The groups of level A1 are going to read this novel by Jane Austen during the course. Please join in and post your comments.
15 de octubre de 2009
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Wilkie Collins
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- EOIGoya_Inglés
- El Departamento de Inglés de a Escuela Oficial de Idiomas (EOI) "Goya" se suma con este proyecto de blog, con el blog de teatro y con su página de vídeos en YouTube a la explotación de las nuevas tecnologías como parte de la enseñanza de idiomas en la enseñanza pública en Madrid. Un cálido agradecimiento a CMF, sin cuya colaboración esto no sería posible.
Concurso 2007-08
907 comentarios:
«El más antiguo ‹Más antiguo 401 – 600 de 907 Más reciente› El más reciente»Marta, in my opinion, the conversation between Mr John K and Jane is so interesting as Mr K and Emma’s better one. Mr J K. is, as always, very realistic, and in this occasion he is also very kind. But Jane looks as if she should feel very alone, sad and a little depressed. It appears very clear in these words in chapter 34:
“You have everybody dearest to you always at hand, I, probably, never shall again; and therefore till I have outlived, all my affections, a post-office, I think, must always have power to draw me out, in worse weather than today.”
And this other quote shows us more clearly Jane’s sadness and depression:
” A pleasant Thank you seemed meant to laugh it off, but a blush, a quivering lip, a tear in the eye, showed that it was felt beyond a laugh.”
In my view, neither Mr JK’s words nor the way they had been said can we find nothing that could justify Jane’s reaction. Mr John K only had told her that ten year hence she would have a similar situation as he did. And “it was kindly said, and very far from giving offence.”
Another prove that Jane had not been affected by Mr John K’s words, but by some own problem that we don’t know, is the fact that when she was tired of Mrs Elton’s pain in the neck (as Mercedes say), instead of answering to her, she began speaking again to Mr John Knightley about the same matter.
In this last chapters I like Emma´s behavior when she is talking with Mr. Knightley and Mrs. Weston about match-marrying Jane and her reaction when Mr. K. answers that he is not in love Jane. I can imagine Emma´s face looking to Mrs. Weston and I think that in this moment Emma felt very happy to know that Mr. K followed paying visit her home as always he does. She want to follow being single because in this way she will continue to enjoy their presence at home.
Isidro, there is a factor which might explain the reason why Mr.JK.´s words affect Jane, and from my piont of view, it is the fact that Jane could feel very lonely. Sometimes, when you feel you don´t fit completely into a social circle, those comments can be very embarrassing. Besides, because of our not knowing so many things about her, and neither do the rest of the characters I dare to say, everything about her it is possible. Therefore, Jane has to "defence" or explain herself and it is that need of explanation that affects Jane.
In my opinion, Jane’s reaction reveals an emotion so intense that it can’t be caused by her lack of integration in the new circle. Moreover, remember that Mr John K is an old friend of hers and she knows most people in the meeting.
I think that Jane is very affected by Mr John K’s words because she knows that the future imagined to her by him is possible, but it is not sure, and she would be delighted that the forecast of Mr John K should be realized.
I believe she is in love with somebody we don’t know and it is possible that her love should be in danger, or perhaps she has already lost it. And I think that it is possible that the daily walk to the post office should be connected with this unknown love.
If the reality should be as I have imagined, we can understand her when she says that:
“a post office …must always have the power to draw me out, in worse weather than today”
And, as well, Jane’s intense emotion revealed in her blush, her quivering lip and her tear in the eye is fully understandable.
Belen, my last comment is connected and try to answer yours last one.
I’ve been reading chapters 35 and 36 and I want to make some comments about the hateful Mrs Elton. How can a person be so awful? she engrosses Jane and for a long time she inquiries her about her future, she tries to take part in her life or solve her problems as if she were someone important in her life, as if she were the most important person in the village. Does Jane insist on her not doing anything about her future job but Mrs Elton doesn’t mind it, she goes on and on with the same subject. Poor Jane she has to stand those kinds of people without complaining about their bad behavior. So nosy a person Mrs Elton is. Not only has she engrossed Jane but also Mr Weston after a little while. It seems that nobody wants to stay with her. Never have a read about such a stupid woman. She’s a pain in the neck. I hope not to have been too exaggerated.
Clara: you haven't been exaggerated, I agree with you, Mrs. Elton is an awful person and her husband is similar to her, and I can understand Emma doesn't like her.
Isidro, you are right when you said that Jane could be in love with somebody and it is possible she is going through a bad patch.
I think Jane is a strange character, she is a mistery, we don't know about personal matters, we don't know who is loving her or whom gives her love, what makes a novel thrilling, and if I take a character into novel that he doesn't have a love I think in Franck Churchill, I don't know if this assertion is a boldness. What do you think about this?
Sorry, I would like to correct some mistakes of mine:
We don't know about her personal matters.
I don't know whether this assertion is......
I’m amazed! On chapter 36 we can discover that the very first feminist is not going to be Emma but Mrs. Elton. Who would have said such thing before? As ever, a feminist woman always supports another woman. In this chapter we have two situations where Mrs. Elton shows us her view about the infringement of the rights of women.
On one hand, when Mrs. Elton disagrees because Mr. Weston has dared to open Mrs. Weston’s letter from Frank Churchill.
On the other hand, there is another scene that shows us the feminist feature of Mrs. Elton. I quote the passage on chapter 36 where Mrs. Elton replied to Mr. Weston respect his comments about Mrs. Churchill: "No, indeed, I shall grant you nothing.. I always take the part of my own sex. … You will find me a formidable antagonist at that point. I always stand up for women”.
Although Mrs. Elton does not like Emma too much, she seems to defend the female gender in this chapter as we have also seen in previous chapters related to Jane Fairfax.
Mercedes,a very nice character.. than to stay alone..trying to tell Jane that she is her friend.
Do you mean Mrs.Elton? there is no Mrs.Taylor, or do you mean Mrs.Weston? But Mrs.W doesn't seem pain in the neck.
I agree with you that Jane has endurance. How can she control herself?
Isidro, very lonely..
I think that Mr. JK didn't want to give offence but he created pain because she thought of her lonely future in the house of others and once her grandmother and aunt die she will be alone in the world, as she has no money she does not think of weddings, for men also wanted to marry well or marry a woman with money.
María, he is not in love with... that Mr.K would continue visiting her house as... she wantS to continue being..
Yes E is pleased not only because Mr.K isn't going to marry but also because she was right and Mrs.W wrong!
Belén,..to defend...
I agree with what you say, she must often feel very lonely, not having money and being in a group that has must be very difficult for her.
Isidro,..is connected and tries to answer yours.
You have a point and what you say is possible, really she is very unfortunate in not having any money it must be terrible not to have any!!
Clara, yes she is but on the other hand she is the only person who is trying to help Jane find a job, but I agree that she is a pest and wants to have her way too.
Mercedes, you think it is Frank that is her love?? Well it is possible but why not acknowledge it? They are both free and they belong to the same social group.
Yes I agree that Mrs.E is hateful but she has pity on Jane who is destitute more than E who does nothing to help her.
Ana it is true that she seems to stand up for her women but does she? You are sharp and it is true that there is another wink at the situation of women here!
Hi mates! I´ve just finished reading both chapters (35 and 36). And I´m angry. Who does Mr. Weston think he is? He´s very male chauvinist talking about women in this way to Mrs. Elton. Ok, I agree about she´s difficult and I don´t rely on her intentions a lot, but she is the only woman to face a man; and she is trying to help to Jane. And talking about Jane, how can she support people? Everybody knows better than her, what she should do. Or she hasn´t a strong personality or maybe, she is manilulating everybody with her apparent obliged.
What happens with Emma and Mr. K.? The end of the chapter 36 surprised me. I didn´t wait for Emma´s answer. I didn´t imagine that she could attack politely to Mr.K . Maybe, she is growing and she is more woman. What did she want to get with this attack?
I can´t leave you with mentioning Frank. He´s coming back. What will his intentions be? Because he returns quickly.
I think I´ve started to enjoy the book!
Carol, she is trying to help Jane.. her apparently obliging manner..she should attack Mr.K politely.
I'm so glad you are starting to enjoy the novel! You are right Mrs. E is the only one whom we feel is capable of fighting for women's rights if she could bother. I think Austen to make her nasty but we, in our time, think differently! I would certainly choose Mrs. E for a fight, you are very right about her and I'm glad you've written it here because I hadn't seen it in that light
Chapter 35
We know very well how Mrs Elton is. She is vain and I do not like her. She criticizes people obsessed with finery and she is not capable to see her own defects.
I think she is silly and presumptuous woman. On the other hand she is a pain in the neck for Jane Fairfax who does not have interest in finding a job and Mrs Elton wants her to work early.
Jane compares to work as a governess as to be slave. I think she is a pessimist person.
Chapter 36
In this chapter we can know once again Mr Weston’s optimistic nature.
He is always happy when his hopes come true or also when he is expecting something.
He is positive and thinks that if something wrong happens it will get better later.
Theatre
I saw two plays last week. The two plays were very different.
The first one was “the mousetrap”. I had looking forward to seeing it but it disappointed me. I was a bit bored because the performance was not very well.
On the contrary I went to see “The man of cavern” and I recommend you not to loose it.
It was a monologue and I doubted if it could be boring. Surprisingly it was hilarious, very entertaining and it made me laugh a lot.
Chapter 35
We know very well how Mrs Elton is. She is vain and I do not like her. She criticizes people obsessed with finery and she is not capable to see her own defects.
I think she is silly and presumptuous woman. On the other hand she is a pain in the neck for Jane Fairfax who does not have interest in finding a job and Mrs Elton wants her to work early.
Jane compares to work as a governess as to be slave. I think she is a pessimist person.
Chapter 36
In this chapter we can know once again Mr Weston’s optimistic nature.
He is always happy when his hopes come true or also when he is expecting something.
He is positive and thinks that if something wrong happens it will get better later.
