Jane Austen (1775-1817) is one of the greatest English women novelists. This, her most popular novel, features the novelists´favourite heroine, Elizabeth Bennet, and most women´s favourite hero, Mr. Darcy.
We know that all our students will enjoy the novel so please join in with your comments!
7 de octubre de 2008
"PRIDE AND PREJUDICE" (Jane Austen)
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Wilkie Collins
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«El más antiguo ‹Más antiguo 201 – 400 de 729 Más reciente› El más reciente»Marta: what did we have to do with TO BE OR NOT TO BE?
This is the third time I write about Carmen's letter. I think it is great and I believe most of us have had the same feelings the first time we entered a place because noone knows what is going to happen. But if both, teacher and students make an effort, it will probably be a great year.
angela a1b
Hello!
I have been reading chaters 13 and 14 and i want to talk about Mr Collins. I don´´t know exactly how is he, i think he is not very inteligent, he seems very stupid because of some ridiculous comments that que makes. For example, when Mr Bennet asks him if the delicate compliments that he makes to the ladies proceed from the impulse f the moment or are the result of previous study, he explains that they are the result of study but he tries to make them spontaneus.
We will see in the next chapters how is he.
Vicente I don´t quite see Mrs. Bennet as Channing she is much more cunning, Mrs.Bennet is more harmless and stupid, she is not that artful, you have to be intelligent for that. I think Noemí has hit on the right adj. Mr. Collins is more vain and pompous because he is not intelligent and lacks self-confidence, he is always looking to see what he can get. I think Mr. Darcy though proud and standoffish is much better, more honest.
Roberto thank you for your words help and encouragement to both students and us. It is students like you who make us go on. And to the 4ths look out for what Roberto says, see how well he expresses himself and the standard he has reached and all that because he worked hard, but it pays!! We are nothing without you and your work so please follow R.´s advice.
I want to know what you think of Mr.Collins.
Angela, make a move. I believe you but you must check they are there, your comment has been published.
How do you think Mr.Collins is going to make amends?
Do you think that Mr.Darcy could possibly be jealous of Mr. Collins when Mr. Collins has so little sense?
We have to continue discussing him because he is quite a character.
Hello!
I have only read chapters 12, 13 and 14, so for me it is too soon to judge Mr. Collins. However I find interesting how the language is used depending on the characters, and in the case of Mr. Collins the language is so pedant so he looks like ridiculous.
It is funny when he is asked whether the compliments he uses are previously thought or they are spontaneous, and the answer is that he whishes them to look like unstudied (but they are).
I think he is introduced as a clumsy person, but that´s what make him suitable for the story: he means the alternative for the heritage of an eventual marriage with Mr. Bingley, so I suppose Mrs. Bennet will be even more focused to gain Mr. Bingley due to her disliking to Mr. Collins.
What do you think?
Wow Angela! How can you imagine the plot of the next chapters?? Are you a visionary?
I think we have not read enough to make a right description about Mr. Collins (apart from Angela). However, the author let us to know he will be a very important character. The way in which he describes Lady Catherine shows he judges people well or bad according to the money or the social level they have, so in my view he is evil and not at all intelligent. That is not the way a prior should be. Maybe with his compliments he will can achieve that Mrs. Bennet and her doughters trust him, but not Eliza and Mr. Bennet.
Marta, thank you for your corrections.
thanks, Roberto for your compliments, you really are the best example of what I always say, learning needs both a good teacher and a good student and you are THE BEST my only 10 last year!
Congratuations to the 4ths, and to you Marta, sice you´ve come they are working better and you are catching up.
Mr. Collins: have you seen ever anyone more stupid? and he slithers like a serpent, purring like a happy cat,round Lady Catherine´s ankles... he is the type of sucker that rich or powerful people have about them; believe it or not i´ve seen it in some students, teachers when speaking to the their superiors..and you know what is really amazing? The ones to whom this adoration is displayed do not seem to notice it!! or perhaps it is that they like it! I find him really funny, the first dinner at Longbourn, with Mrs. Bennet thinking that he is contemplating the furniture as if he was valuing it is fantastic. The best being Mr. Bennet´s hope that he proves to be as stupid as Mr. Bennet anticipates.
Angela don´t worry the same has happened to me, yesterday I posted a comment and it is not here!
Do you think it is possible for Mr. Darcy to be jealous of Mr. Collins? Frankly I think it is difficult.
Roberto thank you for your words your encouragement and your opinions, we couldn´t do it without however, it is the people like you who make us go on.
I´d love to read what you think about Mr.Collins.
I feel a little bit uneasy on account of the praise I had been receiving so far. Sincerely do I appreciate it though I am not sure whether it is truly deserved. At any rate, everything said concerning both Marta and Carmen’s teaching, I did it with the utmost objective perception and I reject any attempt of flattering.
Mr. Collins, what a character!
Despite so pompous, haughty and solemn a behaviour, he keeps acting moved by his principles thinking himself to be kind towards his relatives by scarifying his current privileged condition for Bennet’s sake. However, he is many times doomed to bear unjust comments together with awkward situations, not being regarded at all. It is a sentiment of injustice that makes me anxious to analyze why I feel sorry for him. Were you in the same situation, wouldn’t you proceed in the same way as he does?
Being conscious of the disagreement happened between his father and Mr. Bennet related to the inheritance issue when the latter dies, Mr. Collins begs for a new epoch in which both sides may get on properly. Excessively grandiloquent as his manners are, Mr. Collins makes an interesting offer under such circumstances so that Bennet’s do not suffer the consequences of such an inconvenient situation as the future decease of Mr. Bennet’s will bring to them, in short, marrying one of the Misses (remember that all the sisters are unmarried). However, and surprisingly as well, it is only Mrs. Bennet that seems to be for the arrangement.
On the other hand, his pathetic submission towards Lady Catherine leads him to over value such an honourable distinction even though his behaviour should be consider quite reasonable, since Lady Catherine the Bourgh embraces a very important social status.
Finally, Mr. Collins’ character is funny, for his conviction and determination prevents him NOTICE its pitiful results.
Perhaps in the story is someone willing to appreciate his “virtues” and position in life.
Sorry, I made a mistake:
... prevents that HE notice..
Yesterday I wrote a comment, and now it has disappeared!
Hello all of you. It has passed a lot of time since my last comment here.I don´t know why, because I thouht I had written not many days ago.I suppose I forgot it because my memory is too full now, so It has difficulties to remember. On the contrary, It doesn´t happen with Lizzy´s one, so she is able, not only to remember every characteristic of Mr Darcy´s behaviour towards her, but to realise he is very found of her.It has contributed that, before reading some chapters more, the novel begins to like me more than at first.I think that It´s also due to our classes´ conversations about it, that have got we reflect about the diferent personalities that we can find at nowadays, not only those that belong to the las two centuries.
Raquel, don´t worry; It has hapened to me at least one time. Try it again, and It help you to train your brain by remembering what you wrote!
I don´t think Mr Darcy will be jealous of Mr Collins, because I think he knows Lizzy will not marry him, because she is not in love with him.
I think Kitty and Lydia are a bit obssesed with the officers, and with the ball Mr Bingley is going to give.
Hi!
I completely agree with you, Angela. I don't trust Mr Collins and I think neither do the Bennets. Mr Collins is like those people who show their best face, smiling and flattering everytime. They are the worst becasuse it's impossible to know what they are really thinking. Mr Collins knows that he has the upper hand because he's the next in the entail. After Mr Bennet's death, Mrs Bennet and her daughters will loose everything they have. For that reason Mr Collins thinks that he can do whatever he wants. But maybe Mr Collins is surprised bay somtehing soon. After all, in life the intelligence and the manners are more important than money.
Let's wait a little and we'll discover how the history finishes...
I´ve tried to post a comment three times and I don´t know what´s wrong but it doesn´t appear!
Roberto thank you for your words they are really encouraging but I must say it is people like you who make us go on. I´d love to hear your opinion of Mr. Collins, so please post it if you can I don´t know what´s wrong but I don´t seem to be able to post anything!
Angela do you think that it is possible for Mr.Darcy to be jealous of Mr.Collins?
Hello, first of all I´ll say that I have written this midday at this seccion of the blog, but my comment isn´t here! I don´t know if i´mgoing to be able to remember all what I tried to capture.
I told that I have realised, trough the last trhee chapters I have read, that Lizzy is very intelligent, and nearly as clever as a woman should be related to men´s relationships. She has a prodigious memory, so she can remain all that Mr Darcy has done. I mean, first, she realised he has fixed his attention on her, so she (as Mr Darcy tries to do)attemps to show herself as not to be aforesaid. But on the other side,she can´t forget Mr Darcy´s actions towards her. In my opinio she is showing a part of her feelings towards him, and I think it´s better they were hidden at firs, in order to save her from harm.
Hi, I´ve just seen my losen comments, but they didn´t appear on the official page, they ´re only when I´m writting. Why it happens?
I think I have finally managed to fix this I don´t know if for a long time. Angela I´m glad you´ve read the letter, what about the others? I want you to be able to write so and reading literature you´ll be able to do so.
Read the to be or not to be and we´ll comment it in class.
Arancha you are right about Mr.Collins and his compliments, he is false and Mr. Bennet and Elisabeth see it.
Jesús I find it interesting,do you think that Mrs. Bennet is going to give up Mr.Bingley´s fortune for Mr.Collins´? Mr. Bingley is far richer.
Thank you Carmen, I think your image of Mr. Collins purring round Lady Catherine´s ankles is fantastic! And the comment about Mr. Bennet too, he only finds satisfaction in that half funny half sarcastic sense of humour.
Roberto you are right in saying that he meant well when he wanted to make amends to his cousins, but he does it only because Lady Catherine tells him to marry and being so little in society maybe he thought he could find a suitable wife there, and it would be less trouble to him than having to look elsewhere.
At the same time he thinks well of himself, because he is doing a good act, but really he is trying to please his patroness!
Rebeca you like the novel, the novel can´t like you. I don´t think that Lizzy is aware that Mr. Darcy finds her attractive, I think she would be surprised if she could read his mind, Mr. Darcy is cautious and he doesn´t show his feelings. Miss. Bingley being a rival, is the only one who realises Mr. Darcy´s interest because he gave her a hint.
You are right kitty and Lydia are obsessed with the officers, and yes Mr. Collins in not a rival for Mr. Darcy, he is not at all attractive, he is a prig.
Itziar a very good and true comment, I agree with you. You´ve written it well too, well done.
Rebeca is right the more you write the quicker you´ll be.
Rebeca don´t you think that Lizzy dislikes Mr.Darcy rather than the contrary? Why does it happen? you should have said, the auxiliary must always appear in a question when the verb is not itself an auxiliary.
I´m very pleased with your comments let´s keep it up
What about Carmen´s letter have you read it?
Don´t forget your 10 minutes listening every day ok?
Hi!
Angela, I understand you are a little bit ungry because your comment doesn't appear on the blog. The same happened to me yesterday!! My "speech" must be in this moment travelling around the inmensity of the space! Computers... I don't get on well with them, at all
I'll start again... I agree with all of you who don't trust Mr Collins. Don't the Bennets neither, I think. He shows his best face everytime. He smiles and flatters all the time. This type of people are the worst. It's impossible to know what they are really thinking. Mr Collins knows that he has the upper hand because he's the next in the entail. After Mr Bennet's death the ladies will loose everything. Mr Collins feels that he has the power to do whatever he wants but maybe he's wrong. After all, intelligence is most important than money in life. I'm sure the family has a big surprise prepared for him. Let's wait a little and we'll see how the history goes on...
