier, fair enough you want something more speedy but there are over 600 pages so Collins had to fill them with something. I think he does it rather well though of course at points the story can be a little slow.
Marian is a different woman, but... of the nineteenth century and consequently she has to submit to men, social forms etc. But don't we all do it to a certain extent?

Mercedes. Av 1F dijo...

I think that falling in love whit a teacher is more easy than whit a pupil. Usually there is significant age gap between both of them, and the good teacher has drawing power and shows self-confident. There is something unbelievable in Walter. In my opinion he seems a teenager when he describes his sensations about Laura (page 52).

Anónimo dijo...

Julian, Adv 1. Yesterday on my way back Mr. Fairlie showed up (a bit under scheduled). The way the writer describes this character by deceiving us to think, by way of femenine halo, he is fragil. He loves the beauty s a whole in whichever form, Raphaelo's painting, a well decorated room, a overorganized bookshelves, a collection of coins and so on. He is also sick of searching for the order of the things, somehow he wants everything is under his control and doesn't let people around him speak aloud either. From time being the writer set out a unusual environment on which woman has a masculine appearance and man closer to femenine behaivour. I will carry on reading. See you

marta dijo...

Mercedes, self-confidence..,
I agree with you about the teacher-pupil relationship but not about Walter's way of feeling his love. Don't you think that at any age, when you fall in love you are capable of acting like a teenager? Love makes you yooung or let's say younger and for Walter too it is first love, so he feels a bit like Romeo.

marta dijo...

Julian, he wants everything to be under his control..,
I agree that Mr.F is not as frail as he seems, what he is is selfish and pampered. You are right, he does what he wants and is not to be disturbed by anyone or anything.
Well men did what they wanted in those days much more than they do today... or not?????

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

It is not so frequent for a teacher to fall in love with a pupil, but it may happen in life and that is what occurs in the novel.I consider that love has no age but the problem arises when the pupil is a minor and the teacher is guided by the heart not by the head.

Pablo B dijo...

Pablo 1-AF
I am sad for Walter...
What a pity that Mss Fairlie is engaged...he is very sad and he is puzzled he doesn´t know how to do, if leave Limmeridge house or what to do...
Marian is wonderful, charismatic, she is lovely.
Marian doens´t have to adverd Walter about Mss Fairlei´s sittuation but she did it, she is a very good person, isn´t she?

Javier A1-D dijo...

After dozens of pages we all already know, Mr Collins : the Woman in White had a dreadful affaire with a certain baronet who is currently the Mrs Fairly´s fiancé. Could you please go on with the story?

Anónimo dijo...

Julian Adv 1. Further Marta's question I think men were able to do what they want at that time because they were breadwinner, I mean, men finance support the family. Moreover, women just developed their artistic abilities, you know, painting, music,...since the society critizised or even didn't allow they worked. This fact stayed women in a position not balanced as for Rights is referred.

PALOMA ADVANCED 1-F dijo...

Hello everybody!!!!

I have read the chapters 10, 11 and 12 and you can feel the shadow of the Baronet.

Marian dicovers the Walter´s feelings and she said him that he should leave the Limphead House.He thinks that can not do anything and he will lose to Laura. It is possible?.Do you think that Walter will continue with his life forgetting about Laura?

In my opinion, the feelings will triumph.

What do you think?

Anónimo dijo...

Esperanza A1D
Has anyone understood Mr.Fairlie's letter?. It has been difficult for me to understand that Walter was allowed by his employer to get back home.
What a complicated letter!
In my oppinion, Mr.Fairlie is unable to be in charge as head of family.
On the other hand little by little i like more Miss Halcombe's personality, because she lives in real world, is direct, sincere and able to solve problems

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

JULIO CARRALERO-A-V-1-B Undoubtely MISS HALCOMBE is a very good sister and at the same time a very honest and straight person.Ilike the way she deals the matter related to the ralationship between MISS FAIRLIE AND MR HARTRIGHT.MISS HALCOMBE tells him that love between them is impossible as she is engaged to another man with whom she will get marry as she promised her father on his deathbed.For this reason MSS HALCOMBE asks him to leave the house and he , against his feelings without any grudge but wounded does so.

Blanca Álvarez dijo...

Hi!
There are no coincidences in good novels, specially in a thriller. So what do you thik about the fact that Laura looks like the woman in white?

sonia dijo...

Sonia AV 1D
I finished to read the chapter 2
I´m hoocked on the novel!!
The end of chapter 1 is fantastic
The moving scene is really exciting between Laura and Walter altough I imagine that the boys of my class will think different way
I want follow reading, can I Marta?

marta dijo...

Julio, when the student is underage..,
Yes I agree with you, but very often it is not desirable, is it? The teacher is usually the dominant and the student is more vulnerable. Don't you think?

Pablo, he doesn't know what to do..,..to warn Walter..,
I agree with you about Marian, she meant well, she is the best person one can think of, I do really like her.
Javier,...who is now Miss Fairlie's.
But aren't you interested in knowing why in detail??? It might be true that that was the case, but maybe it is not, we have to read the whole novel to know. And feel the pleasure of reading....

marta dijo...

Julian, to do what they wanted.., were providers... didn't allow them to work.., left women in a position of...,
Yes and so they were vulnerable and dependent on men which put them at great disadvantage. Marian says many true words complaining about this situation and what it meant for women.

marta dijo...

Paloma, Walter's feelings and she said to him.., he will lose Laura.
What else is there for Walter to do if Laura is engaged? I'm afraid that he will have to leave, the problem is that Laura returns his feelings and so they can't stay together. It must have been awful for Walter! Isn't it terrible when that happens? Has it happened to you? I mean to have a love that is impossible, to see that your beloved is going to marry somebody else? I know some such case and in the end love triumphed, I will tell you the case one day.

marta dijo...

Paloma, Walter's feelings and she said to him.., he will lose Laura.
What else is there for Walter to do if Laura is engaged? I'm afraid that he will have to leave, the problem is that Laura returns his feelings and so they can't stay together. It must have been awful for Walter! Isn't it terrible when that happens? Has it happened to you? I mean to have a love that is impossible, to see that your beloved is going to marry somebody else? I know some such case and in the end love triumphed, I will tell you the case one day.

marta dijo...