Hi! I´ve just realized that I judge the characters easily because hardly do I put in their skin. For me, I´ve been judging them under my XXI century glance. It is difficult that I realize all limitations which they (overall women) should have had at that time. So, I´ll do the effort to empathize with them to understand them better and I´ll try not judging them by my modern mind prejudices.
Carmen, a silly woman... working as a governess...
Yes possibly she is pessimistic but her future is not very bright is it? And her family is a pain in the neck although good people.
Not to miss it, you can't lose a play. Carmen this comment has to appear in the theatre blog, please go to theatre club and you'll find it.
Carol, I don't understand the hardly sentence, it doesn't make sense. What do you mean?? I don't get in them, I don't put myself in their position.
...I'll try not to judge..
You are absolutely right we have to think of how they lived and what their circumstances were, that is the way to understand them.
Well I see no comments, here is food for thought...
What is that so important that happens in chapter 38?
Where are your comments? Remember we do this for practice
Maria was right yesterday, when she told us that Mrs Elton is the only one who is worried about Jane, she tries to do something to help Jane, the question is whether she does it because she actually is worried about her or she wants to be nosy and bossy, as she seems to be. I think there is another possibility she’s playing the role of the priest’s wife, and she feels that she has to do something for the poor young woman.
I don’t like Mrs Elton at all. Jane Austen has created it as a hateful character by putting in her behaviour such horrible manners that everybody hates her. Although in this line, she makes me think that she might be the character who is used by Austen to say things against men. We can see it in the case in which Mr Weston opens the letter addresses to his wife.
Clara, hi I`m glad there is somebody there!!! I feel I am the one who is practising more!
You are the second and that is why you write so well, no mistakes and good vocabulary use.
I think María is right as you do, Mrs. E is the only person concerned about Jane's future whatever her reasons might be. I fear they are the ones you mentioned, she is nosy and it is her way of demonstrating that she does things and is above the local people, she is the only person she helps too that we know, but at least she does something, E is really unconcerned and that is a deficiency in her in my opinion.
I must leave now I'm going out to dinner and they are coming to pick me up.
Maria was right yesterday, when she told us that Mrs Elton is the only one who is worried about Jane, she tries to do something to help Jane, the question is whether she does it because she actually is worried about her or she wants to be nosy and bossy, as she seems to be. I think there is another possibility she’s playing the role of the priest’s wife, and she feels that she has to do something for the poor young woman.
I don’t like Mrs Elton at all. Jane Austen has created it as a hateful character by putting in her behaviour such horrible manners that everybody hates her. Although in this line, she makes me think that she might be the character who is used by Austen to say things against men. We can see it in the case in which Mr Weston opens the letter addresses to his wife.
I said that about Mrs. Elton and also I remember when Mr. K. said the same to Emma when they were talking about Jane... you ought to help Jane, but, though her answer was yes. It is too much for her and she is not able to help Jane. I think that Emma feels Jane is a match for her is someone who continually has to compare and can not stand to be better than her in anything.
I wanted to say rival istead of match. I´m sorry.
Sorry, my post has been posted twice, I don't know why, I'm not very good at computer skills; this is the second time I've done it.
Thanks Marta, you're very kind to me. I hope you have had a great time at your dinner party.
In chapter 37 Emma has some doubts about the degree of Frank’s feelings towards her, but she is almost sure about hers. If their being apart had not produced a fall in Frank’s feelings about her, (she thinks he was more in love with her than she was with him,) she would have to be cautious, she would have to avoid to encourage him. She doesn’t want to be altered, she feels composed and calm now.
Generally speaking we can say that when a woman doesn’t want a man to show her his feelings of love, she was not in love with him. And she is happy because she believes Frank is less in love with her now than he was before.
I´ve just read chapter 38 and it seems to me fantastic. First I notice Frank churchil very nervous and strange with Emma. Secondly Mr. Elton´s behavior is horrible with Harriet but Mr. K. who is a gentleman, realises and led Harriet to the dance. That´s way Emma felt very grateful to Mr. Knightley and. ... The most important fact is that Emma and Mr. K. dance together, which is beautiful because when he was dancing with Harriet, Emma felt very proud of him and at the same time very sad because never did he dance with anyone.
I think it could be something new is going to hapen with them.
Hi Clara we are reading at the same time. I hope you enjoy as I did.
I also think that Mrs Elton is playing the role of the priest’s wife, but I think it is very important that we should realize that she is a step above him. In reality, Mr Elton after his marriage has become his wife’s toy. For example, we have seen Mrs Elton managing her “caro sposo” with her glances in the ball.
I would like to suggest that J. Austin use ironically the expression “caro sposo” in a double sense. Not only to highlight Mrs Elton’s snobbishness but as well to insinuate that she has bought the vicariage with all included. So, to follow with the ironically line, I would prefer to talk of Mr Elton as Augusta’s husband.
The first time we heard about the marriage of Mr Elton we found out “that he had gained a woman of 10,000l or thereabouts and he had gained her with such delightful rapidity”. But, in my opinion, the real situation was that Augusta had bought him, and he has become one of her properties, like her dresses, her pearls, her horses, or her coachman.
Finally, I think that Mrs Elton is really the only feminist character in the novel. She is the only one have we heard talking in favour of her own sex.
María,... E is always comparing herself to Jane...
You are right about what Mr.K said, thanks for reminding us of it. Mr.K sees that E should do something but she doesn't she is... a bitch?
Clara,..avoid encouraging him,
I had a nice time, thanks.
You are right, E is decidedly not in love with him, as she doesn't want to lead him on. No wonder he is a stupid man I feel exactly as Mr.K does, there's nothing about him that I like only... his money? but to suffer to live with him is not worth it, is it?
María,..I noticeD..
Yes, it is a nice thing that Mr.K does isn't it? I wouldn't have inverted the sentence it is not really necessary but you've done the inversion well. Well done, I think the dance is delightful and the way Mr.K comes to the rescue, have you noticed anything else? Something important in my opinion can be seen in that scene.
Isidro,as usual you say something interesting, don't we agree with him? Mr.E is finally seen as he really is a person without personality or charity, at least she has spirit although a pest of a woman!
I agree with Augusta's husband, what a good idea, but does "caro" mean expensive in Italian? because if not the double sense is not there, I think she says it because she is a snob and to pretend she speaks Italian.
You can't do the inversion there as only is not an adv!..the only one we have heard..
You have a point, but E talks back too and has an opinion, not a feminist but there is an embryo there. Do you agree?
There is a scene in which Emma thinks very well about Mr K, as if she started to realize what he looks like and what he is like; Emma was looking at Mr K when he was among the standers-by and she realized how young he looked, he was tall and firm, he has an upright figure, there is nobody at the party who could be compared with him, he has gentlemanlike manners and natural grace, he could dance great. Never has she seen him as she is doing now. I imagine her, by the tone of the story, in a state of a bit of sadness, since she has to force him to smile at her. It could be that she was becoming to feel something for him.
Marta, so materialistic and proud of her money appeared Mrs Elton from the beginning that some time ago I could not help thinking in the meaning of expensive, when I read the expression “caro”. I made the association supposing the common root of both languages, Spanish and Italian, but now I have looked up the meaning in the wordreference dictionary and I have discovered that one of the meanings of “caro” in English is expensive.
It would not surprise me that J. Austin, given her subtle irony, should have used deliberately this word. But, even if she did not, I think it is legitimate that a reader should use this expression to stress the mercantile aspect of Mrs Elton’s marriage.
Maria, I think it is possible that you should be right when you say that if a woman doesn’t want a man to show her, his love, it is because she is not in love with him. And I would say more: when a woman is regarding and thinking in a man while she is dancing with another, any risk of mistake do we run if we assure that she is more attracted by the second one.
During the ball, Emma was looking insistently at Mr K, and she thought about his good looking. But, what is most important to me is that when she noticed that Mr K was observing her, she didn’t feel afraid because “they seemed more like cheerful, easy friends, than lovers. So, in my opinion, it is possible that she should be feeling, without knowing it, a little more than friendship to Mr K.
Clara, I raid your last comment, when I was putting mine in the blog. I agree with you.
Clara, the dancers,stander-by is not for dancers.
I think that's what the scene means, she is suddenly that Mr.K is great, he looks young and firm, well one has to remember that young he was not, yet she sees him so and looking fantastic...I think this is the beginning of something! Or maybe not
Isidro, think of..
Well done and thank you for checking. English is a whore and it uses all the words that come in handy. Not used in everyday language it is perfect for use here. I think very probably the pun is there, although I do think that Augusta married because there was no one better, if she could have married like her sister she would have, and Mr.E is handsome and beauty is always a help, he is from a good family too, otherwise he would have never thought of proposing to E.
Isidro, what do you mean by any risk of a ...., ANY is positive so we can't invert the sentence.
..she thought about how well he was looking..
Yes, you have also noticed, she says friends but do we think the same?? Do you look at a friend and feel so proud or see him/her so attractive? E admires Mr.K as he dances, that admiration is something...
By the way have we commented how nasty Mr.E was? I just picture the two of them criticising everyone who is their inferior, not exactly priestly.
Austen's curates are always kind of negative characters with a touch of comicity.
There is only a positive one that I can think of, in Sense and Sensibility, I can't remember his name.
Mrs Elton’s ability to achieve turning the ball in her honour? What do you think about Emma’s reaction when she was relegated to the second place, when she had always thought the ball was in her honour? Where she has left her feminism?
Certenly, although very different, Emma and Mrs Elton have something in common: they intend to be the most admired. But what surprise me more of all is that Emma should come to think that, to avoid the second place, “It was almost enough to make her think of marrying”. Don’t you think it is an immature thought?
Marta: thanks for your corrections. It’s the second time you say me that ANY is positive. I hope I shouldn’t forget to use it well the next time. But how difficult is to correct a wrong habit!!
I’m sorry. I repeat my last comment because when I pasted it I did’t put the first part.
What do you think about Emma’s disappointment when she realized that Mr Weston had summoned another people to inspect the rooms, before the ball? What do you think about Mrs Elton’s ability to achieve turning the ball in her honour? What do you think about Emma’s reaction when she was relegated to the second place, when she had always thought the ball was in her honour? Where she has left her feminism?
