7 de octubre de 2008

"PRIDE AND PREJUDICE" (Jane Austen)

Jane Austen (1775-1817) is one of the greatest English women novelists. This, her most popular novel, features the novelists´favourite heroine, Elizabeth Bennet, and most women´s favourite hero, Mr. Darcy.
We know that all our students will enjoy the novel so please join in with your comments!

732 comentarios:

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Carmen dijo...

Hello fourths,you are going to read one of the most famous of English novels and we are sure you will love it. This reading will help you to improve your English, will raise your level of competence in the language and will give you great enjoyment. Use this section to discuss the novel and the characters you meet. Have fun!

Roberto 5ºB dijo...

Dear students,

How lucky you are!, this novel of Jane Austen’s being a marvellous one, full of charming characters. Not only are you joining the “club” but you will also enjoy this blog every single time you click on it. I really recommend you both to make good use of it and to keep writing your thoughts or whatever concerning the book. Do not be afraid of making mistakes, it doesn’t matter, because it is your practise and effort that will make you improve and when the end of the course ARRIVE, you will realize your level has increased a lot. Besides, Marta and Carmen’s support is always very valuable.

DO NOT MISS THIS CHANCE, please.

María 5ºB dijo...

Hi fourths! I read Pride and Prejudice in the second year, with Carmen, and I loved it, much more than Persuasion. The gripping plot, amusing dialogues and entertaining situations make this novel a masterpiece. Without forgetting the main characters: Elizabeth and Darcy whom women desire... Simply marvellous! Enjoy reading as we did last year reading our dearest "The woman in white"!
I say the same as Roberto, don´t miss the chance!

Carmen dijo...

Well, thanks for your posts 5ths! I´ve liked that subjunctive very much, Roberto. We have no 4ths yet on the blog!!! they are not like you, daffs

magdalena dijo...

Hi,I´m magdalena, I´m 12 years old and studying 1st year E.S.O, 8th year in the British Council School. I´ve seen the film "Pride and Prejudice" in English (many times)and now I´m starting the book. I´ve already read 4 chapters. My favourite characters so far are Lizzy and Mr. Darcy, i like Lizzy because she clever, because of her pert comments and because she has personality, in my school they are all the time saying this one is a "friky" that one is a "friky", and Lizzy is considered a "friky" by Mr. Bingley´s sisters but she doesn´t mind. I like Mr. Darcy because he a proud man like some rich men are, because he talks very sensibly and because he is like a man ought to be (thuogh I don´t have many experience of men) not one boys of my school is like Mr. Darcy.

roberto dijo...

Welcome Magdalena and thank you for joining our blog. I am impressed of having so young a student doing the forth year. You have to take advantage of this opportunity so that you might master the language when you grow up. You are in the right path.

I hope you have seen the BBC film instead of the one performed by Keira Knightley because they are quite different to each other, the first one being excellent and the new version rather plain.

Young as you are, you might appreciate the characters of Mrs. and Mr. Bennet, too. They are marvellous particularly the “foolish” Mrs. Bennet.

marta dijo...

Hi everybody! Roberto your last comment to Magdalena is brilliant in everything well done for structure use and vocabulary.
Magdalena I´m impressed by your comment, the way you have linked it to your school live is very clever, well done. You have forgotten "is" twice, probably you haven´t even realised, it happens to all of us but double-check it is probably the safest thing to do. I am sorry that none of the boys at school is like Mr. Darcy, but I´m afraid none of the "boys" I know is like Mr. Darcy either! So I suppose we´ll have to do without!
I hope that the fourth years will soon join us in the blog and give their opinion.
The novel is a pleasure to read and it is a good way of learning about the English customs.

Roberto dijo...

Thank you Marta for your compliment. I appreciate it.

magdalena dijo...

I´ve seen the 2 films but the one I´ve seen most is the BBC, it is one of my favourite films (if not my favourite!)I´ve seen it so many times that I know it off by heart. I also like Mr. and Mrs. Bennet , I like them because Mrs. Bennet is the kind of mother that only cares about her children marrying well and sometimes she doesn´t think a lot about what she says, I like Mr. Bennet because he is mostly of the time pulling Mrs. Bennet´s leg. Thank you very much for letting me join the blog.

natalia dijo...

Hi fifths, I´m glad to see people really get involved with this reading club and encourage other students to do so. I hope fourths will soon post their comments on the first chapters, the characters and the situations. Just have a go! You´ll love it.

roberto dijo...

What is your opinion concerning the ball in which we are introduced Mr. Darcy for the first time? I think you notice how people use to judge only by appearances, for Mr. Darcy despite of being rude when giving such an opinion about Lizzy, he might act in the way that he does because of his unwillingness to social events. I mean, not every-body is made for showing an outgoing character and I admire the fact that he doesn’t pretend.

magdalena dijo...

I agree with you Roberto, Mr. Darcy is not the kind of man that is very sociable, the contrary to Mr. Bingley who as Mr. Darcy says "..he aproves of the world and everyone in it.." I think Mr. Darcy was very wrong in regecting Lizzy, a friend of mine was not asked to dance at a camp, how would you feel if it were you? I would have felt a bit bad though I would´t have minded a lot, I don´t think my friend did either.

Carmen dijo...

Roberto, Mr. Darcy is rich thus he does as he pleases. He does not forget his superior position compared with that of the rest of the company, his own party included, and this is what one cannot approve of. Of course it is understandable, of course it happens, anyone who is superior is even if it is only occasionaly proud. Mr. Darcy does not bother to be polite because he finds that the rest are too low!! Would he have given this answer of a Duchess?

Paloma5º c dijo...

Goodness me!! I am really surprised! I’ve enter this section because I love the book, In fact it is by far my fovourite one thus far (Jane Eyre is becoming a fearful opponent), and I’ve been really surprised seeing María, and Roberto have already posted some comments. I thought I was doing something “terrible”! But what most have surprised me has been to find Magdalena telling us her opinion. Congratulations lovely!, you deserve our admiration and respect. Most fourths and fifths don’t dare to do what you hare doing. Discussing the novel with you will be a great pleasure.
During the ball Mr. Darcy was extremely rude, even if Elisabeth hadn’t listened to him. Being shy it’s not an excuse. First of all, a man must be a gentleman, especially if he is between people under his own condition. In some situations behaving as Mr. Darcy did in the ball can be offensive for other people; under no circumstances can a gentleman on his condition allow himself to make others feel they are inferior to him. Noblesse oblige!

Carmen dijo...

Mr. Darcy was only a gentleman no nobility in that!!! Now seriously because I understand what you mean Mr. Darcy thinks that he is above other people, he is above rules, because his money gives him priviledges and people, in general put up with him. whaatever he does because of his money and conaequence. Does this happen nowadays?

marta dijo...

I see that there are a lot of comments and of the fifths too! Darcy was horrible when he said "she is tolerable but not hansome enough to tempt me....." but aren´t men often like that? Aren´t they nasty about women´s looks? He shows no feelings but I think it´s not so uncommon amongst them to speak like that.
Elisabeth is quite a sport to laugh it off, I think Magdalena has a point when she says that you don´t care so much when that happens to you, you think "oh well, suit yourself, if you don´t like me I don´t like you either and that´s that."
In any case I think the meeting is one of the most original and funny one can read about in literature. It is more usual to have the man falling, sometimes literally so (Mr. Rochester),for the woman. But this is more interesting, let´s see how the relationship develops. The first scene is certainly promising.

Paloma dijo...

Carmen, of course this happen nowadays, and will happen always as long as the world is (or be if you prefer, I’m a fifth and proper subjunctive is not an enemy for my any more)
Anyway, I believe people who have class, never would behave as Mr. Darcy does. It seems to me that nowadays this behaviour is more typical of the new rich than of “people with class”. ¿Have you seen the film starred Julie Andrews? It shows perfectly well what I meant

Roberto dijo...

Having seen BBC series and read the abridged version but not the full one, I am getting impressed with the book. I have this feeling because in the book you are given quite more information related to characters’ thoughts, for in the film you have to guess what their feelings are. For instance, you keep anxious to know what Mr. Darcy really feels for Miss Bennet and it is not until he expresses openly his love towards her that we find it out. However, Jane Austen is willing to anticipate any sentiment the characters have, it making you have two different perspectives either if you read the book or watch the film. By reading, you know more about Mr. Darcy than Lizzy, nevertheless, in the film you keep discovering things at the same time she does.

Chapter 6 is a very interesting one and I want you to discuss a little about the next quotes concerning human behaviour:

PRIDE:
‘Pride,’ observed Mary, who piqued herself upon the solidity of her reflections, ‘is a very common failing, I believe. By all that I have ever read, I am convinced that it is very common indeed; that human nature is particularly prone to it, and that there are very few of us who do not cherish a feeling of self-complacency on the score of some quality or other, real or imaginary. Vanity and pride are different things, though the words are often used synonymously. A person may be proud without being vain. Pride relates more to our opinion of ourselves, vanity to what we would have others think of us.’

Do you agree with such a statement?

RELATIONSHIPS:
…but it is sometimes a disadvantage to be so very guarded. If a woman conceals her affection with the same skill from the object of it, she may lose the opportunity of fixing him; and it will then be but poor consolation to believe the world equally in the dark. There is so much of gratitude or vanity in almost every attachment, that it is not safe to leave any to itself. We can all BEGIN freely—a slight preference is natural enough; but there are very few of us who have heart enough to be really in love without encouragement. In nine cases out of ten a women had better show MORE affection than she feels. Bingley likes your sister undoubtedly; but he may never do more than like her, if she does not help him on.’

As a woman, Do you think it to be true?

MARRIAGE:
‘Well,’ said Charlotte, ‘I wish Jane success with all my heart; and if she were married to him to-morrow, I should think she had as good a chance of happiness as if she were to be studying his character for a twelvemonth. Happiness in marriage is entirely a matter of chance. If the dispositions of the parties are ever so well known to each other or ever so similar beforehand, it does not advance their felicity in the least. They always continue to grow sufficiently unlike afterwards to have their share of vexation; and it is better to know as little as possible of the defects of the person with whom you are to pass your life.’