Oh, my God! I was wrong. I've just realized that the comment I wrote yesterday is on the blog... Yes, there is. Sorry for my complaints and my words about the computers... I don't get on well with them, anyway... They do what they want and nobody can fight against them...
Neither do the Bennets, is that what you want Itziar?
This type of person is the worst, how the story goes on.
You are very right that intelligence is far better or beauty for that matter, beauty can get you a long way along if you ask me.
Yes, there it is, don´t ever forget the subject, it is the first thing that appears in English and it is always there.
The same happens to me I just don´t get on well with computers but they are marvelous and we must take advantage of them.
Noemí said that Mr. Collins was vain and it is true, he lacks confidence in himself but vanity helps him get along he is full of his success after having got the post Lady Catherine gave him.
Hello!!after reading various posts and after hearing what it was said yesterday in class I can say taht maybe I'm wrong about what I said about Mr Darcy being jealous on Mr Collins. I hadn't thougt that he was so simple to deserve Mr. Darcy's jealousness. OKKK! I'M WRONG because as I have to prepare the next chapters, I've been reading ahead and there appears Mr Denny, hmmmm, I'm not going to say a word, you'll have to read it if you want to know what will happen.
Bye
angela a1b
As children say Angela HOT, HOT, HOT, there were two officers, Denny and Wickam..... In the next chapters the story gets more and more exciting, don´t worry about midjudging whatever. It is good to analise and if you miss the point once you won´t another time. The important thing is to participate and to post and to discuss ideas. That makes us think and understand better.
By the way I forgot to tell Jesús, that I´m glad that he finds the "horrible" vocabulary suitable to the situation.
Roberto you are right in saying that Mr. Collins has some virtues, thus he has been rewarded with a good situation in Lady Catherine´s estate. He definitely wants to make up for the unjust situation the sisters will suffer from when Papa dies...but he is such a fool!! he is so pompous, so elaborate in his rhetoric and so cofused in his thoughts! Mrs. Bennet does not have any sense but she is worried about her daughters´ future; Mr. Collins, the other fool is also worried about their future, both fools show a certain amount of generosity; they are both insufferable if we have to spend an evening with them, can you imagine sitting next to either at a dinner party? Mrs. Bennet can be more barefaced and insult those she dislikes, Mr. Collins, being a dependant, until he inherits Longbourn would never do that, he has been brought up to be humble, he is less harmful than Mrs. Bennet. What do you think?
I agree with Marta that the important thing is we give our opinion, last week I made a misjudge about Mr Darcy and Lizzy's dialogue. After Marta gave me a new point of view more convinient. If I had written it I'd have missed the correct meaning of that situation.
I don't think Mr Darcy is jealous from Mr Bingley, They are different and He knows that Elizabeth looks for intelligence more than a cheerful man. And other important point, Lizzy loves Jane, and she realizes that her sister is vere interested in Mr Bingley, for this, She is never going to flirt with Mr Bingley.
Mrs Bingley noticed that Mr Darcy likes Lizzy, but in my opinion She can't do anything to conquer Mr Darcy's heart, he likes witty people not silly girls.
Mr Collins isn't well-known yet, He is silly, and vein as well, but He is also proud of knowing important people as Lady Catherine
Now, I dare to say, Mrs Bennet will make a bigger effort to marry Jane with Mr Bingley, and the others with the first oportunity they have.
Carmen, at a further point of view, I disagree with you according to the dangerousness that could mean Mrs. Bennet and Mr. Collins. I belive they´re inoffensives enough to let The Bennet´s sisters manage to govern their owns lives. In my opinion, the bigger threat that could prevent them to be as happy as they deserve, it´s the own society. As far as I concerned, and based on the novel´s ideas, those days people lived among too many worries, that were caused by what people deliverated the others ones could think about each other.
Mr Collins wants to marry with Elizabeth!!!! and Mrs Bennet agrees!!! I can belive this, but when Lizzy discover this I think she will refuse him, if Mr Darcy isn't her ideal husband so far this chapter, Mr Collins has less virtues to get Lizzy's love.
The novel is getting more and more amazing, and these new chapters seems to have a lot of new characters, and crazy information to enjoy us.
So next class we'll have to tell long.
I'm going to Galicia right now, maybe I'll be able to write until the long weekend finishes.
I'll post on tuesday
Cris:("the important thing is that we...") you are very right about Mrs. Bennet, she is going to do everything possible to marry them to whoever so long as they marry, but what about the new prospect that Mr. Collins unveils to her? I think there we see that he is fickle and that his feelings are very frail to say the least!
I don´t think Lizzy ever flirted with Bingley from the start it is clear that he likes Jane and that Jane corresponds him.
Rebeca The Bennet sisters is better we don´t need the S. Genitive there. ...the only thing that could prevent them from being happy is society itself, ok?
I don´t think Collins or Mrs. Bennet are particularly dangerous, she is a bit low and that´s not a help, but.. Mr. Collins is too silly so I don´t think he can be dangerous either, I agree that society is probably what is to be feared.
Cris have fun in Galicia, I´m in Santander and it´s raining I hope you are luckier!
Crazy information to make it more entertaining or fun.
Yes, marry Lizzy! indeed it is a surprise, isn´t it? First we learn that Mr. Collins has few feelings, he changes too quickly, in fact, he probably didn´t fell anything for Jane either, "..it was soon done" the change from one to the other.
I suposse Elisabeth is going to have a fit. Just imagine! After she exchanged those knowing looks with her father!!
How about the new that appear? Denny and Wickam, what do you think of them any new suitors?
Well here is a question for you to think over the week-end.
Is Elisabeth going to fall in love?
and with whom?
Or rather I should have said: Has Lizzy fallen in love?
I see that you are all away,this is a message for CAROLINA 4TH B,:
CAROLINA: I have a ticket for you for the 9th to see Hamlet, let me know urgently if you want it, I have to sell it
Marta answering your last question (nice homework for this weekend) I would like to give you (all of you) my opinion.-
Reading P & P my first thought was that Elizabeth fell in love with Darcy the moment she saw him, but her pride has been wounded.
My second though was that Elizabeth gradually came around and began to fall in love with Darcy, but it was difficult for her to overcome the prejudices
that had been imposed on her by both herself and Darcy.
Elizabeth even begins to think she may be in love with Wickham but I guess it doesn´t happend ...
Certainly she is not in love with Mr. Collins
Sleep tight! and I wish all of you a nice weekend
Same to you I´m in the North so I´m soaked through!
This is the dilemma, Wickham! I don´t think Lizzy is in love with Mr. Darcy she has an antipathy for him which she expresses clearly when she says he hates everybody, it is Darcy who in spite of himself is attracted to her. In my opinion on the other hand, she feels something for Wickham as she likes him the moment she sees him.
Wickham has charm, that is for sure. He is also the only really hansome man in the novel, according to Austen, and he appears right next to Mr. Collins who is the opposite, i.e. not at all charming.
I do not know why I sympathize with Mr. Collins but in spite of his odious politeness and false humility, I think him to be ruled by principles and circumstances. He has been told to marry and due to the fact that he has reached so quite interesting a position, is there something more agreeable than making a proposal to one of Mrs Bennet’s daughters knowing he will be also helping them with the inheritance issue? I am glad that, at least, there is someone in the story willing to acknowledge his “qualities” and privileged position. Besides, Bennet’s keep criticising their cousin even though they are probably not the best instance of a proper behaviour, for the times all of them have met with Mr. Darcy and Co, they have shown themselves rather vulgar, haven’t they?
Yes Roberto that is true, but isn´t it a bit false to jump from one to the other in a moment? That shows that he has very little feeling if any. First he marries because Lady Catherine tells him to, not because he really wants to marry and then he shows he doesn´t think about the person he choses, the only thing I´ll say for him is that he chose Jane and then Lizzy, the best, not Mary or Kitty but I suppose he didn´t consider them because they were too young.
He is not a scoundrel but he is reveres rank too much.
Not all the Bennets are terrible, Jane and Lizzy are nice and so is Mr.Bennet, Kitty is under Lydia´s influence but maybe she is not so silly as her. And Mary really is similar to Mr. Collins but without revering rank so much, she has little sense to be sure. The worst is Lydia and Mrs. Bennet though funny for us is always putting her foot in. But Mr. Collins lacks sense and one wonders if he possesses the qualities that a religious man should, with so much enthusiasm about the high classes I don´t see how´ll manage with the low!
According to Lizzy´s love affairs, I belive that she easily falls in love at first sight (although she didn´t want to show it), but after a talk whom she liked first to, she usually changes her mind. It happened with Mr Darcy, and I´m afraid it will take place again with Mr. Wickham. However, I´m sure that Lizzy will finally fall in love with Mr Darcy (who is really in love with her), because, as Marta said some days ago at class, these two characters performe the novel´s title; Pride is in Mr Darcy, and Perjudice is in Elisabeth.
A much better written comment Rebeca, I´m not so sure that Lizzy falls in love so easily because she didn´t fall in love with Mr.Darcy or Mr.Bingley for that matter, nor with the officers, however Wickham has charm and she is the happy woman she sat by, so she must feel something, she certainly likes him, she is pleased with the attention he pays her and she is not with the attention Mr. Darcy showed rather the contrary she is always attacking him.
They are certainly the main characters which doesn´t necessarily mean that they´ll end up together but....
The more I read the surer I´m that
Elizabeth and Darcy are well aware of each other’s faults, and they will love each other in spite of them.
About Wickham I wonder if He told Elizabeht all the truth when He explained about old Mr. Darcy´s story to her. (Chapter XVI).
I´m engrossed in the book!!!.
But for his prejudice against lower classes, I consider Mr. Darcy to be quite similar to Miss Bennet, both of them proud and convinced their beliefs are the correct ones.
Marta, you are right though Mr. Collins seems to be blind before the consequences of his acts. What I mean is that he believes himself very well situated and lacking of any weakness, thus, being unable to see beyond his “qualities”. The same happens to Mrs. Bennet who is incapable of understand how foolish her behaviour is. It is this characteristic of both characters that make them less hateful.
Mar I´m very glad you find the novel so interesting, I think it is very interesting, entertaining and good to read for improvement. Who can compare it with the boring set book? Not I.
A very clever thought, though one must admit that Darcy with his haughtiness does seem guilty. It is possible that he were jealous of his father´s love to another, after all he was the only son and heir, he didn´t have a brother.
Mr. Darcy does have a tendency to look down on people and let´s face it people who are higher in whatever tend to do so or at least do so sometimes. Mr. Darcy has been brought up in that and he must find it natural to be a bit standoffish. However Wickham´s accusation is a really bad one, in that time honour was much more important than it is today, if you didn´t act honourably you were ruined in society.
It´s funny to see how you and us are arguing about whether our main characters are in love or not. Though in Jane Eyre we already know it.
I think Lizzy started despising Darcy and then changed to love him suddenly. From hate to love there is one step.
In Jane Eyre we have only a man, Mr. Rochester, quite a man, but in P&P there are many to choose! How do you like them?
Darcy, proud, rebellious, clever, observer, a gentleman... Mr. Collins, a fool, clumsy, dense, high-handed... Mr. Wickham, cheerful, elegant, nice... Mr Bingley, prince charming...
And boys, there are also many women to choose! Jane, Lizzy... Who do you prefer?