Certenly, although very different, Emma and Mrs Elton have something in common: they intend to be the most admired. But what surprise me more of all is that Emma should come to think that, to avoid the second place, “It was almost enough to make her think of marrying”. Don’t you think it is an immature thought?
Marta: thanks for your corrections. It’s the second time you say me that ANY is positive. I hope I shouldn’t forget to use it well the next time. But how difficult is to correct a wrong habit!!
I didn't put the first part........
What surprise me most.....
Isidro, where has she left...what surprised/s...how difficult IT is to correct a...
You are absolutely right about mistakes, one has to memorize or repeat a lot to get rid of them.
I also think that are right about Mrs.E and E they both want to shine and be the first, I'm glad that E for one had to be second to somebody!! A good lesson for her
Isidro, where has she left...what surprised/s...how difficult IT is to correct a...
You are absolutely right about mistakes, one has to memorize or repeat a lot to get rid of them.
I also think that are right about Mrs.E and E they both want to shine and be the first, I'm glad that E for one had to be second to somebody!! A good lesson for her
Isidro, where has she left...what surprised/s...how difficult IT is to correct a...
You are absolutely right about mistakes, one has to memorize or repeat a lot to get rid of them.
I also think that are right about Mrs.E and E they both want to shine and be the first, I'm glad that E for one had to be second to somebody!! A good lesson for her
I'm sorry I posted my other message three times!!! Something went wrong with the connexion. Anyway as to your second post Isidro,...had summoned another person, people is plural...
I see that something happened to you too with the computer!!!
Well I'm glad I'm not the only one.
I see no posts where is your practice??????
Hi! I agree with Isidro. Emma has always been the first in everything and she was the main character in all social events and for her friends but now, she´s fighting against Mrs. E ans she is used to fight in "first league" so she´s a difficult enemy. But I think it´s good for E. because she´s learning that not always is everything how we like and I wish she would mature and become a "good woman".
I was thinking Emma doesn´t mind to take the second place in the dance because she is thinking in other thing and I believe that all is not what it first appears to be and Emma is not able to compare with Mrs. Elton, that´s way instead of thinking that she has second place at the dance, she is watching the rest of the people that are in the ball. For instance she was admiring Mr. knightley that it is a pity didn´t like dancing and Harriet who didn´t have partner for the last two dances and a lot of thing more.
Ana, in chapter...,as always a feminist always stands by...,
You are very right and thanks for the quote it is perfect. I agree Mrs. E is the fighter and the feminist, but don't you think that Austen dislikes this? She makes Mrs.E disagreable probably because a woman with those ideas was looked down on at the time. However if I had to fight for a cause I would certainly choose Augusta and not Emma to help me, Emma is not a fighter, she points out ideas but does not really fight for them.
I cannot agree more with all of you about Mr.E.´s behaviour which started, from my point of view, as an indifference proof with the only aim of his ignoring Harriet but it became into a rude and awkward situation because of the good intentional Mrs.W.´s pressure.
As to Mr.K., he is going to be looked at on a different way by Emma since this ball on, as you know. While I was reading this passage, I could only think about Emma. She has been thinking about this ball since Mr. Ch. promised her the first dance, and now, when that expected moment arrives, she focuses her attention on Mr.K. in stead of enjoying it!! Don´t you think that if she had actually wished that moment, and not only thought about their image dancing or whatever people might think, she would´ve looked at Mr. Ch.´s eyes (for instance)and not at Mr. K.? However, although we easily understand the meaning of this, I believe Emma is not aware of its consequence. Besides, the beginning of next chapter insists this by using expressions like :"gave Emma considerable pleasure" or "extremely glad". Maybe it´s because I am very fond of Mr.K. but I´d like to read a future of these two. We are going to be witnesses to the developing of the events!Don´t you think reading is amazing??
Belén, in a different..,insists on thi...
A very good comment and very true too. I also think E is not aware of the fact that that way of looking might mean more than she actually realises. What surprises me continually is that although described as clever she is always putting her foot in and she is more often that not, unaware of what's going on aroumd her or even inside her!
I agree with you too on the magic effect of reading.
I was thinking Emma doesn´t mind to take the second place in the dance because she is thinking in other thing and I believe that all is not what it first appears to be and Emma is not able to compare with Mrs. Elton, that´s way instead of thinking that she has second place at the dance, she is watching the rest of the people that are in the ball. For instance she was admiring Mr. knightley that it is a pity didn´t like dancing and Harriet who didn´t have partner for the last two dances and a lot of thing more.
Acording we talked yesterday I think that you fall in love of a person who is diferrent from the rest of the people you know under your point of view and this is what is hapen to Emma. Although she know Mr. K. since a long time until now she doesn´t realise that she has in front of her a diferrent man who she admired for his qualities that always he has had but now seem to be larger than before. I agree with both of you reading is wonderfull.
María, E doesn't mind taking..thinking about some..,compare herself to..,that is why...,it is a pity that he didn't like dancing...,a partner..,and a lot of other things.
Yes, it is true that she had time to look around but the admiration for Mr.K is there and I think that is a sign, don't you?
María, according to what we said yesterday...,you fall in love with...,what has happemed to E...,she knowS..,that he has always had but now seemS to be better than before..,
I think that the clever E is so stupid as not to realise that!
The first step is that she sees him as attractive but that is just it, don't you think so?
I don't think she loves him, she just admires him I agree that sometimes you don't realise that the best person for you is right there.
María and Marta, I agree with you, perhaps Emma should be beginning to fall in love with Mr K, but she doesn’t know it yet, because she always has seen him as an older brother who often criticizes her.
Until now, she has been attracted by Frank Churchill who, as well, have assured her the prominence she likes so much in their meetings and above all in their balls. But henceforth, it is possible that she should realize that dancing is not so interesting if your partner is not the person you love. So at the last ball she couldn’t stop looking at Mr K while she was dancing to Frank, and “she wished he could love a ball-room better”.
Now, it looks as if Emma doesn’t care about Frank’s feelings. Even we can see in chapter 39 that she begin to speculate about the possibility of something interesting should arise between Frank and Harriet, after he rescued her from the gipsies.
So, from now on, it is possible that we should see a new relationship between Emma and Mr K in which the love could play an important place. At least, I think so now. Don’t you?
In chapter 40 we discover that Harriet have decided to break all affective relation with Mr Elton. She declares to Emma that she can see nothing at all extraordinary in him now, and she destroys in front of Emma “the most precious treasures” she had hidden as a tie with Mr Elton.
And finally, when Emma thought in the possibility of Mr Churchill should replace Mr Elton in Harriet’s heart, Harriet told her that she would never marry. What a surprise!...Another feminist??....No, no, it’s a joke.
When Harriet said to Emma that her decision was in relation with a person very superior to Mr Elton, it is curious that neither of them dares to pronounce the name of Mr K. Even Emma says: “Let no name ever pass our lips”.
I think that it is a delicate moment because Emma knows she have mistaken one time and she could make another mistake now. But in this case the situation is more complicate because there is a cross of sentiment: Harriet’s, Mr K’s and her own sentiments. So, Emma tries to take the difficult neutrality, and she says: “I shall never speak to you again on the subject. I am determined against all interference. Henceforward I know nothing of the matter. Let no name ever pass our lips.”
Knowing how gossip and manipulative Emma is, I think that she has decided not to risk because she Knows that Mr Knightley would be very upset, if he discover that himself have been object of her manipulations. But she has decided to be very cautious, above all, because her own sentiments are involved.
Isidro, who as well has...,she beginS, you are forgetting it again, DON'T....of something interesting arrising, gerund after prep.,
Yes I think there is a strong possibility of that happening if E realises it is love and Mr.K doesn't find himself in love with somebody else but there is no indication that that should happen is there?
Isidro, H haS decided,..E thought OF..,of MR.CH's replacing, gerund after prep... E knows she haS...is more complicateD..,what a goosip and how manipulative E is..., not to take risks..,
What is this business about H being in love with Mr.K? How do you know if no names are mentioned between them?
What really exasperates me about E is that she never tells H that she has made a great mistake with Mr.M.
Hi!I´ve just read chapters 39 and 40. I enjoyed them a lot, and I´m happy of commenting them in class. Finally something exciting happens in chapter 39 with Harriet and gypsies. And chapter 40 it´s so funny! Harriet is so inocent... and how Emma is... she can´t control herself so she perfects her technique.
Marta., I would like to say "I don´t usually put myself in their position with an inversion, but I did it wrong, sorry.
Acording to what I wrote yesterday I would like to ask you sorry for my mistakes . I try to write as much as I can because I think that it is the best way to correct it, Thoug it is very difficult for me to get it . But I´ll try again and again until I get it. Now I am reading next chapter later I´ll try to write about.
Marta, I believe that Harriet is alluding to Mr K when she says to Emma, in chapter 40: “it is a pleasure to me to admire him at a distance- and to think of his infinite superiority to all the rest of the world”…(…..)..””it was such an inexpressible obligation!-The very recollection of it, and all that I felt at the time- when I saw him coming-his noble look- and my wretchedness before. Such a chance! From perfect misery to perfect happiness”
I believe that when Harriet says this, she is thinking in the moment in which Mr K is leading her to the set of the ball at the Crown, after the rudeness of Mr Elton.
She could also allude to the moment in which Frank recues her of the gipsies, but I think that in this case the sensation would be of relief but not of perfect happiness.
Marta, it’s truth that Emma doesn’t has recognized her mistake with Mr M. But, at least, I think she has matured a little, because she has already admitted to Harriet her mistake with Mr Elton.
Carol, chapter 40 is so funny..,and how is E..,
You mean: not often do I put myself in their position?
I also think that it is sweet to see her with her treasures, very silly too but don't you think that all women practically do the same?
There is something we always treasure in our hearts
María, to say sorry for...to correct them...,
Don't worry at all for your mistakes, the only way to correct them is to go on practising you are very right and I think you are a great gain for the blog as you post so much, so keep at it you are improving!!