Esperanza, as family head..,
I agree with everything you say, Mr. Fairlie is like the letter selfish and complicated and rude. He was angry with Walter for putting him to the inconvenience of having to look for another teacher. Not that he would do it anyway, I think probably Marian would have to solve that problem too. I agree that Marian is wonderful, and such a good person too, I wish she found someone!

marta dijo...

Julio, undoubtedly is Miss H..., she deals with the letter.., she will get married..,
I do think that Marian did it because it was necessary for them to separate, and she was honest to say that Laura loved him too. But should she have said it?? Don't you think it is rather too intimate a thing to say? I wonder if I would have liked somebody to tell that about me. However sometimes it is good to provide that imformation...

marta dijo...

Blanca, do you rally think so?? I think the contrary: that there are coincidences in good novels and what is more, that there are many.
Don't you think that we are prepared to accept coincidences in novels? Coincidences happen in real life too.
The fact that they look alike makes the novel more interesting to me, for I am curious to know why.

marta dijo...

Sonia, I finished reading chapter..., the boys will think differently...,
Of course you can continue reading but please don't say anything. We have to keep the class pace.
I am very happy you are hooked on the novel, I think as you that the novel is gripping!!

Pedro A1F dijo...

Hi darlings.
In my oppinion, Miss Halcombe is the most mysterious person in the novel (at this moment).
She is jaelous of Walter, and she don't want that Laura and Walter will get married.
The letter writer is a person who is near Miss Halcombe.

Pablo B dijo...

Hi Ladies and gentlemen (I am speaking like in eighteen century!!! May be it is for the book)
I am thinking about who is Miss Fairlie´s engagement, and in my opinion I think he would be The Baronet.
Although it appear a misterious letter that it could be written by Anne Catherick to warning Miss Fairlie about The Baronet.
See you this evening.

JULIAN dijo...

Julian, Ad 1. Once I have read chapters 10 up to 12, I highligth the mysterios letter which introduces Sr. Percival as evil person and it´s the connection point to joint what The Woman in White first requested to Walter in his way to Limmeridge house. This letter turns the trigger to make Walter focused in prove what the letter claim since he was very concerned about the coming Laura´s wedding. Apart from that, the conversation from Marian to Walter is amazing, not only for the courage of her to reveal the engagement of her half sister but the confirmation on which is set out the vast of majority of women in that date were engaged with husbands who did not first love and most of them were in connection with family business, inheritance, assuring the maintance of a whole family as in my opinion is the case of Fairlie´s family.

Javier A1-D dijo...

I just meant in previous coment that some parts of the story seem to me deliberately dilated and they add no one new element to the plot. More over I wonder if this might have to do with the fact that the play was firstly serialized in press.
(Be sure I feel the pleasure of reading.Particulary good literature.)

Ana I.Sánchez AV1D dijo...

Hello everybody:
I´m reading chapter I of the story written by Vincent Gilmore, and I ask myself: Is it the letter written by Sir Percival to Anne Catherick´s mother a trick?
What do you think about that?

marta dijo...

Pedro, and she doesn't want Laura and Walter to be married.
I don't really see it your way. Miss H has been described as having a "bright, frank and intelligent" expression, why should she act deceitfully? We all like her, she is devoted to her sister and there is no indication whatsoever, that I can see, to prove what you think. Where do you see it in the text? Show us some proof please

marta dijo...

Pablo, like in the 18th..., who Miss F's fiance could be the Baronet as the mysterious letter appears to have been written by Anne C to warn Miss F about the Baron.
Careful with the structure, write simple sentences first, ok?
Yes everything points at what you say, I think the Anne has something against the Baron that we don't know and that might be false according to what Marian says about him.

marta dijo...

Julian, as an evil person.., to join what the woman.. first requested of Walter.., to make Walter focus to try to prove what the lette claims... Laura's coming wedding...,.. with husbands whom they didn't love..,.. is the Fairlies' case.
Good ideas but write simpler at first in order not to complicate the structure too much, please and follow the English sentence order S+V+O+A.
I agree with everything you say, Marian had courage and meant well when she said about her sister. The only thing is one wonders if she didn't say a bit too much to a stranger. Although one has to admit that as they were intelligent they immediately got on, and also that the fact that Marian sees that Walter is in love makes her rely on him.

marta dijo...

Javier, in the previous comment.., add no new element to the plot..,
I am sure that you do, and you are right that the fact that it was written for a journal determines the way in which it was the novel was written, it is not a play, but I think Collins does it in a brilliant way as for me it is not as slow as it could have been. There is practically something new in every chapter and often very unexpected, like Laura's engagement, that was a surprise indeed!
On the whole for me it is quite successfully done, though you have a point. Well Collins got paid for the number of pages, so no wonder that he added a few that are not too relevant to the story!

marta dijo...

Ana, Is the letter written by Sir P..,
It doesn't seem to be but it could very well be so, the thing is that Anne says that she doesn't get on with her mother. Someone is lying... but who??? I can't help sympathising with the woman in white, but maybe she is a charmer like mad people sometimes are... and she has deceived all of us... everything points at Sir Percival but sometimes the most obvious is not the culprit.

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

I am terribly sorry for not having understood our teacher explanation.Fortunately Iam not a cocaine addict.If I answered wrongly it was because I misunderstood the rule of the structure.Next time I will do my best in order not to make such a terrible mistake.

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

WALTER sees from the porch of the church old MRS CLEMENTS and poor ANNE CATHERINE. ANNE was so absorved over her task that does not see WALTER approach and when he is nearer, sheis frightened.WALTER asks ANNE why she is in the Churchyard and she replies that MRS FAIRLIE was better than her own mother and so she wants her tomb to be as white as snow.

Laura Grupo 1-C dijo...

In the last three chapters we have discovered Laura´s secret but in this novel when a secret is discovered new mysterys appeares. Laura receives an anonymous letter where a dream is told, a child assures that he has seen a ghost, a person totally in white has been in Mistress Fairy´s grave... Miss Halcombe only look for a real and believable explanation, but Walter only can see a link between every events: The Woman in White.