Reading Chapter XVI, I have noticed that it gives us an example about Jane Austen´s style of written. During the conversation between Mr. Wickham and Elizabeth we realize the kind of character they have in comparison with Mr. Darcy. They talk about Mr. Darcy´s pride, which has often been his best friend. His arrogance has carried him to be related just with clever people of the first class. Mr. Darcy has been an envy person and that´s why he has been so unjust and malicious with Mr. Wickham.
I´m enjoying with the easy manner that Jane Austen has to describe the characters´ personality.
With this chapter I´ve got really involved on the plot of the history.
By the moment I have could avoid the temptation of seeinng the film, that is on my computer since two month ago, because I want to discover little by little what is happening.However, I´m afraid I´ll watch it by the end of the academy course, in order to check if it is near to the book. I don´t Know if Mr Darcy, and Elisabeth will end uptogether, but I wise that, so I suppose it is the reason why I belive it.
According to Lizzy´s feelings (and even Mr Darcy´s), I think most pepople belive that everyone need to be heard, and if you are not, you can lose your interest on your listener. Then, I hope Mr Darcy forgot all his guilty thoughts, and tried to be closer to Lizzy.
I like Jane's kindness, Lizzy's confidence and cleverness, Lydia's vivacity and Charllote's practicality.
Hi everyone, I've just come back from Galicia, and here it's raining more than there, the clime is changing in the world, maybe because of pollution , or perhaps the global charming. Well the weekend was great nad now it's time to work.
I think the general feeling is that we want Lizzy and Mr Darcy are together at the end.
In my opinion Mr Wickham likes Lizzy, He knew that Lizzy had an embarrased situation with Darcy, that is the reason of he told that kind of things about Darcy to her. Now Lizzy seems to be closer of Mr Wickham. However I don't remember Darcy has told bad things about someone, maybe he is a little antisocial in some occasion but he doesn't gossip.
Hi Cris, you are right, the weather is very crazy, I wouldn´t want to recognize that it´s our guilty. However, I have always lived wet and cold winters in Madrid, haven´t you?.
Talking about another subjet; How can Lizzy have allow Mr Collins dancing with her? This behaviour makes me think that she will always overtake us! However, and in spite of doubting about her knowledge, I´m sure she has done it in order to please her mother, and, of course in order to avoiding an argument.
Hi Angela I am Marta Helena from first Advanced. Why are you so distrustful? I know Mr Collins has suddenly appeared, but we have to give him a chance, overall because he seems to be such an idiot. You can´t sincerely mean that he can be dangerous for the family properties, he is so stupid and vulnerable that the Bennets will do whatever they want to him. What´s more, I think he will fall in love with Lizzy that much, that she will just have to move a finger to make him dance... well we will see...
Hi Angela I am Marta Helena from first Advanced. Why are you so distrustful? I know Mr Collins has suddenly appeared, but we have to give him a chance, overall because he seems to be such an idiot. You can´t sincerely mean that he can be dangerous for the family properties, he is so stupid and vulnerable that the Bennets will do whatever they want to him. What´s more, I think he will fall in love with Lizzy that much, that she will just have to move a finger to make him dance... well we will see...
Roberto: I know you are fond of Mr. Collin´s character.
In my opinion for Mr. Collins, speech is not a means to communicate truth but a means to say what He thinks the people around him want to hear or what will make the people around him think well of him. With this attitude He probably plans a goog life byhimself (a living, money, a marriage) but What about feelings and principles?
I see a lot of comments but don´t have time to read them now, I´ll join in as soon as possible
María a very good definition of the male characters, you are right, there are quite a lot of men to choose, but I´m not so sure I agree with you on the point that Lizzy is in love with Mr. Darcy, I think she dislikes him a lot to say the least, specially after Wickham´s disclosure of what he did to him. Darcy doesn´t have a chance if things don´t change.
Mr. Rochester is also attractive because there is something hidden, he has a secret and we sense it is bad, he has a step-daughter or maybe she is not his daughter but he´s certainly had an affair with the mother and all that makes him horribly interesting maybe even more so than Darcy, though Darcy is my favourite since I was 14!
Pilar, style of writing. His arrogance.... to relate himself...
an envious person. I am enjoying myself with...
I´m glad you are getting involved, and I´m glad that you haven´t been caught by Mr. Darcy´s charm, he certainly has not got much maybe but I fell for him at the beginning and I can´t resist his charm.
Rebeca, I have been able to resist.
Can only has present and past: could, that is all.
Please don´t watch the film it will spoil the novel and I´m going to bring the best version at the end of the year. WAIT
Ok, I´ll wait till then. I´ve always upheld that books are better than thier sisters films, and, of course, I prefere discovering the plot page by page. The only disadvantage I have found in the English reading books is that their words are very small, and it makes reading more incommodius; why aren´t they bigger? I belive we should suggest printing houses it.
Hello everybody,
I have been off line for a week because I was in holidays in Finland. I have a lot of work to do: reading the novel and catch you up with the comments.
You talked about the wheather, well, in Finland was so cold!Even if I dressed myself like an onion (plenty of layers), I had to stop to take a hot coffee every two hours if I didn't want to die. Apart from this and the darkness, the country is wonderfull to visit. It has a sort of freezen and snow covered landscapes which are extraordinary.
Hello you all.
Raquel, I´m becoming jealousy of you!I wasn´t able to go out this long weekend, because I sprained my right ankle, but don´t worry, it is better now. I love travelling, and I hope my job can afford me travel in a near future. Then, and so I suppose you don´t speak Finnish, you will have had a wonderful chance to practise English!
I´m afraid I have moved away too much from the real topic; our novel. I just want only to say, that during these later chapters, I´m finding the story more and more amusing, although it hasn´t still reached to delight me at all.
One thing more Raquel; How Have you insert your photo on the blog?
Thank you.
Hello Rebeca,
actually my photo is there because I have a blog and an account in blogger. So when I write from my pc in any blog I have this profile created and my photo is showed. I uploaded it a long time ago, so I do not remember how I did it(in fact I would like to change it).
I am sorry not to be able to explain you better.
Roberto a very precise description of the girls, maybe you have just defined the perfect girl!
Cris the reason of his telling! Remember gerund after prep., and a good point about Mr.Darcy not being a gossip! It´s true we haven´t really seen him gossiping!But I don´t think Wickham wants to conquer Lizzy I just think he wants to find out what they think of him in the neighbourhood.
Rebeca: it´s our fault not guilt. How could Lizzy have allowed..to dance with MR.Collins. In order to avoid not to avoiding.
Marta, I don´t see how the Bennets can help it or how they can make him do what they want. When Mr. Bennet dies Mr. Collins will have everything that is the law and they´ll have to abide by it.
I think she has accepted because it would be rude not to, you must have a good excuse and she didn´t have one.
Mar it is not a means of communicating.I think your analisis of Mr. Collins is good, he wants to do well for himself.
Rebeca they aren´t bigger because they are cheap editions.
Raquel, I was on holiday in Finland.... reading the novel and catching up. ...in Finland it was so cold. Remember that every verb has a subject. You picture the country of Santa Claus as something very attractive, good description we get the idea.
Rebeca, I´m jealous. The novel hasn´t yet managed to delight me.
I´m glad that somebody can´t remember how to do something in the computer. Sorry but I´m glad when I see that you fail where I fail the whole time, it sort of gives me confidence.
I´m sorry Rebeca does not find the story fascinating I do, but that depends on taste maybe I still delight in Cinderella and such old tales, I´m very typical which is probably not the thing!!
I know Mr Collins´ll inherit everything, but I think one of the daughters´ll marry him and. Were one of the daughters to marry him, she would convince him to give some money to her family. Does it make sense? I´m just trying to get on well with the f****** inverted conditional sentences without if. Lets call it symbiosis. They´ll just swap money for se..., I mean love...
Marta, I see that, and it is true if one of the daughters marry him he would look after the family, if not he would be dishomourable.
At that time it was not only sex, it was also children and the running of the house which was done by the woman. It was awkard for a man to be single, they needed somebody to look after their children if they were widowers and to do everything. Let´s hope for Mr.Bennet´s sake that he does marry one of her daughters!
The conditional sentence is fine you´ve got it.
hello
Thank you Raquel for answering me. I´d to have a blog too, so I supposed it would help me to pass my teacher´s examns. I don´t Know how to biuld one, so if you had enough time to explain it to me one day, I would thank you, And I suppose Marta would too, because according one of her comments, She wanted to improve her comoputer skills.
After that, Don´t you think Elizabeth is very
lucky by having so many suitors? Nearly, most of the men that appear in the novel (except her father and her sister´s boyfriend)have attempted to dance with her, because, altough Mr Wickham didn´t go to the ball, if he had been there, he would have ask Lizzy for a dance.
Mario 4º A
Elizabeth is supposed to be in a very good position in order to prevent her family status from being spoiled by an unfortunate choice.
In spite of this fact, I think she is going through an embarrasing situation; she wants Mr Collins´ marrying intentions to fade away but feels attracted to Mr Wickham.
I believe she is on the wrong way: Mr Wickham is as much interested in getting information about his upcoming status in the neighbourhood as in showing his frustration and bitterness at his father´s behaviour in favour of Mr. Darcy. He only pays attention to Elizabeth as a fruitful way to fulfil his intentions.
Elizabeth has not realised yet about Mr Darcy´s suitability. I hope Jane Austen guide her rightly!
Please, could someone tell me if we had any homeworks for the next week?
*we have
Marta, thanks so much for the corrections.
I´m getting use to the blog by receiving the comments on my e-mail account.
About the novel I would like to say that Elizabeth is really clever and she will carry on well Mr. Collins´desires. By the moment I think she is attracted by Mr. Wickham, but everything can change in this novel. So we´ll see at the end.
I can not go to class this afternoon. So I wish you a nice weekend and see you on Monday!!
I´ve just read the upper comment, and it has astonished me; Can we recieve messages to our e-mail from the blog?.
According to the novel, I´d like to dedicate Mrs Bennet some words, because, altough we haven´t named her too much here, I think she is a very important character in the novel. It is very clear that she only wants to ensure her daughters future, but she is only think about its economic variant. I haven´t seen well that she were keen to sacrifice Lizzy´s happiness by marrying Mr collins. What do thing about? I belive, the happines means too much than money, altough in those days.
Rebeca I´m sure the blog is a very good idea for your lessons. I´ve no idea how to do it but I understand it is very easy I can ask the person who did ours, she said it is very simple.
For having so many suitors, would have danced with her.
Yes it is true, she is lucky but also she is the heroine and of course we are told about her life, not about the others´.
Mario you´ve used the subjuntive, well done. A very good comment well written and with a lot of insight. Exactly Lizzy is not chosing well if she chooses Wickham, who has no fortune, how are they going to live? It is Darcy who is jealous not Wickham´s father, careful with the meaning. Mr. Collins is not sensible but he has money. Let´s see what happens.
Pilar, I´m getting used to, I´m very glad to hear it.
You must explain to the others how you do the email thing.
Do you see Lizzy with Collins? Insupportable as Mr. Darcy said dancing with Elisa would be.
Rebeca Mrs. Bennet is only thinking about money, what do you think about it? Happiness means more than money.
Mrs.Bennet is ready to sacrifice anything because she knows they just don´t have money and they are 5, it is a horrible prospect, how were they to live??? Think for a moment how your life, think you didn´t have money nor a means of getting it, and if you married the problem would disappear. What would you do if you suddenly met an elegible bachelor? Die or marry?
Raquel, for next week we are going to:
-Do chapters 18,19,20
-The first close test in unit 4, it is yellow, the one where there appears a bony hand. Sorry I can´t remember the pages.