Quite interesting a speech, isn’t it?

As for Mr. Darcy, I agree with all of you and I am sure we may find such a behaviour these days.

Marta, aren’t women like that, too?

Nila 5º C dijo...

Hi again everyone!
This year the fourths are very lucky to read “Pride and Prejudice” (as we were last year reading “The Woman in White”). Like many of you, this is one of my favorites’ novels! In fact, this summer I have re-read it again and I have enjoyed it as always.
I agree with Roberto and Maria about the utility of the blog; joining and using the reading club is one of the best and easiest ways to improve your English. This year I foresee I will read your comments more than mine (relating to “Jane Eyre”). I also have read Jane Eyre twice and I do not like it as much as Pride.... I hope Carmen (and my classmates) made it much more enjoyable and pleasant as I bring it forward.
According to Mr. Darcy, I agree with Carmen about the fact that nobody can feel superior to anyone (and of course it happens then and nowadays), I agree with Paloma that it is not a gentlemanlike behavior, and of course, I agree with Marta about the Elizabeth-Darcy meeting is one of the funniest scenes one can read  but I would like to insist on the SHYNESS, that I believe it seems to be the key in this occasion. Anyway, we usually do not forgive “Pride” in rich people as we do in modest ones; in this second case it is a virtue and we relate it with proud and honor. How do you call the “pride” from Elizabeth to Mr. Darcy? She is not rich, and she has been offended by Darcy’s behavior but, will she be less arrogant than he is?

marta dijo...

Roberto, you have picked three very interesting speeches relating to human nature.
I think Mary gives a very good definition of pride and vanity she differenciates them quite well. And she is also right that most of us have pride in some aspect or other. Mary proofs cleverer in this speech than in all the others, which is also a human trait, that even someone who is quite stupid can say something clever.
Charlotte tries to prove her point and I´m sure that in that time she had a point but I´m not so sure that this is a good tactic nowadays when marriage can be broken easily. I agree, though, that often marriage is a question of luck, but I think the more you know the other person the better. Some people have met and married in 3 months, and they were happy forever but I suppose it was luck.I think that today men do not like to see things so clearly and it is better not to let your feelings show. In Jane´s case it was obvious that Bingley liked her so she should have shown him that she felt the same but if the man is not so obviously after you, showing too much can be a catastrophy. Not with all men does this work but in general I think that showing too much is bad.
What do you think? Give us ladies a clue as to how we should act!! Some sound advice would be a help, I´m sure.

Paloma dijo...

After having been married for nearly 26 years, I think Charlotte is not on the wrong track. At that time couples hadn’t much contact before their wedding and so, they cannot know each other very well. Nowadays is the same more or less. We think we know each other, but, only living together show people as they really are. Furthermore, I dare say also the “belonging” I mean, for me people in marriage behave in a different way than in cohabitation. Charlotte is right, you can imagine, but you never know.
Regarding the fact of showing your feeling I also agree with charlotte: Men are hunters they need “to see” the piece and then hunting it, and the excitement lies in the pursuit. The more difficult is to get a piece, the more appreciate it is. So you have to show you are “a piece” and then “to be difficult” but from time to time “coming out from among the bushes” so as to encourage the hunter.

Carmen dijo...

Roberto, i totally agree with Charlotte, and woman has to show some partiality or she may never get him. then it was vital because ther was little opprtunity of being in company,alone with a man but nowadays if you rject a man or indiffernce to him he´ll go for someone who is not so "superior" so aloof!
As for the other two speeches I think Marta is right,any fool, and Mary is one, can be capable of saying something clever.
I´m so glad you all like Pride and Prejedice, but Jane Eyre is wonderful as well, keep reading, Nila.
Paloma, those who have class are very capable of saying that and worse things about anything or anybody. How many times have we seen lately unwanted comments made by politicans or the royals when they thoughtt that the press conference was already finished? What we understand by class does have anyhting to do with this! Mr. Darcy is speaking to a friend and privately!!! come on, Elizabeth is evesdropping, she is not one for been polite, she definitely has less class than Darcy. What about her pert commets?

Carmen dijo...

Roberto I´ve read your post in our section about PandP. You sure like Jane Austen!! In this you are one with me she is great, because she has a great deal of sense of humour which is not so present in the Brontes, they were puritans..so...

roberto dijo...

Carmen, you are completely right. Pride and Prejudice is full of funny characters and situations. Despite the main characters focus the plot, I love both Mrs. and Mr. Bennet. Besides, I keep also watching the BBC film once and again and Mr. Collins is marvellous on account of his pompous behaviour and flattering Mr.Darcy’s aunt every time. However hardly he tries to pretend which he is not, he is always either rejected or ridiculed, though never feeling upset. In someway, He acts like Mrs. Bennet and Mary in Persuasion do, that is to say, throughout their perception, isn’t he?.

roberto dijo...

Mistake:

Doesn't he?

Carmen dijo...

Well, Mr. Collins is a sucker and he is closer to Mrs. Bennet in a way but Mrs. Bennet has got more pride than him, he is put out by rich, well-connected people like Mr. Darcy but Mrs. Bennet will not like him once she discovers that he despises his daughters, don´t you think?

Paloma dijo...

As you know Mary is in love with Mrs. Collins. I agree with Carmen, in all likelihood if Mrs. Bennet, her daughters’ marriage being her first priority, had been aware of this fact, and the reasons that drive Mr. Collins to get married, she would have flown into a rage when he left her house and proposed to Charlotte. In fact she is always telling in a contemptuous way “those Collinses….!!” So Carmen you are right, in the end Mrs. Bennet don’t like him. In fact I doubt she had ever liked him ( considering he has a good position but he’s not well-off), but he’s the heir of Mr. Bennet and his marrying one of her daughters is a step forward in order that the property remains “useful” for her and her daughters if Mr. Bennet dies.

roberto dijo...

Mrs Bennet is willing to do anything provided she has her daughters married and the time she “demands” that Jane should be sent to Mr. Bingley’s house on horseback made me laugh. Confident about the success of such an idea, Mrs. Bennet does not hesitate to put her daughter under rain and chilly weather because she realizes that its consequences will be useful so that Jane might receive an offer of marriage.

marta dijo...

I have always thought it was a pity that Mr. Collins didn´t marry Mary, Mary must have a husband!But I suppose that Charlotte was a much better choice, Mr. Collins shows some intelligence in choosing her just as he shows some sense in trying to marry his cousins first. He is a delightful character in his stupidity. The novel wouldn´t be the same without him, Mrs. Bennet and him add a lot to the novel and in the BBC film they are two of the best.

marta dijo...

By the way where are the fourths?? I wonder if they have begun the novel?

Paloma dijo...

Marta some of your fourths deserve a telling-off. Yesterday y was in Pasajes and one of them asked for the book , he called it “pride an prejudice” (read it en perfect Spanish)I told him: If Marta had heard you to pronounce like that, she would have killed you. He stared at me as if I were a ghost and said nothing.

maría 5ºB dijo...

ahahahaha, Paloma you are great! Fourths may be waiting for you, Marta. When are you coming back??

marta dijo...

Paloma well done! I hope they are reading, but I sometimes doubt it because they don´t write anything I wonder why the teacher doesn´t encourage them or maybe she does and they are hopeless! Well, it´s a pity because the novel is great and I don´t know whether they are aware of it. I don´t know yet when I´m coming I should be back on the 2nd November but my father has to go to the doctor on the 5th, so I might stay one more week, María, as you see this is Hamlet talking but he is not what he was and I have apprehensions when I think of going...

Paloma dijo...

I don’t know whether to write so often here. This is a thread for the fourths but they don’t write at all, which is a pity because the book is wonderful. Maria we need you to write more frequently and so Marta and Carmen, otherwise the exchange of opinions isn’t fluid and very little can be said, don’t you agree?
I’m very sorry to bother you, Carmen and Marta. I know you are teachers and you are really busy but for me is a shame to let this opportunity go by. It’s worth reading the novel and discussing it. For heaven shake! It is a masterpiece! What are the fourths thinking about?!!!

roberto dijo...

Chapter 8 gives us so quite interesting an issue to discus, the characters supporting opposite opinions when accomplished women subject is concerned. Mr. Bingley thought as being a gentleman by Bennet’s family, makes me feel a little bit discontent because of his perception about what a accomplished woman is. However, it is proud Mr. Darcy who adds some more qualities women “must” embrace besides playing instruments, reading, drawing and dancing in order to be considered accomplished, even though he expresses his contempt for those women convinced that they are many times undeserving of being something else than perfect means of entertainment. Do you think there are women like these nowadays? I mean, women “so severe upon their own sex”.

Anyway, It is a pity women were “prevented” to develop more skills than those established by the epoch as primordial so that they might be called “an accomplished woman”, isn’t it?

roberto dijo...

Mistake:

Primordial is a word doesn't have the meaning I wanted to express. The proper one could be "vital"

roberto dijo...

One more mistake:

...is a word WHICH doesn't...

Paloma dijo...

I didn’t know what chapter you were reading. Roberto, as you speak in your last post about chapter eight, I’ve read it. This chapter is one of my favourites. Miss Bingley and her sister show how stupid they are. Today they will make the perfect “pija”.
Mr Hurst makes clear two important things; the first one is how boring life could be for the rich at that time and the second one what extreme was a lady able to reach in order to get a rich husband. Mr. Hurst is undoubtedly an unpresentable, half alcoholic, lazy and without any conversation. How dare his wife to speak badly about anybody?
Miss Bingley is so eager to lay her hands on Mr. Darcy, and shows it’s so obviously, that even him tells her “ there is meanness in “all” the arts which ladies sometimes etc .etc.”
For me Mr. Bingley is quite a normal young person for his time and I dare say a good person too. But, the others?! They are nasty, Mr Darcy included, and two-faced. Nevertheless, in Mr. Darcy’s defence I must tell you he strikes me as being, apart from Elizabeth, the only one with an interior life. At least he is interested in reading and knowledge, and he values these characteristics in others.
Sorry Roberto I haven’t been able to answer your question, I haven’t quite understood what you meant.

marta dijo...