Pablo B dijo...

Pablo 1A-F
Hello.
Marta thank for correcting, never have I seen so many faults in a person as me…
Anne C. is a wonderful woman, obviously she is special when she speaks or only how she express herself.
Walter is doing very well with her, he knows how to speak with her warmly and she felts confident and she doesn’t hide of Walter.
This chapter is being very interesting

marta dijo...

Julio, our teacher's explanation..,
It was not a terrible mistake, it was a funny mistake, we all laughed and that is fantastic, laughing makes us younger. And now you have written a perfect comment which is fantastic.

Julio a well-written comment but what do you deduce from that scene? We have to give our opinion not just say the facts, ok?
Do you think that Anne is honest and her mother was not good to her or do you think that she is thinks so but it is probably not true? Are mothers usually bad with their daughters? One wonders....

marta dijo...

Pablo, thanks or thank you for correcting me.., never have I made so many faults..,
Well Pablo don't worry you probably made more mistakes than you thought and now you realise because you know more, the more we know the more aware we are of our deficiencies!
... or when she expressES herself.., she felt (the past has no change).,hide from Walter.., this chapter has been very interesting...,
I agree that the novel is getting more and more interesting. But don't you think that Walter scared her too much and was stupid to lose that great opportunity? I think he so much wants the Baron to be bad that he was careless with poor Anne.
Why do I say poor Anne? I suppose it is because I sympathise with her, I feel sorry for her but really sending an anonimous letter was not nice, was it?

Javier A1D dijo...

Talking about writers who knows women very well...:
"Then,with that courage which women lose so often in the small emergency, and so seldom in the great,she came on nearer to me"
¡Chapeau!, Mr Collins

Javier A1D dijo...

I´m afraid there is an extra ´s ´ in the previous comment.
(¡I´m a died man!)

JULIAN dijo...

Hello guys, further to conversation between Walter and Anne, the latter said to him she didn´t get on well with her mother. Instead, she is fond of Mrs. Fairlie. Mrs. Fairlie, of course, was a mother for her. On the other hand, she warned Laura about Mr. Percival altough she didn´t mention his name. We need a argument which link Anne with Mr. Percival and his mother. Could it be Mr. Percival was her father? it seems obvious Anne is angry with her mother. She left Anne on Mrs. Fairlie hands.
See you!

Javier A1-D dijo...

a died man?
(My God, I´m doubly a dead man)

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

When ANNE CATHERINE escaped from the asylum of one of the pursuers she was really alarmed.WALTER was very glad to hear she escaped from It and MRS CLEMENT knew too.ANNE CATHERINE praised MRS CLEMENT as she was glad that she had escaped but that should be kept in secret from everybody.

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

A misterious letter arrived addressed to MISS FAIRLIE written by ANNE CATHERINE. WALTER considers that although not named SIR PERCIVAL GLYDE COULD possibly be implied in the letter.

Mercedes. Av 1-F dijo...

I have just read the Walter´s description about points of resemblance between Laura and Anne.
I think that they are sisters.
Never have I seen such extraordinary likeness between two women who aren´t relatives.
Undoubtedly, they don´t have the same mother, but they can have the same father. We don´t know Mr. Fairlie´s life.

marta dijo...

Javier, writers who know women very well..,
Thank you for the quote, it is true! I do think that women often raise in difficult moments but not always. Men sometimes too, but as men usually took all the decisions it was only in difficulties that one could see women's courage.

Ah I see that you did see the mistake!! Well done!! It is very good to correct yourselves it shows you know.

marta dijo...

Julian, after Walter and Anne's conversation.., we need an argument which leadS.., Sir P and HER mother.., she left Anne in Mrs.F's hands...,
Sir P's mother has nothing to do in the story so far.
Try to comment a little rather thann telling the story ok?
I don't think Anne's mother left her in Mrs.F's hands, Anne went to Mrs. F's school for a time, but nothing else. The thing is that Anne remembers her as great bacause she was kind to her. Children often maximize what some adults do for them.

marta dijo...

Javier, you will speak English well if you persevere...

Julio, good comments but you have to interprete the story not retell it. That is not the idea. What do you think about the letter, was it well done? Should Anne have not done it? Or was it right? Should she have been more explicit? That is the idea.

marta dijo...

Mercedes, Walter is a proper noun so it does not take an article: Walter's description..,
Do you really think they are sisters??? Well it is possible but one wonders if Mr. F could have done such a thing. And why would Mr.F not have supported the little girl or told his wife about her when she was a kind person and had met the girl? This is something that I can't make out.
What do the rest of you think? It would explain the likeness though. However sometimes people look alike without being kin

JULIAN dijo...

I tried to tell the story on my own. Anyway, in the last post summarize the less than the previous ones. I will try to give opinions rather than outline the story. This way, the last three chapters are a bit boring. AS for your question, it may Mrs. Fairlie was just in charge of her learning but Anne has a good oppinion of it. Let´s remember Anne has a mental disability. On the other hand, the approaching from a colleague who supposes Laura and Anne might be sisters is quite interesting. See you

Mercedes. Av 1-F dijo...

Marta, maibe Philip didn´t know that he had two daughters.
Although it is a good book,the plot seems a soap opera.

marta dijo...

Julián, it might be that Mrs. F.
Mrs. Fairly was not the teacher she says "my school" because she must have paid the expenses of the girls and that is why she says it is her school, but she was not the teacher. So what Anne remembers is her person and what she said to her.
Yes the possibility of their being sisters exists, though one is surprised at Mr.F's double life, isn't one?? However that would explain the likeness of the two women.

marta dijo...

Yes, it is a successful soap opera I agree! I wish I would write one, they very often bring money and then I could stop teaching!!

JULIAN dijo...