-To be or not to be speech.
-You have to hand in an essay, either the one in unit 3 or the one in unit 4.Between 225-250 words, you must use an inverted conditional sentence and a sentence with a proper subjuntive.
Ok?
Why do you think that Mr. Wickham didn´t go to the ball? Let´s talk about the ball.
Thank you Marta for being disposed to help me in my way to build a blog. This idea has arisen to me after taking part in this blog. I´ve realised it is a wonderful way to join the pupils to the school, besides improving their Knowlerdge. But on the other hand, I also think it is an extra work to the teachers; but it doesn´t matter whenever it works.
Before talking about the ball, I´d like to focus how amusing I have found chapter 19. Will have Mr. Collins any lack of intelligence? I´m sure so. He doesn´t only try to persuade Lizzy get marry with him, otherwise he seems not to have understood Elisa´s refusals.
I suppose Mr Wickham didn´t go to the ball because he was afraid of the expected meeting with Mr. Darcy. However, it would be prbably too, that Mr. Darcy had interposed in this incident. Mr. was waiting a chance to dance with Elisa, since it would be better to him if Mr Wickham didn´t appear.
Mr Darcy was waiting a chance...sorry, I´m not good at typing.
Rebeca, focus ON,to get marriED.
You are right that both possibilities exist, which one do you think is more likely?
The blog IS a lot of extra work but it is very good and the students who write get an incredible practice that they wouldn´t otherwise, they think, they write, etc. it is fantastic for them.
The ball is wonderful Lizzy was really nasty to Mr.Darcy who finally is showing his feelings.
I have to stop this I have a party and I have to get ready! I´ll post tomorrow
Hello class!!! I've been able to copy the cd's of the books in mp3 so we can hear it nearly everywhere. Tomorrow I'm going to make some copies of it, so if someone wants one, please tell me so I can take them to class next Tuesday!!
Have a good evening!!
Bye
Angela you are great it is fabulous
Well, both possibilities could be the real one, and two both can also be true, but in different rates. However, I would bet on Mr. Darcy´s honesty, since he is better known at the novel, but I suposed Mr. Wickham is venerable man too. But we can forget that all is possible hen ae are talking about love.
I have to express my complete contempt for Elizabeth`s attitude to Mr Darcy in the ball. He has already decided to show his feelings to her at last, and what does he get in return? Cruelty, roughness and an evil-minded behaviour.
Mr. Darcy does not deserve such a mistreatment! Being able to aproach to Elizabeth and beginning to share his feelings and thoughts with her in a trustful way is proved to be a great achievement, if we take his character, education and social rank into account.
I believe Elizabeth is blinded by what she usually considers as a defect in human being`s relationships: Prejudices.
Quoting an excerpt of the conversation between Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth from the novel :
"(...)And never allow yourself to be blinded by prejudice?"
- "I hope not."
- "It is particularly incumbent on those who never change their opinion, to be secure of judging properly at first."
- "May I ask to what these question tend?"
-"Merely to the illustration of your character," said she, endeavouring to shake off her gravity. "I am trying to make it out" (...)
"I hear such different accounts of you as puzzle me exceedingly."
"I can readily believe that reports may vary greatly with respect to me; and I could wish, Miss Bennet, that you were not to sketch my character at the present moment, as there is reason to fear that the performance would reflect no credit on either." (...)"
Elizabeth should look herself in front of a mirror and try to admit her mistakes. She is on the wrong way; she cannot pretend to judge Mr. Darcy focusing on somebody else`s reports. Sketching someone`s character wrongly is a certain way to misjudge, a kind of prejudice. Mr. Darcy deserves a chance and I hope Elizabeth behave in the right way as soon as possible!
Hello everybody,
I want to congratulate you for having written so many good comments. You keep improving day after day. I can see Marta is like Carmen, both of them knowing how to motivate us. :-)
Elizabeth is not as clever as we should think her to be, for she acts many times ruled by her prejudice against Darcy (yes she is like him). Besides, do you consider her sensible when believing Mr. Wickham’s opinion about Mr. Darcy? She is willing to accept such a story from a strange without first corroborating it.
Mr Collins made me laugh when he decided to introduce himself to Mr. Darcy. In spite of his failing, it is funny seeing how content he is with so awkward a situation.
Would you mind telling me how many chapters you will have to read before coming back after Holidays?
Mario a very good comment and you have used the subjuntive properly. You are absolutely right, Elisabeth has completely erred in her judgement precisely for the reasons you give and it is a very good Mr. Darcy that can put up with her darts!!! It is a scene that changes our minds she has made a poor show.
Roberto, thanks for your compliment you are always encouraging us. I´m not as good as Carmen at motivating you beat us by far, but I´m pleased because we are getting on.
Yes, Mr. Collins has the comic scenes always imagine daring to make himself acquainted to Mr. Darcy when the proper thing would be for him to have been introduced!
You are absolutely right about Lizzy she doesn´t try to find out the truth, she just comdemns.
We have to read up to chapter 20 and for the holidays I don´t think we´ll do many more, just 4 or 5, I´ll tell you I want them to check they know the vocabulary etc. but we´ll keep the rhythm of 3-4 every week it has to last till the end of the year!!
Hi!
How was the weekend?
Let's talk about Mr Collins... The more I read the more I'm convinced that he's an idiot! What can I say about his declaration? Have you ever listened to anything such ridiculous? Can you imagine Elizabeth's face in that moment? What would you do, women, if somebody like Mr Collins asks you to marry him? I'll vomit, I have no doubt about that! Instead of talking about love, happiness and a wonderful life together, Mr Collins talks about formalities and his patroness' wishes. Anyway, the best point of the chapter is Mr Bennet's statement when his wife tells him he have to convince Lizzy (Mrs Bennet is so ungry because her daughter doesn't want to marry Mr Collins): "Your mother will never see you again if you do not marry Mr Collins , and I will never see you again if you do". It's reallly fantastic!
Thank you for the information Marta.
What about you, female students. Which woman in the novel do you think would fit better with the role of a woman nowadays?
One of the reasons why I am enjoying the book is the fact that Jane Austen does not focus on one single character exclusively, giving us plenty of information about the whole “party”. It is a very interesting way of writing, for we know details concerning the real sentiments of some characters beforehand and, therefore, we might judge without being too influenced by the thoughts of the main ones. The opposite happens with the novel we are reading in 5th, Jane Eyre. You are forced to follow the story throughout her perception and it prevents your studying the characters objectively.
Dear Itziar,
Despite Mr. Collins’ manners show him a little bit haughty and unnatural, his offer ought not to be as disregarded as Miss Bennet consider it to be. As I said before, it might be someone willing to taking him seriously. On the other hand, it is quite funny when Lizzy finds no way to make him conscious that she is rejecting his proposal, isn’t it?
He is marvellous!
A Curiosity,
The actress playing the role of Mrs Bennet in the BBC series (1995), which I really recommend that you should borrow it from the library after reading the novel, acted in a film I saw this weekend (“The life and death of Peter Sellers”). She only appears a few seconds, however, I was glad to see her, for I really like her performance in P&P even though the accent in “The life…” is not so refined as in the former. Physically, she is nearly the same. Besides, it surprised me not having her there as Mrs. Bennet.
I have enjoyed very much reading chapters XIX-XX.
Mr. Collins is not a husband Elizabeth would respect as an intellectual equal. In fact, Elizabeth thinks Mr. Collins is a “fool” and believes that she could not ever be happy if she was married to Mr. Collins.
Mr. Collins confronted Elizabeth as a female who needed a dependable husband -he thought Elizabeth would definitely accept him- but he was very surprised when she declined his proposal.
From my point of view Elizabeth Bennet is a complex character, a contradiction between youth, femininity, wisdom.
Hi!
Haven´t you realised that Jane Austen has tried to perform how she thought about many vestments? Like the church, the army,...I suppose she disliked the first one, because the character that represents it doesn´t stand out by his wit; Mr Collins.On the opposite, Mr. Wickham seems to be one of the favourite personages of the author, as he is beautiful, pleasant, fearless,...
What do you think about it?
Rebeca,
I´m sorry I couldn´t write you before.
The way I used to receive the comments on my e-mail account was given to me when I made the registration on the blog. It was an option to receive them on the e-mail. Did you not see it?
I agree with Mario. I think that Elizabeth´s behaviour at the ball was very rude. When she has an idea of someone, nobody can change it. Although she has only known one part of Mr Whickhan´s and Mr Darcy´s history, she doesn´t hesitate to be mad-mannered with Mr Darcy.
In the opposite, I think that Mr Darcy has been so patience with her.
On the other hand, I want to talk about Mr Collins. Reading chapters 19, 20 and 21, I have no doubt that he is not very clever, he is arrogant and pedantic. When he talks, he can´t stop speaking and he speaks until all the people is bored!! The way he sais the things is horrible! When he asks Lizzy if she wants to get married with him, I´ve never heard anything so stupid!! He enumerates the reasons for marring Lizzy!
I agree with Mario and Arantza that Lizzy wasn´t enough friendly to Mr.Darcy at the ball, but then, she wasn´t in love with him, as he seemed to be some days ago (before meeting him). Besides, I think she is still trying to verify if Mr Wickham has told her all the truth.
And finally I have a question to the women of the blog; When you know a man is trying you to fall in love with him (altough you love him), don´t you want to make his job a bit more difficult?
We are going to turn this blog into a forum where to speak about relations between men and women! We are doing it everywhere!
I think we want men to do a great effort at their seduction, only if we like them (for increasing our self esteem), but if women go too far, men tend to got fed up... So it is advisable to be prudent. How true is it in P&P?
to get fed up, sorry
Hello: I apologize for using this blog for this information, but I would like to inform you that we (fourth A) are thinking about to enjoy a drink on Wednesday the 17th, after our English class, as it will be our last class (before Christmas time), so all of you (Marta, Carmen, Peers) will be very welcome.
Time: after 5:00 p.m.
-If you agree-
Pub: El patio de Lucas
address: Fernando VI, 11
-five minutes on foot from the School-
Mr Collins is blind because he believes himself as a very well situated man and, therefore, agreeable enough so as to catch any sensible woman’s eye.
A 4thA is speaking..I've read some comments and I'm really glad to see that some of you have already started to write something about yourselves, on the one hand it's interesting to comment the novel for sure,but on the other hand it's a good exercise for us to try to compare this novel with our own experiences. From my point of view the novel has a big contents of relationships among man,women, parents, sons and daughters and, in no novel can you find out a variety of characters like we've found so far. Therefore, let's use this novel and this blog, as well for knowing a little bit more about relationships among human beings..
Mar, I'll be there after class, see you tomorrow!
Itziar to anything so ridiculous? The answer is NO. I´d vomit, you want the hypothetical.I feel the same about Mr. Bennet´s comment. It is wonderful to have a man that supports you!! I´m sure Lizzy felt his worth.
Don´t watch any film yet! Roberto is right but I´ll bring the best Pride and Prejudice when we have finished the book and you will enjoy it more. We have to wait and it´ll be more fun.
Roberto I think probably Lizzy, but Lydia in some aspects would fit very well a modern woman, it´s a joke.
I see what you mean about Jane Eyre, but try and analise what she says seeing it through your own eyes not through hers, for example Rochester is quite dishonest in some aspects though Jane does not seem to notice, she excuses him
Itziar to anything so ridiculous? The answer is NO. I´d vomit, you want the hypothetical.I feel the same about Mr. Bennet´s comment. It is wonderful to have a man that supports you!! I´m sure Lizzy felt his worth.