You are both very right in your appreciations. Paloma´s quote proofs that Mr.Darcy is much more intelligent and worthy than the rest, and also in Roberto´s when he analises women he does it without triviality which is exactly the opposite to what Miss. Bingley is doing, he values women more than the others because he does it in more depth

maría 5ºB dijo...

Paloma, you say you want me to be here too, but I have no time to post comments in every thread, to write compositions, to think of honour, to read Jane Eyre... Where are the fourths?? We are always the same people! Magdalena started writing... Keep posting! We need new people here! Moreover you are an expert in Pride and Prejudice!
Roberto, are you asking if there are women who think that they are mere instruments of entertainment? I don´t think so at all. Were it so, we would be foolish for wasting our talent!!

Roberto dijo...

I meant if you consider some women as behaving severely upon their own sex so as to get the man they love.

I got impressed by reading the following quote of Mr. Darcy’s related to humility: “Nothing is more deceitful,’ said Darcy, ‘than the appearance of humility. It is often only carelessness of opinion, and sometimes an indirect boast.” “…The indirect boast; for you are really proud of your defects in writing, because you consider them as proceeding from a rapidity of thought and carelessness of execution, which, if not estimable, you think at least highly interesting. The power of doing anything with quickness is always prized much by the possessor, and often without any attention to the imperfection of the performance.”

I completely agree with these statements, and you?

marta dijo...

María is right, where are the 4ths???? They are going to get a good telling-off from me when I go back, the only good thing, María, is that the more you practise the better you will write and the quicker, and that is very convenient in any profession because you are bound to have to write in English in a global world!! So Paloma is pushing you in the right direction, though of course you need time and there is a lack of it!
I think there are some women who do see themselves as mere entertainers and there is nothing they would rather do. It is not a bad life if you get someone to "sponsor" you it is even a very good life as you don´t have to do much. Many people are very willing to go through life with the least inconvenience to themselves.
Roberto I think Mr.Darcy being as clever as he is, can prove many points because his line of thought is clever and well carried out but I´m not so sure I see humility as he does. He is right that some people are false when they are humble, but some others are not they don´t boast of their assets. I believe Mr.Darcy is showint his pride in this comment. Maybe not but I see it so

maría 5ºB dijo...

Yes, of course I know that the more I write the more I learn, and I also know that Paloma is pushing me in the right direction, but that direction is what I am always following! But if I don´t do anything else!! Don´t tell me off! I am Jane Eyre!! What an injustice!

Ok, Roberto, I understand you now, and me answer is Yes. Women behave severely upon their own sex so as to get the men they love. Haven´t you noticed it yet? Women do whatever they need to get a man, then, each one follows her particular way. And one way is being a bitch with the oponents. Of course, there are another good ways that good women follow. Jealousy and envy are very wicked feelings...

maría 5ºB dijo...

my answer, I wanted to say...

maría 5ºB dijo...

Oh my God, I wanted to say witch instead of bitch!! Sorry sorry sorry!

Paloma dijo...

I think there are two different points in this quote. The first one is about humility. I think it’s a matter of education or, even, of culture. I was taught at school that one of worse faults was to be proud and that humility is one of the best Christian virtues. We were said that we must try to be as the Virgin Mary, the perfect model of humility. Obviously I disagree with Darcy.
The second point is about writing, is it not? Well about this point I could say that I partially disagree. I mean, you always have to be polite, and to make a correct use of the language but the way in which you say things is also very important and differs very much from who are you wring to or what are you writing. For example, if you have writing to a minister you do it in a different way and more careful than if you write to a friend. On the other hand in my opinion you have to consider what kind of text you are writing. For instance: when write a composition I use more formal structures and words than when I write in the blog. When I’m here I try to do my best, of course, but using a language more similar to the one ho people use every day, more “spoken English”, if you get my meaning. In my opinion the important thing here is to be easily understood and make the exchange of opinions more fluent. Do I consider this what Darcy says?
“You consider them as proceeding from a rapidity of thought and carelessness of execution, which, if not estimable, you think at least highly interesting “
I really don’t know, but what I know is that make a display of grammatical knowledge or formal vocabulary in the blog could be stiff and give people some impression of pompousness.

Paloma dijo...

I've published the comment without reading it.As usual I've forgotten some letters and change others. Please forgive my mistakes:you always have to be/ you have alwaysto be, wring instead of writing, have/ are,when I write a composition without the pronoum, ho/who. I really sorry

Roberto dijo...

Marta, I completely agree with your comment about Darcy.

María, I dislike women like Miss Bingley behaving in the way that she does to get Darcy’s attention. Pathetic!

Paloma, you know that people many times show themselves humble so as to give an indirect boast. As for “the second point”, I am convinced that Darcy meant that Mr. Bingley is content by having so rapidity of thought even though he is unable to display it written, therefore, Darcy cannot see what he has such an skill for if he doesn’t have a proper execution.

Anyway, I try to write using complex structures, for I want to learn the most sophisticated way to express myself and then I may always go back and do it easier.

I always check my comments before posting them.

Paloma dijo...

But people may don't undrestand you at all!!!

maría 5ºB dijo...

Hi babies! These blogs are so good because they allow us to experiment with the language. All of us, I think, could write easier messages (easier to understand because of its simple structure). However, we choose new learnt structures, we are testing, and sometimes run the risk of making mistakes or of not being understood. The good thing is that we will be corrected thanks to our dearest teachers!

maría 5ºB dijo...

Miss Bingley is pathetic, yes. As she can´t get the man whom she desires, she becomes jealous and spends her time making fun of Elizabeth's family, inviting Darcy to imagine them connected to his proud and respectable line.

marta dijo...

Paloma remember that "may" inverts itself for the negative, so "people may not understand you" you have probably not reread and that is a slip, like when María says "another ways",(an + other, and "an" means "one") and a few others but don´t worry at all.
I never read any of your comments without thinking "My God, how good they are!" I´m always surprised, believe me, it´s very difficult to write how you do about what about you write so you must be very proud of the level you have reached.
Mr. Darcy thinks that he is superior, in that, he is very proud too, he does look down on people, and thanks to his money which gives him a lot of self-confidence, he despises other people´s opinions because he knows that he will always be accepted. He is proud but not silly. He probably gets that pride from his mother, Lady Catherine´s sister, she was bound to have been proud, his father was different, if we can believe, Mr.Wickam and I think we can. Let´s see if Darcy manages to develop those good qualities that are probably in him but that he has not shown yet. We´ll see, let´s not spoil the story for the 4ths if they ever read this which I doubt!!!!!

Susana 5ºC dijo...

Hi everybody!

Please, think about this quotation:

"To be humble to superiors is duty, to equals courtesy, to inferiors nobleness." (Benjaming Franklin).

What do you think?

Paloma dijo...

Susana I love your quote and I completely agree. Where did you find it? Thank you Marta, you are right I was doing the ironing when in a short break went to the computer to check the blog and wrote a quick answer to Roberto. From my first year I know May is a modal, and modal construct the negative with not. Rush things is good for nothing.

maría 5ºB dijo...

Yes, Franklin´s quote is fantastic. I wish it were the truth! What about those?

“Humility is like underwear, essential, but indecent if it shows” (Helen Nielsen, writer)

“What makes humility so desirable is the marvelous thing it does to us; it creates in us a capacity for the closest possible intimacy with God” (Monica Baldwin, writer)

Paloma dijo...

Pido disculpas por escribir este comentario en español, pero la cita que quiero explicar lo es y si lo hago en inglés me temo que quede poco claro.
Antonio Machado por boca de su heterónimo Juan de Mairena nos habla de lo siguiente:
Los acontecimientos consuetudinarios que acontecen en la rua = lo que pasa en la calle
Personalmente creo que para el blog es muchísimo mejor la segunda opción. A veces, llevados por el deseo de demostrar lo que hemos aprendido o para impresionar a Carmen y Marta, escribimos “los acontecimientos consuetudinarios que acontecen en la rua”. ¿Entendéis lo que quiero decir? No es que ensayemos nuevas estructuras, es que, a veces, nos complicamos excesivamente la vida a la hora de decir las cosas, olvidando la belleza de la sencillez y la claridad.

Paloma dijo...

Me dicen que si no pongo la cita completa no se entiende nada. Os la escribo por si acaso.
Mairena en su clase de retórica y poética:
- Señor Pérez, salga usted a la pizarra y escriba: “los eventos consuetudinarios que acontecen en la rúa”
El alumno escribe lo que se le dicta.
- Vaya usted poniendo eso en lenguaje poético.
El alumno, después de meditar, escribe: “lo que pasa en la calle”
Mairena. – No está mal

Dice Machado: “tendencia a la expresión alambicada, que seduce al burgués, y a la paráfrasis hinchada y pedante. Por ejemplo: “lo que pasa en la calle” se traduce por “los eventos consuetudinarios que acontecen en la rúa” perversión del gusto e incapacidad para estimar lo sencillo”

Susana 5ºC dijo...

Paloma, I have found on the Internet:http://www.brainyquote.com

María, I complete agree with both quotations.

In the first one, you could replace the word "humility" for any word like "patience", "modesty" so on.

Thank you for your answer.

maría 5ºB dijo...

Paloma, I understand you and love the way you have said it, which is true. What happens to me is that I try to say in English what I´d say in Spanish. So consequently, it gets complex and incomprehensible. Do you know what I mean?
Carmen, are Miss Bingley´s weapons to "shoot" to other women? Is that something good to say about her?

Roberto dijo...

Marta, once more I agree with you by writing that it is his privileged position in life that makes Mr. Darcy be confident both in his proud and contempt towards anyone being less well connected. In deed, he admits it when thinking of Miss Bingley clever answers “He really believed, that were it not for the inferiority of her connections, he should be in some danger.”