Hello everyone....if we accept Laura and Anne were sisters we would have worked out part of the mystery. Any case, why did Anne write down this letter? What does Sir Percival hide? There is a new shift in the story by delaying the marriage date. If I were Sir Percival wouldn´t let Laura stain my reputation. Gentleman word was enough proof at that time. Why did Sir Percival provide further arguments to support the confinement of Anne? Whatever it was, the distrust from Laura remains. Would you marry to person who distrusts you? Whatsoever, so, what is the issue which Laura and Marian keep in secret? What is there behing engagement between Laura and Sir Percival?
See you!

marta dijo...

Julian, in any case..., I wouldn't let Anne..,
You mean Anne don't you? Laura could not stain his reputation, could she?
..a gentleman's word was..., Anne's confinement.., Laura's distrust remains.., would you a marry a person who distrusts you?.., behind Laura and Sir Percival's engagement?
Well there might be something hidden behind Sir Percival but what is Marian hiding? I don't see that. Or Laura for that matter.. Anne talks about Sir Percival, she warns Laura, but how can they have anything to hide when they seem so very honest and trustworthy?
I am afraid, the one who appears a little suspicious is Sir Percival.

Anónimo dijo...

Esperanza AID
In my opinion Dickens was right when decided to publish his friend’s novel. I can imagine its enormous success among readers anxiously expecting the next magazine issue in order to find out what was going to happen. While reading the novel I am experiencing similar feelings and I can not stop reading it. Never had Dickens thought this story would continue being a hit for us today, almost two centuries later, it is capturing our attention. I am realizing how difficult should have been to be a woman in those times, always dependant on their parent’s decisions and without chances of taking their own ways.

marta dijo...

Esperanza, when HE decided.., how difficult it was to be a woman..., on their parents'decisions..., of having their own way.
A very true comment and well-written, I couldn't agree more. Nowadays we don't really think about the privileges that we have gained that our mothers had not. This would be a very good topic to talk about in class, specially when today, on television, a piece of news was that youngsters think that women should please men.
What do you think about this??? And yet we are miles ahead of what and where we were....

aleceia dijo...

HI! I saw that piece of news too and it's alarming to realize of the quantity of women who think and feel that her role in a relationship is being a ornament object and a docile servant. In my opinion,Sir Percival wants a woman like this.
When I'm reading the novel I can't stop remembering of the film Sense and sensibility, the same social environment, the excessive courtesy, the hipocresy...This film shows very well the women's function in that time.

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

I´m terribly sorry for not being able to attend the classes today due to the fact Ihave to look after a relative who is in hospital.I will miss you all.Hope you will not consider it a lack of attention.

Laura 1-C dijo...

When sir Percival arrived to Limmeridge House I didn´t dislike him I thought he was very educated and honest and I thought every character in the house was influenced by Walter´s stories. But now I am sure he is only interested in Lauras´s inherite and they were right about him, even Laura´s greyhound has a bad hunch about him!!
I don´t know why she changed her decisition about her wedding, I feel sorry for her. Laura is pretty rich she could choose her husband but she believes that she has to obey her father´s wish. Her uncle could help her but he is really occupied thinking in his painfuls, coins, and picture of angels...

Iris 1-C dijo...

I distrusted Sir Percival Glyde because of the letter written by Anne Catherick. But now that I have read the articles of the prenuptial settlement I have more reasons to distrust him. He is very interested in Laura’s money and furthermore he is very interested in getting married to her before she is of age. Is he planning anything against Laura before getting married? His hurry is very suspicious. Even Mr. Gilmore is beginning to distrust him. Maybe Anne Catherick is not as mad as they want us to think about.

marrta dijo...

Aleceia, the women's role then...,
Yes it is terrible to think that we have changed so little in spite of the advances. Do you think that those advances are what has done away with the family as we understood it?
And I think what Sir Percival wants is money, he doesn't care about the type of woman what do you think? Of course a docile one is easier to handle.

marta dijo...

Don't worry Julio, we will miss you, specially on the day of the novel.
I hope your relative gets well soon and you can write your opinion in the blog and practise so.
Lack of interest is what you should have said

marta dijo...

Laura, arrived at..., very polite and honest.., Laura's inheritance.., thinking OF his pains...,
You are right, we have discovered Sir P's motives and what one doesn't understand is Laura's position. I supposse at that time to obey your father was the thing, but the solicitor and Marian say don't, and yet... very irritating!

marta dijo...

Iris, I couldn't agree more!!!!
I think he wants to marry her as soon as possible to be able to get hold of her money quickly, as when she comes of age she will have the control of her money and will be able to do what she wants with it.
Sir P is mercenary, we know that now. What we have to find out is whether Anne is right about him in what she says. Will it have to do with money or with something else???

joanoriol-fica dijo...

Maybe was Percival's behavior as an unknown facet, which caused the madness of Anne?.
Marian said that she had a presage, a suspect feeling against Percival.

I'm sorry Ladies, but a perfect man as Marian described doesn't exist, and if it is, it's the opposite.
(...) So becareful!

Oriol

JULIAN dijo...

Hello everyone! Concerning the Anne´s letter I think is not very useful for Marian´s purposes. Marian distrust Mr. Percival according to Laura´s behaviour and Mr. Hartright findings but she can´t prove what kind of person Mr. Percival is. As for the letter itself, doesn´t reveal anything which we had know from the time being. Mr. Percival assists fiancially Mrs. Catherick so this fact accounts for it. With reference to Mr. Percival´s role on marriage settlement we expected this way because there must be something strong enough which keeps him focus in coming marriage despite the Laura´s distrusful. We have not find out yet what Mr. Percival keeps about the secret of two half-sisters. See you!

JULIAN dijo...

Hello Marta, I am not sure if tomorrow will go to class. I am very sorry but certain family matters make me do that. I am telling you because I had page 38 homework to set out in class. If you don't mind I would like you to move this exercise to next day. See you!

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

To see LAURA´S love for the drawing little book given to her by HARTRIGHT is really very moving and how important it is for her is shown when she entrusts it to her dear sister MARIAN. The apparent unimportant things era sometimes in life the most valuable and dearest

marta dijo...

