Jane Austen (1775-1817) is one of the greatest English women novelists. This, her most popular novel, features the novelists´favourite heroine, Elizabeth Bennet, and most women´s favourite hero, Mr. Darcy.
We know that all our students will enjoy the novel so please join in with your comments!
7 de octubre de 2008
"PRIDE AND PREJUDICE" (Jane Austen)
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Wilkie Collins
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«El más antiguo ‹Más antiguo 401 – 600 de 729 Más reciente› El más reciente»Sorry, I have found some own mistake: "we all would have just read...; isn´t Lizzy..."
You are right Rebeca, it is a pity money rules the world in almost every way even if you are in love with someone. Finding out that the person you are fond of is wealthy or well situated in society, your mind is more willing to feel an attachment for her/him, don’t you think?
Lizzy is obviously a brave woman, able to prevent circumstances affecting her. Nevertheless, despite the fact that she behaves sometimes as if she were not concerned at all, she is suffering within herself, actually.
Mistake:
Attachment "TO"
I don´t agree with you Roberto, if you love someone, it doesn´t matter the money he or she had, or at least it shouldn´t be important. According to the novel, this feeling has remembred me Mr. Bingley; he loves Jane (altough he hasn´t still gone to see her), and he has never thought about her richness; I mean, he has never seen it as an impediment.
On the other hand, I´m sure, as you, that Lizzy is suffering due to all the facts that have happened lately, but she doesn´´t want to show it.
Rebeca, the money he or she has, this feeling has reminded me. The comparison you draw with Mr.Bingley is good, not all men or women are considering their prospective partner´s fortune, but many people do. I think money is present in many things not to say in all it was is and will be very important, money gives power and there is no denying that.
By the way I don´t know where to post this I can´t find your other comments, sorry I´ll continue looking for them
I don´t know where I am but I think I have found the comments I was looking for.
Itziar were you that surprised? I think that Mr.Wickham was too good to be true, and Lizzy liked him more than she wanted to own. If not why did she take such care in her looks on the day of the Netherfield ball? I don´t think she likes Mr.Darcy at all, she is always talking in his back. No I think she liked Mr.Wickham and that is why she excused him.
Marta, having reached 400th comments, we are on a new page and you have to clikc on "Más antiguo" so as to read posts from the 200th to 400th.
:-)
Mistake: the 400th comment or 400 comments.
Roberto thanks, I´m very pleased we´ve reached 400 comments!
Now I put this question to you what do you think about what Itziar says about Mr.Wickham? "Are all men bad?" Oscar WILDE. "Yes, all". It´s not me it is Wilde who says it.
Rebeca, I am not sure whether the example given is a proper one. Mr. Darcy does not have the necessity of finding a wealthy woman, for he is already a rich man. However, I agree with you concerning his quest for true feelings being praiseworthy.
Marta, I think you have hit the nail on the head. I dare say women often believes men like Mr. Wickham portrait the man of your dreams, when it is a man like Mr. Darcy (I mean as a person, not referring to his social status) that will make you happy.
As for Itziar question, I can only speak for myself when saying I hope not.
What a mistake: often BELIEVE
By the way,
I think it better if I set a date so that those of you interested in improving your speaking skills may get it (I include myself).
NEXT SUNDAY AT 19H.
Send me an email to robertodeza@msn.com if you are willing to join the meeting.
One more mistake:
I meant THIS Sunday.
Sorry!
And again:
As for Itziar'S question.
Hello again, I've been missed a long time because of some unforeseen, but everything is ok, and I'm going to try to write everyday as Marta has recomended us.
About the last chapters we have talked in class I have to say that I'm changing my opinion about Lizzy. I had a great opinion about her, she isn't like other girls from her ages but now she is showing some stupids behaviors, she speaks more than she should, and she critizises without thinking in other people's feelings. For example, She disagree with Charlote's decision and she insults her for it, it denotes she is narrow-minded. Can you only marry when you are in love? or can you marry because you are looking for and estability like Charlote is going to do. In my opinion the most important thing is that people be sincerly expressing their feelings. Mr Collins and Charlote want the same thing, they want to create a family and spend the rest of their lives with a parner who complete his/her necesities. On the other hand Lizzy is in love with Mr Wickam and she only see love and a pink world. this is the ideal marriage, when you are in love. But she could be critizised as well, she doesn't realized about her situation, how is she going to live without money?
Cris welcome back, Lizzy is stupid, adjs don´t vary. Without thinking of, not in. She only sees love, careful with the s of the third person. She doesn´t realise, modal auxiliaries are followed by the infinitive without to.
I agree with you Lizzy wants people to marry for love that being the only way and she is wrong, you marry for whatever reason if it is good for you fine. What annoys me is that she condemns Charlotte and excuses Wickham! That is indeed being biased!
Roberto has had a very good idea you must go it is fantastic to practice!
You have a message in the Film Club (My blueberry nights). Help us to make the club survive, please!!!
Some people are unable to notice that in life there are more perspectives than their own and they might be mistaken. I cannot bear speaking to someone how is stubborn in his beliefs. At least, Miss Bennet seems clever enough so as to perceive such a weakness, doesn't she?
Hello!
I agree with Cris. At first I thought that Lizzy was very sensible with her opinions. She was intelligent, and even she was always prejudging everybody, she was respectful with her family and friends. But now, after reading the last chapters, my opinion has changed. I think she is not only disrespectful with Charlotte, but also narrow- minded. It is not very just to critize Charlotte for being married with a man who is not in love with. Mr Collins and Charlotte want the same thing, they want to be married.
Maybe an interest marriage could have more succesful than a marriage just for love. What do yo think?
Ups!How many comments have been posted since my last intervention!
I´d like to talk about all of them, but it would be a little boring and would take you many time to read, so I´ll quote some of the most remarkables (in my humble opinion, of course).
Firstly, Marta´s allusion to Oscar Wilde has liked me too much. I´m not sure, but I supposed Wilde was talking about human beings, not only men. Altough I think it is negative statement, I also belive it shows that we all have two faces, the good and the bad one. It´s what happens with Mr. Wickham; he has shown his sweet face to Lizzy, but will it be the real one?.
On the other side, I wouldn´t want to blame Charlotte, because she has been very clever by getting married with a solvent man. Nevertheless, we have to admit that it would be better if she was in love with him too.
Roberto, it would be a good idea to meet on sunday, but it would be also probably people to be abroad or resting at home. I´ll send you an email to confirm my assitance, and to Know the time, the place and if we are going to be more than two!How could be encouraged our classmates?
Sorry, some mistakes; would have been better...and... she had been in love
WE HAVE A CONTEST ON THE FILM CLUB!!!
Arancha, a man whom she is not in love with. I agree that a marriage for interest is sometimes more successful than a marriage for love. Apparently the lowest divorce rate is in China where the marriages are arranged.
Rebeca, some of the most remarkable, remember the adj never in the plural. I have liked Marta´s allusion to Wilde. On the other hand. But people might be away or resting. How could our classmates be encouraged? Inversion with questions.
Please see about the film club and join in the conversation outings.
thanks Marta for your corrections.
Lizzy excused Wickham, because clearly she is in love him, and when women are in love (I'm including myself), they think they are the most important thought of their boyfriends or husbands however, men think of planning a meeting with their friends more than how their girlfriends are feeling.
Wickham is an officer and he knows that his uniform impresses girls and he flirt with Elizabeth but for sure he does the same with others. In my opinion he is not a good man, it was in his first assembly with Lizzy when he critizised Mr. Darcy. I don't like people who gossip and say bad words about others as soon as they can.
Arancha: I agree with you sometimes marriage of convinience is better than a marrige of only love. ovbiusly if both of the couple agree with the necesity of having a partner, in a marriage of convinience they are looking for a solution of their problems and they get compliment to each other. on the other hand in a romantic marriage not always do they think about money problems, or children,...
What would be of us without your corrections? Thank you Marta.
Cris, I entirely agree with you;women love in a different way than men. Of course, women like men in uniforms (as policemen or firemen), but do you think they use it as a way of conquering us? I belive Mr. Wickham is not as intelligent as to have noticed women likes men in uniform.
On the other hand, we have been talking about successfully marriages, and we all agree that we can find them in those ones which have been arraged. But I´d like to insert another subject; in your opinion, what of these options would be better: to enjoy a love story without thinking about getting married (as Lizzy belives, although not exactly as I have told) or to be successfully married with someone you didn´t love?
Talking about another question, have you read chapter 34? I belive it is going to be one of those women will like most.
Rebeca, women are in continuous search of marriage when they are in love, aren't they? So, you cannot have one without the other. ;-)
Chapter 34 is quite interesting indeed. Reading it, you realise things are not always in the way we thought them to be.
I don`t like Wickham either. As you said Cris, speaking ill about anyone at your first occasion means to be not a good attitude. Anyway, Lizzy liked him as he was the most handsome man she had ever seen but I don’t think she was in love with him. She said so and I am of the same opinion. Had she fallen in love with him she would have got very angry when she discovered his engagement to Miss King but she forgave him. Moreover, her vanity was pleased as she had been chosen firstly to flirt with and the only reason why Wickham was to marry any other girl was the money she had inherited. I think she realised Charlotte was doing her best for a living as well. On the other hand it is always harder to excuse some of your relatives or a good friend rather than an acquaintance.
Rebeca, as for your question, love or business, well, I would prefer love but if I were clever enough I would choose money, that way you can both keep your standard and employ your lover. Roberto, do you mean this? ;-)
I don´t think like this, Roberto, and I suppose neither of my female mates do. (what a difficult sentence for me, I´m sure I haven´t written it well, but I don´t know how to do it better!).
Women would want to find our blue prince one day, but it doesn´t mean we want to get married above all. Besides, I think everybody would like not only to search but to discover the eternal source of love happiness. However it is imposible, and in my opinion it is the reason why our characters at Pride and Prejudice are still alive in the XXI century. They are suffering due to love affairs.
On the other hand, I agree with you Teresa, Lizzy is not in love with Mr. Wickham, as she doesn´t mind his next wedding with Miss King.
You too have surprised me, why is an arranged marriage better than one for love? Love is the meal of the soul, and we have to bread it!
Cris you are right that first conversation was a bit suspicious he criticised too much and also to a stranger.
Rebeca women like uniforms. It is true, I agree with both we love in a different way. Successful marriages. To your question I say it depends on what you want. A love affair is fine but women usually like marriage for some it is a goal and before it was a necessity
We haven´t read chapter 34 yet so please don´t disclose anything!
Teresa, on the first ocassion menas being.
A very clever answer to Rebeca´s question. Wickham did not engaged to Miss. King, and I think Lizzy saw things as she´d liked them to be, i.e. Wickham loves me but he knows we can´t marry so he is after another girl. Well I think she is a little big-headed!
Rebeca it is better to quote Shakespeare who said "the food of love". But I agree with Roberto the majority of women want to marry, no wonder, that is how all the fairy tales end: they lived happily ever after. We associate love with marriage and it is the contrary marriage kills love.