Isidro, she is thinking OF,. Mr.E's rudeness...,rescues her from..,
I think you have grasped the idea and you are perfectly it must be Mr.K, also the fact that clever E thinks it is Frank must immediately make us think it is somebody else as she is always wrong!
Isidro, it is true that E hasn't admitted her mistake...,
You can't put DO with HAS, an auxiliary is always followed by an inf without to, careful.
Yes, it is true, but let's face it the damage that she did she doesn't mend thinking of Frank as a possible candidate, she stills errs.
And how about poor silly H now looking up, very modestly, to the superior of the lot: the rich landowner? That is partly E's fault too as she has made her think that all that was possible as Mr.K said to her.
Hi everybody,
Chaters 38, 39 y 40 remind us that Harriet is who is suffering E´s erros, but for me also they are H´s. If she loved Mr. Martin, she would regret about having refused him instead of having loved Mr. E. Moreover, she´s thinking of another supiror gentleman and she does it by her own.
Of course, if E. had not interfered, H. would have married Mr. Martin, and she would have been happy.
Perhaps the lesson is for both, it is bad to decide others people´s life and also to leave that someone decides your future.
Maria, I don't agree with you. I don't think Harriet was conscious she loved Mr. Martin, she is dominated by E. that way she fell in love with Mr. Elt., she is keeping Mr. Elt's relicks like a treasure and E. is astonished when she knows about this.
But is interesting when H. says that she is never going to marry with a strong determination, because she is affronted by him.
With respect to Isidro's opinion about H is thinking in M.K. I believe Emma is thinking in Mr. F.Churchill.
In my opinion, Isidro, Emma doesn't want to interfere on this new plan because she wasn't succesful in her previous participations and she had recognized it and on the other hand she made a promise to Mr. K. she won't interfere more in this subjects .
María, the one who...,on her own...to let someone decide for you.
You are very right, H is very silly and she shouldn't have let E convince her, but E is worse because she knew that H was very influencial!
Mercedes, IT is interesting when..., thinking OF...,
You have a point about E saying that she is determined not to interfere this time, but I think she is interfering too by not interfering in a way.
You also have a point in saying that H was not aware of being in love, she is too silly. But I believe that if E would not have interfered she would have married Martin
Hi!Marta, I would like to thank you for correcting my mistake. This is what I wanted to say. And I absolutely agree with you. Harriet is so cute! Keeping this kind of treasures might be silly but everybody does it, overall, when we are teenager and in love with someone. This kind of things become importants though they haven´t material value.
And Isidro, you opened a new door to me, because I´ve never thought Harriet was talking about Mr.K, I thought she was talking about Frank, but maybe.. she was talking about Mr.K. What surpise!This direction is very interesting, in my opinion.
I agree with all of you in your saying about how cute Harriet is. I think she is like that, but also this could be due to the time she’s living. At that time women had a few stimulations so they keep themselves in a state of naivety that allows them to be in that way. I think nowadays these kinds of things are done by our little teenagers, between 12 and 14 years old, not at the age of Harriet. Life has changed so much in all these years.
If Harriet is talking about Mr K we have a good mess in front of us, mainly after our reading about what E says about him two chapters before.
Mercedes, in my opinion, Emma and Harriet hadn’t had occasion of speaking about the events at the Crown’s. The last time that Harriet had been at Emma’s house was the day of her encounter with the gipsies, in which she was very affected by the terrible fright.
In my opinion, Harriet’s decision of destroying her treasures is connected with the events at the Crwon’s balls. She had idealized Mr. Elton, and she had continued thinking he was a worthy and admirable person, in spite his marriage. But after Mr Elton's slight and disdain she was definitely cured.
After destroying her secret and sentimental ties, Emma asked Harriet if her decision of not marrying was because of her frutration in relation with Mr Elton, and Harriet confessed that, after knowing Mr Elton’s littleness, she realized that he didn’t merit her attention.
I think that she didn’t change of context when she said that she had passed “from perfect misery to perfect happiness”. I believe that when she said: “I saw him coming – his noble look –“, she was thinking in Mr Knightley, whose kindness encouraged her, in a moment in which she was ashamed by Mr Elton’s public disdain.
I think that J. Austen here plays with a certain ambiguity, because it is easy to think in Mr Frank Churchill’s approaching to her when she was being attacked by the gipsies. But, I believe that Harriet was so frightened and horrified in this moment, that she couldn’t see Frank approaching her, and above all, she didn’t was in disposition to distinguish his “noble look”.
As well, I think that J. Austen, who knows very well the human psychology, can’t associate with the moment of her rescue a sensation of perfect happiness. The day of Harriet's encounter with the gipsies, when she arrived at Emma's house, in spite of having passed much time, only had Harriet mood to sink into a chair fainted away. So, in my view, this sensation corresponds better to the image of Mr K. leading her to the ball.
In spite of...
So, in my view, this sesation of perfect happiness...
I'm sorry.
I don´t know if Harriet is thinking about Mr. K. or about Mr Churchil, when she is talking to Emma. But I think that Emma is very concerned because she is thinking that Harriet could be talking about Mr. Churchil and Emma doesn´t want to say his name because she is afraid of being confused again as she before did.
María, it might be possible that E be or afraid of telling something about a new H's prospective partner, but in my humble opinion she's already thinking of Mr K, and so she prefers to chose F, not only for that but also because he has behaved like a hero, and this is very amazing for these women that don't have thank God this sort of events.
...it might be possible that E be afraid of telling...
Well Clara maybe you are right but I say that thing because I can´t imagine Harriet with Mr. K. and that is why I believe that Emma is thinking in Frank and not about Mr. K., because I think that this match is imposible but let me to continue reading and I will answer you.
I wanted to say Emma is thinking of Frank.
Carol,become important, adj sg.,yes Isidro is an asset, he has good ideas, don't you Isidro? Quite a critic you are!
Clara,they kept themselves...that allowed them..,the past is better since you are talking about the past,ok?
We are certainly in for it if that be the case a complete mess!
Isidro, you are becoming quite an asset at catching things and posting your analysis, aren't you?
..in spite OF..,change the scene...,to think OF...,she wasn't in the mood, the verb to be never takes DO..,and pass away...,
You have made your point very nicely and one has to think that you may very well be right, so as Clara says a mess
María, I think E is thinking about Frank Churchill, read again, I don't think it is Mr.K, one should think that after the shock of the children's attack she must be talking about Mr.Churchill, the hero who saved her, but Isidro has another version which is possible
Clara, one of H's new beaus...,
It might be what you say but I think that the clever E is just unable to see thing straight or differently from the way she'd like them to be. She doesn't think of Mr.K because Frank is a very good option now that Mr.E is married and she herself has decided she doesn't want him.
María, E is thinking OF..,let me continue reading.., inf without to after LET in that construction as a subjunctive, ok?
Well done for correcting yourself, and same to all those of you who have done it.
I think both matches are rather impossible, Mr.K could marry whoever he choses as he is rich and independent, but he said that H was good for Mr.M, that she did very well with him. I don't think he would fall in love with her, though he says he thought better of her after the dance.
Frank Churchill needs his uncle's consent to marry so he is not free to choose.
I've been thinking about MrK and I imagine him as the kind of man I'd like to marry with. Why is he single? He is old enough to be married and have several children. This is so strange a thing, isn't it? Does he have an impossible and secret love? I hope so; this would make the story much interesting. Never have I read a book in this way, when I begin to read a novel I very often can't put it down what have as an advantage that I finish it so soon and I know the whole story sooner than in this way, so I use much more my imagination, the more we talk about the book the more I can imagine different options for each situation. It's fun.
I think it's the first time I'm writing about Emma. I'm beginning to love this book, now we are in chapter 51. I love also Mr. Knithley, he is the best for the moment. When we speak about Emma's novel we are always talking about novel's women. What about novel's men? Marta, I hope I've done well my first writing int he blog.
EMILIA WROTE. because I don't know how to put my name.
Sorry, but now I'm only trying to write with a name.
Clara, much more interesting..,what has..,my imagination much more..,
I'm glad you like reading like this, for a change, well really we are using the novel as a book to study with.
I agree about Mr.K he is an ideal kind of man why hasn't he married? I wonder... there are quite a few girls around at the moment so he might find one, men sometimes marry late, they don't have a bad live being single. My father for instance was one of those and he has often regretted it I`m afraid...
Emilia, when we think about the novel EMMA...,we are talking about women's novels...men's novels?,my first post in the blog well.
Hello Emilia, better late than never.I'm glad you finally like the novel. If you are in chapter 51 don't say anything about what happens,ok?
Why not a novel that is not specifically for women? Because once in a lifetime I think we deserve reading something that is for us, we are the losers always so once in a while they have to suffer a bit and this year was that time.
They might suffer more with Dickens.. you never know!
Isidro, first of all, I would like to tell you that I take off my hat about your opinions, they are so accurate, you write very well and you are very convincing with yours expressions, so I tell you ¡YOU ARE RIGHT¡¡¡¡¡¡¡.
I appreciate so much your and Clara's post because I learn trough them, of course I learn too the other posters but I draw me attention your writings are great, and of course thanks Marta because you give us this oportunity to improve our English, (It souns like if I will want to suck up to you, but it is not my intention).
Secondly,from the chapter 40 matters are changing, I think the plot is starting to run.It is thrilling when Mr.K. is beginning to suppose the relationship between Fr. Chuchil and J. F.
I am sorry, (it sounds...)
Mercedes, thank you for being so kind to my last post. I also appreciate yours a lot. It is fantastic that we should have the opportunity of swapping opinions about a good novel. As you know, all of us are very thankful to Marta because the blog is an extra work to her. It is a reality that Spanish people, in general, are less polite than English, so though we have comment frequently she works very much and very well, we haven’t said it to her enough. Therefore, I believe that it is good that you should have shown yours thankful to her, because the general tendency is not to do it by the reason you have given.
I'm soory. Your thanks.
I'm sorry
Marta, you have written 'they don't have a bad LIVE being single' in your post. I'd have written LIFE, as I suppose I'm wrong, could you tell me why is it like that? I know the expression LIVE MUSIC but in this case I don't know why.