Susana and María, I really liked your quotes.

Paloma, you must write in English, come what may.

Paloma dijo...

Say what we may this is means to practice, I think I usually work at it widely, suffice it to say I am one of the most prolix writers in the blog, that is why it does not matter if once or twice I write in my own language. Be that as it may the important thing is communication, and, go where I might I like to be articulate, and for that reason I wrote my last comment in the language of Cervantes instead in that of Shakespeare.

Roberto dijo...

I am really sorry but I don't agree with you, Paloma. This is a blog made to write in English and being one of its leading participants, perhaps you should show yourself as an example for the rest of pupils. Anyway, I respect your opinion.

maría 5ºB dijo...

Why don´t we talk about Pride and Prejudice, each one as he/she can? I want to see BBC´s film. Has anybody got it who could lend me? Because I have not much more comments about it! I don´t remember every chapter accurately. I need to see it so that I could post more here.

Paloam dijo...

Maria I have it

Roberto dijo...

So do I.

maría 5ºB dijo...

Well, we may do an exchange... What would you want me to lend you that I can have???? mmmmm... I have Little Britain!! Very funny! Do you want it?? ;)

Roberto dijo...

Firstly, I would like to explain why I keep posting comments related to particular chapters, to Paloma and María. I do it on account of my trying to follow the course, I mean, without reading farther than we should, for as you know we ought to speak about what it has been already read in class either the chapter coming. I am not sure whether students have to read one or two chapters per day, thus, I split the book into couples of chapters. (Perhaps they are reading chapter 16).

Anyway, at length Mr Collins appears into the stage, I longed for reading about such a peculiar character and the first meeting arranged by Bennet’s so as to know him is going to be quite funny, I dare say.

On the other hand, I am really enjoying the book, it being like pure entertainment since it is Jane Eyre that we have to read and study and therefore I may read this marvellous book with more liberty and pleasure. Besides and despite Jane’s being an excellent novel, Pride and Prejudice offers you many characters and situations to discuss, don’t you think?, together with plenty of funny moments which I need so that I might laugh as I scarcely do it lately.

What do you think concerning the following statements?

“Yes, vanity is a weakness indeed. But Pride- where there is a real, superiority of mind, pride will be always under good regulation”.

“My good opinion once lost, is lost forever”.

“And “your” defect is a propensity to hate everybody” (Elizabeth Bennet)
“And yours is wilfully to misunderstood them” (Mr Darcy)

The last one I think it to describe briefly how these two characters are.

roberto dijo...

Mistake:

...being AS pure entertaiment

marta dijo...

I see that you are all commenting like mad and the 4ths missing! I agree with Roberto the novel is worth talking about and it has a lot of topics to comment.(I found the various descriptions of humility very interesting). I love the quotes that Roberto provides I. The one of "my good opinion.." shows very well that Mr.Darcy is stern to say it mildly!! One is almost afraid of him, Elisabeth is not and that is probably what catches his attention first. The dialogue between them is also fantastic.
Jane Austen is sometimes considered the first feminist, although the concept of feminism was defined much later, do you agree? Or do you think that is impossible?

Carmen dijo...

Roberto, eventually we will not find arguments against you, because you argue very well!!
I love those quotes, and on the subject of mr. Collins what do you thnk of this one:"do you think that we will find him to be a fool?" says Lizzy, and Mr. Bennet answers "I strong hopes that we will" it´s not an accurate one but so funny. Mind you it says a lot about Mr. bennet and his capacity to laugh, at his own daughters, wife and heir!! should you be so happy to enjoy the ridicule of your own kin? Is this dangerous? Can it affect the relationships of your family and the opinion that others have of them and you?

Roberto dijo...

Dear Marta and Carmen,

Firstly, I sincerely want you to know how important is having both of you keeping posting on the blog despite the fact that you are busy, for I know it takes you much time to read all comments and give answers. Besides, it is always very encouraging reading your complements. I wonder what shall I do next year when I be without you. It is a pity good things in life do not last.

Let us go back to this thrilling discussion. Marta, I think you have a point on saying Miss Bennet has interested Mr. Darcy, since she is not scared of him and perfectly able to keep up with his speeches, Miss Bingley given in. On the other hand, I am not sure whether Jane Austen might be considered as a feminist. As a consequence of an epoch ruled by men and therefore the only way to show how women’s world is, she develops her novels throughout women’s perception and focuses on them.

I love Mr. Bennet and his sarcastic behaviour and I dare say I could see myself reflected in that sophisticated way of criticism and enjoyment. His consciousness related to his sharply comments usually unnoticed by his environment except Lizzy, she being the only one who picks them up, make Mr. Bennet be content . He might behave in the way that he does because there is no changing his family manners and therefore, is there something better than taking it philosophically instead of suffering for so foolish kin?

Carmen, I have a huge sense of ridicule when introducing relatives is concerned and were I have such a family, it would affect myself beyond a doubt even if I love and accept them as they are. Don’t you think proud is also mixed in the issue? All of us are keening of being accepted and feel afraid of give disappointment to others.

marta dijo...

Roberto, think of what Austen is saying in her novel. Is she not putting right before our eyes the very difficult position women are placed in when they do not have a male son or brother? The English way of endowing the state to the male in the family certainly leaves women with only one possibility: a good marriage. If they don´t marry well how can they survive? Mrs. Bennet says it the whole time, Mr. Bennet is not so concerned and in that way he shows his deficiencies as a father as he himself admits later.
However he is a delightful father and has a wonderful sense of humour, something very important for Anglo-Saxons. The Yankees have it to, just take a look at the elections, sense of humour is used by both candidates and the public values it as an asset. Palin managed to laugh off the Canadian journalist´s prank, and I can tell you that was quite something! Our politicians are not able to do that they lack sense of humour as most of us do. Don´t you agree?

marta dijo...

Ah! I enjoy reading all your comments... they are interesting and well-written it´s great to see that we have contributed to your knowlegde and competence. Of course it takes time but...

Paloma dijo...

Marta yesterday evening my whole family saw your brother on television. As we changed the channel when he was already speaking , I didn’t recognise him at first ,but, when I heard his name I cried: Eih! Hi’s Carmen’s brother!!! And everybody was quiet and put attention. Unfortunately he was finishing his interview and we cannot hear very much what he was saying. What a pity!

Roberto dijo...

Marta, you are completely right about Mr. Bennet.

It is amazing the way English people used to deal with such an imortant issue as the inheritance is.

Spanish politicians are quite boring.

maría 5ºB dijo...

Hi! Tonight Carmen and Marta´s brother is participating at 59" (TVE1) as an expert on USA elections.

Mario dijo...

Hi to everybody! I think I am supposed to be one of the very few "fourths" in this interesting blog.

Firstly, let me introduce myself: My name is Mario and I am very delighted to join not only this blog but also the School for the first time. I wish I could have written my views and opinions about "Pride and Prejudice" before but I spent last month refreshing my English because I had not studied this wonderful language for a long time.

In my group we are at the very early stage of the plot(chapters 5 & 6)and I have to confess that I find it thrilling and interesting. The way Jane Austen describes the feelings, attitudes, beliefs and concerns of the different characters is absolutely charming. Reading her novel always proves to be a surprising and enjoyable effort (and sometimes a bit difficult task).

Thank you for all your comments and opinions. In my view it is the best way of improving my range of vocabulary and getting accuracy in writing. Sorry for the mistakes.I hope to "read" you as soon as possible.

marta dijo...

Well one 4th at last! Hi, Mario are you one of my students? I hope so. I´m glad you like the novel it is a very good one, and I´m delighted that you enjoy it, some men think it is more a girl´s book but it is not necessarily, it is a book that shows the customs of a people in a certain period and it tells a lot about them. It has sense of humour, love, distress, hope, luxury and all the ingredients to make it a worthwhile piece of work and one of the novels in the canon.
I´m so glad you´ve seen my brother! He did it well don´t you think? At last someone famous in the family! We´ll have to get him to come and give us a lecture on the Americans and their ways, he knows them very well. He apears all Thursdays in Intereconomía a programme called Fuego Cruzado.

Roberto dijo...

Mario, you are very welcome to the blog. Besides enjoying it, you will improve your writing skills, learn to think about a novel, get to know new points of view, discuss quite many different issues, and appreciate Marta and Carmen’s wisdom. Every thing you want, YOU GOT IT HERE!

Please, keep going and despite a little bit effort is needed so as to using the blog, it worth doing it.

Marta, I do no think it BE a book made for women but an opportunity to know more about them even though it is settled nearly two hundred years ago. Besides, there are many male characters you may enjoy.

Mr Wickham has been already introduced and his information concerning Mr. Darcy seems to fix with the character the latter has shown up to know. However, Is Elizabeth right by having made her mind up about Mr. Darcy after listening to such a story? I think we usually judge people before hand without attempting to find out how the person really is, don’t we?

Mario dijo...

Hi, Marta and Roberto! Thank you for such a warm welcoming. Marta, you are right! I am one of your students (Advanced 1-A). We are impatiently waiting to meet you tomorrow. Roberto, thank you for your useful pieces of advice. I will try to keep going. Each effort you make in your life may be a rewarding learning and an enjoyable experience. I think writing in this blog is a fruitful one.

Marta, I think that a lecture on the American´s and their ways would be very interesting. And even another one on Nineteen Century´s English society! But I think that Jane Eire´s novel is a good statement about it.

Roberto, I have not reached yet the chapter in which Mr Wickham´s charater is introduced to the readers, but at present time it is a very common deffect, in my view, judging people before hand. Prejudices have always been as a main rule in the behaviour of every kind of society or group. Despite this fact, we have to make ourselves aware of them and try to to fight against them.

It is an impossible task preventing enduringly our relationships and lives from them but we would have to manage it.

Prejudices can be the root cause of mistreatment, racism or social exclusion. We cannot allow them to grow in our daily life. The damage could be irreparable.

Elena Gil - 5B dijo...