Goodness me! having reached 400 comments we are on a new page and I didn´t find you; anyway,
I´ll try to do our “homework” speaking about Mr. Wickham.-
I agree with Marta that Elizabeth has an ironic attitud. I wonder why Elizabeth´s feelings are still cordial toward Wickham, the only reason I find is that in spite of showing some feeling She is not really in love with him.
When we read chapter XVI, I wrote in the blog that I wondered if He told Elizabeht all the truth when He explained about old Mr. Darcy´s story to her.
Reading chapters 27-28 I think that Mrs. Gardiner’s concerns seem reasonable enough to make us wonder if Wickham is perhaps not as trustworthy as Elizabeth believes.
I think that Wickham is a mask, isn´t he?
I dislike Elizabeth’s attitude sometimes, for she keeps thinking herself above every circumstance whose consequences might threaten her sentiments, always having an excuse so as to avoid either feeling disappointed or having her pride injured.
Wickham discredits himself by speaking in such disgraceful a manner about a person who is never there so that he might express his own version concerning the issue.
About the discussion if it's better love marriage or covinient marriage, well, obviusly I prefer having a love marriage, but I'm an independence woman, I don't need a rich man, because I can work and earn the same money as a man. Nevertheless, I prefer a man who gives me estability as well, I don't want only love (sex) and look the sky, I want to have a family (children), and for that you need feel confident with your partner. this is the reason why I understood the marriage which have been arraged. And the last point to stand out: nowadays You don't need to be married to live with a man, but in those days which woman or man with a good reputation didn't get married?
How beautiful sentence Marta; "the food of love";I didn´t know it had been said by Shakespeare. However, I don´t understand it well, What is the food of loved?marriage? I hope not!
Never mind, let´s talk about Pride and Prejudice. I´d like to stand out the peace that we can perceive around the plot since Mrs. Benneth doesn´t appear!. Talks are less stressful, don´t you think so?Altough it doesn´t mean that they are not less deep or important.
Sorry, without not; they are less deep...
And Mrs. Bennet; sorry again
Now, we know Mrs Catherine de Bourgh, She is a very elegant woman who deleight everyone with her invitations, but in my opinion she looks a litle haugthy because she knows about everything and she can give her advice to everyone and critizise how people live their life. for instance she tells Charlotte how she has to organize her house to be a perfect wife, or critizise Lizzy's mother because she didn't take her dauthers to learn how to play music or drawing. Maybe she is right in some aspects (because if you have money, but when your husband die, you are going to lose it, you should invest as much as you can in your daughters' education), however the manners were used by lady Catherine weren't polite.
Thank you, Marta. It's true Wickham and Miss. King are not engaged. I guess my subconscious took him out of scene as soon possible. Well, I can't lie, I don't like him. By the way, was it possible at that time to be upgraded being in the army? This way, he'd earn more money and he wouldn't need to get married but for love, if he wished so.
On the other hand, I do not agree with you at all. It is not marriage that kills love but maybe boredom or non-sharing with your partner.
I´ll carry on talking about Wickham and Elizabeth´s friendship.
There was a farewell between Elizabeth and Wickham before leaving for HUNSFORD. She parted from him convinced that wheter married or single, he must always be her model of the amiable and pleasing.
Had she fallen in love with him she would have had other kind of thoughts, wouldn´t she???. It would be also a nice moment for showing each other´s feelings; neither of them do that
You're right Mar, but maybe Lizzy is thinking of her family advice and she prefer waiting a love but with money.Or she is prudent enough to keep her feelings inside. had she expressed her feelings she would be in Wickham's hand, when a man knows that a woman is in love him , He loses his interest on her. Wickham doen't look the man who wants naive girls.
And obviusly He wasn't going to tell Lizzy anything because he is flirting with other girl, he keeps all doors open
Cristina, you can (and you have) to earn the same amount of money as a man does, however, we are referring to getting married to a wealthy person offering you access both to luxury and high society. It is an attractive temptation, isn’t it? On the other hand, I wonder why people embracing such a social status often believe themselves right to tell off everyone who is living under so privileged a position. Nevertheless, haughty as Mrs Catherine is, she might not be mistaken by judging Elizabeth’s character.
Roberto I undersand your point of view but I think that in the characters from the novel are looking for a rich husband because they need a husband to survive, then if you are going to depend on him it'll be better to have a wealthy man than a middle or lower class one.
Well, jumping to other theme, Mr Darcy is coming and Lizzy is as blind as a bat and doesn't realise Mr Darcy is in love her.Just as well Charlotte is close her and I dare say She is going to give good advice to Lizzy. Will the next chapters be more amazing and discover us the love story?
Not being sure what chapters you are doing this week, I hope not to disclose any important event happened in chapter 31 with this comment. Lady Chatherine makes me nervous every time she considers it necessary to hint every body else’s lacking the skill to develop a particular activity. I wonder why people like her are confident when saying that they might have embraced such a talent had they had the chance to do it, for it is always very easy to give opinions of the sort without having any experience on the issue.
On the other hand, I enjoyed Mr Darcy’s witty answer to another “impudence” of Miss Bennet’s:
“… and I have had the pleasure of your acquaintance long enough to know that you find great enjoyment in occasionally professing opinions which in fact are not your own”.
Great, don’t you think?
Dear class mates,
We must try to write a little bit more, for I am afraid the thread is turning rather quiet. Let us give it a huge leap!
The more you read, Lizzy becomes worse in her attitude, however, Mr. Darcy seems to improve. What a paradox!
I wrote the last comment as a way of encouragement and not in order to tell you off.
:-)
Roberto: As we are reading chapters 31-32-33 and 34 this week, you don´t disclose anything , so that, don´t worry. About the blog, take it easy with us, as we are only “poor fourth” spending our time trying to understand “the subjunctives and the inversions” . Obviously there is not reason to tell we off as we are superb, don´t we?
As I told you (all of you) throught my comments, I´m fond of Elizabeth Bennet. In spite of being imprudent she is a character with wisdom and intelligence, that is the reason why after receiving that picture of herself, she reacts in a resourcefull way talking to Colonel Fizwilliam: “... I am particularly unlucky in meeting with a person so well able to expose my real character in a part of the world, where I had hoped to pass myself off with some degree of credit”. I LIKE IT.
On the other hand, I don´t contradict myself telling you that Mr Darcy’s reply cames in the righ time BUT why did he start the sentence with: “I have had the PLEASURE ...”?. Were he indifferent about Elizabeth, he wouln´t use those words.
I made a mistake, sorry about that
Arent´t we????
Precisely Mar, you have find out how men usually address to the woman they are fond of, so to say, by means of little allusions like the one you have just mentioned. You only have to pick it up. ;-)
You are not “poor fourths” at all, for you have Marta as your teacher and I KNOW nothing else but your effort is needed so as to succeed in mastering the language. Keep writing as much as you can and working hard and you will improve a lot. There are very few times in life offering such an opportunity to learn not only English but culture. So, let us take good advantage of them while we can.
MISTAKE MISTAKE!!!
You have FOUND out.
I think it interesting to mention a very famous quote from the film “Casablanca" (1941) which migth fit with what I meant in my last comment. You only have to see it as a metaphor.
RICK.- “I’m saying it because it’s true. Inside of us we both know you belong to Victor. You’re part of his work, the thing that keeps him going. If that plane leaves the ground and you’re not with him you’ll regret it.”
ILSA.- “No.”
RICK.- “Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon, and for the rest of your life.”
Goodness me!!! Roberto, it looks like
NOT ONLY do you write using inversion BUT you also think of an inverted way. Anyway,
It is true that thanks to the blog we can practise and improve our English level, for example, thanks to this comment I´ll never foget the kind of inversion with the adv I have used.
D-Day arrived, at least! When I read Mr Darcy's declaration of love the other day I thought about those who have maintained that Mr Darcy was NOT is love with Lizzy. My dear classmates, I was right... I'm so sorry... Chapter 34, page 147: "In vain have I struggled. It will not do. My feelings will not be repressed. You must allow me to tell you how ardently I admire and love you". I wish you accept that Mr Darcy is crazy about Lizzy now. I can imagine Mr Darcy's face ("that" Mr Darcy who is hanged on our class' wall) pronouncing these words. It's a picture of a rough man fighting againts himself, againts his feelings ("... in vain have I struggled"). It's fantastic! And "...how ARDENTLY I admire and love you". Has anybody declare his/her love to you in that way? The answer is "no" in my case...
Mar, of course not only is this blog helping us to improve our Engilsh level, but to be in contact with it more often, making us to get used to this Language. (I hope I had done the inversion well...) And the subjunctive too!.
Acoording to the novel, I entirely agree with Itziar about it is marvelous Mr. Darcy had declared his love for Lizzy, and best of all; he had done it in front of her, how brave!. At the same time, I have also noiced Mr. Darcy was making a big effort when he said that, altough I suppose he did it because deep down he expected Lizzy accepted his proposal.
To answer your question,unluckily I must sadly said "no" too.
I agree with both of us this is the romantic moment we've been waiting for since the first ball. How brave has he been!Not only He has got over his fears to express his feelings but also he did it in front of Lizzy's haughty and arrogant character. Lizzy had been pretty rough with him last days, She also had put him down to show Colonel Fitzwilliam how unpleasant his friend was.
And of course Never have I had the lucky time of hearing this word said to me
mistake:
these words
Hi, there I see that not one person has posted one comment though we had a very lively discussion about love being everlasting and liberal(in money matters.
i remind you all that I would expect some of you to turn up on Tuesday at the cinema, you could take the opportunity to discuss... the subjunctive with the fifths and with me...
Roberto, hello! How surprising to find you here, you like this novel better thn ours, I´m sure!!!!!
How about dropping a comment comparing Darcy and Rochester in our section, OF COURSE, though you have my "prmisssion" to copy it here!!!!
Remember fourths, a black ribbon, or something to recognize you. On Tuesday..
Carmen, I am glad to read you on this blog. Your comments are always worth reading (obviously, as you and your sister are the masters and we are just the apprentices). Thank you for encouraging people to join the meeting which we have arranged so as to watch the film “Doubt”. Now, I am sure we are going to be a crowd!
On the other hand, it is Jane Eyre’s blog that I have as a priority though I also want to write here for several reasons the first of which being that I have to take good advantage of the blog while I can, for NEVER will I have this chance again in my lifetime. Besides, I was anxious to read Pride & Prejudice, since as you know, it is a very well known novel, full of interesting characters and situations to discuss. I might learn even something about women. ; - )
I am looking forward to writing a comment pointing the differences between so different men as Mr. Darcy and Mr. Rochester are.
Rebeca I´m glad you like the sentence, the food of love, it is beautiful as Shakespeare´s images often are and powerful too. It means that the Duke Orsino would like music to be the food of love, what gives love the strengh to live and thrive and grow.