Oriol, maybe it was an unknown aspect of Sir P's character which caused Anne's madness...., Marian said that she had a hunch, that she suspected Sir P...., and if it existed, he would be the opposite deep down
Please write simpler until you get the hang of it. Your comment is really funny, I can't stop laughing!!!! You are an honest man after all!!!! and clever too. I think that what Marian says and what we want is impossible, nobody is perfect, and yet we have that dream which is stupid.
I also like the way you admit that in the case of men all that glitters is not gold!!
Marian is going to find it difficult to meet a man up to her expectations, we'll see if that be possible

marta dijo...

Julian, concerning Anne's letter I think it is.., as for the letter itself it doesn't reveal anything which we hadn't known??? Is that what you want to say?? You have to keep to the English sentence order, if not you complicate it so much that in the end it makes no sense.
Sir P assists Mrs. C financially., had known..., in reference to Sir P's attitude in the marriage settlement... the rest is not clear, what do you mean?
What is clear is that he is marrying Laura for money and if she marries him knowing it she is stupid for no father would wish his daughter to marry in those conditions unless she was pregnant!!
How do you know they are half sisters?? Considering that Anne is about a year older that Laura that would mean that either of Laura's parents was unfaithful!! I don't think they can be sisters.
Please write in a simpler way and keep writing to solve the problems that exist.

marta dijo...

Julian, thank you for posting that you might not come, but when it happens again, what you have to do is find somebody else to do your task, ok? And this is for everybody, please if you do it so we can continue with the set class,
Thank you.

marta dijo...

Julio, the little drawing book..,
I couldn't agree more, the little things are usually the important ones what makes us feel happy or unhappy or what is something that we remember for life, it is in little things that we get the clue to important ones too.

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

LAURA talked to SIR PERCIVAL and told him that although she would marry him and should be a faithful wife,she wanted him to know that he would never be loved.It seems to me that unfortunately this may happen nowadays and due to that many marriages may break.Do you agree with me?

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

LAURA talked to SIR PERCIVAL and told him that although she would marry him and should be a faithful wife,she wanted him to know that he would never be loved.It seems to me that unfortunately this may happen nowadays and due to that many marriages may break.Do you agree with me?

Javier A1-D dijo...

Is Laura´s attitude to Sir Percival as fair, earnest and brave as everybody seems to believe? Doesn´t she attempt to relieve herself trough moving the entire responsability on the baronet´s side? Is such a particular way of combining feelings and social life really earnest? Which answer from the baronet did she wish the most?
Questions, just questions.

JULIAN dijo...

Hello guys, I am leaving a link where you can download the audio of the book entirely.

http://www.archive.org/details/woman_white_0811_librivox

I hope it helps you.

Most at weekend!

marta dijo...

Julio, an interesting idea... well yes, I think it might be true. Some people marry for the sake of marrying, I suppose they want to say: I got married, I did it. We have been brought up with the idea that marriage is the target. It is not every woman that wants to stay single. Nowadays things are changing and maybe less women want to marry just for the sake of it.
However Laura was stupid to marry when she realised that Sir Percival only wanted her money and then she was stupid to think that Sir Percival would break the engagement if he knew that she was in love with another man. Don't you think?

marta dijo...

Javier, I agree with you, I also think that she wanted Sir P to release her, that meant that she would have been loyal to her father and that she could marry Walter, however I think she is too stupid and even too good, to have thought of that. And how could Walter find out that she was free now that he was gone? Marian could have told him?? I don't know, but I also thought of the possibility.

marta dijo...

Julian, thank you for the link I hope that everybody download it. I am using the subjunctive, it is not that I've forgotten the s.

Laura 1-C dijo...

I have just finished read the three chapters that we have to, and I am really dissaponited with the end... I am so sad for Laura and Marian!!
At first, when Laura said that she had to be honest with Sir Percival and she would tell him her secret I thought it will be something shocked and unknown for us... but the secret was that she is in love of other man...
I think Sir Percival can imagine who is he, but he knows as well Walter is not an important problem...
Sir Percival has got all that he wants... Laura, the soon wedding and move Laura away from Marian, who distrusts in him and has a lot of influence over Laura.
Finally, I would comment that I don´t understand if Mr.Fairy didn´t like Mr. Fosco why he decided to marry her daughter with Mr. Fosco´s best friend.

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

Through the pages of her diary you can feel the suspicion which MARIAN has towards SIR PERCIVAL,especially when she happens to see him coming from TODD´S corner. Unboubtedly the name of ANNE CATHERICK is a real mystery in his lips,besides she notices his irritability as the wedding day approaches.

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

UNBOUBTEDLY---WRONG UNDOUBTEDLY-CORRECT
APOLOGICE FOR THE MISTAKE

Blanca Dueñas A1B dijo...

Blanca Dueñas A1B-
Three of the most important characters of the novel are women. Marian, Laura, and also Anne Gatherick, althoug she is always in the shadow.
All of them must submit to their guardian's wishes, or to their parents' decisions.
Rarely can a woman decide by herself about her life, in nineteenth century. There is a big diference between the rights obtained by women nowadays, and the ones they had in the novel's time. Our generation is the most fortunate in the history of women, and I expect we shall maintain this achievent.
In this story, I am sure that Laura could have changed everything, by only changing the date of the wedding, until she is of age.

marta dijo...

Laura, I have just finished reading.., I thought it would be something shocking and unknown to us.., the secret was that she WAS in love with another man.., who he is..., and moving Laura...,
An interesting comment, and with much sense too. The Mr.Fairlie who disliked Count Fosco was Laura's father, Philip, not Frederick, the one who leers at the angels.
I agree that Sir P has succeded in getting everything and in removing Laura from Limmerige he is certainly gaining as Marian has great influence over her, that is why Marian cries at the end of the chapter.
The good news is that Marian is going to live with them, but one wonders if there will be no change. The only thing that is absolutely clear is that Marian is good and devoted to Laura, and that Laura herself is good. As for Sir P it is also pretty certain that he is bad, don't you think? The mercenary marriage leaves him in a very doubtful position....

marta dijo...