I think all men, more than once along their lives, regret to have got married, but it isn't as serious as it could seem, I don't know why, but they always marry again after their divorce or their women's death, or start to live with another woman. For women things are different, in most cases they don't repeat, which is not luckily faced with having another affair.
I can't help thinking in the Crown's ball. How much I like J. Austen's irony! I think that all people were out of place, don't you? Mrs Elton dancing to Mr Weston after trying to dance with Mr Frank Churchill and giving meaningful glanced to Mr Elton, who wandered as a dog let off his leash, without achieving to dance neither with Mrs Weston nor to Mrs Gilbert, and prefering to make a fool of himself to dance with Harriet.
Emma, at first, was a little disappointed of being relegated to the second place and she thought that it was worth being marriet only to not be relegated. And later, while she was dancing with Mr Elton, she was continually regarding and thinking in Mr Knightley.
And what about Mr Frank Churchill? Who is the object ob his thouhgts and dreams? What do you think of his role? In my opinion he is the worst of them. He is always intending attract attention. I agree with Mr K's opinion about him: he is a trifle fellow. Mr K is the only really gentlement whose we could say handsome, clever and rich.
how muh do I like!
I think that Frank Churchil is not a secure person who try to attract attention and that is why always go close to Emma because she is an important person in this place and it worth to be Emma´s friend, though he were an important person, because he belong upper class as Emma is.
Mercedes, your expressions..,I learn too from other...,but your posts draw my attention greatly..,
Thank you for your words, I know you are not sucking up to me, I know you mean it and I'm sure that Isidro must be thrilled, I see him tomorrow so I'll tell everybody that he is the star of the blog!!!
I agree that the novel is getting quite thrilling.
Isidro, we have commented..,shown your gratitude.., not to do it for the reasons you...
Thank you so much for your comment too, I'm so glad you appreciate it!!
I enjoy reading all your comments and if you ask me I honestly tell you that writing here is one of the best exercises you can do both for writing skills and because it makes you think in English more than when you write an essay.
Clara, I am wrong, you are right I don't know why I wrote it maybe it is a printing mistake. Sometimes I go so quickly that I don't realise and often I don't check, maybe there was another mistake in what you wrote and I wasn't concentrating on life.
You know spelling is not my forte but there I have no doubts, so a misprint or abscence of mind.
I agree with you about what you say, I suppose that men feel tied and probably once they have tried the married life they often regret having lost their freedom.
Nowadays women feel like that too but we are not so desirous of freedom maybe, I don't know.
Isidro, thinking OF..,dancing with..,than to dance with Harriet..,looking and thinking of...,to attract attention..,only gentleman of whom we could say was...
A very good picture of the ball and I couldn't agree more with what you say I think Frank is the worst, maybe he is not bad at heart as Mr.E seems when he snubs H, but he is selfish spoilt and a sucker, he is inmature too and probably a liar or dishonest
María, do you mean an honest person who trieS, the antecedent is 3rd person singular.
..and that is why he goES...,and it IS worth being E's...,though he IS and important person and belongS TO THE upper..,
Don't forget the s or the subject,ok?
Yes she is always around E one wonders why?
Chapter 41 is quite confused. On one hand, it seems to have a great complicity or a hidden understanding between Emma and Frank Churchill. They use a child’s play to shame Jane Fairfax. The three people know (Does Emma really knows it?) the particular meaning of words as blunder and Dixon. On the other hand, Mr. Knighley suspects that Frank Churchill is playing his own double-dealing: not only does he perceive that Frank Churchill is interested in Emma, but he also notices some symptoms of attachment or admiration between Mr. Weston’s son and Jane Fairfax. When Mr. Knighley asks Emma about this likely admiration, Emma denies it categorically. I would strongly recommend Emma that she should consider the matter. Mr Knighley is a very experienced and extremely clever man. And finally, what do you think about Mr. Frank Churchill’s dream?!!!!
thanks Marta,
I don't want to suck up to you, but I'm amazed, you work very hard every day. I have all the corrections you've done about my posts in my pc. If I were capable to learn them by heart, I'd write great. I'm trying.
Laura, quite confusing..,there seems to be great complicity..,does E really know..
A very good comment it is true that E is blind, if Mr.K sees it why does she consider it so absolutely impossible? And she also says she can answer for his not being in love with Jane!!!!
Well what do you think? In my opinion it means that there seems that somebody is writing to Frank for how he can know otherwise???
Anónimo, thank you for saying thank you. I hope I do my work professionally and I am very happy that you appreciate it and with your participation and well-doing. I really believe that posting is one of the best things you can do for your writing.
Repeat, repeat, repeat, that is the only way and use memory too, but you already have a good level otherwise you wouldn't be able to follow the novel and you must keep it up.
I forgot to answer the question about Frank Churchill he seems a scoundrel more than ever! He makes fun of Jane and yet it seems to Mr.K that he is after her! A scoundrel, I agree with Mr.K he couldn't be worse!!! What's so fantastic about him? And E thinks he is nice too that is enough to make one doubt
Things are getting more and more interesting. We must trust in Mr K’s accurate judgments, but I find difficult to believe his suspects. How is it possible that Mr K. should have seen a special look at Miss Fairfax and symptoms of admiration and intelligence between Frank and Jane? I always had thought that there had something hidden in Frank’s behavior, but I believed it was something connected to Mr Dixon. However, it might be that I should have been mistaken by Emma’s imagination.
I think that Frank Churchill has always misbehaved with Jane. Even Emma has believed sometimes that Frank was inconsiderate with Jane and she has thought that it was necessary to talk in her favour. I think that Frank always needs attract attention captivating the most attractive lady of the meeting, so as Emma is not there, he fixes his target on Jane. Therefore, it’s possible that the symptoms of admiration that Mr. K has seen should only be a temporary caprice.
I clarify my last comment: but I believe it was something connected to something he knew about the relationship between Jane and Mr. Dixon.
I’m sorry.
Hi! I haven´t read chapter 41 and 42 yet. But talking about E. and H. Isidiro, do you think E. is thinking of Harriet´s love is Mr K? I think she believes he is Frank. Firstly because it´s more interesting for the plot one confusion with them, isn´t it? And the proof, in my opinion, is in the chapter 39 when E. says "Such an adventure like this - a fine young man and a lovely young woman thromw together in such way, could hardly fair of suggesting certain ideas to the coldest heart and the steadiest brain" I think it´s obviously and E. doesn´t have any suspicion about F, like us, to think "noble" word it´s only to talk about Mr. K. What do you think E. is thinking about?
I would like to add one detail to proof the haughty character of E. : she thinks she has "the true" and there are no more points of view and her power over her manipulated friend. At the of the chapter 40 her friend kissed her hand submissively and gratefully, then she thought about this attachment would be better for her because it´d save her for her degradation. Oh, my God!
Yesterday you wrote about Mr K’s ideas of Frank and the feelings he provokes him. I think he’s sensible and intelligent, and he has thought through Frank’s behavior. First of all, he has observed him while they have been together in different situations, and then he gave his own opinion. All you have said about Frank is true; according to his behavior he seems to be a scoundrel and to be taken advantage of E. But I prefer to think that there is something behind his behavior, in all his comments he appears like a person who is enjoying with everybody in the village an in every situation, he likes being there, do you think that if he were a bad person he would want to stay with them without doing something bad? Because up to now he has done nothing interesting, he only pretends to be in love with E, and Mr K has caught out him.
Agree!!!All your posts are exciting!! If we keep on reading between the lines as we have done so far we´ll find out the end of the story before Austen´s telling us!!! I also think Mr.Ch. is hiding things, I´m distrustful about Jane´s paino stuff because it was recieved after Mr.Ch.´s mysterious visiting hairdresser´s in London and we´ve never talked about that again or the fack that he came back to attend to the ball acting on a very nervous way. He has deceived everybody because they already had a preconceived idea of how he should´ve be or behave and Mr.K. is the only one, as usual, who sees deeper and, as Clara has said, who is able to find out hidden things or feelings by observing people. It is possible that, because of the fack that Emma is sometimes our omnisciest narrator, we might be mistaken about these things; Thank God we´ve got you, Isidro!!
Ei mates!!!! I am really sorry about writing FACK instead of FACT all the time!! Please, do not think ill of me, I´ve changed the last consonant and not the vowel...ha ha!
Carol, I agree with you. Emma’s imagination sees something that not exists at all between Frank and Harriet. Only a blind person cans see a love affair or a “perfect happiness” in a situation in which Harriet is absolutely pitiful. But curiously, Emma’s declaration cans easily mislead the readers. So, when Harriet talks thinking in Mr K, Emma is thinking in Mr Frank Churchill; and some readers thing in the first and others in the second. This is the ingenious play of Jane Austin. It is not fantastic?
I'm sorry.
To think of......to think of......to think of
To think about....
Jane Austen leads us surprice in surprice. What a discovery!!!!!!! In one of my last comments I said that I didn't believe that Mr K were rigth to suspect understanding between Frank and Jane, but now I have just discovered that I had mistaken.
After reading the passage of the game of words, I'm convinced that Mr K is right and there is some understanding between Frank and Jane. In another comment I'll explain the reason of my swap of view. But know, I only want to say that Mr K's allusion at Mss Fairfax's special look in last chapter reminds me another Frank Churchill's odd look that took Emma's attention. Don't you remember? I wrote a comment about this the 31 january. In my opinion, that look wasn't a look of surprise because of Mss Fairfax's "outrée" hairstyle, as Mr Frank said, but a look of fascination. I think that the look that Emma saw was similar to the one Mr K has seen, the only difference is that Mr K grasped the meaning and Emma doesn't.
Isidro I don´t think that Frank Churchil may have misbehaved with Jane because his behavior till now has been as friends. I believe that has been Emma´s mind that has created everything else.
I wanted to say another important thing. From my point of view Frank Churchil has not had a dream. It is something that Jane has told him in some of her letters, because first he thought that was Mrs. Weston, but she has not been, and now he has been surprised by Mr. Knightley. I think that he doesn´t remember well and now he say that it was a dream.