Cris I´m reading your comments and they are well-written but you have forgotten the S of the third person 3 times so far CAREFUL! About hiding feelings do you remember that Charlotte said it was not a good idea? I myself don´t know but Charlotte has quite a lot of insight, certainly more than Lizzy.
Lady Catherine she has a title and we must call her by it.
I agree with Roberto Lizzy is blind as a bat! She who prided herself of her discernment! It is interesting to read your comments about Lady C. she is Darcy´s counterpart in that she represents what is bad in the aristocracy whereas Darcy represents, in spite of his pride, what is good. He shines where she is at her worst, he is intelligent and she stupid, she is a bit like Mrs. Bennet, capricious domineering rude and silly though being rich she is not as criticised as the other.
Itziar do you think Mr. Darcy is rough? I disagree he is the contrary too racional he thinks too much, he is too honest, he ofends because of his honesty! But I agree with you he must love Lizzy a lot or he would never have proposed! The thing is he never expected a no for an answer!Men have lost the capacity of declaring themselves I think it is a pity, in my case the answer is No too.
Rebeca you did it well, only it is better to say BUT ALSO. I agree about it BEING.. the gerund is necessary after preps.
I see that we are all on the same boat regarding declarations!
Please join the fifths to go to see the film, this week I can´t because I have to give my brother´s son his English lesson but next week I´ll try and join.
Thanks to the 5ths for all you are doing we are really going to miss you next year as you will all pass having such good level!
This is a question for you to comment.
What do you think about Elizabeth´s comment: I who prided myself of my discernment!
Yesterday, we studied that sentence at class, which also belongs to the end of chapter 36. It´s nearly at the begining of one paragraph,which concludes with a very interesting thought.Elisabeth admitted she didn´t know herself!, and that she was wrong. Had before it disclosed us how Lizzy was,we would have realise Lizzy wasn´t as clever as we thought she to be at first.
According to its meaning, I suppose it shows us Lizzy´s selfconfidence (about her intelligence) is falling down. It´s a turning point in the novel (as Carmen said to us on Thursday); Lizzy has realized she has been a little bit proud, and more important, that this behaviour has made her to judge in a wrong way.
However, and unfortunately too, she hasn´t revealed she is in love with Mr. Darcy.
Rebeca: had she said it before we would have realised she wasn´t as clever as we thought. That is exactly what I think this is a turning point for Lizzy from now on what is she going to do, change or be her old self? We´ll see but it has certainly dawned on her that she has been blind and that she has prejudged everybody always thinking that she was right in her judgement.
I agree she is not in love with Darcy but she is beginning to see him in a different light, he now appears much better in her eyes.
Marta, I sincerely thank you for your support.
I must say that I get surprised by reading no reference at all concerning the effect Mr. Darcy’s declaration has on Lizzy when listening to such a speech. Focusing only on the former character and his brave behaviour so as to show his feelings, none of you has mentioned whether the reaction of Miss Bennet’s is correct or not. From my point of view, I do agree with Elizabeth, since despite the fact that Mr. Darcy expresses his feelings openly, honestly and sincerely, many of his beliefs are rather rude and painful even if they be true. I believe he fails in such merchandise mainly because he, as Lizzy also does, is “prided of his own discernment”. Thus, Marta has certainly chosen a very good quote to discuss about. It is quite difficult for a proud person to perceive that they might be mistaken in their beliefs and that there is no understanding such a weakness unless they notice it themselves.
Hello. Roberto, you´re right we haven´t discussed enough Lizzy´s answer, but I suppose it is dued to we all saw it a bit rude. Nevertheless, had I been on Elisabeth´s side, I would´t have found his words as hurtful as she would. Somtimes, it is better the raw reality, than to remain deceived, don´t you think so?
Rebeca, it is due to our all seeing it a bit rude. Gerund after prep.
I agree with Roberto we haven´t discussed it enough. I think Darcy was very very rude, he didn´t behave as a gentleman, as Lizzy said, he offended her deliverately and knowing that he would offend, he still did it. It seems he wanted to tell her all the dilemma he´d been through and he was certain of a victory, he was sure she would accept him because he had a lot of money he was so much above her in everything that the idea of defeat was just not possible. I think Lizzy did very well in refusing him, how can a man value you if you let him treat you like that? Lizzy would have been tread upon all her life had she accepted him then. I think she shines in that chapter more than in any, and I think she was very clever in her answers. Darcy, who is intelligent, got a good set down, a lesson: you can buy and get many things but not me if you act as you´ve done showing no respect for the feelings of others.
Good for her.
About Lizzy's quote, I think Lizzy has realized how she had been prejudiced people only with first impressions, and the worst had she done was believing every gossips she heard. Now She is analizing the new situation and she is trying to put clear her feelings. her opinion about Mr Darcy is getting better but she is still resentfull with him for his interference between Jane and Mr Bingley.
I would like to post my comment about Mr. Darcy’s declaration, as like Marta sayd we haven´t discussed it enough.
Elizabeth's reactions allowing me to empathize with her. We mustn´t forget that there are two important subjects for Elizabeth which She believes are the result of Mr. Darcy´s fault.- a) He is the man who has been the means of ruining the happiness of her sister; as She considers that Mr. Darcy has divided Jane and Bingley from each other; b) He ignored his father´s wishes and gave the living to another man –not to Wickham- leaving Wickham poor, and with no other choise than to join the army. I wonder what will be Mr. Darcy´s reaction regarding those matters now He realizes about Elizzbeth´s thoughts.
Cris, has she has judged people, you can´t use the passive there, it doesn´t make sense. The worst thing she has done is believe every gossip (sg).... You are right she is beginning to see Mr. Darcy in a new light, he no longer is so hateful.
Mar as or like but not both. The only snag about the accusations is that one of them at least is not founded! She has jumped to a conclusion without proof and that is really bad she has acted rashly and stupidly, she wanted to believe that and she did. Very wrong, the other one is apparently true and she has a point, but we have to consider what a, so to say "bad marriage" was at that time. It was a disgrace, it affected the whole family, so no wonder Mr. Darcy didn´t want his friend to marry, the only thing is that it leaves Bingley in a somewhat difficult position: he does what his friend tells him so he is very weak.
I entirely agree with you, Marta. You´re right everybody must to take care from themselves do they want to deserve respect from the others. Then, in that way,and thaks to her first reaction, Lizzy has got Mr. Darcy realised that not only does the nobility belong to money, but to humility.
On the other hand, I also think that Mr. Darcy didn´t want to force Mr. Bingley to refuse the idea of marrying with Jane. However, he perfectly knew his friend used to do everything he said, so Mr. Darcy was playing with advantage. Mr. Darcy is a good man, and he has shown it by getting worried by his friend´s happiness, but, what about Jane and her family? He forgot them, so I´d dare say he has been a bit selfish.
Mario 4-A
In spite of not having yet discussed about it, I cannot help expressing my jubilation for the turning point in Elizabeth's attitude due to Mr Darcy's letter.
The letter is so sensible an effort and, in addition, a priceless one, not only for its honesty but also for allowing Austen to draw the precise portrait of a gentleman through a deep and moving acknowledgement of his previous bad performance.
I would not like to spoil your reading, so I will go on this topic when we have talked about it on next Wednesday. Keep reading and enjoying the novel!
Your last comments all are quite interesting. Well done!
Have you noticed that Miss Bennet and Mr Darcy are exactly the same when analyzing their behaviour is concerned? Both think themselves right in their appreciations and fail in judging one another. Therefore, it is one of them that must take the first step so as to undo such a "misunderstanding" and Mr. Darcy, being the man, is forced to disclose his sentiments first.
Rebeca, must take, careful that mistake is a bad one.Lizzy has got Mr. Darcy to realise,I think Mr. Darcy did want to stop Mr. Bingley from marrying Jane. He said so himself why do you interprete it differently? He wants to do what he thinks is best for his friend regardless of his friend´s happiness. He wants to do what is proper.
Mario I agree with you the letter is fantastic and we learn about Mr. Darcy´s feelings and the way he is.
Roberto you have a lot of insight, I agree they are quite similar and we see it clearly in these chapters. Though for me Darcy is much more intelligent than Lizzy he is a better judge.
Yes...what a big mistake, must isn´t followed by to...
Of course, Mr. Darcy didn´t want to prevent his friend marrying Jane, but as he was trying to move Mr. Bingley away from Loungbour, I thought he prefered another wife for his friend.
I haven´t realised that Roberto, but you´re entirely right, Lizzy and Mr. Darcy have many things in common, but conversely, they´re not together!
Hi fourths! It has been great to meet you in the cinema. You are really lucky to be reading so wonderful a novel (it is, by far, my favorite one)Enjoy it!
I´ve just written the most fantastic comment and it has disappeared!! This is horrible. In it I was saying apart from other things, that it is true that they have things in common. Darcy is pride but so is Lizzy when she is so proud of her discernement and can´t admit that she might be wrong. She is prejudice, but so is Darcy when he judges people by their rank and station. However he gets the better of himself when he proposes in a way admitting that he is wrong to judge people for that and so far Lizzy has not been able to do so.
Rebeca of course Darcy separates his friend from Jane he does it on purpose and succeeds as he normally does. That is why he is so taken aback when Elizabeth refuses him, that option was just not possible!
Paloma hi! I´m so glad the 4ths have turned up at last! I´ll try to join you next week with the rest!
Thank you for hanving come to see the film. I was delighted to meet you, however, it was a pity you could not stay to have something to drink and have a talk.
Marta, we missed you. I hope you can join us next week.
Marta, thanks for your correction I wanted mean: She had been prejudicing people.
About the cinema I can't go along the week, but I'm going to go this weekend if someone want to come with me send me and email: cricri_uni@hotmail.com. I'll go with more friends.
Acording with some comments, Mr Darcy's letter was great and it showed us how Darcy's personality is. I see some aspect in common between Lizzy and Darcy but also big diferences between them. Lizzy is always influenced by the first news that She recives, firstly she believed all Wickham said, and now she is changing her mind due to the letter. however she never tries to search the realy truth. Perhaps Darcy is lying as wickham did. However Darcy is more sensible, before say anything He thinks very carefully what is going to say. How he explains in the letter he didn't tell Lizzy anything when he made his propousal because he wasn't sure what short of events he could reveal. And another distinction, Darcy shows his regret to people, and Lizzy shows her regret to herself.
Hello!!Marta this message is for you. I am afraid I'm not going to be able to attend to class tomorrow because I have to stay at home while a man installs an internet device. The problem is that on thursday I had to do one of the exercises on page 76. So if there is not much problem, I can do it on Friday or next Tuesday.
I'm really sorry.
It also was my pleasure to enjoy the film last night. I met Paloma there, my former classmate, it was fantastic.
Roberto, we (fourths) could not stay to have something to drink and have a talk, we went home and we wrote down an essay about the film as we must give Marta a composition about the film today; we are very responsible, (let´s wait and see the result).