Hi everybody!

This is Elena, from 5B. I started reading Pride and Prejudice some months ago, and dropped it for some time because I started reading other books... This happens to me rather often lately. But yesterday I stayed awake until 3 a.m because turning its pages! I have read some of your comments, and discovered people I know, like Roberto5B, Paloma5C, Maria5B... Hey, you are everywhere, hehehe. Indeed, I found some very interesting comments about the way we, women behave when we want a man to notice us, or regarding the way we treat other women. I'll try to read them more carefully at home and give my opinion too!

Roberto dijo...

‘I remember hearing you once say, Mr. Darcy, that you hardly ever forgave, that you resentment once created was unappeasable. You are very cautious, I suppose, as to its
BEING CREATED.’

‘I am,’ said he, with a firm voice.

‘And never allow yourself to be blinded by prejudice?’

‘I hope not.’

‘It is particularly incumbent on those who never change their opinion, to be secure of judging properly at first.’

Elena, I will be glad if you join us together with MORE STUDENTS OF 4TH

Wonderful answer of Miss Bennet's, don't you think?

Anónimo dijo...

Mario! At least a fourth!! Welcome! As Natalia says, some fiths are everywhere which make us be a little bit heavy! ;) Now we´ll have more points of view. It´d be interesting to hear about USA elections from an expert as he is. But, Marta, let me tell you, I don´t think he is more famous than the twins!! ;)
Roberto, thank you so much for the quotes. It makes me remember the great Ms Benneth!

maría 5ºB dijo...

It was me

Mario dijo...

Mario - Advanced 1-A - Hi, María! Thank you for your welcoming! We have already met Marta in an useful and profitable class this afternoon.

I have spent two hours taking notes about phonetics and new vocabulary, concentrated in her explanations and suitable pieces of advice which have emphasized the main role that homework plays in our English learning.

However, I have been a little afraid of joining the different topics of conversation. As she has advised us: "You should get over your shyness". I will try to overcome my fears next time! I will do my best!

We are supposed to read Pride and Prejudice´s seventh and eight chapters this week. In addition, I will propose a topic about them here so "fourths" will be able to take advantage of this and exchange comments and opinions freely.

I hope many "fourths" join the blog in a short time; I trust them. It is an absolutely unique chance we cannot miss at all!

Elena Gil - 5B dijo...

Well, I have finally read (and enjoyed) all your comments. This is a very interesting post indeed! I dare say this book exploits topics I guess I'll never be tired of, mainly relationships. Magdalena, it was very funny what you said about boys in your class not being like Mr Darcy...

Coming back to Roberto's quote about relationships, I agree we (women) have been taught to hide our interest in one particular man. Well, I don't think this is such a good idea because, though men may be genetic 'hunters' as Paloma said, they also have their little heart (don't they?). Nonetheless, some mistery makes both men and women more attractive... I think that's the key to it.

By the way, I remember one male friend telling me that the women he knows are always so proud regarding relationships... I was surprised at it! I suppose we don't speak frankly to them so often as we do to other women... because I was thinking just the same about men!

And regarding the way women behave towards other women ... well, I think we are a bit too cautious or distrustful between us. In fact, I often find it easier to mix up with men. I appreciate their ability to have a good time with you without necessarily confessing all their worries to you... It feels like breathing some fresh air.

Good night and keep writing!

Roberto dijo...

Interesting point of view Elena.

I wonder why we often make these things be so complicated. Anyway, I think both sides to be a little bit proud when exposing your sentiments is concerned since it is always painful being rejected.

Mario, would you mind telling us what chapters are you doing this week? I am not sure whether I am disclosing parts of the book you have not read yet.

I love Mr. Collins’ character!, he is pathetically charming

maría 5ºB dijo...

It is impossible to take BBC´s Pride and Prejudice at EOI lending library. Who has it?? Give it back, please!!
Mario, I´m glad you enjoy this blog. You must transmit the rest of your mates your feeling. They are lazy people, but if someone says them this is good, they may join us...
Elena, you are also in the way of being everywhere! As for relationships is concerned, I think men are always lost, but it is not their fault, but ours. Women not being honest with them at all, men think of us to be in a false way. First of all they don´t know us, and as they are knowing us, they regret. Doesn´t it something that never happens to us, but only to them? Is it because they usually show the way they are openly?

Roberto dijo...

María your last comment makes me recall the following quote from a very famous film:

"…My only regret is that I will never get a chance to visit my favourite historical era - the old west. But time travelling is just too dangerous. Better that I devote myself to study the other great mystery of the universe - women."

BACK TO THE FUTURE (1985)

Roberto dijo...

As for me, I do not enjoy pretending though I must acknowledge being afraid of showing my sentiments openly.

maría 5ºB´ dijo...

Roberto, the quote is very funny!!
I only wanted to say that men are easier to know than women, in every single way. Don´t you agree?

Roberto dijo...

Absolutely!

MAR BERNABE dijo...

MAR BERNABE. Avanzado 1

Hello:

This is another 4th. As all of you were demanding for 4th here I´m. I´m very pleased to take part of the blog as all of you have different points of view. Also my classmate MARIO made good coments.

I would like to know if Paloma, one of the 5th, is Paloma del Alamo as we know each other very well.

About PRIDE AND PREJUDICE I must admit that I´m enjoying the book very much indeed. Now we are reading chapters 7 and 8, that is the reason why we don´t know the characters very well. On the one hand your ideas help us a lot, on the other hand your coments reveal us part of the plot, what a pity!!!!!.

I would like to say something about Mr. Bennet as nobody speaks about him. Obviously the book shows us how relationships were in 18th century, where it was essential to got married to a rich man and a pretty woman. Going back to Mr. Bennet as he is living with his wife and his five daugthers the only way to be out of theirs coments and theirs hopes is thanks to his fine sense of humour. I like him!

Elena Gil - 5B dijo...

Hi Mar! I like Mr Bennet's fine sense of humour too. But, coming back to what Carmen said, I also think it is soooo difficult to keep it when concerning family... I mean, is it realistic? I find it very difficult to detach yourself from your family up to Mr Bennet's point...

Roberto dijo...

Dear Mar, welcome and I beg your pardon for revealing issues about the novel which you have not read yet though I had been doing it trying to split the novel as we do in my course. Anyway, I was forced to act in that way since none of you seemed willing to use this blog.

AS for Mr. Bennet, I am afraid I do not agree with you, for he's one of my favorites characters and several comments have been posting on account of his sarcastic behaviour so as to "bear" such foolish daughters and wife.

Roberto dijo...

I think I did not express myself properly:

...though I had been doing it as a consequence of spliting the novel as we do in my course.

Roberto dijo...

MISTAKE, MISTAKE:

comments have been POSTED.

Sorry!

Clara (advanced1) dijo...

Hello everybody!

This is Clara (4th year). I'm glad to write here for the first time and I hope not to do it wrong!

As Mar has said, we have just begun the novel and that's why we haven't got a strong opinion about the book, at least, from my point of view.

But, for the momment, I have to say that I agree with Mar and Roberto. In spite of the fact that he doesn't seem to be a main character, I think Mr Bennet is one of the best, specially because of his ironics comments against his wife.

Carmen dijo...

Elena, men no heart!!! ask that very common species on Earth "the abandoned woman"
Well you are all very interested in this novel, even my fifths!! I think Charlotte Bronte will dispprove, she thought Elizabeth was not a proper literary character!!
Someone has mentioned Mr. Bennet. I like him quite a lot, he is a clever man and a cultivated one, the country gentleman, who, having fallen in love with a beautiful silly woman, marries her and finds himself stuck and surrounded by stupidity. How does he survive? Locked up in his library (Mr. Fairlie, remember?) and laughing at his family. He, like Mr. fairlie, respects some of the women in his household, his eldest daughters and, admitedly, mixes with them a bit, but in a kind of aloof, detached way, tha´s why he can laugh at them.

Carmen dijo...

Roberto, when we have family that it is not what we would wish for we feel embarrassed and upset when they put their foot in. The older we are the more we tend to disregard this and think that the way we behave towards will not affect their future, but it does in such small communities as that of Longbourn. Mr. bennet should be more careful.

Roberto dijo...

Elena, I think Mr. Bennet is a little bit tired of being surrounded by such a silly wife and daughters even though his eldest ones are quite the opposite, they being the only means to be understood. What ways of fleeing does he have? Either isolation (his library) or enjoyment (his sarcastic comments towards them, many times doubly enjoyed on account of Mrs and Misses not picking them up). However, I grant you that he should be more involved when the future of his state is concerned.

Carmen I completely agree with you though I do not understand when saying. “Elena, men no heart!!! Ask that very common species on Earth “the abandoned woman”.

Raquel dijo...

Hello!
I'm a "fourth" one. I hope to improve my writing with the chat, I am so bad at it...
I have read the last post, there are so different ideas about the characters!
As far as I am concerned, I agree with Mar about Mr. Benet. He makes the reading more agreeable with his comments. On the other hand, if he thinks their daughters are so silly, he should contribute to their education. In chapter 7, he criticizes the smallest ones. Instead of doing that, he could teach any subjects to them.

Elena Gil - 5B dijo...

Raquel, I think you have a point when saying that Mr Bennet should "educate" his youngest girls. But... I know people whom I appreciate in many ways but find exasperating regarding other matters, and I don't really think they can change nor that their parents could have changed this part of their character (i.e, superficiality).

Carmen, it's true that there are a lot of abandonned women, but, as for long-term relationships (more than 5 years, i.e.), I find that lately it's women who usually break up... and leave a desolated "husband" behind. I've recently known several cases in my environment and it's always the woman who leaves! It's is true there are not children involved, but...

Jesús dijo...

Hi Everybody! This is Jesus from Advanced 1A. Actually, I've started to read Pride and Prejudice today. However, from my point of view I think that, Mr Darcy will be an important character for sure.

Roberto dijo...

Sorry, I made a mistake: I meant "estate" in my last post.