María, I don't have said that Frank Churchill has misbehave with Jane. I just have said that there is an understanding between them.
Isidro I´m sorry I didn´t undertand well.
Oh dear! Now I understand the double game of Mr Frank Churchill. It is so crazy that nobody could imagine! Mr K. had said since the first moment he was a trifle fellow, but now we discover that he is a foolishness fellow in the highest degree.
Now I understand all. In this moment it is possible to tie up the loose ends. But it is necessary that we should begin since the first moment when Frank arrived at Hightbury. I think that it is very interesting clarify a lot of dark point. Belen A1d has imagined something interesting about the piano. I agree with you.
The next time I’ll say some strange behaviours of Frank than now we can understand better. Belen has discovered one. María has discovered another one. But we don’t know if she imagines or if she really knows.
María, I agree with you. Jane had told Frank that Mr Perry was going to by a carriage, but the problem is that you don’t prove it. I won’t tell the proof, because I would like that you should say it.
was going too buy a carriage.
to buy.
Isidro, when Frank talks about his dream, he’s trying to conceal he got another letter from somebody who knew and told him the news, this is clear, but after Miss Bates’ conversation I think the letter was from Jane. It was Jane that told him about the Perries’ carriage, despite her aunt saying she is not like J, because she could let a thing escape her, she wishes she were.
When Frank Churchill was paying his first visit at Hartfield he said that he was acquainted whit a lady whose family of the name of Fairfax, although the proper name of the family is Barnes or Betes. Since the first moment Frank tried to attach importance to Miss Bates in order to play down the importance of his relationship with Jane. As well, he talked of Miss Fairfax’s ill looking and her most deplorable want of complexion, and so on…… As well we must take into account the complicity of both (Frank and Emma) about the insinuations in connection with Dixon’s family.
Frank’s attempts of relegating Jane sometimes have been ridiculous. For example, when in chapter 29 they were at Crown inspecting the rooms, Frank’s incongruity exasperated his father as we can see in this passage:
“Suppose I go and invite Miss Bates to join us?................. (……….)……………………………....... Aye, d, Frank-Go and fetch Miss Bates……….But, fetch them both. Invite them both.
Both, sir! Can the old lady?
The old lady! No, the young lady, to be sure. I Shall think you a great blockhead, Frank, if you bring the aunt without the niece.”
I'm sorry.
with a lady whose family of the name of Fairfax, although the proper name of the family is Barnes or Betes,lives close to here.
Aye, do, Frank. Go and fetch....
What do you think about the arrival of Mr Frank to Mr K’s house and his bad mood?
Emma’s thought in that moment was this: “I’m glad I have done being in love with him. I should not like a man who is so soon discomposed by a hot morning”
In my opinion, Frank wasn’t out of humour because of the heat. I believe that Frank was hiding again his real thoughts and feelings in order to deceive Emma. He didn’t want that Emma should think that his bad mood was connected with Jane, so he said when he arrived “You will all be going soon I suppose; the whole party breaking up. I met one as I came. Madness in such weather! absolute madness!”
Do you think that it is normal the way of talking of Jane?: “I met one” !!!!!!!!!!!!
Frank has always kept at a long distance of Jane in order to hide his affective relationship with her. That day he achieved that Emma shouldn’t think that he had been talking with her, but in my view he met her on the way and they had an argument. I think that Jane had enough reason to be upset. Don’t you?
I'm sorry:....Do you think that is normal the way of talking.
Do you think that Frank's way of talking of Jane is normal?
With regard to the espionage Mr K is carrying out on F’s behaviour, don’t you think Mr K is starting to feel as if he were in love with E? For instance, a scene in which I can see this is they had been playing with some letters to build or to find out words and after Mr K and E were left on their own, when their friends left the tea party, Mr K wanted to know how a word could be entertaining to E and distressing to J. Embarrassed as E was she didn’t want to answer him the truth, and told him that it was a joke among themselves. The answer he gives gravely to E was that the joke seemed confined to her and Mr Ch, and as she doesn’t answer anything a variety of evils crossed his mind... he thinks she is in love with F. so, what about his feelings?
I see, on the one hand Isidro is sure that F.Ch.is match with J.F. and the other hand, Clara thinks that Mr. K could be in love with E., from my point of view since the chapter 41 the events are developing quickly, Mr. K supposes there is a relationship between F.C and J.F., so when Mr. K. wants to know about the letter that E. went out and both of them J.F and Mr. C, are feeling embarrased, Mr.K is trying to know about their relationship, but same as in other ocassions E. is never right, and she says:"there is no admiration between them, I do assure you".
Clara, in your last comment you talk about the conversation between Mr K and Emma. Following the same line that you, a little later in the same conversation Mr. K is much more explicit and said Emma directly:
“I have lately imagined that I saw symptoms of attachment between them….”
After this, “Emma spoke which a confidence which staggered, with a satisfaction which silenced, Mr K.”, who got too much irritated for talking.
In my opinion, it is not normal that the perfect gentleman should be so irritated without a strong reason. In this conversation Mr K tell Emma his opinion about the relationship between Frank and Jane; and Emma disagree with him. The matter is not so important to provoke Mr K’s irritation, so I believe that his owns feelings are involved.
As well Jane Austin seems stress this idea with her characteristic delicacy, when she says at the end of the chapter: “he soon afterwards took a hasty leave, and walked home to the coolness and solitude of Donwell Abbey.”
........Mr. K was much more explicit and said to Emma....
Isidro, that there was something hidden.
There might be something between them if Mr.K sees it, and there have been hints when F goes to see them quite too often one might think
Carol how good that you said that, it is true E is always thinking of herself and that what she says is the truth.
Clara, to be taking advantage of E..,
Yes he seems nice but if so nice why hadn't he come earlier? There is something about him that is not trustworthy... so nice and not pay his father's wife his respects?
Belén, you couldn't be more right we are influenced by E's vision of things and Isidro is good at pointing things out, we all agree F is hiding something.
I hadn't noticed about Fack,ja,ja,ja honestly! I'm tired...
Isidro, a blind person can..,
I think you've explained it as usual really well, I remember it and you are right, E errs where Mr.K interprets.
María, I think you are right about the dream and you have forgotten an S, in your comment.
I don't agree though with the fact that F has bahaved well to J, he has often made fun of her or laughed at her with E.,don't you think?
Isidro, I haven't said that F has misbehaved.. or something very similar..., he is a foolish fellow..,to clarify.., I would like to prove it..,
I think our Isidro would have made a fantastic police inspector he has all the proofs and he reminds us of everything!!!
I can'`t stop reading but I must, tomorrow I have to get up early and since I've been in London this week-end I'm so tired I can't keep my eyes open.
Isidro, he didn't want E TO THINK..,Jane was right, had motives enough, to be upset,
I think you may very well be right. What is clear is that finally E sees that Mr. Frank Churchill has bad traits in his character, and that is not what she is looking for in a man.
If Jane were clever she would run away from him except for the fact that he is rich, but even that is not worth it. For her it id different as she has no money at all.
Clara, you have a point, Mr.K is very interested in correcting E and in her welfare maybe too much so, are men so interested in a woman unless they be in love with her?
Mercedes, ..is matched to.. and on the other hand.., about the letter that E sent? I don't quite see what you mean.
That is for sure that E is always misjudging characters, how can she not see anything? I think it is because she thinks he is still after her, insufferable coquette!
Isidro, too irritated to talk,or for words..,Mr.K TELLS..,E disagreeS careful with the SSSS.
His OWN feelings are...,Austen seems TO stress..,
What I like about your comments is that you always provide ample proof from the text, you've done it again, giving us the key Mr.K must certainly be in love with E!!
Well done for correcting yourself
I”ll try to do the proof of understanding between Frank and Jane in several steps.
First step: THE BLUNDER. When, in chapter 41, Mrs Weston told Frank that she didn’t know that Mr Perry had the intention of getting a carriage, he said that it must have been a dream. But his father shows clearly the absurd of Frank’s proposal.
Second step: THE SUSPICION. However, Mrs Bates said that Mrs Perry had told them that Mr Perry had the plan of getting a carriage. So after this declaration we can suspect that Jane can be able to give Frank this information in a letter. But the proof came a little later during the game of words.
Third step: THE INSPECTION OF Mr. K. While they were entering Emma’s hall, Mr Knightley had been looking at to Frank and Jane, very attentively, trying to catch a meaningful look between them, but Jane passed between them into the hall, and looked at neither”. Afterward, during the game, “Mr K had placed as to see them all” and he knew that “the letters were but the vehicle for gallantry and trick…..(…)… With great indignation did he continue to observe him; with great alarm and distrust, to observe also his two blinded companions”. When the word Dixon appeared, Jane couldn’t endure more and she left the game and the party very upset. Afterward, Mr K asked Emma about to the meaning of the last word, but she was ashamed and didn’t give him the true explanation”
Fourth step: THE PROOF.
“….Harriet, eager after every fresh word, and finding out none, directly took it up, and fell to work. She was sitting by Mr. K, and turned to him for help. The word was BLUNDER; and Harriet exultingly proclaimed it, THERE WAS A BLUSH ON JANE’S CHEEK WHICH GAVE IT A MEANING NOT OTHERWISE OSTENSIBLE”
In my view, Frank takes everything as a joke and laughed at everybody. But in this occasion he used the word blunder to give a message to Jane in full view of everyone. Jane perceived the message and realized that their secret might be discovered and therefore she blushed. In reality, Frank wanted to have a kind gesture with her, but she is not used to receive Frank’s courtesies in public.
So, it is clear that there is understanding between them. Until now a felt pity of Jane and, after knowing it, I continue feeling pity of her, because I think that she is suffering a lot.
Marta, I agree with you when you say: If Jane were clever she would run away from him except for the fact that he is rich, but even that is not worth it."
Obviously,with the word blunder, the message that Frank gave to Jane was: What a blunder I have done about the carriage!!!! Now, I remember that you said me the information.
you gave me the information!!!!! ja, ja ja, ja,.....