Hi,
I have a question about the film club. I have seen that the next film will be "The reader" but I don´t know which one are we going te see the last tuesday, anybody knows it? It´s because I can´t go both tuesdays and I have to chose
According to the novel, I agree with Cris. I think that Lizzy is not very coherent, at first she thought that Mr Darcy was horrible just because she had heared Whickham´s opinion. But, after hearing Mr Darcy, she changes her opinion. Why is now Mr Wickham the one who is lying and not Mr Darcy?
What a surprise! I didn´t know fourths (which I belong to)were to the cinema yesterday!I should be a little bit lost lately; I mix dates, numbers...The next thing will be lose my head!.
Then, I´ll see the film club every day in order to know the next meeting. However, what will be the next film you will go to see? and the date and time? Thanks, I´ll join with you.
Connecting with the novel, we can say we all are agree Lizzy hasn´t been enough soft in her answer to Mr Darcy, and that she is probably not as intelligent as she seemed at the beggining of the book. Nevertheless, I liked her reaction, because it was more spontaneous than Mr Darcy´s proposal. She let her feelings flow, and isn´t it be something to extol nowadays, when most of people is too cold?. Of course, she should have tried not to offend Mr. Darcy.
Sorry, we all agree, not are agree....and seemed to be
Rebeca, sorry but I don't understand what you mean: "isn´t it be something to extol nowadays, when most of people is too cold?"
In love as Darcy is, it's unlikely he were spontaneus, I dare say He had been thinking how to express his feelings to Lizzy several times, however it wasn't planned at all, otherwise, he hadn't chosen the moment when Lizzy was really anger with him. He knew beforehand She was upset about his interference between her sister and Bingley.
Hi!
"She -Lizzy- let her feelings flow". You're right, Rebeca, but I don't think that Lizzy was more spontaneous than Mr Darcy. Lizzy shows her feelings when she is alone mainly: "How despicably have I acted! I, who have prided mayself on my discernment! I, who have valued myself on my abilities!"... Mr Darcy doesn't know about Lizzy's real feelings. When they talk, after Mr Darcy's declaration of love, Lizzy's words are full of pride and she attacks Mr Darcy with arrogance. In view of the situation Mr Darcy says: "You have said quite enough, madam (...) Forgive me for having taken up so much of your time, and accept best wishes for your health and happiness". The day after Lizzy receives Mr Darcy´s letter, in which he explains himself. Lizzy's reactions comes after she has read Mr Darcy's letter.
And I don't agree with you, Rebeca: most people aren't cold. I'm not cold! I try to show my feelings everyday. I think that we have to express ourselves, it's neccesary to do it
Sorry, cris, I wanted to have written, "isn´t it something to be extoled (or only to extol)?".
Itziar, of course there are many people that show their feelings, but not at hhe first sight, we behave lithis with our family and friends, but not with someone who we just have met or known not for so long. This not Lizzy´s case, she doesn´t share many time with Mr. darcy, so she could have no show herself as she did, don´t you think, so?.
What about the next chapters? they´re very interesting. We will be able to talk about them since tomorrow.
Hello!! I´m María and I met some of you last tuesday at the cinema! It was nice to meet you, and I am sure that you will continue joining us! I hope next tuesday you could have a drink afterwards. I know that you had to do the composition about the film we saw... Marta! Have them at least a week so that they could go to the bars!! ;) Marta, we hope you join us next time! But anyway, thank you very much for your support!
Letters, how romantic a means to express feelings! I wish I WOULD be able to write in the same way as Mr. Darcy does, however, these days there is no practising because of new technologies.
I think you are a little bit cruel towards Miss Bennet. Mistaken as she is concerning Mr. Darcy, she seems to be overwhelmed by circumstances and I feel it reasonable to have such an attitude when both your beliefs and “stable” condition are threatened to be just an illusion.
FILM CLUB:
"The Reader"
Tuesday the 17th.
Golem cinemas (Plaza de España)
19.20
We will be wearing a black ribbon lest you should not know who we are.
Roberto, you have had me think about poor Lizzy. It´s true that we have been on Mr. Darcy´s side during the last chapters. We haven´t supported Elizabeth too much, and I´m afraid it is due to her rude answer. However we shouldn´t forget how difficult is change your mind and adapt oneself to a new situation, as it has happened to Lizzy.
On the other hand, have you seen F. Bacon´s exhibition? As Marta said, we could talk about it here a bit.
I´ve read all the comments at last, and I´ve enjoyed doing it. Rebeca of course we´ve been on Mr. Darcy´s side, it´s true we are hard on Lizzy but who wouldn´t he´s charming I can´t help myself, sorry!!
I have said that Lizzy shines where Darcy is at his worst, but I excuse him one always does when one is in love and I am in love with Darcy since I was 15...
He shows his feelings too, she is angry but he is rude and angry too when he is rejected, when you see the film you´ll see how well Colin Firth does this scene, you perceive the tension the disappointment the anger the fight. They both do it well in fact.
It is true that Eliza hides her feelings, but in that time it was normal, people just didn´t say how they felt. Everything was done underhand, Darcy is very honest to say what his doubts were, he is very modern in that. He is always honest, the thing is sometimes we don´t want so much honesty.
Dear 5THS: I´m very glad because some of my students have been, they´ve had a fantastic time. It is you whom we have to thank again and again for all the work you´ve done to carry out this contest. I´ll try and go this Tuesday if I can change the lesson. And of course they can always go for a drink that is the second asset of the plan!
Marta, Mr. Darcy is certainly a “proper” man and I hope he behaved in such honourable a way, were he poor and not wealthy.
Rebeca, I really suggest that you should go to Francis Bacon exhibition, you will enjoy it. In my case, I was content as his paintings make you think about their meaning and the impression they cause on you. Besides, just before the exhibition ends, there is an interview with the painter, and it is amazing how sensible this artist was and also to find out what he really meant by doing his paintings. You may learn many things about him, art and life.
Arantza, I think Mr. Wickham has no evidences at all when his accusations against Mr. Darcy are concerned; he latter, however, offers several witnesses supporting his statements. Besides, he does not tries to injury the former’s honour but demonstrate that Wickham is insicere; nevertheless, Wickham keeps offending Mr Darcy every time he meeets Elizabeth. And, as a rule, I’d rather believe those who try just to defend themselves against injustices than trust in those who enjoy criticizing when the object of such comments is not on the spot.
I hope you have reached chapter 40. If it be not so, please do not read the next quotes which I consider quite interesting related to the issue we are discussing:
“There certainly was some great mismanagement in the education of those two young men. One has got all the goodness and the other all the appearance of it”.
“Certainly. But the misfortune of speaking with bitterness is a most natural consequence of the prejudices I had been encouraging.”
I haven´t been to the exhibition yet but I´m sure Roberto you are right when you say that Bacon was a very sensitive man.
I agree with you too on the fact that Wickam produces no prove to what he says and Darcy does as he says that Colonel Fitzwilliam knows everything and he asks Lizzy to ask him if she wants to.
Both sentences are enlightning and they show the new perspective.
What a terrible mistake:
he does not TRY.
Others:
the latter
He meets
What a terrible mistake:
he does not TRY.
Others:
the latter
He meets
What a terrible mistake:
he does not TRY.
Others:
the latter
He meets
As you, Roberto, I have also found the greatness of F. Bacon´s exhibition on the meaning of its pantings. Not only do they transmit their author´s feelings, but also they show a different style of understanding the art. We could think they´re strange and diffucult to analyze, but although, indeed they are, we can also see a deep message inside them; build by what their painter wants to say to us. Of course, we can give them another significance, and that is, in my opinion, the secret of why the art is intemporal and inmortal. It can adapt to different times.
However, I´d have prefer seeing happier and more positive works of art! But I´d like they made me think about life too.
Oh! yesterday I wrote a post and today it isn't here!!!
Well, I'll try to repeat it.
I considered important to mention how sad Charlote was when her sister and friend left her house.
the price of a convinient marriage is clearly showed in that passage. Strong as Charlotte is, She conveys her depressed feelings due to the distance between her and her family and closest friends.
Roberto, both quotes are very representative about what was happening in the story. Rarely had Darcy given an afectionate gesture so far this moment, however never were his acts wicked. On the other hand, kind and bubbly as Wickam seemed to be, He was trying to put Darcy down whenever he could.
And obviusly, Lizzy was resentful with Darcy because of the first ball, and it has been determining her behaviour againts Darcy.
nowadays it's common to see things like that. Fashion, being a good mobile speaker, being fit,... are the guideline and no matter how kind you are, if your appearance isn't right you'll not get success
Rebeca, a very good comment, but I would have preferred, careful with the verbs! You have understood the painter I think which is not easy!
Cris two good comments and well-written. You are right Charlotte was sad but on the other hand she was not a dependent which she would have been had she not married I think she is better off with Mr. Collins considering all circumstances.
I agree that Wickham was the whole time saying something against Mr. Darcy he is a slanderer apart from other things, and the fact that he quitted when he had been invited to the ball shows his character in a very different light! He is a coward too.
After reading chapers 42 and 43, I think that Lizzy regrets her refusement to Mr Darcy´s proposal. Now, she is at Pemperley, she is seeing all the marvellous things that she could have had if she would have accepted Mr Darcy, she is hearing all these great coments which Mrs Reynolds is saying about Mr Darcy and she thinks that she has been so stupid
Hi, it's long since I last wrote on this blog,I'm afraid I am not going to read all the comments because I don't want to lose my eyes. I want to reach the end of the book, to see how Lizzy solves her problems with Mr Darcy. I want to think that the end is a great marriage between them, isn't it??
I agree with you Arantxa, Elizabeth regrets not having accepted Mr. Darcy´s proposal. But in my opinion, not only will she be sorry for having lose the chance of dwelling on Pemberly house, but also sharing her live with a so sensible an attentive man as Mr. Darcy. She has also realised she was wrong about Mr. Darcy´s temper, and I supossed She feel the powerlessness of not being able to change the past; she lost the opportunity of being Mr. Darcy´s wife, and this was a chance that will unlikely repeat again.
Nevertheless, I think we all wish it came true, don´t you?
Hi!
We'll attend to Lizzy's and Mr. Darcy's wedding, of course, Rebeca. I have no doubt about that. And we'll say: "...And they all lived happily ever after". How beautiful love is! Until this moment arrives, I want to talk about a comment Mr. Wickham makes (chapter 41): "...I must rejoice that he (Mr. Darcy) is wise enough to assume even the appearance of what is right. His pride, in that direction, may be of service, if not to himself, to many others, for it must deter him from such foul misconduct as I have suffered by". These words follow a Lizzy's comment about Mr. Darcy's improvement on acquaintance. Mr.Wickham reacts badly to these words ("Wickham's alarm now appeared in a heightened complexion and agitated look..."), which is a proof that Mr. Wickham is an arrogant man, although he speaks abou Mr. Darcy's pride. It's clear that the first impression we (and Lizzy) got about Mr. Wickham wasn't the real one.