Julio, undoubtedly is the name of Anne Catherick a real....
You have to write the neg adv, then the verb and then the subj. The aux is not possible as the verb inverts itself.
Yes, we are growing more and more suspicious of the Baronet and his secret specially when we are now sure that his motives for marrying are mercenary: he is only after Laura's money!

marta dijo...

Blanca, decide for herself.., until she was of age.
A very true comment. Undoubtedly is this the best epoch for women in history, when one reads a novel of this kind one realises the achievements we have gained and many of them have been thanks to the boys we have to admit. If they hadn't given us those rights we would have never got them.
That is why I think it is very enriching to read these type of novels for they make us realise truths that we are often not aware of as we never think of them.
I agree that Laura could have changed many things just by delaying the wedding, that is why Sir P wanted it as soon as possible!!

marta dijo...

Blanca, decide for herself.., until she was of age.
A very true comment. Undoubtedly is this the best epoch for women in history, when one reads a novel of this kind one realises the achievements we have gained and many of them have been thanks to the boys we have to admit. If they hadn't given us those rights we would have never got them.
That is why I think it is very enriching to read these type of novels for they make us realise truths that we are often not aware of as we never think of them.
I agree that Laura could have changed many things just by delaying the wedding, that is why Sir P wanted it as soon as possible!!

Marta P - Av. 1-F dijo...

Marta, I do not totally agree with you in woman having been granted with some rights by the boys, as I think women have conquered them by means of a reeducation of their children, especially men ones. Don't you think?
But, of course, I agree with you in that it seems extremely strikingly how women behaved in nineteenth century, how submissive and permissive they were and how they accepted their fate written by their father's (or another man) hands. But, however, I also think that nowadays we can not relax because we can take the risk of losing some rights.

Mercedes. Av 1 F dijo...

I think that it is the best epoch for women in European history. I am sure that Iranian women don´t think so. On the other hand I am very grateful to women who fought for achieve equality between the two sex. Men realized that it was fair, just like people admited that whites and blacks have the same human rights.
I also think that we have to take care of some tendencies. I don´t want to be a superwoman.

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

0n her return from her long Honey-Moon LAURA seems to be more secure than before her marriage.She still remembers HARTRIGHT and asked MARIAN if she has heard from him.Undoubtedly she hasn´t forgotten him. -------------------------------------.It is really difficult to forget whom you once loved even if you marry someone else .Do you agree with me?

Olimpia dijo...

Olimpia, AV 1C
First, I would like to say that I agree with Julio that Laura seems more secure and that she still loves Mr. Hartright. When we begin to read the Laura’s return, we realize, as Marian says, that Laura is different now. Laura seems a mature person who has just lost her childhood. When she married with Mr. Percival she was a child, and now she is a perfect woman. She begins to think about herself and decides for herself. She dares to say Laura that she prefers not to tell her something about her marriage and her husband for the sake of them. I think that it is a sign of Laura’s change.
Finally, I would like to say that I love the description that Marian do of Mr. Fosco and the description of her own feelings about him. I was very surprised because I never thought that Marian could be catch by the charm of Mr. Fosco or whatever man. Therefore, I ask myself If Laura could be fall in love with Mr. Fosco.

Mercedes. AV 1 F dijo...

Laura´s wedding was a marriage of convenience and she had to admit the situation. There weren´t many alternatives at that time, and she had accept it in her father´s deathbed. I suppose that the couple has reach a mutual agreement. However, she can forget Walter and she wants to know about him. A forbidden love is more intense than one allowed.
Is it possible that history repeats itself? I am thinking about Miss Halcombe and Count Fosco

Anónimo dijo...

I can bear the Count. He makes me nervous whith his tamed nice. Fortunately, it seems to me that Marian realizes how he is.

marta dijo...

Marta, or another man's..,
Yes women have helped to achieve those gains but we wouldn't have done it without the men. They had the power and if they hadn't granted those rights we wouldn't have them now.
For example in my case, my father was always the boss and strice, but he wanted me to study and work, he wanted me not to depend on a man, not so my mother who said that no woman in her family had ever worked! I think she thought it was a loss though now she thinks very differently!

marta dijo...

Mercedes, who fought to achieve equality between the two sexes..., that white and black people have...,
Yes I agree with what you say, specially about the superwoman! We are going to end being that. Isn't it true that now we do many more things than we used to? We have gained independence but at what cost? I still want it, but we are now doing much more work and the poor children are alone, the men still do very much what they want to, although when they divorce the settlement is often unfair with them, and we are more unsatisfied than our mothers! I'm not so sure things have turned out right for us...

marta dijo...

Julio, more sure of herself...,
A very interesting question you ask here? I don't think one forgets. In fact one hears of cases of people meeting their first loves and going back with them after years so there must be some truth in what you point out.
I think Laura is resigned and defeated by her new life.

marta dijo...

Olimpia, the description that M does of Fosco.., that M could be caught in F's charm..., could have fallen in love with Fosco..,
I don't think that Marian is in love, but I think she is impressed by his intelligence and gallantry, he is charming and M, although intelligent, can't scape from that charm. The only thing is that she realises, whereas the others don't.
I think the bad experience of her marriage has made Laura more mature, but she is still very dependent on Marian, don't you think?

marta dijo...

Mercedes, she had to accept it..,
the couple has reached..., she can't forget..,
The allure of something impossible or forbidden is great, but I think that Laura can't forget Walter because she truly loved him and it is difficult to forget one you love, don't you think? In feelings we haven't changed so much. As Julian says, one doesn't forget first love, what do you think?

marta dijo...

Anónimo, I can't bear...
I think the Count is delightful, but as Marian says dangerous. Laura doesn't like him, is she cleverer than Marian in this particular instance??

marta dijo...

Anónimo, I can't bear...
I think the Count is delightful, but as Marian says dangerous. Laura doesn't like him, is she cleverer than Marian in this particular instance??

Pablo B dijo...

Pablo B. 1A-F
Hello.
I have a dilemma with Laura, I don´t know if she is a few stupid or only She tries to seem a few stupid.
I say this because she know about Sir Percival´s black bussines, and she says to her sister that she knows something, but she doesn´t care, It´s ok...
Come on...Laura is like a doll, I would like she would do something with her life and she would change her way mind.