What a blunder I have made!!!?????
Mr K feels that he has to tell E about what he has noticed about F, and he warns her that there is something between F and J, to which she explains several things to convince him that it’s not true. After this, and seeing her in such a gay spirits he found he was not useful there and walked home by feeling cool and lonely. Is it not a pity? A person like him, who has all he need in life, ... but he feels sad.
Isidro, the absurdity..,feeling pity for her.
What was the name of Agatha Christie's famous inspector? Poirot? This is how I'm going to call you from now on!!!
What an explanation and a good investigation you've done! And you've put it across very clearly, I am impressed!!
In the other classes they tell me that it is amazing how much you have improved..keep it up
Isidro you are starting to crack jokes! That one was good!
I'm Amparo
Well, I'm here as you can see, for speaking about Emma.Emma, who describes herself as an 'amaginist' and it's true,but every one of Emma's imaginings has been mistaken,as we have see since we started to read her story.As when Mr.Knighley tries to alert Emma to the signs tha Frank Churchil and Jane Fairfax are secretly in love.Of course,Emma scorns this idea. I think that Emma
will suffer the humilation of knowing that Mr. Knightley has been right.Poor Emmas, she must give up being an 'imaginist? and learn to be realist
Don’t you think that Emma’s blindness is striking? I do.
When they went to Box Hill, at first Emma thought that “Frank was silent and stupid.” And she thought that “while he was so dull, it was no wonder that Harriet should be dull likewise, and they were both insufferable.” What an obsession with a match that she only sees!
When Frank was with Emma and Harriet was silent and stupid, but “when they all sat down it was better; to her taste a great deal better, for Frank Churchill grew talkative and gay, making her his first object. Every distinguishing attention that could be paid was paid to her”
It is amazing that Emma shouldn’t ask herself by the reason of this change of humour. In my opinion, Frank was waiting the others to begin his play. When they arrived he began his special show: his flirtation with Emma.
The play was so regrettable that the public began to leave and all finished when Jane couldn’t bear more and she also left the group. Then, the show was over.
Immediately after, “the young man’s spirits now rose to a pitch almost unpleasant. Even Emma grew tired at last of flattery and merriment.” So, it is clear that Frank is interested neither in Emma nor in Harriet.
In my view, Frank’s behaviour has been so awkward and stupid that it will provoke a great argument with Jane. Do you think she will have the courage to send him to hell?
And, what do you think about the simplicity and stupidity of Emma who doesn’t perceive that Frank is laughing at her when he ask: “will you choose a wife for me?”.
Emma asked herself: “Would not Harriet be the very creature described?” Even once, does Emma hit the nail on the head.
Isidro Congratulations, I'm not having realized that in the game was the key to discovering the deception. I think Frank is very good at communicating with Jane through the game. And you are very good as an inspector how says Marta. I reread it but I couln´t find the proof as you did.
Amparo, at last!! to speak...,E's fantasies..,we have seen..,of the signs he sees of J+F's being in love...,give up her fantasies.
Yes of course she must but is she going to? She thinks she is right and she is only full of herself.
Isidro, ask herself for..,waiting for the..,once again E puts her foot in, I think you mean. The other expression means she is right. Though maybe you are being sarcastic, then an admiration mark would be suitable.
Of course Frank's behaviour is deplorable and horrible. Even our stupid E gets tired of him, though she sees nothing of what is in his mind. And she persists on marrying him to H! She is definitely not clever!!
I absolutely agree with everything you say.
María, I hadn't realised that the key...was in the game..,as Marta says..,
Reread it again and you will. The text has everything in it.
Marta, thank you for your corrections.
In the last sentence of my comment, I wanted to say:
Not once, does Emma hit the nail on the head.
Is it correct?
I remember the first paragraph at the beginning of the novel: E.W hadsome,clever...but while we follow on reading the book we realize that E. is not so clever, she is a little be stupid because she doesn't find out of anything around her, only Mr. K. is perceiving what is happen and when he tells it her, E. doesn't bear in mind it.
Anyway, in the chapter 43, F.Ch. is an stupid man, until E., thinks of him that she had never seen F.C. so silent and stupid, and of course Isidro, you are right, in spite of this she wants to find a wife to him.
And what do you think when he asks rest of the people: Ladies and gentlemen, I am ordered by Miss Wood. to say, that she desires to know what you are all thinking of?
Is not it a silly and infant play?
Isidro, the nail on its head..,
Thank you!
Mercedes, a little bit stupid..,she doesn't find out anything around her..,what is happening...,tells it to her..,the rest..,is it not..,
You are absolutely right, she is stupid and childish as she doesn't realise the consequense of her acts and that is bad characterwise.
By the way what do you think about E's bitchy mean commet?
I am feeling embarrassing and overwhelmed. All of you are clever about the book and when I think something and I see the bloc, my thoughts are writing yet.
The novel is been interesting a lot since Emma begins to appreciate Mr K. in a different way, perhaps with love, though she is not consciousness of her feelings.
These chapters are interesting because there are a lot of gatherings.
After meetings the relationships change and things are different than before the meeting.
We have discovered that there is an special relation between Jane F. and Frank Ch, because they had written letters between themselves. I think that the different level in money can be the problem in this relationship.
Jane is suffering and Frank is a bit bitchy.
The end of chapter 42 is interesting because Emma analyses Frank very well: “you are sick of prosperity and indulgence”
And Frank says that he is not a fortunate person. What problems have he?
Emma gives a stupid solution for problems; she recommends his taking some refreshment.
On the other hand I consider interesting Emma’s feelings and reflections about Abbey because we can imagine perfectly the atmosphere very English.
It is important too, Emma’s reflections about Isabella’s marriage because she has linked whit gentility and nobility of blood and mind.
These reflections prove that for Emma is important love in marriage but she accepts the rules about not to mix different classes clearly accepted at that time.
Mercedes, I agree with you when you said that E. is not as intelligent as she was introduced.
But, we must not forget that she was brought up hearing that she was wise. Also, I think that she is like her father,who is not able "to suppose that other people could feel different from himself"( herself). Moreover, may be she thought that she could manipulate people as she does with her father.
However, she has learnt from her expiriences, and probably she is going to improve more.
Mercedes, I agree with you when you said that E. is not as intelligent as she was introduced.
But, we must not forget that she was brought up hearing that she was wise. Also, I think that she is like her father,who is not able "to suppose that other people could feel different from himself"( herself). Moreover, may be she thought that she could manipulate people as she does with her father.
However, she has learnt from her expiriences, and probably she is going to improve more.
Hi mates!I have to say somethings. I agree with all of you, overall, with Isidro who is writting a "thesis". Isidro, I admire your comments! You see everything in detail with wit.
Returning to Emma. Frank Churchill is stupid. He is playing like a child with Jane. I ´m absoutely convinced that he has something with J. and he was flirting with her during the game. And when he told Perry´s story he was talking about something which J. had told him by letter. Do you remember J. loves going to the post office? Please, remember the conversation between J. and Mr.K´s brother. In my opinion it´s another clue. He made a mistake and he uncovered the reader´s imagination and everybody, except Mr.K, seems being happy being blind. Jane, now, Austen was very clever!
On the other hand, Jane have to suffer a lot if she is really in love with him. What do you think: she loves him in secret or she is keeping it because he is rich? Why does she have her feelings undercontrol? What does she wish happened? I don´t think she is courageous enough to defense this story. Don´t you think it is very suspicious when J. went so quickly and F,. arrived?
Now, it´s time for Mr. K. He is the best! He is intelligent. He is the only one who realizes the real situation and who emphasize with others. I don´t think he is, now, in love with E. I think he wants to protect her. But I thought he wanted to unmask him and I was waiting for it, but I should wait for it more...
E. she looks like a doll, she doesn´t want to see anything because she has her proper game and reality doesn´t fix with it. But she must open her eyes because if she doesn´t do it she is going to have a disagreeable surprise and she will feel ashamed. I feel a little pity for her but on the other hand, she needs it.
Thank you mates for supporting me. Kisses
And I want to say another thing. I agree with anonimo too. I think the blog is a good oportunity for us to improve and practise. I learn a lot from you!
And (I don´t want to suck up) but I like recognize things. Marta, thank you so much! You spend a lot of hours out of work reading and correcting our comments and overall, motivating us! Thanks!
I disagree with all of you when everybody says that the game Frank used to comunicate with Jane is a silly game, or is a game for kids. I think that it is the only way that he has to talk to her, at that time.
He did not want to wait. He needed to do it at this moment and used what he was close to him. And it seems to me that he has skill enough and get what he want.
Carol, I agree with you, we owe Marta ours thanks for her support and her hard work with this blog.
I only want to say this because I run out of the time and I have to leave it.
I'll try to write after because there are some interesting post that they need one answer, but this blog is dangerous, your enter only to read and you get caught in it
María Av.-1D, I agree with you. Although a game is always a game, sometimes, like in this case, the game became more that a single game, because Frank gave it some new perspectives. There is the game himself such as it would be to little children or to Mr Woodhouse, Harriet, Miss Bates and so on; another game is the intrigue of Frank and Emma to make fun of Jane; another perspective is the game of Frank telling Jane their secret in front of everybody.
We could also speak of the game of Mr K trying to get aware of the meaning of Frank’s intentions and Emma. Perhaps he is the most interested in the game therefore he has placed himself strategic in order to grasp the meaning of the words. And finally, there is the reader’s point of view, but it would be a little long and I have to leave.
María, another day we could speak of the opportunities of talking between FranK and Jane. Remember the repair of the glasses and the scissors, the unevenness of the piano, the Frank’s arrival at Mr. K’s house after his meeting with Jane, his frequent visits to Mss Bates’s house to pay her attention….It would be very long ….!!
Oh I’m sorry. I have to leave, but it is like a drug. I post it without reviewing.
Don´t worry about it because I am sure you have done it well.
Hi Isidro; the other day I made it as you have done this time, post it without reviewing but I made a lot of mistakes though it was because of one problem with my computer. I am not able to send without reviewing it.