Not only we said Lydia is a flirt (yesterday in class) but also her own family have the same opinion. They are happier because she is going to go far away, and she might learn something about life closer than Mrs Forster, however I think no matter where she is, she'll keep being a flirt and silly girl, She doesn't realise how much she makes a fool of herself over and over again.
A further advantage of her leaving could be Kitty's freedom, Kitty is so influenced by her sister than she is cloning her.
About Wickam I totaly agree with Itziar he is arrogant and he hasn't realised yet that Lizzy has change her mind about Darcy and the more he speaks about Darcy the more impertinent He is considered by Lizzy
Rebeca, I prefer classical paintings whatever their context should be as I enjoy analyzing characters, light, movement, perspective…
Cris, Charlotte independent, practical and mature, cannot help feeling ashamed of losing so amiable a companion as Miss Bennet is, and you perceive she must suffer from boredom by living with Mr. Collins and his obsession with Lady Catherine.
Aranzta, Miss Bennet certainly regrets having refused Mr. Darcy’s offer even though she believed herself right when doing it so. In my opinion, It is both her obstinacy and prejudice that make her uneasy.
Arancha you are right, now that she sees Pemberly she thinks she has missed something!
Rebeca, regrets having lost the past participle is what forms the perfect tenses. You are right she is now regretting it because Mr. Darcy is worth having.
I have just lost a very long comment I had written there´s no time to write it again only this for Roberto. Lizzy is Miss Elizabeth Bennet Miss Bennet is Jane, the eldest daughter. When doing so. Not IT so.
Cris don´t forget the past participle in d.
Have a nice weekend, I´m going hunting so I don´t know if I´ll be back, I´m scared stiff of weapons and bullets and there are thousands!! in a hunt. I´m going stalking so it´s 4 hours of suffering!
After reading chapters 41 y 42 we are witnesses of Elizabeth´s change, I mean, Elizabeth disagree with Lydia´s behaviour and it makes her feel anew the justice of Mr. Darcy´s objetions. Obviously the letter (Darcy´s letter) made a big impression on her and now, little by little, she is finding some point from the letter right.
Arantza, I don´t know if Elizabeth regrets her refusement to Mr Darcy´s proposal yet: I´m going to read chapter 43 just now, and after reading it I´ll post my opinion. Anyway,
Don´t foget that we have a contest on the film club and it is our last chance to bet today.
According to Roberto´s last comment, I agree classical paintings are better to analyze than modern´s ones, as they´re easier to understand (at least at first sight). Altough, not everybody has the capacity to draw deep conclusions from a paint (I´m afraid I belong to these ones), classical works of art are nearer to all of us, as we have studied them at school. However, don´t you think the real value of art is on its multiple possibilities of being understood?
Of course Mar, Lizzy is changing her mind, but had it changed before, we could enjoy her new warm relationship with Mr. Darcy more time!.
Where can we see if we have won the contest?Thank you
Rebeca, look at the top of the website and click on "our film club"
¡¡¡Please go to the Film Club!!!
We have the winner of the contest.
How was meeting Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth “in the flesh”? I believe BBC series to portrait quite faithfully the novel, every single character being perfectly well played. Could you see Mr. Collins?
Fond as I am of this blog, lately, there is no finding time so as to post comments however much I try. I am looking forward to posting properly.
Sorry.
Mar Elizabeth disagreeS, I agree with Arantza that Lizzy begins to regret having refused Darcy´s proposal as now she realises that she has judged him wrongly.
Roberto, the BBC series has portraid..... Yes I want to know how you feel about the encounter. I think they were fascinated by the film, although in that class you don´t see the T.V. very well. I think some of you were a little disappointed because you had imagined the characters different. Come on tell us what you thought!!
Thank you Mar, I´ll look for the winner there.
Yes Marta, I´m sure we all are wishing for watching the beginning of the film P&P, in order to check if its characters are as we imagined them. Hadn´t we met Mr. Darcy (thanks to your poster) we would´t want to see the others characters!
Rebeca the other characters! Adj isn´t plural ever please be careful because it is a pity to make those mistakes when your level is good.
And what do you think of the other characters? I want to see a few words of what you think about the film, the way it is done, etc.
We (advanced 1-A) watched the first part of the film last Monday, I enjoyed it very much. The Bennets are like I had imagined. I would like to comment on something about Mrs. Bennet.- in spite of her not being intelligent as a character, She is a fantastic actress, I was laughing after watching the scene in which she said “I am sick of Mr. Bingley” and Mr. Bennet answered “if I had known as much this morning, I certainly would not have called on him”, after those words she is superb.
I´m very much looking forward to watching the second part.
At length, I am at liberty to write about the novel. Great!
- Than you Marta for your corrections. I appreciate it.
- Mar, I also thank you for having encouraged people to visit our contest on the Film Club.
- Rebeca, neither I am. That is the reason why I prefer contemplating classical paintings, since you do not need be a genius so as to perceive, for instance, the correct use of colour and light. Besides, you may dwelling on gestures and situations easier.
I must acknowledge having felt envious last Monday by finding out that you were watching P&P. I would have liked to join you. Anyway, let us focus on the novel. What do you think Mr. Darcy must endeavour to do so that he might undo such a misunderstanding and, thus, conquering Elizabeth? What about the latter? Does she have any chance in order to undo her unjust behaviour towards Mr. Darcy or must she bear such a terrible mistake till the “man” takes the next step?
Have you seen Mr. Collins?
I really enjoyed watching the film last Monday. It was a pity I had to leave early and I couldn´t see the whole first part.
Bennet´s family it was as I had imagine reading the book. Elizabeth´s behaviour was a little bit pride when she meet Mr. Darcy the second time in the ball. And the smallest sisters were so foolish as their father thinks of them.
I would like to know which version of Pride and Prejudice we saw in order to watch by myself again the first part. Marta, could you tell me? thanks.
Roberto, you don´t need to be. You may be dwelling. Inf without to after modal verb, I´m sure they are slips because you write so well.
I agree with you that the classical paintings are easier but not easy either. I find it very difficult to see paints and value them, not when you go to the Prado and you see them, you know that they are all good but when you see a painting in an auction it is not so easy even if they are 19th century works. Don´t you agree?
We haven´t seen Mr.Collins yet the film stopped when they left Netherfield.
Yes what is Darcy going to do? I´m afraid at that time men had to do all the work, it was not a lady who went after men and flirted with them, the only good news is that Lizzy has finally realised that Darcy is not what she thought and that she is not what she thought she was either! So she had it all wrong!
She started to feel regret when she saw Pemberly too!
Pilar, the Bennets or the Bennet family(subject) was as I had imagined them. The youngest sisters are...as their father thinks they are.
It is the one done by the BBC and you have it in the library but please don´t watch more it will spoil the book and we don´t have that much more to read.
I´m glad you like the film I think it is very good but don´t forget, the novel is better. It is in the novel where we see all the characters where they live and where we really know how they are. The novel is unbeatable although I admit that the film is very good and Colin Firth deserves an Oscar for his role as well as many of the others, I agree with Mar, Mrs. Bennet is fabulous, but so is Miss.Bingley, and Mr.Bennet and Jane, so cold and collected as she is in the novel. I think the setting the houses, the clothes, the furniture, are all perfect.
The English are the best at this and you can see
What an inexcusable mistake.
Sorry!!
Hi!
I'm not as enthusiastic as Marta with the English (do the English do something wrong, in your opinion, Marta...?) but I have to accept that the film is fantastic. I enjoyed it a lot, even much more than the novel, I must say. I don't want anybody understand this point wrongly... I will explain myself: the novel is great, undoubtely, but in the film you can perceive not only what the characters say but also the tone of their voice. The way Mrs Bennet, Mr. Bennet and Mr. Darcy speak is really fantastic. Their tone of voice describes perfectly their personalities. The same happens with the way they walk, they move, they react, etc... So, from this point of view, I think that the film is better. The only problem I had when I saw it was the understanding. Although the accent of the charaters was perfect, it was a little bit difficult for me to understand all they said. I suppose that the guilty of this is my English level. It's not good enough, I'm afraid. Thank goodness that the film was subtitled!
I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with Lizzy in Pemberly...
Roberto, of course men should always take the next step, since were women so brave to do it, love would be boring and you would find an easier and less motivate way to conquer a woman. In my opinion, it is the essence of Mr. Darcy and Lizzy´s relationship. Eliza is resisting Mr. Darcy´s love, and he is finding difficult to reach her heart.
On the other hand, what could I say about the film? I have found it quite interesting, but as sometimes happens, watching the film after reading the novel usually disappoints the reader. However, and tough the characters weren´t as I have imagined, I have liked the atmosphere too much. I had prefered a younger Lizzy, but conversely, the male actors have surprised me, as they´re better than I thought.
Finally, I couldn´t finished this comment without talking about Mrs. Bennet. I agree with (I belive)all of you she is one of the best performed characters in the film. She is a little bit noisy, but she has also the capacity of waking up a smile in us.
Having met Mr. Darcy, Mr. Bingley and Mr. Bennet, how will be Mr. Collins?Aren´t you wishing meet him?
Itziar I do see many things that the English do wrong, but they have nothing to do with acting or creating an atmosphere, etc.
You´ve written a very good comment and I agree with you that hearing them speak is wonderful because they speak so well the acting is in most cases perfect, the way they move the way they look the way their hair is done.... I just think the film is superb and I tell you openly that the Yankees couldn´t have done it. Just take a look at Keiara Knightly´s version, it is horrible. I´m very glad you liked the film, just wait and see the rest it won´t diappoint you!
Rebeca an easier and less motivated way of conquering a woman- she is finding it difficult. Aren´t you wishing to meet him?
I agree with you the film is usually worse than the book and we are always a little disappointed. In my case I was disappointed by Lydia as I imagined her prettier and not so vulgar and in others too. I think that Mr.Collins is not going to be a disappointment but others will probably be. It is impossible for it not to happen. However I think the film is really good Mr. Darcy is perfect, Mr.& Mrs.Bennet are very good too and so is Miss Bingley and Mrs. Hurst. The way they talk and move as we have already commented is a great asset of the film and in general it is great, one of the best versions done. Much better than the one Olivier did in the 50s and that is saying quite a lot.
Where are your comments??
You have to practise and this is the best way because you can do it everyday!
How do you expect Mr. Collins to be? Handsome, tall, plain, elegant, fat?
Thank you Marta for your corrections. I Haven´t had the chance of watching the film performed by Oliver, but I´m sure It would be worse than that which we saw, since in my opinion this is more current.
I Have liked too much Miss Bingley, as she is as pretty as she has been described at the novel, and she also shows that superior air characterized by an excess of selfconfidence.
At the moment, I can´t imagine how will be Mr. Collins, but I hope to find him as a cheerful man.I will tink about his appearance.