I have realised I've said things Carmen had already done before.

marta dijo...

I´m very glad that the fourths are at last here, please remember that adjectives have one form: NO "S". But appart from that I see that you can participate in this activity quite well.
Please 5ths let us catch up with you, reveal as little as possible of the plot, please for instance Jesús says he´s just started! Jesús you´ve got a lot of reading to do this week-end.
Yes Mr. Bennet is nice in his irony and quite clever, except for his marriage. He was silly enough to be captured by a woman who was not of his class and silly too, and in that time you paid for that. Mrs. Bennet, although delightful as a character, don´t you think?, is stupid, and nerve-wrecking as a mother and wife, we couldn´t do without her as a character. What other mothers do you remember in fiction that are so funny? That you remember? That you quote? "Have compassion on my nerves" "Your nerves are my old friends" says Mr. Bennet.
Do you agree?

MAR. Avanzado 1 dijo...

In my opinion Mrs. Bennets resorts to her nerves like the only way to obtein the answer she wants to get or like the only way to get the attention she wants to get from her family. Look at this sentence “When she was discontented she fancied herself nervous”. Obviously after many years married to Mr. Bennet she can´t understand Mr. Bennet´s character, He is much more clever than she is, I agree with Marta when she sayd that he wasn´t clever for his marriage; I think that in spite of him not being clever in that decision, he is not unhappy, probably thanks to his character.

Another comment: watching TV1 today I have watched and advert “proximamente: orgullo y prejuicio”, please don´t feel in the temptation of watching it, first of all because of the language and secondly because it is nicer to follow the plot through the book.

Marta Helena dijo...

All right I´ll try not to watch it although it´s pretty tempting...
I am Marta from first advanced, i just joinned the blog.
What do you think about mr Darcy´s suddenly interest in Elizabeth? I reckon I had prejudged him, maybe he is not as cold as I thougth. I haven´t seen the movie but I think he´ll get her sooner or later.

Mario dijo...

Hi everybody! Special greetings to Advanced 1-A mates!

I agree with Mar in the way Mrs Bennet captivates her husband´s attention but we have to assume one previous consideration: Mrs Bennet is not as stupid as she seems to be in this very early stage of the plot. She acts cunningly, showing a regretful attitude when something does not fit her and giving Mr Bennet the only chance of behaving as Mrs Bennet wants him to do. That is the only way Mr Bennet can get rid of suffering his wife´s moaning day after day.

Is that behaviour supposed to be a nonsensical attitude? I think it is not. Despite being likely introduced by the author as a foolish woman, very fond of gossiping, she proves to be, in my view, a woman who gets what she desires from her husband.

I hope fourths keep on writing in the blog! Keep going!

marian dijo...

Hi, I´m Marian!I´m a fourth too. I know that is a bit late to write here, because we were suposed to do it some time ago, but I have some internet problems and I´m writing from my university.
I hope to improve my writing english with this blog, I think it is very usefull, and the more we write here, the quicker we will do it in a near future.
I hope we will enjoy the book!

Teresa. 4th dijo...

Hello! I’m Teresa, another fourth one.
We have been talking about Mrs. Bennet this afternoon. I think that she is a silly woman who brings up silly daughters, as her husband says, and she is an awful mother as well, since she is not very worried about their education or even their health. Everything is worth when trying to get well married, for she is such a clever woman regarding the marriage. But, as soon as you start reading chapter nine, as she thanks Miss Bingley for taking care of Jane, she says ‘I often tell my other girls they are nothing to her’. Well, that might be a good way to praise Jane but what about the rest of them. What would I say if someone asks me about them? I don’t think Mrs. Bennet is too bright.

Juan Pedro dijo...

Hello¡ My name is Juan Pedro from advanced 1-B.
We just have started the book, and of course he focu are in Lizzy and Mr Darcy.
They look like the black sheep of the family, just because they aren´t so nice and sweet as JAne and Mr. Bengley.
But I suspect, they are goig to give us the best moments of the novel.

MAR. (fourth) dijo...

Hello:

Today in our English classes Marta explained about the importance of marriages in the 18th century to us, so (breach of promise) could give the bride the opportunity to sue the groom.

As I consider that in this novel Jane Austen gives us the opportunity to make comparisons with our current moment, look at this: I watched a news three days ago -it means in 2008, 21st century- about a Spanish bride who days ago sued her boyfriend because of that reason. Do you think that we are going back to the 18th century? or do you think that also in our century there are ladys not very clever like some of the characters? or both.

Roberto dijo...

Despite her foolish behaviour, I consider Mrs Bennet as being a woman of her epoch. Having five daughter and no sons, she is quite conscious concerning both her current condition and her daughters’, for we already know that they will have no roof to life under when Mr. Bennet dies, who is not worried enough about his family future. Therefore, what else can Mrs. Bennet do but trying to have their daughters well married?

On the other hand, up to now scarcely do we know how Mr Darcy is really, since it is Elizabeth that keeps giving us her opinion about the gentleman, it not being a very objective one, don’t you think?

marta dijo...

Marta says that Mr. Darcy will get her sooner or later. Do you agree? Will his money help him? Is it because of that that he is giong to make him successful with women? But Mario do you think that is intelligent in her or a fault in his character? It seems to me he doesn´t bother about his family as he should, he´d rather be in his library reading. But if you have a family and a problem with your daughters future when you die, you should do something not just lock yourself in your library and let them be wild or act as they like.
Mar I think that Mrs. Bennet is stupid and Mr. Bennet is not but he is a pampered man who only wants to be left alone and not have problems in that way he is to blame.
Marian you are very right. Careful with your verbs they have to be coordinated. You will improve surely if you right continuously.
Teresa, yes that comment is devastating. The problem with Mrs. Bennet is that she is so stupid that she puts her foot in always, she exposes both Jane and herself the whole time. What is really different is the respect that the daughters show their mother even if they are aware that she is embarrasing them and that the others despise her.
I think what Mar points out about the abandoned bride is a good topic for a class.
Roberto, it´s true we only see Mr. Darcy through Elisabeth´s mainly, except when he starts feeling the danger of paying her too much attention. Mrs. Bennet is aware of the big problem they have if her husband dies, and not so her husband who seems not to mind, I agree that she is a woman of her time, but she is a silly one because she could have been more intelligent, and in that way she would have helped her daughters more.
I´m glad that the fourths have at last joined!Well done, you will improve, on the whole you structure pattern is good so that is good news!

magdalena dijo...

Elena 5b, thank you very much for your comment.
I, like Lizzy, "..dearly love a laugh..".
Older women are the contrary to us girls, sometimes we are real pests though most of the time we have a good laugh, and hardly ever speak about our worries, I guess we don´t have many and, if we have, a really embarassing one, we normally keep it to ourselves, or we say it to people we really trust, (normally that´s Mummy).
I like boys as friends, I don´t confess them my worries, because they are worse than the girls: they listen very attentively and then laugh or pull a stange face as if we were stupid; when you grow up is it the same??
In chapter 7 we discover that Mr Bennet´s property is of two thousand a year, very little compared to Mr Darcy´s, "..ten thousand a year and very likely more..". We also discover Mr Bennet´s poor opinion of his two youngest daughters. I think Lidya and Kitty are just immature and sometimes very irresponsable. In chapter 7 we can see an example of what women do to get men. I hope my mother doesn´t make me do this to marry a rich man.

Carmen dijo...

Teresa you do not understand Mrs. Bennet at all!!!! What could a woman with no money and limited education if she wanted her 5 daughters to live well in ttheir position? They had to marry well!!! How would they live without money? Their future was bleak indeed!!! Now one can work, then this was bnned for women and even for men, they also had to marry considerng their future and the money they would have.

marta dijo...

Magdalena a very interesting comment, very mature and very well written. You have a good brain. Yes Lidia and Kitty are immature and irresponsible, but it is not solely their fault, their parents don´t check him, they are running wild. There must be limits, because if there are no limits we can´t live in society and we can get into trouble.
Fourths where are you?

Roberto dijo...

¡ ¡ ¡ ¡ ¡QUANTUM OF SOLACE! ! ! ! !

- Next Tuesday, the 25th

- Yelmo Cines Ideal

- Time: 20 h

(Go to the Film Club)

marian dijo...

Hi!!
Pride and Prejudice is a classic of English literature, but as we spoke at our English class, some of the ideas shown in that book are still alive.
I think that the role played by current families is quite different, but there are some details that make us similar despite the difference in time. For example parents, specially mothers, are very interested in the well social and economical level of their daughter's husband. But not in a way of economic dependency or subsistence like then, but also in order to keep our own reaches.
I think that beauty and money are secondary, women look for stability, intelligence, sense of humour, maturity..because we can be economical independent and know that beauty and why not, relations don't long forever.

maría 5ºB dijo...

Hi Marian, as for beauty is concerned, I´m afraid I don´t agree with you. It should be as you say, but I don´t think it is the truth. Women are very worried about beauty and try to prolonged it as they can. Have you heard about the disco in Valencia where a cosmetic surgery (I don´t know the proper word) is going to be raffled?? But it is not the worst thing, but that the objective consists on paying a tribute to women!! Isn´t it incredible??
Here the link of the news is. Have a look: http://www.europapress.es/nacional/noticia-discoteca-valencia-sortea-operacion-estetica-fiesta-20081118193917.html

marta dijo...

Marian, don´t last forever. Very true, mothers are still interested but not maybe girls in the same way, now we are independent, we can survive without men, but what could a woman do at that time? Marriage was of paramount importance.
I agree with María, beauty is very important still today if not think of the surgery! María´s example is terrible! My God! In a disco! I think we are more worried than ever about beauty and now it is even more important. Not only beauty, mind, youth also!

Itziar dijo...

¡Hi everybody!
My name is Itziar. I'm fourth A. It's the first time I'm writing in this blog. Yes, Marta, it's a little bit late but "better late than never", don't you think so . I've been reading your comentaries about "Pride and Prejudice". I must say that I have enjoyed them and that I think that your English level is quite good! I learned English some years ago and I feel that I can't express myself as well as I would like. I hope I'll do much better if, as Marta said in class, I make an effort.
I agree with you, María and Marta, when you say that beauty is very important nowdays. A pretty girl will be more successful in everything always.

marian dijo...