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

Julio carralero wishes to everybody Peace and Joy for CHRISTMAS and The NEW YEAR

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

One of the most peculiar types of the novel is count Fosco.His not so normal love for animals is shown for having taking with him to Sir Percival´s house his cockatoo,his canaries and his mice.We do not really know why both of them are so close as they seem to be entirely different.We will find out soon why that strange friendship was formed.

Marta P - Av. 1 F dijo...

Up to now, undoubtedly, the most interesting character is Count Fosco as his, apparently, two faces will give emotion to the novel, apart, of course, from Marian, who is providing such a good descriptions of the new visitors at Blackwater house and of Laura's feelings.

And, to the question asked in class (have women changed in our feelings compared to those of the 19th century?); no we haven't, but in the most basic feelings (as men haven't done). Nowadays we keep on looking for being loved and respected but the point is that we have changed the way in which our feelings are expressed and in what we expect for the others. We are not anymore weak and fragile girls.

Mercedes.Av 1F dijo...

I don´t like seeing animals in cages and I don´t like tamers. I suppose that Fosco will try to jump everyone through his hole. Surely, he acts in his own gain and this must be related with Persival´s interest. They aren´t such a great friends as they look.

marta dijo...

Pablo, a little stupid.., she knows.., I would like her to do something with her life and..,
I have the same dilemma as you, now I think that she is very stupid. How could she marry knowing what she knew? How could she endure her married life? I suppose the Victorian society thought that she was the ideal, well all I say is how lucky we are....

marta dijo...

Julio, same to you and thank you.
Yes, it does seem ackward that they get on. It must be that Fosco is horrible otherwise they wouldn't get on. Fosco seems nicer but is he? He is more dangerous than Sir Percival as he is much cleverer. Sir Percival has a character that he can`t control. That makes him less dangerous, don't you think. Fosco controls everything.

marta dijo...

Marta, double face..,
I couldn't agree more you have put it beautifully.

marta dijo...

Mercedes, I agree with you, Fosco must want something for himself or he wouldn't be there with Sir Percival. The thing is how is he going to do it and what does he want???

Laura 1-C dijo...

In the last chapter we´ve discovered the Sir Percival´s real personality, he is a very violent person not only in is way of speaking in his behaviour as well, I wouldn´t stay under the same roof than him.
We know in these chapters more about Mr. Fosco as well, I think he is the most intelligent character in the book, he can discuss about any topic, he knows what he must say and behave in any situation. He is a very interesting and experienced person but I think behind his good temperamente it is hiden the most dangerous character in the novel.

Laura 1-C dijo...

Sorry for my mistakes:
he is a very violent person not only in his way of speaking and in his behaviour as well.

JULIAN dijo...

Marta, I regret so much not attending to class today even with the commitment to set out the two chapters homework. I was food poisoning w ith a overgean lasagna which made me feel so bad. I couldn't promptly inform anyone either.
See you next day

Anónimo dijo...

Esperanza A1D
I wonder what is the reason why the last chapters remind me the current advertising against women abuse. Sir Percival and Count Fosco seem like wife batters.
By the way, is it true that W.Collins wasn't the perfect husband and that he maintained a double life? I can not find any details about his private life, but I remember in last year's novel (the Guernsey Literary and potato peel pie club) this aspect was mentioned.

marta dijo...

Laura, I agree with everything you have said about both men.

Julián I was food poisoned...,
Thank you for saying but I am seeing it now!!!!! We were waiting for you and in the end nobody wanted to summarize the two chapters!
I hope you get well soon.

marta dijo...

Esperanza, remind me of the..., wife batterers..,
But there is information about him so you will be able to find it.
Yes the way women were treated in those chapters was terrible, but not by Fosco, don't you think?

JULIAN dijo...

It calls our attention the fact on which two women are treated in that way, but we don´t have to forget these women belong to a brithish high society so working class women should have suffered so much. Anyway, I am so excited in the moment of signature. Laura refuses to sign the document under the grounds of principles since Sir Percival imposed ther to sign the document without first looking. She actually distrust her husband but she can´t reveal since she is indeed his wife and she must follow his directions according to the established.

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

The pages from 256 to 288 are really very exciting,especially when LAURA happens to see poor ANNE CATHERICK by the lake, but I found very intriguing when SIR PERCIVAL notices in LAURA´S eyes her deep attraction for WALTER HARTRIGHT as she can´t forget him at all.

Marta P. Av. 1 - F dijo...

Merry Christmas to everybody!!
I agree with you, Julian as you have give us a good point; how low class women suffered their husband's behaviour. Probably they were treated badly... as, unfortunately it happens nowadays and, sadly, in every sphere of society. However, I'm convinced that we can change this by means of education. Don't you think so?

marta dijo...

Julian, she distrusts..., she can'`t rebel...,
You are right, it is quite a surprise to see Laura in such a state. She refuses to sign without having read it, I think she has done very well considering that he was so rude to both sisters.

Happy New Year everybody!!

marta dijo...

Julio, yes it is getting better and better. How very annoying that in the end Laura doesn't find out the secret!!! How is it possible that Anne didn't tell her! And Anne is no fool thank God!

marta dijo...

Marta, I think education and example is the best to teach us all how we should behave, the only thing that I don't quite see is the low class women, where are they?
Here the ones who are treated badly are the high class ones, don't you think?

Laura 1_C dijo...

Anne Catherick has appeared in the last chapters, she is really ill but she wants to tell to Laura an importante secret before she dies. She tells to Laura that if she knows this secrets Percival could fear her, but she can´t tell her in that moment because somebody is hiden listening them, so which is that important secret?? I think we are going to wait many chapters to know it.

Iris 1-C dijo...

Anne Catherick has confessed to Laura that her husband keeps an important secret. If Laura knew this secret she wouldn’t feel threatened by him because he is afraid of this information. So far Laura is under his husband control because he already knows that Walter Hartright is the man who she is in love with, but with this information she would have more power over him. Maybe Anne Catherick was in the asylum because she is aware of it and not because of her illness. Furthermore, Count Fosco has decided to postpone the signature of the document. It is sure that he also knows Sir Percival’s secret...