Rebeca how Mr.Collins will be. You´ve done a very good description of Miss Bingley well done and I agree entirely with you the actress does a marvelous job. She is a snob a bitch elegant exactly as we imagined her.
I hope Mr. Collins convey the bore he is and the pest he is, let´s see.
Having just started to watch the film again, I consider it quite loyal to the novel; however, the latter keeps being better in my opinion. Thus, I am afraid, Iztiar, I do not agree with you. In the film, every single character has been perfectly well chosen, playing each role as I expected it to be when reading the novel. In addition, so successfully shortened is the story that you do not need to read it so as to analyze the characters and the situations in which they are involved properly. Nevertheless, it is this circumstance that makes me prefer the novel, since words grant the reader a wider portrait of characters’ feelings, conveying much more intelligence concerning how the characters really feel than the film does.
Again, I am not sure what chapters are you doing this week, so I hope not to disclose anything you have not read so far. In Chapter 47, formal and pompous as Mary seems to be the few times she is allowed to give her own opinion, I think her right when she mentioned her beliefs about Lydia’s disgraceful condition:
“Unhappy, as the event must be for Lydia, we may draw from it this useful lesson: that loss of virtue in a female is irretrievable- that one false step involves her in endless ruin- that her reputation is no less brittle than it is beautiful- and that she cannot be too much guarded in her behaviour towards the undeserving of the other sex”.
Do you agree, women, with such a statement?
I forgot posting in my first comment that you will for sure love Mr. Collin’s Character. By the way, in Chapter 48, he comes back “to the stage” by means of a letter expressing his condolence regarding Bennets’ distress for their daughter, the context of which shows perfectly, in my opinion, the sort of person Mr. Collins is. I could not help laughing when reading it even though the issue is not to be laughed at. As a curiosity, such an event takes place in the film in too different a way.
At length I have reached the time when Mr. Bennet (Chapter 48) makes good use of his witty and sarcastic personality by warning Kitty that he will no let any of his daughters behaves in such disgracefully a manner as Lydia has done, preventing them from socialism till they should prove a proper attitude. Kitty obviously breaking into tears, Mr Bennet says:
“Well, well, do not make yourself unhappy. If you are a good girl for the next ten years, I will take you to a review at the end of them”.
Splendid, isn’t it?
Roberto I´m not sure what chapters you are doing, no inversion in indirect questions.
I agree with you that the film is really good and the characters perfect. We are in chapter 45 in one group and 42 in the other more or less. I think Mary´s comment is true for the time but hardly a comforting one in those circumstances!
We haven´t got to chapter 48 yet so please don´t disclose what happens, we are still at Pemberly and the others are even further behind.
I think Mr. Bennet can´t help being as he is but quite honestly the circumstances are hardly for that comment! I can´t mention the circumstances!
Roberto I´m sorry but I have eliminated your comment because it disclosed too much. And thanks so much for all the others they are interesting and very well-written. You are wonderful at picking the quotes!
Never mind, Marta. It is my fault, I beg your pardon.
Thank you for the corrections. I realise that I might not deserve being in the 5th year by making such mistakes. It is high time I started to think about the issue.
How many comments have you post!I wanted to have your fluency at English in order to write as much as you. But also, I supposed it´s a question of practice, and if you all let me talk about something that has a far relationship with the novel, I´d like to tell you the next quote made by Woody Allen (I hope me be able to tanslate it properly);"The 90% of the success is lying on the insistence".
Then, and thinking in a deep way, don´t you believe Mr. Darcy is now making constant attempts in order to reach Lizzy´s love? So, and according to the quote, I hope they arrive to the end of the novel together.
I think that Mr collins will be short and uglu but elegant. I hope he be funny because of his personality.
In my opinion, the best character of the movie is Mrs Bennet. I don´t know the name of the actress but she is brilliant! She is like I was expecting, like in the novel
On the other hand, Jane is the one who has surprised me more. I thought we would be more beautiful, but at first I didn´t recognice her because all the sisters but Mary are similar
sorry, i mean UGLY, not uglu
Roberto honestly! Don´t say that your English is practically perfect. One rarely sees this level in students and also your brain is very good, sometimes the two things don´t go together!
Rebeca have you posted. With "have" you must put the past perfect not the inf without to. I suppose...I hope I can translate it properly. I think the quote is "90% of success is insisting". I agree with you, Mr.Darcy is trying hard to demostrate that he is not as Lizzy said he was. Maybe also, being intelligent he realises that she was right in some comments.
I agree that I also thought Jane would be more beautiful but if we look again she is beautiful according to the Romantic standards, I suppose they could have made her more beautiful with another hair style, not so stiff for example. You are right Mrs.Bennet is fabulous I think Mr. Darcy is the best at least he is the best Darcy of all the ones I´ve seen.
Precisely, there is something about Jane’s countenance that makes me doubt whether she is really so beauty according to the novel itself. Nevertheless, she is quite good in showing both shyness and her incapacity of distrusting other’s behaviour however deceitful they might be.
Rebeca, I am surprised for despite loving Woody Allen’s film (nearly all of them), I did not know such a quote.
Hello fourths! I was having a look to this thread and I´ve decided to write some lines. I would like to give my contribution here as Roberto does, but I don´t find time enough! I only wanted to say that I´m very glad you are using the Subjunctive, which you seem not to understand, as some of you said last day we met in the cinema. So, Congratulations!!!!!
seemED not to understand, I meant
Roberto, such a beauty or so beautiful. I think Jane must be a beauty undoubtedly as everybody recognises her as such. Even Mr. Darcy says you are dancing with the only pretty girl in the room. And then when they are commenting the ball the only criticism he can provide is: she smiles too much. But he grants that she is beautiful. Lizzy is beautiful too but not as Jane, Jane is the local beauty.
María thanks for your comment! We are trying hard to learn it and now we are with the cleft, all horrible things!!
Good night. As most of my mates, I haven´t neither found Jane as pretty as I expected. Nevertheless I supposed it is due to her clothing, since it´s a bit boring; I mean,it hasn´t many adorns, its colour is dull,...Of course I´m comparing it with Miss Bingley´s one, which seems to have more movement and shine.
According to our mental image of the characters, we can forget how wonderful can be the imagination, and that any film version cold never reach it, so it´s natural the actors were different from what we thought.
How Mr.Collins will be, is an other interesting subject. I imagine him short and little overweight, but with an expression of kindness and transparency.
Roberto, I found that quote in a book which was about how to improve ourselves (in a full sense). I got surprised too, since hadn´t I read it was made for him, I would never have belive it. I´m pleased you liked it, and I also hope it be useful for youall.
After reading chapters 43 and 44 I would like to comment on about the unexpected first meeting between Mr Darcy and Elizabeth at Pemberley gardens, it was very interesting. They were amazed at meeting each other. From my point of view it is one of the nicest moments between Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy.
Talking about the film, I´m very much looking forward to knowing Miss Darcy (Georgiana), chapter 44 describes her and says that She is more than sixteen, it makes me think that She is not Jane´s perfect rival, does she?
Rebeca, I haven´t found Jane pretty either. I suppose it is due, careful with the verb sequence they must be coordinated. How will Mr.Collins be? Inversion in a direct question.
Jane is a country girl, that is why she is plainly dressed, Miss Bingley comes fron London she is fashionable and elegant with the veneer of the city.
Mr. Collins short and fat? He must be pompous rather than kind. They said he was tall but I don´t know, I just say I don´t think you´ll be disappointed!
Mar, she is not Jane´s rival, is she?
I agree the meeting at Pemberly is delightful and do we see a change in Mr. Darcy? Has he realised that Lizzy was right in some of her observations and he wants to improve and change? Is he capable of changing? And how many people are? I think it is quite difficult to do so. Do you agree?
Thank you Marta, I didn´t remember how to write the sentence with either. I must admit that I sometimes try to take the opportunity you have given to us with this blog, and I write sentences which I´m not sure enough to be right of, in order to check if they were or not.
I don´t know why, but I imagine Mr. Collins as I´ve just described him on the comment above; fat and short. I supposed it could be due to I watched a tv programe where appeared a man like this one just after reading the chapter when Mr. Collins appeared for first time. Then, my mind made the connection.
Mar, I´m sure Miss Darcy is not a rival for Jane, since the first one is younger than her, and we haven´t seen any sign that Mr. Bingley were in love with her.
I agree with you, Marta. It´s very difficult people were able to change, even if they´re children. Then, our behaviour is not still fixed, and we are more malleable. According to it, while we are getting older, our capacity of adapting and changing decreases. However, I hope Mr. Darcy show us that change, as we all are wishing see Lizzy falling in love with him. Then, and as the novel has told us, the best way to reach it, is by Mr. Darcy´s change of attitude.
Rebeca, you are right. Everyone having his own perception of things, it is rather difficult to portray exactly what your mind makes up unless you are an artist, much less if it is other person who does it. In my case, I have not experienced such a feeling since I had already seen the film before starting the novel and I guess my mind framed the characters as I had seen them in the film.
When watching Mr. Collins, you have to focus on his manners and countenance which reflect perfectly well how so peculiar a character is described in the novel.
Mar, I agree with you even though I consider Mr. Darcy lucky as Elizabeth’s judgement of him having been completely unfair, he has no impediment at all so as to show how different he really is. I mean, that he cannot do other thing but improving.
Rebeca you do very well in experimenting but don´t do it in the exam, there write only in what you are sure about.
Due to my watching, gerund after prep, careful you sometimes make that mistake. It is very difficult for people to chance.
Roberto I absolutely agree with you that Darcy can only improve but will he? We have already seen at Pemberly that he can, he has changed, he is nicer and he is not resentful with Eliza which shows good feelings. Mrs. Reynolds´ description of his character, and she knows him since he was 4, places him in a completely different light, now we are before the perfect man and at the same time we know that he has flaws. That makes him human.
After reading the last chapters, I´m sure we all have noticed Mr. Darcy is nearer to the rest of the characters than he used to be. In my opinion, and according to it, the main facts that have contributed to changing our perception of him, are his flaws, as Marta said. It shows he is complete, and hadn´t it happened, we would still think about him wrongly.
On the other hand, and as we have just read chapters 46 and 47, I dare say how unruly and thoughtless Lydya has been! It gives the impression that she acts without thinking about the consecuences of her doings, and of course trying to praise herself. However, she is still a teenager, and she hasn´t been educated as to be able to control herself. She has grown up listening women must get a good husband in order to survive, soshe is answering her unconscious with this escape. But I hope she be finally intelligent enough not to get married with Mr. Wickham.
Ok Marta, I´ll risk while writing here, but, and taking your advice, I will be conservative at the exam.
Roberto, we will watch another piece of the film next week, so we will be able to meet Mr. Collins first time. However, and meanwhile, we´ll continue giving him different appearance.