Don´t watch any film yet! Roberto is right but I´ll bring the best Pride and Prejudice when we have finished the book and you will enjoy it more. We have to wait and it´ll be more fun.
Roberto I think probably Lizzy, but Lydia in some aspects would fit very well a modern woman, it´s a joke.
I see what you mean about Jane Eyre, but try and analise what she says seeing it through your own eyes not through hers, for example Rochester is quite dishonest in some aspects though Jane does not seem to notice, she excuses him
... she loves him, so she´s blind. (I´m referring on Jane Eyre, continuing Marta´s sentence). Roberto, you can see many things of many characters through words Brontë writes, beyond Jane´s eyes. But it is more complicated to notice it. It´s true.
Mr Collins actually lacks self confidence, that´s his ruin in getting things.
Hello!
After reading chapters 19 and 20, I can´t understand how Lizzy could refuse Mr.Collins` proposal of marriage. His reasons for marrying are full of sense, he remains her that he`ll inherit her home and he doesn´t mind her low future incomes. Love is not mentioned but in that period it wasn´t very necessary..
Really, "Mr. Collins was not a sensible man".
Hello!!
I think that Mr Collins has shown his real intelligence in chapters 19 and 20. But i think that it is not very strange that Lizzy refuse him, because even if Mr Collins is going to inherit the house, Lizzy is thinking on Mr Wickham and she is too much intelligent for being married with such a stupid person.
In my opinion, the best character of the book is Mr Bennet. He is ironic, funny and sensible. His answer to Lizzy when Mrs Bennet Knew that Lizzy had refused Mr Collins, was fantastic!
Arantxa, I agree with you, Mr. Bennet is the best. The way he asks Mary to stop singing at the ball is fantastic. At that moment, every member of the family was exposing himself (apart from Eliza), and with his action he stops it with a very good behaviour.
As far as Mr. Collins' proposal is concerned, I am not suprised of Eliza's answer. Through Mr. Darcy, an unhappy rich man, she has realise that money does not give you the happiness (she seems to be the only character who knows it), and she could never be happy with him.
I also agree with you two; Arantxa and Raquel. Mr. Bennet is a great character, and he has shown it many times. Not only have we read his ironic jokes to his wife, but also his deference and sweetness to her. Of course, it has been self evident too how important his daughters´ happiness is; to him, it is above the money.
But, and this comment is mainly addressed to the ladies of the blog, What wouldn´t make our fathers for us? I belive (and I´d like you too)girls are frecuently the main prioriy to our fathers.
Then, don´t you think Lizzy is looking for a man with a similar personality as her father? I mean; one who listen to her, support her whatever it happened,...
Jesus, I agree with you. We have to use the novel to bring the story to the real life.
I know some of you love this book, and you like to speak about Darcy and Elisabeth and now about Mr Collins. But I think it would be more interesting to speak about how women nowadays would tolerate the behaviour of a mother like Mrs Bennet. Or maybe speak about the difference between the life in the city or in the country.
She is also very confident in her looks because she has said no to a very good future, regarding money, but of course we understand her, and her father is supportive which always gives a girl confidence.
You are right Roberto he is proud of what he has gained and unable to meet defeat from an inferior.
Jesús that is exactly my point of view. A very good inverted sentence and a perfect comment though a little vague, relate it to the novel. What is your opinion?
María you are right about Jane E., you see more things than you are aware of. But with regard to Mr.Collins I think he reveres rank and is prepared to give them their due, he lacks self-confidence but not when he believes that Lizzy refuses him just to make him more ardently in love, he thinks too well of himself to accept a refusal.
Carolina are you in earnest?? It is true that at that time love was not maybe the only reason to marry it was not even an important one, but Lizzy is too young and beautiful not to wait for another proposal, and her father sees it as she does so... convince me that you are right, I´m willing to hear what you have to say.
Arancha Lizzy is too intelligent. Yes I´m sure that Lizzy would have preferred Mr. Wickham, but Mr. Wickham has no money and I don´t think they can marry, she having none either. Mr.Bennet is charming as a character but my favourite from the beginning is Mr. Darcy, he is haughty but what the heck, he can jolly well be!!
Raquel, money does not give you happiness, a good point about Lizzy but sometimes one has to live without happiness and being content. I think we´ve lost that, we want to be so happy that we forget about being content and we are always suffering yearning for what we don´t have.
What wouldn´t our fathers do for us, Rebeca. One who listens to her supports her, don´t forget the S. But I think that Lizzy sees that her father is a little too lenient with the younger sisters and in that he is selfish, whatever causes an inconvenience he avoids.
Vicente proposes two interesting topics. I accept the challange, I believe that women put up with mothers that are terrible today as they did yesterday. And the people that live in cities still look down on the people who live in the country thinking that they are less refined, less fashionable, less informed, less cultured, less everything.
Do you agree?
I´ve been to the section Hamlet: to be or not to be, and only Rebeca has posted.
This is a task for the class with whom I did the text:
Who does it better and why, Olivier or Brannagh?
Please post your comments. Go to the tag Shakespeare and scroll down until you find it.
Of course Vicente and Jesus, if we try to check the novel according to real live, we will be able to learn a lot. We will improve our English level, and our way to understand the live. It is another think that literature gives us.
I agree with you things have not changed that much regarding feelings and the human heart. Technology, medicine is what has changed, but not the rest. So we can learn a lot from the novel and apply it to our daily lives.
I agree with you things have not changed that much regarding feelings and the human heart. Technology, medicine is what has changed, but not the rest. So we can learn a lot from the novel and apply it to our daily lives.
Carolina you said: "...I can´t understand how Lizzy could refuse Mr.Collins` proposal of marriage ...". I can understand it perfectly, look at this sentence: "do not considere me now as an elegant female intending to plague you, but as a rational creature SPEAKING THE TRUTH FROM HER HEART".
Goodness me! she was very brave, I liked it.
From my point of view Elizabeth Bennet is the first character who speaks from her heart.
Had I been in a similar situation in my live I would have done the same. With this sentence I´m trying to go to the new challenge in this blog, the once which Marta has accepted after Vicente and Jesus´proposals. Marta, I also believe that women put up with mothers that are terrible today as they did yesterday BUT nowadays we are very independient (thinking about our economic and professional position) and it makes possible not to be married as the "only" solution for women. We are not independient at all as we -women- depend on men (because of our heart); three centurys ago Elizabeth Bennet spoke with her heart in spite of living in a century where the marriage was her unique solution.
Anyway, I want to wish all of you Merry Christmas and the best for 2009; and I beg for a world in peace (not like a topic).
Mar, it makes IT possible for us not to be married.
I agree things haven´t changed that much the emotinal link is difficult to break and we can´t break it. Mothers have a lot of power over their children and they exert it, parents often destroy their children or make them suffer unnecessarily because they want them to fullfil their expectations and they don´t let them be
Thanks for accepting our challenge, but do you think that women today are like Bennet's sisters? I suppose you (women) have learnt about life in the last two centuries. So you are totally different and you know how to control those mothers who are similar to Mrs Bennets nowadays.
Anyway I f we speak about women, I'd like to speak about Elizabeth. At first I thought she was a very interesting character, but for the moment I think she is only a bad-mannered girl who believes she is the most intelligent.
From my point of view the only interesting characters so far are male: Darcy, Mr Collins, and Mr. Wickham.
All the female characters are predictable, so they are boring.
Yes, what Mar and Marta say is true; today, many of them are bringing to the end our parents own wishes. It doesn´t matter they´re were about love and relationships affairs´or work ones. Parents will always try to avoid us to make their same mistakes, and to reach what they think is the best for us. It happens to between Mrs Bennet and her daughters, althoug not in the same way. She got a man who could support her, so she wanted it for her girls too. However, Lizzy who is above her times, doesn´t behave as her mother wanted. It is a big change in those days, but it shos us that there are many things that will be always the same; not only our feelings according love, but young people try to be against the norms.
Sorry but yesterday I made a mistake with the name in the blog, it was me who wrote the following under the name of Guillegui...
"Thanks for accepting our challenge, but do you think that women today are like Bennet's sisters? I suppose you (women) have learnt about life in the last two centuries. So you are totally different and you know how to control those mothers who are similar to Mrs Bennets nowadays.
Anyway I f we speak about women, I'd like to speak about Elizabeth. At first I thought she was a very interesting character, but for the moment I think she is only a bad-mannered girl who believes she is the most intelligent.
From my point of view the only interesting characters so far are male: Darcy, Mr Collins, and Mr. Wickham.
All the female characters are predictable, so they are boring."
Vicente, I can´t belive you question if today women are as we used to be two centuries ago. Of course,it is very easy to realise we are not. After many efforts, we have got lot of rights we couldn´t enjoyed some years ago, as to decide by ourselves if we want to get married or not, against it happens in the novel;men had to give his girldfriends´ fathers her hand.
On the other hand, I entirely disagree with youabout how characters are more interesting in the novel. It is clear that Mr Darcy is one of them, but there are another ones who belong to the female side, as Jane or even lady Catherine de B. However, I belive the relationships that are between all the characters of the novel,is what give it amusing.
Tomorrow I won´t be able to write on the blog, so happy Christmas to everyone! Will The Bennets celebrate it in a future chapter?
Guillegui, are like the Bennet sisters?
My answer is yes, and I add do you know women? How many sisters or cousins or women friends have you got? They are not that different from the ones in those times, we are still too interested in marriage and men, we are not independent mentally we depend on you emotionally and that makes us very similar to the women in the 19th century.
Rebeca, it doesn´t matter whether...RELATIONSHIP not with an S as it is an adj. Careful with that mistake.
Parents will always prevent us from making...
...young people trying to be. The participle is what links ok?
I agree with what you say, we are still very similar.
Vicente, I thought it might be you!!! Do you think women are predictable?? Did you expect Lizzy to say no to Mr.Collins? I suppose many of us did, but are not men predictable? I think more than women really, if a man sees a woman who is pretty and has a good body with a nice cleavige he is sure to look and be interested, if they know that a woman is fast, he is sure to be interested. You find the men more interesting because they were more so. Women were confined to the house, men went abroad, studied, did sports,went to war, had affairs, etc. of course they are more interesting!! Women couldn´t do anything but be in the house or with their family. They moved very little, what could they talk about? They didn´t study they didn´t read, they just had to look pretty.
Don´t you think that men prefer that kind of women? Many men are afraid of women who have an opinion. The quieter the woman is the better for her if she wants to catch a husband. How about that??
Rebeca, it is obvious after my last comment that I disagree with you, we are not that different, we are more learned but that is all.
...we couldn´t enjoy. Inf without to after modal verb. Differently to what happens in the novel...
but there are other ones... another is followed by a singular.
Is what makeS it amusing. Careful with that S, I know that when we are writing it is not that difficult to forget it but you mustn´t it is very important!
MERRY XMAS EVERYBODY!! Has anybody been lucky with the lotery??? You´ll see me in January I think that explains that I haven´t been!!!
It is becoming rather difficult to catch up with this blog, there being so many comments to read. Well done!
Marta, you are right. Mr. Rochester is vulgar sometimes. As for people living in the country, some of my intimate friends do, and I think them equal, with a different perception of life, though. They are not as materialistic as we are here in the city and know how to enjoy better than we do; perhaps because their life is focused on relationships, it being something very difficult to achieve in cities where you scarcely know your neighbours.