Hi again!
Of course beauty is important still today. I mean, most of us are worried about our physical appearance and are always trying to eat properly and practise sports. It's not only for beauty but also for our own healthy. The problem is when we cross the thin line (or not so thin) between healthy and obsession by cosmetic surgery.
I agree with you both, this example is terrible and I think it's humiliating for women. Not all of us want to improve our appearance by this kind of surgery.

Jesús A1B dijo...

Hello! This is the first time I write about the novel. As I am supposed to write my first impression about the book, I will try to write sinceryly.

I have read eight chapters, and I must say that, at the moment, the story still hasn´t catched me, but maybe, it is too soon to feel this connection to the book. Another negative thing of the book is the old fashioned English Jane Austin used. It is sometime crazy to see some expressions and words that nowadays would not be accepted, specially when you are learning!

But as I am not so pesimistic, I think that te characters and the situation, show us how the society was like in England, very different from Spain, specifically in this period.

magdalena dijo...

Hi Roberto I´m Magdalena,
Are you interested in QUANTUM OF SOLACE I´ve heard it´s a very interesting film, in England I saw some little bits of it. Do you know if you have to watch all the other films before? Is it for children? Do you think at my age i can watch it???

Carmen dijo...

Jesús, it´s shocking and sad that you write this on a post. Jane Austen is a genius aand someone who millions of people have read and will continue to read for centuries!! Persevere with the reading and perhaps in some months you will learn to appreciate the great opportunity you have been given this year.

Roberto dijo...

Dear Magdalena,

I really appreciate your saying so, for Casino Royale being the film shot before Quantum of Solace and reviewed as a very good action film, I dare say the new one is going to be even better. I have just researched on The British Board of Film Classification (http://www.parentsbbfc.co.uk/) finding the film is considered as 12A category which it means anyone aged 12 or over can go and see the film unaccompanied. Children younger than 12 may see the film if they are accompanied by an adult (eg someone over the age of 18), who must watch the film with them. Therefore, I think your parents may allow you to watch it and join us on Monday. (I offer myself to look after you if your parents are unable to attend the meeting).

Welcome students joining the blog for the first time, you will enjoy it in every way.

There are two things almost always make your life easier: beauty and money.

Jesús, you will learn in time that everything both Marta and Carmen are teaching us is something you wont ever do everywhere else. Thus, I recommend you to change your mind and notice the treasure unclosed before you if you really want to learn the language and culture.

Itziar 4A dijo...

¡Good morning!
I think that you, Roberto and Carmen, are being so much hard with Jesús. Maybe he doesn't enjoy novels like "Pride and Prejudice". It doesn't mean that the novel is bad, at all, but not everybody likes the same type of histories. "Pride and Prejudice" is a very faumous and a great novel, we all agree, but "Don Quijote de la Mancha", for example, is a historic novel too and how many of you have read it? From my point of view, "Pride an Prejudice" is an enjoyable but a difficult lecture. Sometimes I have to read the same page twice because I have understand almost nothing. I hope it will become easier for me in some months.
¡Have a good weekend!

Roberto dijo...

Dear Itziar, it was only a piece of advice.

For sure, it will turn easier but you have to keep going and work hard.

I say all this because last year I was in the same situation as you are now.

maría 5ºB dijo...

Magdalena, you will be very welcome if you decide to come with us to the cinema ON TUESDAY (not on monday as Roberto has said), and if your parents allow you to do so. I have not watched any Bond´s prevous films either. I hope to watch it this weekend, at least, the previous one: "Casino Royal".

Classic novels are worhtwhile besides difficult to understand, but you must try. Remember you have Marta´s help as Roberto says, and it is a luck, indeed.

Maite, the librarian woman, said me that on sunday evening, the film "Pride and prejudice" will be on TVE 1.

Roberto dijo...

TUESDAY, TUESDAY.

Thank you María.

marta dijo...

From rainy Santander I join the chat, for a bit of solace and fun and I wasn´t disappointed! Some new comments and the 4ths timidly joining in!
My "secretary" says that the novel hasn´t yet caught him. Well, it often happens and it is nothing to worry about. You will hopefully learn to like it when you analise it a little more in depth. Of course, as Iciar says, sometimes you´ll have to read a page twice but that only will happen at the beginning provided you work with the vocabulary and do all the practice I have adviced you to do.
Don´t worry about what you say it is good to give your opinion and to share it with all of us.
Take Roberto´s advice he has really improved and having practiced a lot, he now can express himself so well, read literature and write fantastically as do many of the 5ths that join us in our little discussions here.
P&P shows us the customs of the English in the 19th century and that is a good way of learning about them, the English are very traditional and they haven´t changed that much, surprised though you might be!
The vocabulary is old-fashioned but not so much so as you think. The mayority of the words are still used and it is impossible to write well, if you don´t read literature. Jesús a modern book might have a vocabulary more difficult to follow than this, or maybe use a lot slang and what´s the good of that?
We want to speak good, correct English and that´s the English that you find in this novel. The everyday English you can pick up when you go to the country. Ok?
Please continue sending your posts and you will see how you improve.

cris dijo...

Hello,
I'm Cristina from advanced 1A (4º), this is my first time in this space of Pride and Prejudice, and I´m sorry because I didn't write before. The novel is enjoyable however your comments are so good and I've been missed a good oportunity to improve my english and learn more things about english culture, and now I can see another point of view about the book. Sometimes we think one thing and when we listen to other idea we get better perspective and more clear ideas.
My favourite character ir Lizzy, because she is the most inteligent of Mrs Bennet's daughter She expresses what she thinks not only what she should tell.
About Mrs Bennet, maybe she is silly, but we have to remember that She is always thinking in her daughter's future, and she focuses her effort in getting a good husband for them because in that moment it was the only way to survive with a high standar of living.
Now I'm going to read our next chapters and as soon as I can I'll write again here.
Sorry if I've made some mistakes, writting is the most difficult area for me, and I hope improve myself keeping in touch with this blog

marta dijo...

Cristina not a bad comment at all, I´m glad you realise that it is good to participate read what others have written and give your opinion.
"I have been missing" is what you should have said, we are going to revise the participles one day so remind me next week, please. "Think of" Think in is only used when we say: I think in English. Otherwise it is I think of John.
But you have written quite well.
Mrs. Bennet is silly but she managed to marry well and she wants her daughters to do the same, in that she is not so silly!
It is terrible but money is important you can do a lot of things with it for yourself and for other people. Our poet said it when he said money was a "powerful gentleman". Do you know the poem?
The novel also tells us many things about the English customs I like that too. It is nice to see how they lived quietly in the country and to see what their interests were and what worried them.

Mario dijo...
Este comentario ha sido eliminado por el autor.
Mario dijo...
Este comentario ha sido eliminado por el autor.
Mario dijo...

Mario 4º A

Hi everybody! Welcome, Cristina. We were looking forward to hearing from you! Keep on writing! You will improve your writing skills in a short time. Do not be ashamed of making mistakes; it is the only way to achieve a successful learning in writing.

Focusing on the comment made by Jesus, I guess he thinks that one of the less attractive Pride and Prejudice´s features is its plot. Regarding women´s underrated status in 19 century´s English society might seem to be an old fashioned topic but at present time women keep in the same frustrating position unfortunately.

The Gender Violence, for instance, is one of the worst blights against women worldwide. As long as it keeps spoiling human beings´ relationships, women will be prevented from reaching their right to equality.

The International day against "Gender Violence" is going to be held on november, the 25th.
Do not remain in the darkness if you are suffering. Do not be afraid. Step into the dawning of a new life, the one which only belongs to you. Bear this in mind.

I am sure Jane Austen would have been a very passionated fighter in defence of Gender Violence victims´ rights.

MAR. (fourth) dijo...

Good night!

Jesus you were very brave saying your opion in that way -after that you put the blog in flames-. I know it is not my business, but I would like to say that the second e mail from Marta to you contenins the sentence that most of us were waiting: “Don´t worry about what you say it is good to give your opinion and to share it with all of us”, really I liked very much to read it.

About P&P I think that the main actions of the novel are the interactions between opinions, ideas, and attitudes, which is nice because let us to talk about all of that points, BUT in my opinion there are little descriptions of the setting, it is a pity because I would like to read more about that in the novel.

I wonder if Mary is the character who will give us few delight moments, or at least less that her sister.

Fifth, please be patient with us, I apreciate very much indeed your help in this blog, you were here when we (fourth) were missing, but wait and see ... we will improve little by little. Maybe at the end of the course, Marta can make arrangements in order to enjoy an English class together, obviously for speaking about P&P and you –all of you- will be very surprised about us.

Mar dijo...

Sorry I made a typing mistake:

I wrote: or at least less that her sister

It should be: or at least less than her sisters.

marta dijo...

Mario what you´ve written is very well-written and very true. I´m sure that Austen would have simpathised with any battered woman as many men also would. The novel reflects the higher classes where there was also that going on, but Austen only shows us the nice part: the balls, the outings, the family meetings. She is however worried about the future of women who have no money and who have to survive off relatives.
Mar: "Because it enables us to talk", is better than "it lets us talk", careful with the use of the "infinitive without to" after make, let, etc.
You have sent a very proper invitation to the 5ths! We must do it and show them that YES WE CAN!
You are good and we can improve specially if you practce as much as the 5ths have done, they were a wonderful 4th, you can read the essays they wrote in the Web, under Concurso, and you can also take a look at what they are writing now. And we are going to be just as good or even better.

MAR. (fourth) dijo...

Marta: Thank you very much indeed for your comments and your help.
You know, I put the infinitive with "to"; anyway, enjoy the rainy Santander.
I´m on my way to NYC and I´ll miss all of you for one week.

Roberto dijo...