Despite Mr Darcy’s pride, I am unable to see many more weaknesses in his character. Nevertheless, I believe it is Elizabeth that makes her mind up about his being such an insufferable man and I wonder why he is so ill treated. Is there something wrong with being shy, untalented to socialism and incapable of giving false compliments? Besides, he has suffered from prejudice because gossip and I dare say he was misunderstood from the very beginning. On the other hand, what did he do against Elizabeth but making an unfortunate comment concerning her beauty?
Rebeca well done you are writing better and better, very few mistakes in your long comment. Listening to comments like "women must get good husbands".
Lydia was heedless and she has really mucked up her life because in spite of the comments she heard she didn´t marry she just fled with an unsuitable man and a poor one too. What I disagree with is when you say that you wish she wouldn´t marry. That would be the worst thing possible! At that time to elope, and probably go to bed with a man and not marry him was a disgrace, the woman was ruined and the man too as a gentleman didn´t do that.
Roberto I think you mean untalented to socialising. I think your comment is otherwise perfect and you hit the nail on its head as usual. Mr. Darcy has only pride to regret. It is true that he is a little too stiff and he is ill at ease with the people he doesn´t know, but what is that compared to other faults that we all have? Lizzy is right, however when she says that that is not an excuse that he doesn´t try, but he is intelligent enough to take good note and try to change, something we can see at Pemberly when he is so nice to the Gardiners and Lizzy.
He is fantastic! What can I say? He is my hero! It is terrible to say this at my age!!
We (advanced 1-A) watched the second part of P&P yesterday so that we finally got to know Mr Collins. In spite of him being delightful as a character he is disagreeable as a man. Nobody (except Mrs Bennet) wants to listen to him for more than five minutes. I was laughing when he introduced himself to Mr Darcy and Mr. Darcy left him before finishing the conversarion. On the one hand it looks rude but on the other hand it is the attitude everybody wants to have. Even Charlotte (his wife) told Elizabeth that after getting married she found the way to spend as little time as possible every day with her husband as he was normally working in the garden or engrossed in his books. Charlotte found the right room in the house where she could stay without his company.
Talking about Charlotte, she is quite pretty. The novel describes her as an ugly woman but she is not; she is also a very good friend of Elizabeth. The film shows a very good relationship between both, the way they talk to each other, the way they kiss each other is really fantastic. However, in my opinion, the relationship between Miss Bingley and Jane is not good enough,. The novel describes them as good friends but after watching the film, Miss Bingley is so far from being a good friend of Jane´s, her behaviour in Netherfield, in London, and through the letters shows a very cold woman
.
I nearly think about Mr. Darcy at the same way as Roberto. I can´t understand why he has been so ill considered around Lizzy´s relatives and she herself. In my opinion, he is only different from what a man of those days was expected to be. He only finds difficulties to mix with other people. However, I don´t agree with what you think about Mr. Darcy´s first behaviours towards Lizzy. Then, and based on what women used to give importance, I´d like to clarify you why Eliza felt disappointed after listening Mr. Darcy´s hard comment regarding her look. I suppose she expected him to show an impeccable manners,as he was said to do, and that speech broke her first impressions down. I belive it was an aspect of self disappointing, I mean, when you have a picture made about someone´s personality, and you finally realised it was wrong, you usually get sad and even leave trusting on him/her.
However,and as it is usually said at this blog, Mr. Darcy has lot of virtues, and another thing that is even more important, is that these virtues are easilly recognized and valued by women.
On the other hand, I haven´t just understood why had Lydia got married with Wickham would have been better than she hadn´t. Then, why are her relatives looking for them? .
While reading the two last chapters, I thought understand her father went away Longbourn in order to avoid Lydia getting married with Mr. Wickham. Nevertheless, the only reason I can imagine why a wedding between them both would be more suitable than Lydia had been left by Wickham, is not to tarnish more her family´s reputation.
Finally, and after reading the three first lines written by Mar, I´m afriad I won´t read her whole text till my class had watched the second part of the film. I don´t want to know how Mr. Collins and Charlotte are yet!
Hi again. I didn´t want to spoil anybody the next events of the novel, but as we have been said to read chapter 48 and 49 during this week, I dare comment Mr. Collins´ letter, which belongs to chapter forty eight. First of all, I´ll say it has disappointed me very much. We just knew how Mr. Collins was, but I didn´t expected him being so rude and extremist. He told Mr. Bennet how wretch his family was, due to his sister´s fled. However, and being not satisfied with this comment, Mr. Collins shows himself happy for not having get married with Lizzy, as had he done it, he would have suffered the misfortune too.
In my opinion, this letter tarnished Mr. Collins´ image, at least for me, as I hope him be more diplomatic.
On the other hand, this chapter let us know how dreadful an event like this (an underaged daughter´s fuge with a man) could be on that time, and even today.
Mar a very good comment, we are not deceived, as Jane, with Miss. Bingley, of course she is horrible and rude, she treats Jane abominably, for she wants her brother to marry well, to marry Miss. Darcy and we must agree with her, that would be a better match for him undoubtedly, he is Mr.Darcy´s great friend he is rich and he married Miss Darcy he would marry advantageously. No wonder Miss. Bingley hates the Bennets they are in their way, they are an impediment to their brother´s advantageous wedding! It is human to want to prosper in life, but she is a bitch, no doubt about that
Rebeca, I think about Mr.D as Roberto, 1rst behaviour, to show impeccable manners, of self disappointment, had Lydia.... it would have been..,
I didn´t expect him to be, inf without to after auxiliaries, their sister´s elopement. At that time.
No Mr.Bennet went to look for them and make sure that they got married, it would have been a disgrace otherwise, now I don´t think it is a tragedy, nothing is nowadays but then it was terrible. Mr. Collins shows he is not a good Christian because there is no forgiveness in his words, my God the church should be the first to excuse, but that is very Puritanical.
I’m glad to have read such an amount of different perspectives concerning our characters. Rebeca, I believe Mr. Darcy vexed Elizabeth mainly because of the latter being proud. I really like Elizabeth though I get disappointed every time her mind rejects feeling hurt when events do not develop as she would have wished, always giving excuses so as to avoid having her pride injured.
Mar, Charlotte portraying the role of a woman who lives in such an epoch, so to say, conscious of her condition, practical and very mature; I sympathy with so sensible a character.
The more I read, the more convinced I am that, as a rule, it is always better being ignorant than conscious of both your own behaviour and personal condition. How content you may be with such a “weakness”, or should I say “value”?
Roberto I agree with you and talking about what Mar says about Charlotte I must say that I think she is sensible and does what she wants which is something, she chooses. I know that in the novel she appears as a somewhat negative character, as she isn´t able to marry for love and live all her life alone, a dependant, but I think she hsd the guts to do what she wanted of course at a cost. In the novel she is prettier than we expected in fact she is not bad-looking at all.
Do you think it is better to be unconcious of what you do? Maybe I don´t understand what you mean but isn´t that a bit dangerous? You would be like children who often don´t know what they do and what they should do. I don´t quite agree with you on that point, I think it is better to know.
Marta, I mean that you do not suffer provided you are not aware of what is going on around you. I wish we could go back and, thus, forget some "discoveries", the consequences of which made us upset. Can you see my point of view?
Hi everyone!I'm a fourth one.
I had made my own opinion about Mr. Collins by reading the book, but now that I have seen part of the film I could say that I have a complete one. In my opinion having shown the real character has helped me to understand more aspects about him. I think that the actor goes beyond my own idea of Mr. Collins. I find him such a unpleasant man, not only because of his way of act but also for his physical appearance with his dirty hair and strange way of looking. I don't like at all the way he is always trying to be as near as possible to his cousin Lizzy. The film also shows us the way he chose the one who could be his future wife. First of all, talking to Mrs. Bennet about Jane, and then, when he discovered that she will be soon engaged and had no possibility at all, he had a look to all his little cousins, Kitty, Lydia, Mary..and none of them seemed to be of his like until he put his eyes on Lizzy, the best choose.
Not only do I see your point but I also agree with you. Of course when we are not aware of things we are not unhappy. It is fantastic not to be aware of many of those things but who can stay away? It is not always easy.
Marian, his way of acting, the way he chooses, careful with the s of the 3rd person, the best choice.
I think that Mr.Collins is quite a success in the film, for me the actor does it quite well he is one of the good ones. I don´t like Mr. Bingley or Colonel Fitzwilliam or Mrs. Gardiner but Mr. Collins is affable but a pest, when he writes to Mr. Bennet about Lydia he shows his lack of charity and his Puritanism, but there are worse curates in English literature, he is one of the most comical and not as harmful as the others.
I really like Mr Collins and his pompous behaviour because I am sure he is not conscious at all of how pathetic his submissive attitude towards Lady Catherine is. That is the reason why I also love Mrs Bennet. Both of them share a feeling of "ignorance" about every thing happening around them which does not suit their own perspective of things. They only see what they really want to see.
Roberto a very good comparison. You are absolutely right. Lady Catherine and Mrs.Bennet are very similar in their way. They are both blindfolded to everything that is not what they want or how they want it to be. Lady C.is a snob and obssessed with her rank and her importance but just as silly as Mrs. Bennet in some ways, just as incapable of seeing what is important in life and how things really stand. Both equally deficient.
I entirely agree with you, Roberto; neither Mr. Collins nor Mrs. Bennet haven´t realised how the reality is yet. They live in a virtual world, and think events should happen according to their thoughts. It is in my opinion why trying to persuade them is so difficult. We have seen it in Mrs Bennet´s attitude towards Lydia´s wedding. Instead of being sad due to her daughter´s lack of chance of being happy by getting married with a man who doesn´t love her, she continues thinking of a woman must get a husband.
Their behaviour is also a little bit superficial, and in my opinion, they show that they haven´t enough self confidence, so they look for it outside them. In my opinion, Mr. Collins look for help in Lady Catherine, and Mrs. Bennet in her daughters´ lives.
On the other side, I´d like to focus how well chapter 50 describe The Bennet´s ecconomical situation, and other families like this one which belong to that time. We can see how important was to have a male child in order to be able to inherit his family´s goods. What do you think about that? I don´t agree with it at all, what happens with women then?
Rebeca, she continous thinking that a woman must... they look for it outside themselves. On the other hand. Chapter 50 describeS careful with the S it is very important not to forget it. How important IT was to have...
I think the system has advantages for the property that stays together, it is a way of keeping things. But it was dramatic for the women who had nothing to live on. That is why Charlotte married because she needed to have a husband. Austen is putting before us the difficult situation of women of position that were left with no means to provide for themselves as it was not done and they were not educated so they couldn´t work or provide for themselves, that is one of the messages of the novel. It is done very nicely but really the problem under hand is serious.
Thank you Marta for your corrections, they´re very useful for me, and I suppossed for my blog mates too, because we usually read other comments and their corrections too. And forgive me for making the same mistake nearly every day, "on the other side", instead of "on the other hand". I do not why I continue making it!