Arantza, Lizzy is a clever woman indeed, however, would you mind explaining to me why she is so fond of Wickham? Handsome as he is, I am unable to see any other quality in this character but his “amiable” speaking. Women seem to be attracted by these two things in men, don’t they?
Raquel de Luis, Mr. Bennet gives plenty of funny comments even though he lacks of interest enough so as to deal with the difficulties his family is involved in. That is the reason why I do not consider him to be the best character in the novel.
Rebeca, Congratulations! You are working hard, posting many comments everywhere. Good job!
Despite their sympathy, I am not sure whether Lizzy be really looking for a man similar to his father, nevertheless, Mr. Bennet is content because it is with Lizzy that he may have relief, as if Lizzy were his “son”. On the contrary, Miss Bennet finds support in him, since her mother’s is not willing to doing it so.
Mar, Lizzy speaks openly but disregarding her family’s condition and acts moved by selfishness.
Parents do their best to bring up us properly and sometimes there is no avoiding making mistakes.
Roberto, you are right, the people in the country are more authetic, so to say they value things that are worth valueing. It is the same in P&P the girls are not so society conscious as the Bingleys or Darcy and his family, but they lack the veneer that the people from the capital have, both now and in the time of the novel.
Do you think that Lizzy is selfish? I think she just can´t put up with Mr. Collins and is still young to feel she can get another one. Mr. Collins is quite a pain to live with, don´t you think? He is so proper and tiresome with rank and so repetitive that one would feel like killing oneself after an afternoon with him. However he is not harmful, but a pain in the neck, and if you are still young and beautiful why not wait?
I SEE NO COMMENTS ABOUT HAMLET IN THE THEATRE BLOG OR IN THE SHAKESPEARE SECTION
Go to the to be or not to be speech and let me know who does it better. This is your task for this week after the Xmas celebration you need to relax with some English OK?
Vicente, I can understand -more or less- your explanation about “Guillegui”, but what about the photo? I think that there is not explanation for that .... Anyway,
Roberto, I don´t think that Elizabeth is a selfish person. From my point of view Elizabeth does not adhere rigidly to the standards set by society, where the family and the community tend to coerce and even predetermine her volition and aspirations. She is quite independent.
Marta I think that women are less predictable than men because our mind is much more complicated than their, also you spoke about beauty "like a first impression", it brings me a question, I have read that Pride and Prejudice was originally titled "First Impression" because the appearances of the characters created the plot of the novel; is this information right?
p.s. Were I win the lottery I wouldn´t attend the blog today ... (oh oh, bad luck)
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OF YOU!!
I have read something very interesting in chapter 25 concerning women feelings towards men and I would be glad whether you could give your opinion about the issue:
“…We must not be so ready to fancy ourselves intentionally injured. We must no expect a lively young man to be always so guarded and circumspect. It is very often nothing but our own vanity that deceives us. Women fancy admiration means more than it does”
“And men take care that they should”
Do you think these statements true? I think the second one it is not, at least in my case.
Mar, our mind is quicker than theirs, we want the pronoun. It brings a question to my mind. Had I won the lottery I wouldn´t....
It is true that that was the first title, but I prefer the second probably because I´m used to it. It is a good title, it describes the main characters very well.
We are only going to read 4 chapters during Xmas, as we want the novel to last until the end of the year, but I think the comment is wonderful, Roberto, you are very good at picking the important comments, I think they are both true. Of course men want us to believe they admire us or even love us, they know that in that way we will do what they want, we are more vulnerable! If we believe a man does not love or care for us we are not going to do what he wishes...
I agree with Mar that Elisabeth is a little more modern than the other women but not that much...
Marta, I don’t like pretending, however, do you mean that if a woman does not see “signals” of love in the man she loves, she will do nothing to show her sentiments?
Some days ago I saw “Sense and Sensibility” again and I got surprised, since I ended up without understanding women’s behaviour when love issue is concerned. The two main female characters suffering disappointments on account the love they feel, I could not comprehend why one of them would rather love a man only because he is handsome and funny than choose the one who really cares for her. On the other hand, the role played by Emma Thomson is unable to show any feeling of encouragement towards the man she loves (Hugh Grant) even though he is obviously rather shy, and therefore, she is doomed to bear a dreary condition till the man makes up his mind to conquer her.
Thus, why women do not take the first step? Is it a matter or pride?
I think I should have omitted "however" in the first sentence to make it have sense, according to what I really wanted to express, so to say, I do not like pretending what I am not
Marta, where is "to be or not no to be" speech? I can´t find it. I have just found "Romeo and Juliet" spech and "Lord Polonius" speech
Thanks and happy cristhmas for everybody
Dear Arantza,
You have to go down on the blog, for it is a thread added last year. Another way is going at the top of the blog. On the right you have the different TAGS we have. Click on Shakespeare's
Arantza, the speech is on the righthand side under TAGS you click Shakespeare and then you scroll down until you find the heading to be or not to be with the two videos
Roberto, I think you are beginning to understand women, just because you say that you can´t understand why they behaved like that.
Women hide their feelings because if they don´t men lose interest in them, you don´t like something easy, you like the conquering it is like going hunting.
In Jane Austen´s time it was forward to show too much interest for a man women had to wait for the man to make the first, second even third move. Now this has changed a little, but I still think that men don´t like women who are after them, it is only clever women who can conquer them even showing that they like them, my opinion is that it is safeset not to show your interest.
Some men prefer to know it when a girl is after them but I think few. What do you think? Do you think that it is better to tell a man "I like you"? Or do you think it is better to act as if you didn´t care? Enlighten us, so that we can conquer you! How should we act when we like a man?
I do not know why both men and women, have to make ourselves so unhappy when showing our sentiments is concerned. I would like that the woman who has interested me should be sincere and not conceal her feelings, is there something wrong in that? However I cannot stand women acting trying to make you like her, so to say, pretending. You must be yourself. At any rate, I don’t mean you have to express what you feel at the first sight but if you are getting to know the person and fall in love with him why are not you “allowed” to show it even if you are a woman?
Marta, you are completely right. The more I try to understand women, more lost I got. So, there is just one thing left to try: Being myself, hoping the woman I like BE interested in me. :-)
NOTE: I have used subjunctive equivalent on purpose in my last comment.
I also think sometimes you know not that a person thinks of you till she/he makes “signals” and then, it might let you open your eyes and notice the treasure you may have before you.
Mistake: the more I try..., THE more...
I understand you, Roberto, I think that we are so compicated. Marta is right when she says that when a woman likes a man, she doesn´t say "I like you", we prefer to let him "working" a bit. But this is sometimes a problem because the man could get fed up and he would decide to forget the woman. So I think that this technique of conquer a man is not usually very succesful.
I finally found the speech and I saw the two videos. I wrote my opinion in that part of the blog
Hi!
I've been reading your posts about relationship. I agree with those who say that men usually make the first move. But I don't think that we, women, are more vulnerable, Marta. In my opinion, women are emotionally stronger than men. We cry more than they, it's true, but I think that we overcome the breaking-off better and faster than they do. When a woman breaks off a man needs more time to get over. Women are more practical: we know that there are a lot of men around the world and we are sure that somebody will love us before or after. That's my experience...
Roberto it is wonderful that you think so but believe me it is not often the case with men or at least women do not think it is. Go and tell a man I love you, and you are done for.
You think like the English, they are more straight forward, I think they hate the flirting attitude, they are not used to it as English women rarely flirt. They are more like you say they speak more openly about what they feel. I suppose what you say you are going to do is the best solution. You just act as you are and if they don´t like you that way well, it´s best so, at least there won´t be the disappointment of finding that you are different to what you showed yourself as.
Arantza, we prefer to let him WORK a bit, the tecnique of CONQUERING.
I agree with you conquering a man is not an easy business for some people though for others it is not at all difficult, they do it without thinking. I think it is a question of studying too, if you have a lot of practice you can do it more easily than if you don´t. One should know many men and how they think, I think it is also important to please them to do what they want, unless he is the type who likes to be contradicted and then you have to say the contrary. The difficulty is that you have to know him, to know what you should do. It is difficult because they are all different! Another important point is that you have to want to do it, some women are not so interested in doing it.
I don´t want to finish 2008 without my last comment in this blog.
Thinking about P&P emotions and feelings are the main focus of the novel and the role that characters play on relationships and daily decisions. Going to the new challenge in this blog, I think that we -men and women- must show our emotions and feelings to each other; I can imagine that most of you are thinking that this is a risk but falling in love is a risk, isn´t it?
p.s. Let me wish you -all of you- the most peaceful New Year.
Dear class mates,
HAPPY NEW YEAR!! I wish you achieve every single dream you have, they are waiting for you and you’re the ones who can make them come true.
The novel having plenty of marvellous speeches, situations and characters, I am really enjoying it and fell anxious to comment about new scenes occurring to Miss Bennet. I keep having a fun because of Mr. Collins and his flattering towards Lady Catherine.
And Mr. Darcy has also a point when analyzing Miss Bennet's attitude.
Happy New Year to all of you! I hope it is full of good things or at least one that you can remember forever. For those girls who are single let it bring a Mr. Darcy! How about that????
Going back to P&P it is certainly a good thing to have to discuss this novel which is good and entertaining. Mar I´m afraid what you suggest is good but dangerous, showing feelings in love affairs always makes one vulnerable and do men want but a vulnerable woman to do what they wish? It is a nice utopia I wouldn´t do it.
Roberto I agree that Mr. Collins is funny he is probably the most so in the novel with Mrs. Bennet they are a delightful couple, and probably the funniest in all Austen´s novels.
What do you thing “being an accomplish woman” meant those days? Only having skills to play instruments, knit, paint and to give conversation? What a waste of time! It is a good thing there were women like Miss Bennet to shake men’s world.
¡Happy new year!
Roberto, I think that "being an accomplish woman" those days meant what you say. I agree with you. It's different nowadays, thank goodness! A woman who wastes her life knitting and smiling like a stupid is nothing. Who wants to marry somebody like Charlotte Lucas? Men who like this type of women are as absurd as they. We, women, look for an intelligent man who share our life with, so do most men. Not every men bus most of them.
In a few days we will be returning to class... See you then!
I consider Mrs Lucas to be a woman of her age, quite conscious of her situation as a woman, therefore, acting accordingly to circumstances. However, let’s speak a little about Jane. Do you think so kind a character is useful for a woman, living under such a condition? I mean, she being shy, with no evil at all and the eldest daughter among Bennet’s, not many chances of receiving an “offering” will be showed before her unless she should go for it. Remember, “if Mahoma doesn't go to the mountain, then the mountain will go to Mahoma”, that is precisely what Mrs Bennet keeps doing.
So, Who's the more foolish...the fool or the fool who follows him?
Roberto what Mr.Darcy says is not a bad definition or what you say for that matter, women did not even have to run the house, they had somebody to do that.
Itziar, like a stupid thing, every man. Some women today don´t do anything they just look after themselves, but I agree with you it must be horrible to depend on a man for everything including maintenance!
Charlotte is quite a sensible woman what is wrong with her? She sees her chance and takes it, she just wants to have somebody to support her and she finds one man for herself, not everybody would do it but she gets a husband and she marries which was something important at the time for a woman. If you didn´t marry you were in a difficult position unless you were rich.
Roberto I think that Jane being a beauty has a chance of marrying and a good chance of marrying well, it is not Charlotte´s case as she is plain. Jane is younger too she has good chances still, and Elizabeth too she being pretty too.