Mercedes. Av 1 F dijo...

I am thinking about Sir Percival´s secret. Can Anne Catherick be his daughter? Anne knows the secret because her mother told her it. Why did she do that?
Anne´s mother is an unhappy and odd person who seems to be afraid of Sir Percival. She is poor, she is a servant and she must be grateful. In my opinion, she is one the saddest characters in the novel.
It is only a supposition. However, it is possible a link between Sir Percival conduct and "this secret".

Marta P. - Av. 1-F dijo...

I think that maybe Sir Percival's secret has to do with his honour rather than with a secret daugther, given that, in my opinion, affairs of the heart were not so important in that century for a man. Probably a cowardy attitude, a betrayed friend or a reprobable conduct are the key.

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

What is really surprising is the attitude of count and MADAME FOSCO as apparently both of them take sides with LAURA when SIR PERCIVAL treats her harshly. But cannot be denied that the couple spy the two sisters continuosly in order to keep him informed about everything they do.

JULIAN dijo...

Hello guys, I was missed for a long time...I agree wit Marta about the Sir Percival´s secret. I am not sure such a secret is related to secret daughter, in this case, Anne, but unfair or better said awkward business since he requires a huge amount of money to offset his debts. We recall he married Laura exclusively interested in her money.
See you!

Pablo B dijo...

Pablo Batanero Advanced 1-F
Hello!
It is unbelievable when The count ant The Countess supported Miss Halcombe against Sir Percival, but the most strange It was when Laura told to her sister "Don´t speak of him! (...)The Count is a miserable spy!"
I don´t know what is happened!
I am really intrigued

julio carralero-a-v-1-b dijo...

The short interviews of MARIAN and poor ANNE CATHERINE are really very intriguing.Her writing denounces they were seen by a stout old man,undoubtedly count FOSCO WHO apparently is only interested in his pets and in his music .One can perceive that he is at SIR PERCIVAL`S service.A very deceitful fellow indeed !

aleceia dijo...

I love C. Fosco, well, I mean, I don't like, he is evil , of course, but he manipulates and uses people so cleverly and elegantly ...He's the most interesting character in the novel.I'm changing my mind of him every chapter, like Marian, who, in spite of her suspicion, isn't never sure about him intentions.

Mercedes.Av 1 F dijo...

Sir Percival is worse than I thought. He isn´t aware of his behavior towards her wife. He must think that she is one of his belongings and they are in slavery times.
Fosco is more intelligent and more dangerous than him, but I can´t bear him.
Such a pedantic person have I never seen.

marta dijo...

Laura, tell somenone, not tell to...,
I fear you are right we have to wait to find out about the secret. And who is the spy??? Poor Anne, but it is a pity she beats about the bush so much.

Laura, her husband..,
The secret, the secret, that is the key! I don't think Fosco knows, don't you remember Marian saying that he looked puzzled when Sir P was telling about Anne?

marta dijo...

Iris, the second comment is for you, sorry....

Mercedes, what you say is possible, but why would Sir Percival put his daughter in an asylum?

Marta, a cowardly accion...
Yes I think it is probably something of the sort as honour was very important, but men also had to be honourable where women were concerned, if not society ostracised you.

marta dijo...

Julio, yes they are certainly on Sir Percival's side, but I think the Count wants the girls to trust him...

Julian, I have been absent..
It could be.. but what is certainly sure is that the secret is terrible as Sir Percival does not want it to be known and Fosco did not know anything about it!

marta dijo...

Pablo, the strangest thing is... what has happened...
The Count is false and as Miss H said: don't make an enemy of the count.
The truth is that it is Laura who first says that the Count is a spy and Laura who dislikes the Count, while Marian liked him....

marta dijo...

Julio, Yes Fosco is really horrible under this image that he is nice and gentle, he manupulates more than Sir Percival.

Aleceia, I don't like him.., about everything.., isn't always sure...,
Yes I agreee Fosco is the most interesting male character, he is evil! He is always there to manipulare everything and reach his ends...

marta dijo...

Mercedes, such a pedantic person is he that one can't help disliking him..,
I think Sir P thinks Laura is his property to a certain extent.., but he certainly not out of love, he is so obviously after her money it is digusting!

Anónimo dijo...

In the last chapter while I was reading the book I was stressed!! How can live Marian and Laura in that house?? Everybody is spying them! and what about the lies? They are lying many times to Fosco but he knows what they are telling him is false and they know too that he knows eveything is a lie, too complicated!! Marian knows he is evil but she has to smile him and be polite and correct with him as well, in any case Fosco influences over her and Marian who is a really strong and temperamental woman has a weaker behaviour with him... Could Marian end up like Madame Fosco totally tamed?? I don´t hope that!
Anyway, in those chapter Percival has lost his control, he has locked Laura because he thinks she knows his secret...what will be this secret?? Honestly, I can´t imagine it.

Laura 1_C dijo...

In the last chapter while I was reading the book I was stressed!! How can live Marian and Laura in that house?? Everybody is spying them! and what about the lies? They are lying many times to Fosco but he knows what they are telling him is false and they know too that he knows eveything is a lie, too complicated!! Marian knows he is evil but she has to smile him and be polite and correct with him as well, in any case Fosco influences over her and Marian who is a really strong and temperamental woman has a weaker behaviour with him... Could Marian end up like Madame Fosco totally tamed?? I don´t hope that!
Anyway, in those chapter Percival has lost his control, he has locked Laura because he thinks she knows his secret...what will be this secret?? Honestly, I can´t imagine it.

Glo dijo...

When I finshed reading last chapter, I was thinking that Marian is always thinking about the safe of her sister.
Fosco is showing his face, he is keeping an eye on the sisters. Marian knows it but sometime she forgets it and she feels good with his words.
Marian has never had a boyfriend and I think that this cause she to feel vulnerable with Fosco´s attitude.
If she doen´t worry Laura and her would have some problem in the future.

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Wilkie Collins

Wilkie Collins