Well I have to go because I must prepare to go to my wonderful English class.
I´m sorry I forgot to say that it seems to me fantastic to speak about all this things other day.
Frank and Emma's intentions
Chapter 42
I realized in my last English class that at the end of chapter 42, the reason why Frank Churchill arrived agitated and out of humour is because he faced up with Jane Fairfax when she was going to her house.
What is the mystery? Are they in love? Have they any problem?
Frank's arrival.
Carmen, feeling embarassed..,my thoughts are already written..,do you mean that? The novel is very interesting since...,they had written letters to each other...,I consider E's feelings interesting...,the adv always at the END!!E's reflexions are important.., ORDER S+V+O+A!!Subject comes first!! Not it is..and then the subject after the verb, careful with that ok? Love is important for E, about not MIXING..,
Yes, love is important for her but she is silly about seeing it, and I agree now we can see things more clearly!!
María, as she was meant to be..,maybe.,she does her father.., You have a point, I don't think it is really that she is unable to think that other people think as she, but that she thinks she is so clever that what she says must be. In any case you have a point.
Carol, Jane has to suffer..,
I see your point but I don't think that Frank is that stupid, as in the game scene he talks to both E and Jane and he is clever at deviating E's attention from the blunder that he made.
I think Jane must be in love with him and more than ever considering he is flirting with E too, there is nothing that makes a woman more in love than having this kind of inconveniences. Don't you think? So he is clever because J is suffering a lot and probably very much in love.
...and who emphasizeS.., careful with the S.
I agree that Mr.K is the best. Why do you think he is so interested in correcting E? I wonder if there is not a bit too much interest on his side.
E is a fool, we are almost at the end and she just can't see anything
..I like recognising things..,
Thank you for your participation and for appreciating my work, I couldn't do it without you!
María, or (that it is) a game for kids..,to get what he wantS.
I agree with you entirely!
Mercedes, thank you so much for your thanks, as I said it is fantastic that we can work together and as a group, you are all very nice and I enjoying this a lot!
Ms.Poirot, the game itself.., Frank's arrival..,
You are right in everything you say it is clever because there are many games going on, and there is by now no doubt whatsoever that there is something between those two. I wonder how E will feel when she finds out if she actually does!! She is bound to.
Well done for correcting yourself, I'm glad you see this as a drug, I agree it is adictive.
María, all these things..,
I'm so glad you like it, I promise you it is the best thing for your English, I'm so glad we started it some 4 years ago, such a good thing for all of us. I also practise and then it is good to get better with the computer.
Carmen, I am now very sure there is something between those two, the secrets, the visits as our private Poirot says, etc. all suggest that there is something between them. That Jane might have another relationship is also possible but with Frank there must be something don't you think?
I think we are going to call you Emma!
Hi everybody. When we began to read the book, I wouldn’t have imagined that “Emma” were a very success. We can see that every time we open the blog. It is incredible such account of comments. Anyway respecting the novel I think Emma’s image has suffered an important deterioration. There is a terrible mess between Jane, Frank, the Weston and Miss Bates. What do you think of Miss Bates? What does she know about her affair with Frank Churchill? On the other hand, it could be the Weston should have a great interest Frank’s relationship with Emma. Are they trying to conceal this? They also used to walk together Jane, Mss Bates Frank and the Weston. What do they comment during these walks? If the Weston are so interested in a relationship between Emma and Frank, how is that they walk with Jane so often if they know the affair Jane-Frank?
Until now, Mr Knightley represented the rationality the objectivity the good sense. It looked as if he flew over everybody, but lately Jane Austen has decided to take him of the freeze.
What do you think of Jane Austen’s approaching to Mr K’s feelings in the last chapters? Have you realized the subtlety of her approach?
I think that the approach began in the Crown’s ball. While Emma was dancing to Frank she looked often at Mr K and “Whenever she caught his eye, she forced him to smile; but in general he was looking grave….(…)… He seemed often observing her”
What do you think of Mr K’s interest in discover the real relationship between Frank and Jane? What about his intention of warning Emma about his suspects of Frank’s double play?
What do you think about his disappointment with Emma’s answers when he informed her about the possible understanding between Frank and Jane?
J. Austen, in the end of chapter 41, shows delightfully Mr K’ situation, playing with Mr K’s fever (his inner fever), Hartfield’s fire and Donwell Abbey coolness and solitude, and I would add Emma’s cold water on Mr K?
And finally, I am beginning now chapter 45 where Mr K announces that he is going to spend some days with John and Isabella and say to Emma: “Have you anything to send or say, besides the love, which nobody carries?”
What a shame! I would advise Mr H to be more direct, because Emma is a blockhead.
I’m amazed. No matter how friendly Frank be, he’s idiot, never have I read such a horrible comment, F telling E that she should look for a wife for him and how she should be. It is nonsense. Does he want to make J jealous? He is in no hurry. He’s going abroad for two years. An E who is not very clever thinks of H. She undertakes the commission and thinks about changing her in some parts of her features and character. E doesn’t learn from her mistakes, she’s match-making again. All that occurs in front of Jane who has an estrange reaction.
I wanted to say. Mr K's fever (his inner fire)
When E is disrespectful with Mrs Bates, a person who has known her since she was a little child, and is nearly in need, and trusts her and her father because they have always helped her, she seems to do it without noticing it. It is as if Frank could do what he wants with her, ( not in everything) I mean, she’s so happy being flattered by him that she follows him in his games without thinking of the others. Here Mr K plays a really good roll, he is angry with her and tells off her like a father would do to their children. Emma become very sad and worried about what she has done, in fact she cries all the way back home. I think she deserves what Mr K does, her behaviour is worse than we could think in any person with good manners. How can she say that Mrs Bates wouldn’t have noticed it? She thinks of herself as a very intelligent person and of Mrs Bates as an idiot?
Sometimes people who are not very clever tend to think like that, they believe that the others are not in the same height of knowledge, understanding, ... What a pity! By luck we have Mr K who puts things in their right place.
Mr K represented the rationálity, the objectivity and the good sense...
<<<<<<<delightfully Mr K's situation
Ana Mª, that E could be such a success..,so many comments are incredible, subject first!It could be the Westons who..,
I don't think anybody knows about Jane and Frank's affair, as you call it, not even Miss Bates, Jane is not stupid and if she told her aunt, ten to one that she would have commented it, she talks so much that she is bound to have done it. The Westons want E and F to marry but they are discreet about it, I don't think they know either.
Isidro, in discovering..,shows Mr.K's situation delightfully.., adv at the end. Donwell A's coolness..,
Don't tell us anything of what is coming ahead please unless those are the set chapters for the week.
I agree with you, what does that show about Mr.K? I have an opinion but I don't want to say it yet. Too angry with E? For what purpose? Too sure that there is something between E and F specially on her side?
Clara, he is an idiot.,
I couldn't agree more, he is acting horribly and E is as you say: not learning from her mistakes!
And your second comment is true too, it places E in the same light as Miss.Bates regarding intelligence and in a much worse regarding character. I think Mr. K is at his best and E at her worst, Miss B also shines, she is indeed good and has more manners and class than E. As the book advances E is growing worse and worse.
Isidro, there is no stress mark in English! But it is fantastic to correct yourself well done!
Marta, I’m sorry. I thought that we had to read chapters 44 and 45 for this week. I doubt always the chapters that we have to read because in my book chapter 43 y 44 are VII and VIII of volume three.
Marta,I thank you very much for your corrections.
I write gerund after prepositions and the adverb at the end usually, but from time to time I make a mistake. I'll try to pay more attention.
And it seems like a joke that I make a comment only to put a comma and that I sould have put an stress market. As you can imagine it is reflex action.
It is a reflex action
Col. Campbell and his family have been a good family for Jane since she became an orphan, and I’m sure they love her so much, but I get sad when I see they haven’t taken her in her trip to see their daughter and send her to her real family because of a fake illness. It seems to me they have left her in the Bates’ with the idea of preparing her for the new life she had in front of her. It’s very hard to change your sort of life, but it’s much harder when you have to, when you don’t want to, furthermore when your life is to be worse than it was before. Her lifestyle has been as good as E’s. And now she has to work looking after three children, and despite them being very good manners and so on they are a job for her.
Why has she decided to accept the job so quickly? It could be because Mrs Elton is an unbearable an insufferable woman, but I don’t think so, I am more into the idea of there must be something hidden.
Clara, I think that you are right. There must be something hidden, but it is more than a suspicion, because it was told in chapter 20.
“With regard to her not accompanying them to Ireland, her account to her aunt contained nothing but truth, though there might be some truths not told”
It is surprising how J Austen mixes appearance and realty and how she suggests different ways and leaves a lot of hints which sometimes are unnoticed.
Such is the ability of J A that we get lost, drawn by the more immediate event, many times mistaken, while the truth is clearly within sight, as well.
But I don’t think that Jane has a fake illness. I think that she has a tendency of suffering of psychological illness because of her personality. Jane had a fit of hysteric s when Mss Campbell got married, and she was thinking in retiring from all the pleasure of life to penance and mortification, forever. And lately, after Box Hill’s party, she couldn’t stand the psychological pressure and she has had another hysteric fit.
Isidro, you do fine in correcting yourself and you are improving a lot the fact that you do that shows it too.
I'm sure you are right about the chapters, the problem is that I have 4 4ths and they are not all in the same chapter unfortunately!!
Clara, them having very good manners..,
What you say is very true and one feels sorry for poor Jane, that is what Austen is denouncing, how very desperate women were if they had no money. No wonder Jane feels sad and she wants to leave as soon as possible to start her new life. But I agree there must be something else, why did she do it so suddenly?
Isidro, thinking of..,
It is amazing how well you know the novel! To tell us what was in Chapter 20 is quite outstanding.
But do you think she is capable of losing control? We have always seen her as very much under control? She is always collected and never loses control, people even comment how she can suffer Mrs.Elton and never complain or show any feeling? I think the word hysterical cannot be applied to her. I agree that something happened in the house or walk that made her lose control but she is not hysterical in my opinion.
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