Happy new year! I hope "The Magic Kings" had brought you all the presents you asked for them. Following Marta´s wishes (written some comments before)I expect a Mr Darcy boyfriend, but he hasn´t appeared in my sitting room this morning!However, it doesn´t matter, since I can continue knowing about him (abput this kind of male behaviour) while reading the novel.
According to the book, and to your last comments, I must say I agree with most of your ideas, although I´d give them a different tinge. However,I have also found wonderfull we all think in a similar way, since it means our mentality has changed, and we all accept things are better for women today, as society has progressed in that direction.
Then, I also think women, as Lizzy shows in the novel, should continue looking for new opportunities in order to improve our happiness, however, it should´t be only done in love fairs, but in job and household ones too. Of course, and as my female partners have said, women also want to share our live with an intelligent and lovely man.
On the other hand, I have also read that today, many people couldn´t understood how a mowan as C. Lucas can be as accomodating with her husband. I believe we have to make an effort in order to understand how the society was so many years ago, and that this way of live was the only chance for many women.
See you on Thursday!
Lizzy is disappointed with Mrs Lucas even though the latter has given her quite judicious reasons supporting her decision. The question is: Which attitude is the correct one under such a condition? Lizzy’s or Charlotte’s? I consider both of them to be right, however, do we have to be practical or search of our dreams?
Roberto, I belive that in love affairs, as many things in live,it´s no good to be on the extrems,so it´s better to get the half point (sorry for my many mistakes, but I don´t know how to write properly that what I want to mean).In those days, I supposed it was better to be practical, as women hadn´t many ways to survive but getting a rich husband.
However, if anybody (as Lizzy tries to do in the novel)had given more importance to their dreams and happiness than to their security, today we would only continue surviving, instead of enjoying our live. I think that History needs brave people who were keen to change those things that prevent society improve itself.
Then,I suppose that is one of the reasons that Lizzy is one of the more important characters; she shows the chance of progress in social terms, However, we can´t forget another chaoters, as her mother or even Mrs Luccas, who perform the old fashioned customs.
I agree with you Rebeca.
Up to now, we notice Miss Bennet has interested Mr. Darcy, Elizabeth considering him to be an insufferable man. Nevertheless, What are, in your opinion, Mr. Darcy’s beliefs concerning Lizzy’s perception of him?
I´m not very sure, because men are more complicated than you had made us (women)think you to be, but I supposed Mr. Darcy belives Lizzy values him. She used to argue with him, but she only discusses with those ones who appreciate, as her father or Mrs Luccas. It is Known by Mr darcy, altough he doesn´´t want to show it. However, I also believe he is sometimes a bit confused according to Lizzy´s behaviour, and it makes him to be insecure.
I do not think Mr. Darcy is insecure but a little bit puzzled by finding so witty a woman who is able to answer him with confidence and avoiding undeserving praise.
I asked you that question on purpose. You will find out soon.
AS YOU HAS SAID,Roberto,I haven´t read the part of the book that is supposed to show us that Mr.Darcy were sure that lizzy is in love with him. Nevertheless, I think he is waiting for Lizzy falling in love with him.
And on the other side, I´d like to focus how good friend and sister is Lizzy.She is not only always concerned about her sister´s love affairs, but she tries to help her too. She has also understood C. Luccas´ behaviour, according to her attachment with Mr. Collins, and she would like her friend would have been happier in love, isntead of having to accept this only chance of surviving.
Now, I continue reading, as Roberto´s words have increase my curiosity about Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth.
Yes, you are right Rebeca. Elizabeth acts and feels as a good friend or sister should do. Jane is lucky by having such a sister; for otherwise, her "passive" attitude because of her shyness, might prevent Mr. Bingley's coming back to her side.
I was wondering whether Mr. Darcy would have been the same had he grown up lacking of such a social status as he has. Pride and confidence being many times linked to wealthy, he may do as he pleases; for “the world is his”. It is too sad to say this statement; however, real life is ruled by money and social position. On the other hand, there is always someone the money just cannot buy.
PLEASE, GO TO THE FILM CLUB!
Thank you.
Rebeca,Couldn´t understand, inf without to after modal aux.
I understand Charlotte´s attitude perfectly, Roberto and Rebeca, as she is older than Elizabeth and plainer she takes the last oportunity, I think she has done well, she plotted a little but she has found a comfortable home and Mr. Collins is not a bad person.
Rebeca, that is one of the reasons WHY. She saw the chance of PROGRESSING, gerund after prep. But I see improvement you write much better.
I think Lizzy did well but because she had more time and looks than Charlotte, if she were 28 instead of 21 what would she have done? We change with time. I don´t know maybe she would have said no too.
I don´t know what Mr. Darcy thinks of Lizzy´s feelings but it doesn´t seem she is in love with him, so if he thinks he has a chance with her it must be that he is very sure of his money and condition in life.
Rebeca, he is waiting for Lizzy to fall in love with him.
Rebeca on how good a friend Lizzy is. As it is not a question there is no inversion.
I´m sure Roberto that Mr.Darcy would have been different had he been born in other circumstances. I agree that money and position help, they don´t provide happiness, as the rich are not necessarily the happiest though we might think so. But I do think that the very rich are different from us poor mortals and we can´t judge them as we judge the rest, they are born with everything, they are brought up thinking that they can get anything and that everybody has to please them because their money gives them power, the power to give people a living, call it job, to lend money to solve problems, etc. So I´m sure that Mr. Darcy would have been a different person.
Exactly!
Thanks Marta for your corrections, altough I´m afraid I will continue making them...at least for a long time, till I were able to use correctly all that is to learn by me. However,I´m trying to use the English language whenever I can, trying to catch every chance to speak it, since I suppose it is the only way to improve it, and not to forget it after finishing our studies at the official language school. Then, I dare ask you for another ways to maintain our English skills at holidays, although it is still very soon to think of summer time!
According to our book, I think I haven´t understood you very well, related to Mr. Darcy´s personality. Do you mean if he weren´t rich; he would be more amiable, or the opposite, a bad person?. I´m sure he has a lot of self confidence thanks to his money, but he is also a good man, and I belive he would be nearly the same person though he hasn´t a coin. Neverthless, I agree with you; he would probably be more insecure if he were a poor man, but I´d like to believe that he would have fallen in love with Lizzy in both cases.
That is the point Rebeca. I think Mr. Darcy might be less "attractive" if you consider the advantages his social position bestowes on his behaviour.
By the way, Would you or any of your classmates be willing to have a meeting so that we can improve our speaking?
And, Rebeca you are on the right path to succeed. Keep going, you will get it! :-)
Rebeca Roberto is right you should meet up and talk, you could do it in a bar or wherever. You would improve a lot, one has to do something every day. 10 minutes listening some reading some writing and some exercises every other day. Learning a word a day by heart is a very good idea.
As for Mr.Darcy I´m sure he would be different, not bad, I agree he is not a bad person, but he would certainly be less proud and he would certainly be less confident. Money gives you confidence and a sense of security you know that people are always going to find excuses for your behaviour or your bad manners, I don´t know I´m sure he would be different.
Hello.
Roberto, I think meeting to talk in English is a good idea. Then I hope this suggestion encourages our school mates (me too) to find time for it. I think we should propose the day and the time that our work and daily timetable would let us to meet, don´t you think so? And even we could post an advertisement at the school, or on the blog.
Returning to Pride and Prejudice;don´t you think it is very cruel to separate a pair of lovers, as Jane and Mr Bingle? How can a sister who is supposed to love her brother, separate him from his girldfriend? Money was very important in those days, but The Bingleys had a lot of it, so they could allow themselves to get married with anybody they love.
And on the other side, Why hasn´t Mr. Bingley gone to see Jane, as he is fall in love with her?
Dear Rebeca, you will find answers for all those questions some chapters ahead. I am afraid that so agreeable a man as Mr. Bingley is, he lacks of resolution and seems to be easily influenced by his relatives. Besides, we know Jane is shy and despite her wishes to meet him again, she is too passive even though it is the man that must take the next step (those days).
What if we meet next Tuesday?
Rebeca on the other hand.
A very good idea to meet up and talk in English.
Is it strange that sisters or mothers want their sons or brothers to marry well? It is wrong I agree but many people do it, sometimes when you are older you see things more clearly and you say he is not going to be happy and often they are right. When you marry you are blind as love is so but when you see the situation from a distance you can judge better.
I understand such an attitude and I guess I would do the same were I to be a woman for you are more practical than us (as Carmen told us yesterday). I do not think it wrong provided they respect men’s beliefs when marriage is concerned.
Do you think it might be also because of a “natural sense of protection” women usually embrace, shown mainly when they have children? Or is it a nonsense this statement?
I have had a very enjoyable time reading chapter I-Volume Two (or chapter 24).
I find very interesting this paragragh: "There are few people whom I really love, and still fewer of whom I think well. The more I see of the world, the more am I dissatisfied with it; and every day confirms my belief of the inconsistency of all human characters ...”
On the one hand, it reminds me how human Jane's characters are and why we enjoy them so much. I also think that there is someone whom Elizabeth loves but of whom she doesn't think well, I guess She is thinking about Mr. Darcy, isn´t She?
On the other hand, it brings to my mind Hamlet´s text –to be or not to be-; I can find some connections between Hamlet and Elizabeth´s feelings, do you agree? or are these blogs driving me crazy????
Hi!
"There are few people whom I really love, and still fewer of whom I think well". I want to emphasize this sentence, as Mar has done. It sounds a little bit pessimistic and negative, maybe, but I think that it describes life perfectly. We, people, have to live together, in the course of life we meet a lot of different people and we choose our friends. We don´t get on well with everybody, that's impossible. We can love and we can hurt or be hurted too. My father always said: "When you're a child you want and you need a lot of friends around you. The more friends you have the more happy you are. But things change completely when you grow up. You realized that you can, and that you want to live, with one, two or three closed friends only. Because when you're an adult you know that there are one or two "best friends" only, not a lot of them. And they will be near to you always". I agree with that. Completely
Dear Mar, that is a very good quote, quite true indeed. It might be a link with Hamlet’s “to be or not to be”, for he only sees “heart aches and thousand natural socks” which life keeps granting us before parting to the undiscovered country form whose bourn no traveller returns.
By reading your comment, I guess you are currently doing chapter 24, aren’t you?. It is a good think to know that, as I am reading some chapters ahead and I feel anxious because I cannot post some other interesting quotes appearing in the novel and therefore I usually forget posting them when the proper time arrives. Nevertheless, knowing the schedule, I can manage to underline the quotes so that we can enjoy discussing them.
Yesterday, I start watching Sense & Sensibility again, not only to improve my listening skills but also because it is a wonderful film (I will probably read the novel itself after finishing P&P). Anyway, let us go to the point, I realised how hard was for a family similar to Bennet’s when the husband dies and the propriety is immediately inherited by the closest male relative, in this case the step brother, and women are forced to leave their home, enduring a new mater’s living there. So, after all, Mrs Bennet is not such a fool as we think her to be.
Sorry, I meant "master's".
Mario 4 A
Hi everybody!
I have just written a comment and it has disappeared!
Well, once again ...
Thanks to Mar and Itziar for their nice quotes and comments.
It is believed that true friendship is a priceless treasure which needs to be taken care of. At the present time it is very difficult to find real true friends and even preventing them from leaving your side sometimes proves to be an extraordinary feat. Nowadays there are many similar attitudes to Elizabeth's behaviour in Pride & Prejudice. She is incapable of accepting and understanding the real purposes of Charlotte's decission when she finally make up her mind about marrying Mr. Collins. The reason why is that Elizabeth always believes firmly in the acuity and cleverness of her own opinions about people; she prejudges everybody at first sight and that is her weakness: She is unable to appreciate that she can be wrong sometimes. In my view, this is the worst prejudice of all.