I agree with you the English´s system of inheriting is suitable for avoiding separate and even lose the properties, but I would introduce some changes, which, in my opinion, would made it more fair. Why couldn´t be the first child (male or female)the only heir/ess?. Then, it would be on lucky´s hand. However, I have liked too much how Jane Austen tries to support ourselves (women) showing this fact at her book.
According to my thoughts, the book we are reading has been, and even is, very important for the social progress of human being. It shows its black points, and how to remove them. In my opinion, there are many implicit solutions in the novel, but we must look for discovering them, and to analyze every chapter is a good way for reaching it.
Rebeca, avoid takes the gerund so you must put separating and even losing. On the hands of luck, lucky is the adj. Jane Austen tries to support us, as the subject and the object are not the same person here.
I don´t know if the English are prepared to do that. Tradition is very important for them and if the law says it is the men who inherit then it is the men regardless of women´s rights. One day they´ll have to do it but... when?
This novel is a good example of the English customs in a certain social sphere and it shows the way they acted and felt, their problems and worries, their entertainments, etc. There is nothing of the sordid reality of the war that was going on of the suffering, that is not present. Jane is ill but she recovers quickly, Mrs.Bennet says "nobody dies of a cold" when that was in fact not true many people did as penicillin didn´t exist.
The novel shows us the best in life, it is very good to read if you are depressed!
I´m very glad you appreciate my corrections, don´t worry reread before posting, you´ll get rid of them! You have improved, read your first comments and you will see.
Lydia’s amorality is evident but I´m sure that more of us can believe her capable of her elopement. But I can´t understand very well Wickham´s decision, I mean, he never distinguished Lydia by any particular attention, the only reason I find for his attitude, as he dosen´t mind losing either his honour or his decency, is that he will deal with Bennet´s family something interesting which will let him live without debts.
In chapters 47 and 48 we have read many letters. How importat were letters at that time!. In critical situations the arrival of letters was the first grand object every day. Talking about letters I woul like to comment on Mr Collin´s letter. At first sight it looks a formal letter full of kindess, however, in my opinion, it is a letter in which Mr Collins shows, without shame, his selfishness: “... And this consideration leads me moreover to reflect with augmented satisfaction on a certain event of last November, for had it been otherwise, I must have been involved in all your sorrow and disgrace”. He is also quite imprudent when he talks about Lydia: “the death of your daugther would have been a blessing in comparison of this” , “... live her to reap the fruits of her own heinous offence”. Obviously, with those words, he has taken off part of his apparent formality and shows his resentment after being spurned by Jane and Elizabeth.
I agree with you Marta; I´m finding the novel very entertaining and even amusing. I mainly appreciate its positive atmosphere, since though it were telling us something sad or criticizing the Eighteenth century´s society, its words are warm and its messages sensitives and very usefull.
On the other hand, I think Mar is righ; Mr. Wickham´s wicked mind only wants to reach any benefit from any circumstance. You only have to remember when Mr. Darcy told Lizzy he had asked him for many money after his father died. However, and as Mr. Bennet tells in chapter 51, it could have been prevented if they had keep an eye on Lydia´s education since her first years. But in my opinion, we can´t blame Lydia, because she is only a teenager, and she has grown up listening her mother says that a woman must find a good husband.
Finally, I´d like to praise how beautiful writing letters is. At that time it was the only way of getting in contact with someone (besides the telegrams)who was abroad. Then, reading the novel´s letters we can learn another thing about how later societies were some decades ago. Of course, Mr. Collins´s letter is wonderful, but a little bit rude too.
Sorry, much money...
Mar, I agree with you completely! I like the quotes you´ve chosen it is true that Mr.Collins shows his resentment he is not at all a Christian, he has all the possible faults and he was not as Mr. Darcy capable of changing.
Rebeca, you are right about letters they are beautiful, I remember getting letters at school in England and it was wonderful, to read the news. It´s a pity we´ve lost the custom the email is not a substitute, a letter has to be well-written and an email is trash.
I think that Wickham went off with Lydia stupidly as men do sometimes, they go with a woman for no reason at all, for fun i.e. sex and that is what Wickham probably did, he had no intention of marrying her why should he act so stupidly? Well it is true he is not bright or he would have caught Miss King. Lizzy was very blind and somewhat stupid when she fell for him so!
You all are right, Wickham is the sort of man I hope never to become, however, you can see that men like him seem to attract women’s eye and I really do not know why for despite his being quite charming when addressing women, there is nothing else.
Every time I watch the film and see Mr. Darcy writing a letter I feel like doing the same, though, as you know, nowadays nobody is willing to do such a thing. There is only solace by writing Christmas cards, something which I still keep doing. Anyway, Mr Collins’ last letter reflects perfectly, in just a few words, how such a character is: pitiful!!
As for the legacy issue, I am really sorry for women living in such an epoch, with no right at all to manage business as men did. What a pity! By the way, I have just finished the novel and I am looking forward to starting “Sense and Sensibility”, the film of which, again related with these matters, I like it very much.
After watching the second and the third part of the film in class, I would like to say that definitely, my favourite character is Mrs Bennet. She is fantastic, the way she is always shouting and crying, especially when the familiy don´t know anything about Lydia.
On the other hand, I have read your posts about Mr Wickham and I agree with you. In my opinion Wickham didn´t want to get married with Lydia, he just wanted to dissapear with a girl and the only girl who was near him and who was ready to do that was Lydia. And after all, he has achieved some money from the Bennet´s uncle.
Finally I think that the novel is more and more interesting, I am interested in knowing more details about Mr Darcy and Lizzy
Arantza, I agree with you about Mr. Wickham and Lydia.
By the way, don't you find strange Mr. Darcy's disappearance in these chapters? I hoped to have a letter from him to Lizzy.
Maybe he's engaged with more interesting business, in any case, we will see.
It´s true technology force us to forget old wonderful traditions, as writting letters or even meeting with someone to have a coffee. However it makes our live easier or... not?. Anyway, I belive it´s important that people be able to adapt themselves to the new times. It´s connected with Mr. Darcy´s behaviour, which has changed a lot since we first met him. We can also see his opposite, Mr. Collins, a stubborn and inflexible man.
On the other hand, I must admit that I feel as my female mates; we are all waiting for knowing more about our couple of this year; Lizzy and Mr. Darcy.
Nowadays we live in the society of the information, and that means facilities to know what it is happening wherever and whenever. Nevertheless, we musn't forget the proximity which a letter offers. I mean, with an email we do not receive a paper which has been touched and written by the other person. A letter is a better substitute to the physical contact.
I´ve read all your comments and they are not only interestiog but also true. I like what Raquel says about the contact I had never thought of a letter in that light and it makes them different! It´s a very nice thought don´t you agree?
Yes it´s true where is Mr.Darcy? I´m afraid he´s probably fled after the catastrophy of the elopment. Can you imagine what that means for such a man? Family disgrace is something that is difficult to overcome specially in that time.
As for the actors I like Mr. Bennet too he is very good, most of them are quite good. Do you know that Colin Firth, who is universally ackwnoledged as Mr. Darcy the perfect the best ever, refused to do it thinking that he was not adequate for the role. It was the producer who convinced him as she had worked with him and realised he would it very well!
I agree with you Raquel, but we also must be conscious taht we heven´t enough time to write, as, for example, Lizzy and Mrs. Gardiner had many years ago. They didn´t work, and they couln´t enjoy so many entertainments as we used to do nowadays. They had more leisure time, which could be used for writing letters. Nevertheless, we should try getting back that worth tradition.
On the other hand, have you read Mrs. Gardiner´s letter just? When you have, please, tell us what you think about it. I belive it is quiite interesting.
I have been dwelling on Miss Bennet and Elizabeth’s feelings when being in love is concerned, both of them unwilling to admit that they are in love actually. I guess, we all behave in such a way so as not to be disappointed should the beloved not feel the same for us. Thus, I wonder whether we must risk ourselves for so uncertain a merchandise even though circumstances should reveal a sea of troubles.
Rebeca, as we usually do nowadays, or as is usual nowadays.
We haven´t read the letter yet,still quite a lot to go!!
Roberto, I agree that they keep quiet about their feelings as people used to do in the old times I think we are more open now, like the Americans and we tend to confess all our feelings and worries. Even in our parents´time they were more reserved, don´t you think? We live in the age of communication, we must communicate at whatever cost!
After knowing Lydia and Wickham´s settlement, through Mr Gardiner´s letter, also after knowing that Mr Gardiner gave them a sum of money, I would like to make a comparison between Mr and Mrs Bennet´s reaction. Mr Bennet begged to know further particulars for what he was indebted to his brother (Mr Gardiner), nevertheless, Mrs Bennet, finds the payment he did normal as he never gave them anything except a few presents. I think that Mr Bennet´s attitude is quite responsible but Mrs Bennet´s thoughts show a selfish mother, who is happy because of the marriage of her youngest daugther which had been the first object of her wishes. Now she will inform Lady Lucas and Mrs Long about the news. By the way, it has been a long time since we read about Lady Lucas and Mrs Long.
I also want to comment on Elizabeth´s feelings. I mean, it is in chapter fifty that I see Elizabeth misses Mr Darcy: “... She was convinced that she could have been happy with him; when it was no longer likely they should meet”. In my opinion, not only does she miss Mr Darcy but she also regrets rejecting him: “ ... She began now to comprehend that he was exactly the man, who, in disposition and talents, would most suit her".
Mar regrets having rejected him. You have commented a very important thing. Lizzy who prided herself on her discernment now realises that Mr. Darcy is her cup of tea!!! Well darling Lizzy you are a bit slow!!! And she had to see Pemberly too! No, honestly and seriously, now she sees that Mr. Darcy is perfect because he also has shown he has changed. He is capable of what few people are of learning and trying to change. He was cleverer than her because he saw that she was good for him at very early, and she is as she will make him more open and relaxed which he already is.
Mrs.Bennet is of course always wrong, I don´t think she is even aware of what her brother has done.
Rebeca you are right, now we have no time to write (except by Internet). I haven't read Mrs. Gardiner's letter, actually I am in holidays so I will do it in the travel to come back (it will take me 7 hours).
I would like to point out something about Eliza's behaviour. Maybe she was afraid about future, and she didn't want to realize her feelings towards Mr. Darcy or whoever other man. Now that she knows her future with him maybe interrupted because of her sister, she is regreting her own manners. Don't you agree?
Greetings from Finland
"She (Mrs Bennet) was more alive to the disgrace which her want of new clothes must reflect on her daughter's nuptials, than to any sense of shame at her eloping and living with Wickham a fornight before they took place". This sentence summarizes Mrs Bennet's toughts and way of being perfectly. As some of you have said, Mrs Bennet lives in her world, which is completely different to the real world. We can perceive the distance between Mr and Mrs bennet one more time. Mr Bennet has nothing to do with his wife and Mrs Bennet has nothing to do with him. And although this is not the idea of a perfect marriage, there are a lot of couples who get marry because of "that's what we have to do", I'm afraid. The clever husband and he fool wife... It's a topic but we still see it nowadays
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