I expect she realise about this fact in next chapters and change her behaviour as soon as possible!
What a mistake!
...startED watching..
Sorry again
Mario 4 A
I am sorry; it is nothing but a typing mistake: Decision (not "decission").
Don´t worry Roberto, We should have read till chapter 28 by tomorrow, so you can tell us somethig that were going to happen tll then.
On the other hand, I entirely agree with Mar and Itziar; live is a constant struggle. We have to fight to get whatever we loved, so we need not only to be strong but intelligent to win that important fight, as Lizzy try to do. She is fighting against her society. However, she is also having a war with her feelings, since she doesn´t want to show she is in love with Mr Darcy, and she is even trying to persuade herself she doesn´t love Mr. Darcy. Don´t you think she is doing that because she is afraid of being in love? I mean, In my opinion she is attempting to defeat her subconcious.
According to Mario´s comment, I dare say that I don´t agree with it. I don´t think Lizzy were a bad friend, so I´m sure she has understood Mrs. Luccas. Lizzy is a very intelligent woman, so she knows that the only chance her friend had of getting a husband (or better, a way of living)was in Mr Collins´s offer. Neverthless, she had prefered her fried had found the real love, because it was more important than money in Elizabeth´s eyes. However, it could have seemed the contrary, since she seemed very surprise when she knew the new from her friend´s lips.
On the other hand, you are right when you say it is very difficult to find and to care of your friends.Nowadays we have less free time (as our goverments make us think the opposite)than in the 18th century, so we can dedicate it to our ffriends. Then, we must learn from Lizzy, who has gone to see her sister and friend during her aunt and uncle´s travel.
Hello!
I agree with Rebeca, Lizzy only wanted the best for Charlotte and, at the beginning,she didn`t understand her decision of marrying with Mr.Collins, but, I think, when Lizzy visits Charlotte,she realizes that her friend`s marriage is a prudent or rational election; what do you think of this: "When Mr. Collins could be forgotten, there was really a great air of comfort throughout and by Charlotte`s evident enjoyment of it, Elizabeth supposed he must be often forgotten".
On the other hand, I´m not sure that Lizzy is in love with Mr.Darcy. She hasn`t a good opinion of him, because she thinks that he has influended Mr. Bingley to part Jane, in fact, when she meets Miss de Bourg she says: "Yes, she will do for him very well. She will make him a very proper wife"...She is thinking in Mr. Darcy, isn`t it?
You are right Mario; so fond is Elizabeth of her beliefs that she fails in analyzing herself a little.
Rebeca you are probably quite right when saying Elizabeth behaves in the way that she does so as to avoid feeling vulnerable. However, do you really consider Lizzy in love with Mr. Darcy? I think not. She cannot bear such an insufferable a man and his interference in her sister’s engagement to Mr. Bingley.
Anyway, you know that there is only one step before passing from hatred to love.
Yes, you have reached where I was trying to show you all; Lizzy believes that She hates Mr. Darcy, but the real feeling is that she is really in love with him. I think you wouldn´t hate anybody if you hadn´t loved him or her before, These are very similar feelings, both of them are very intense. What will happen in the meeting with Mrs. de Bourgh?
What a haughty woman! Lady Catherine the Bourgh only content by having people around her, like Me. Collins, who flatter her comments continually and avoid giving opinions of their own, Lizzy is not willing to let proud people control her will. Thus, let us see how the Lady Catherine reacts before such independent a woman.
Sorry, I meant "Mr"
Of course, Lady Catherine needs people beside her in order to feel herself important and to be "happy". And she even wants them to be pooer and less fashionable than her, as we can read at these two sentences which belonged to Mr. Collins: "Lady Catherine will not think the worse of you for being simply dressed. she likes to have the distinction of rank preserved". Will it mean that she is a bit proud, or only a bit unsecure woman?
Hi peers!!!and Marta, I'm Angela. I haven't send you the key, because I haven't received any e-mail with it!!In the moment I have it I' ll send to you all, because Jesus has send me all your e-mails. Marta, when you seethis, please ask the person to send it again. I give my e-mail, maybe they have send it wrongly: angelaracionero@hotmail.com
Have a nice weekend.
My God how fantastic there are a lot of comments. Mar, Itziar Mario and Roberto´s I´ve read so far and they are so good and well-written I almost believe that you are going to end up being not only critics but good ones and in English too!! I think the sentence is a perfect one to comment, maybe Lizzy is a little too young to have such insight into the world but it is true that she is very right as your father has pointed out to you and experience is important. I think that maybe comparing it to Hamlet´s soliloquy is a little far-fetched.
Roberto you are so good that I think you will be able to teach as you do so much and that is the only way to improve.
Sorry I can´t read on I´m at home in Santander and have duties!! I´ll try and read the rest of the comments later
Marta, thank you very much for such flattering a comment. I sincerely think we are just the reflection of what we have been taught. Besides, it is your encouragement and Carmen’s, always given when one is in low spirits, that make us keep going.
A very good quote Rebeca, that is one of which I had underlined as quite interesting to discuss. Trying to be sincere (and humble) come what may, Mr. Collins grants Miss Bennet another bitter “compliment” of his. However, I consider it wise, since people usually make their best so as to pretend that they are better situated into society than they really are.
Chapter 29 is extremely funny indeed. My dear Mr. Collins and his endeavouring quest for pleasing her patroness, show him lamentably absurd and amusing at the same time. Were I to be before such spread of praise, deserved or not, I could not stop laughing. The ending of the chapter is the highlight moment of Elizabeth’s cousin in my opinion.
Rebeca do you really think that Lizzy is in love with Mr.Darcy? I think she is more in love with Mr. Wickham though she says the contrary to her aunt, maybe not in love but she certainly likes him more than Mr.Darcy. Prove with the text that she is in love, I´m dying to know where you get this idea from. By the way it is Lizzy was, the subjunctive is not necessary. She would have preferred her friend had found a real love.
Carolina shows with that sentence that Mr.Darcy is not a favourite with Eliza. It is very appropriate to our conversation, she thinks his cousin would be a good wife as she is as proud as he is. I also agree that Lizzy realised that Charlotte was tolerably happy with Mr. Collis as she forgot him often.
Roberto also provides a good point when he says that Lizzy is sure that Mr.Darcy was the means of ruining her sister´s happiness and so disliked him more for that.
The first meeting of Lizzy and Lady Catherine will not disappoint you!
Angela don´t worry I´ll tell them on Monday if they have not read you post, or give whoever it was a call and tell her to do it tomorrow when I´m back in Madrid.
WHO HAD TO SEND THE KEY TO ANGELA???? PLEASE DO IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, THEY ARE EXPECTING IT.
THANK YOU MARTA
Hello Angela.
Paloma is the classmate who had to send the key to you, here is her e mail address
palomabazo@yahoo.es
(Had I had the key on my computer I would have sent it to you), so please write and e mail to Paloma.
Mar thank you very much, you are very efficient.
Now that we know a new character (Mrs. Gardiner) I wonder how crucial will Mrs. Gardiner be in Jane and Elizabeth ´s relationships. She has suggested to the Bennets that Jane return to London with her for a rest; will she do something in favor of renewing her aquaintance with Mr. Bingley???
I have been thinking about Mrs Gardiner thoughts, when She told Elizabeth (after knowing the current situation between Jane and Mr. Bingley): “... poor Jane! ... it had better have happended to you Lizzy; you would have laughed yourself out of it sooner”.
I desagree with this though, Elizabeth is much more thoughtful than her aunt´s believes.
About the first meeting between Elizabeth and Lady Catherine I think that Elizabeth found Lady Catherine ill-mannered woman, I also think that Lady Catherine was extremely fond of giving others unasked advice. As the book says “Elizabeth felt all the impertinence of her questions, but answered them very composedly”. Thinking about this meeting I really miss Elizabeth´s temper, what a pity!
p.s. Marta, you are very welcome.
Now, and after reading till the chapter 34, I finally realise that Lizzy doesn´t love Mr. Darcy. The fact that has me understand it has been her conversation with Mr Darcy´s cousin at the green ground. Elizabeth is very concerned about her sister, and she really value her, so when she has discovered what Colonel Fitzwilliam has told her about Mr. Darcy, any love evidence, that would have existed before, has vanished.
Well, then you could think why I believed Lizzy was in love with Mr. Darcy. Ther are many answers (at least for me) as the next ones; at the ball, she speak most with him; she appreciates his knowledge and his manners (except that he only danced with fuor girlds)and, altough she wanted to seem she hates him, she dedicates a thought for him every day. But, however, I would be probably wrong, because the latest chapters show she has ill feelings toards him.
Marta, I supposed I would have liked this couple (Lizzy and Mr. Darcy) were a really one, so I saw love where there wasn´t. However, Mr. Darcy is showing more his feelings towards Elizabeth every day, don´t you think so?
According to meet for talking; who would be disposed, besides Roberto and me?
Post your proposals, please!
Lady Catherine believes she has the right to advise, criticise, and prejudice everybody being in a lower social position. I might comprehend such an attitude were I to have such “privileges” as she embraces, however, she is too direct and confident in her appreciations so as to ever feeling herself mistaken. I am convinced there are other ways of showing superiority by making good use of means subtler and less extravagant, aren’t they?
Rebeca, I think it is high time Lizzy analyzes herself a little.
Mistake: "prejudge" instead of prejudice.
Sorry
Hi!
I have noticed that nobody has said anything about Miss King's coming on the scene... Mr Wickham has changed Lizzy for Miss King because Miss King has money! I can't believe it! And i'm very surprised that Lizzy doesn't care about that. She tells her aunt: "A man in distressed circumstances has not time for all those elegant decorums which other people may observe. If she (miss King) does not object to it, why sould we?". I think that Lizzy's words are the prove that she isn't in love with Mr Wickham and that eveything she has said about him (he's the most agreeable and handsome man she has ever met) is an excuse for not showing her feelings about Mr Darcy. We must recognize that Lizzy was too much excited when she met Mr Wickham for the first time. In Lizzy's opinion, he seems to be the most wonderful man in the world, although they didn´t know eachother.
Ups!
"Should" and "proof". Sorry...
Mar I tend to agree with Mrs. Gardiner. I think that Lizzy is stronger than Jane and Jane feels more than Lizzy so it is harder for her to get over things. I think Lizzy did very well in not answering back, at that time that was very rude and she had to keep quiet.
Rebeca don´t forget the s please and don´t talk about what we´ve not read!! It´ll spoil the story for those who have not read it yet. We can speed up a bit if you want but if not no going ahead please.
I can´t go on I must go to the class let´s see if tonight I can read the rest of your comments I´m very pleased with them you are all getting better, I´m sure you write them quicker.
You have just reached the 400th comment. Well done!
Keep going!!
:-)
I must apologize for telling events of the novel that belong to the next chapters. In those moments I would be thinking that we al have just read them; sorry again.
On the other hand, I enterily agree with Itziar; why aren´t Lizzy concerned about her? Mr. Wickham, her last nearly boyfriend, has forgotten her!And it is dued to mony, don´t you think it is a pitty? I mean, that men flatter women only by their richness. But as the novel tells us, money was very important then, Does it continue being so important today?I´m afraid so.
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