Dear Mar, than you for the complement.

Keep working and you will improve for sure. Don't be afraid of making mistakes, the most important thing being this opportunity we have been given to learn.

Anyway, this is not a matter of being the best but of doing your best.

Roberto dijo...

I meant "compliment", sorry.

magdalena dijo...

Hello Roberto,
Tank you very much for you offering to take care of me, I would have been very happy going with you, but I´ve already seen the film.
I think it´s one of the best films I´ve ever seen, it has lots of action and mistery, I´ve put a comment in the film club if you want to read it. I really, really recommened you to go and see the film.
In some parts of the film you jump because of the fright, though it´s very intriging.

Roberto dijo...

Dear Magdalena,

You're welcome. I am glad you enjoyed the film. I have already seen it in Spanish, and tomorrow I'm doing it in English. I also liked it very much even though I think Casino Royale is better. I'm going to read your comment in the film club. Thank for post it.

Patricia dijo...

Hello everybody! I´m Patricia, from advance 1B and this is the first time I write here.
Well, about Pride and Prejudice, I´ve seen the film so I know the plot. However I´ve found really interesting the reading because I´ve discovered many situations that in the film don´t appear.
In addition to this, I think is really complicated to understand the character feelings because they play a way of life further back in time.
Now I´m reading chapter 11 and I hope to enjoy reading it.

Raquel de Luis dijo...

Hi!
Watching TV in english is a good way to practise listening, speaking and to learn new vocabulary. So I want to recomend you a soap opera, "How I met your mother". It's really fun, and there are many slang expressions you're going to discover. The first six chapters are available in the web, to watch it online. I give you the link, and I hope you enjoy it.
http://televisionforme.blogspot.com/2008/02/how-i-met-your-motherseason-1_21.html

I am sure you can find the other chapters in new web pages, in case you like it.

Raquel de Luis dijo...

I have forgotten to tell you, that the plot is about a young man who is in the research of the woman of his life. On the other hand, there's a girl who hates all kind of engagements. It is the opposite of Pride and Prejudice. The world changes...

cris 4ºA dijo...

4ºA

Hello everyone!
Thanks a lot Marta's corrections and the others for your welcomes.

I've read some comments about the interest or not in P&P, well, Each of us like different kind of readings and when we choose our books we ussualy read the same topics and now we have the possibility of reading a masterpiece but not only we are going to read it, we'll be able to understand it because we have a master in P&P(Marta, of course). And we'll also learn english culture that is very important to see the meaning of the english's behaviour. Then, Let's enjoy the novel, and in our spare time we can see soup operas more fashion as Raquel recomended us or read another books.

Mario and Mar noticed me about the film P&P. It was going to be on Sunday night in TV1, and I had to choose other chanel, but it was sod's law!, my parents started to see it and I had to run away from my livingroom. Thanks my friends I kept myself far from discovering the end of the novel. I hope none of you saw the film.

About the last chapter we have read I have to tell what silly behaviour Mrs Bennet had. She spoke so much about Jane's beauty and the worst thing was the way how she did, she critisiced Lady Lucas. In my opinion she could stand out her daughter's apearance but without Lady Lucas' humiliation. Here we have another similarity with nowadays; How many mothers are speaking constantly about their children? and, obviusly Their children are always better than the others.

MAR (fourth) dijo...

Cris: following your comments I think that sometimes Elizabeth is thoroughly embarrassed by her mother's conduct in conversations, do you agree?

I would like to say something about a new character, now we have already read about Miss Bingley, I think that she feels threatened by Elizabeth and knows she cannot compete with Elizabeth on the basis of her virtues or talents.

I didn't watch the film last Sunday night, I'm going to enjoy the plot chapter by chapter, and thanks to this blog the analysis will be diferent.

Anónimo dijo...

This is the fisrt time I´m writting in the blog, so I am going to sumarize what I have read until now.
The chapter one to eleven, Jane Austin (1775-1817), shows us the way of living at the village of Longbourn, where the arrival at Netherfield of a new single man with his family and a friend, Mr Darcy, causes a big revolution.
During a ball, Mr Bingley falls in love with the eldest daugther of Mr Bennet, Jane. Meanwhile Mr Darcy says that the second daugther, Elizabeth, is only tolerable.
Several days after, Jane receives an invitation to go to Mr Bingley house. She decides to go there by walking in spite of the bad weather. As a result of that she becomes ill. She sends a letter to Elizabeth, telling her what has happended. Elizabeth decides to pay a visit to her. During the illness of Jane, Elizabeth and Darcy knew each other.
After this time, the two sisters come back to Longbour.

The written is easy to understand because the big majority of the words are from modern English.


LUIS

Vicente 4A dijo...

Mrs. Bennet is not a good mother, of course she is looking the best she can for her daughters but in her own way.
She is obsessed about belonging to the hight society. Money is not important for her or else she could look for a husband for her daughter among the rich men in the country. The merchants were very powerful at that time, but they didn't belong to Aristocracy.

Mario dijo...
Este comentario ha sido eliminado por el autor.
Mario dijo...

Mario 4 A

Cris, at present time women (not only in the UK but worldwide) are not in the same depending situation as they were in the past; they can do it properly on their own.

Mrs Bennet had an only chance if she wanted her family to have a secured and respectful social position in future.

As a result, I dont think that praising her own daughters in order to get a profitable marriage can be interpreted as an exposing attitude at all.

Moreover, as Vicente has remarked, she did it on her own cheerful way, that one she was educated in. She could not have done it differently.

Marta Helena dijo...

Hi kids:
I am Marta Helena from 4th A1B, we have been talking about something pretty interesting today. We can get from the reading, that mister Darcy look down on peole from the countryside, some students excuse him saying he is such a shy man, I think it is not a valid excuse. Anyway the matter is that some people in class have felt rejected by others from the capital just because they come from the countryside. What do you think? I am from Madrid and I have never been nasty to anyone because of their place of origin. Am I the only one? Hopefully not.
Marta I am sorry if you have ever felt left aside becouse of being from Santander. We are not like that.

Rebeca 4th A1B dijo...

Hello to everyone.
I`m Rebeca and I study at the same class of Marta Helena.It`s true that we usually talk about many interesting things at class, most of them which could seem to be far of the subjets that belongs to the activities that our teacher asks us to make, but that are very near to them. They also are related to nowadays` life, as the one that M.H. has said; I mean, the behaviour that is supossed to have the people who live at a capital city with regard to the other ones who have came from other places. I agree with M.H. that, altough it happenned in the past, nowadays, people who have born in Madrid welcome everyone as one else.

marta dijo...

Fantastic that there are so many comments! At last we are moving on. I´ve just come back from having a drink so I´m not in the best condition to answer and read all your comments. Don´t send your mind flying, I´m fine but desperate to go to bed!
Mar have a nice trip and we´ll miss you but NY is not a bad place.
Patricia I´m glad you find the novel is better it is!!!!!!!!!!! It is great fun to analise the characters and think of a man like Mr. Darcy would you fall in love with such a man?
Patricia, thank you very much for your link and counsel, I´ll try to have a look but I´m terrible with the computer. It is true I can barely do this. You have to tell us your ideas about the novel or do you think that we have changed so much and we are not so interested in the boys?? It is fantastic to have you photo we know who you are, can the rest of you do it?? Of course I can´t miracles in my case don´t exist, I´m sorry to tell you!
Cris, thank you, I know very little but I hope I can enlight you a little in the ways of the English, after all they educated me and a little I know about them due to that and also to having read some of their fantastic literature.
You are absolutely right Mrs. Bennet was silly and a bitch talking about her friend Mrs. Lucas and her daughter Charlotte, who are very kind and they don´t deserve her comments, specially as they are friends. Your link to the mothers today is very clever and true, you are absolutely right, mothers today are constantly saying how fantastic their daughters or even sons are and one wonders when they know them. So it´s true things have not changed that much!!! Many mothers are still today VERY SILLY. We must relate Mrs. Bennet to today´s mothers we haven´t done it.
Darlings I´m off to bed tomorrow I´ll come back to continue our chat
Night, night, sleep tight! God bless!

Marta Helena dijo...

Thanks Rebeca, I feel supported by you. And actually I have been thinking, how can be someone from Madrid disagreeable to people from other place when Madrid has an 90% of people who are not from here or whose parents os relatives are not either? After the drift from the land almost none is an authentic person from Madrid, wich give us more variety and culture.

Roberto dijo...

Not only do I consider the novel to be full of so different characters very well developed, but also to have a large amount of situations showing quite interesting feelings, attitudes, envies, wishes, disappointments which human beings usually embrace these days even though social environment has changed. It is this wide showcase of characters that makes you identify with any of them. Besides, funny elements let the story flow more easily, preventing the reader should fall into boredom. It is also a chance to find out what women’s beliefs were as far as men’s affairs is concerned. Do they keep still thinking similarly nowadays?

Elizabeth Bennet is sometimes a little bit haughty like Mr. Darcy, isn’t she? You can also perceive that she is proud and willingly to judge before hand.

Being cynical and aware of Mr. Darcy’s position as a very agreeable engagement, Miss Bingley does what she is entitled to do: trying to make him be interested on her and getting rid of any possible hindrance. What else would do you do, women, to get such a husband? On the other hand, don’t forget Bennet’s are considered to be in a lower social status.

I think Mr. Darcy looks down on people because of his pride and his being socially unable to behave so affable as Mr. Bingley does. Not everybody is talented to be charming before people they meet.

marta dijo...

How can s. from M. be disagreable? Marta the subject in the middle, ok?
Rebeca, Marta´s class, you have to use the Saxon Genitive with people.
I didn´t mean that the people were nasty because I came from the provinces or the country as you may say, I mean that there is a kind of feeling pervading in the atmosphere that tells you that they feel superior to you just because they live in the capital. It also happened years ago that those provinces that were on the coast did have a standoffish attitude towards those people who came from places where there was no sea and consequently it gave a sort of status to live in a province where you could see the sea. So we have to make allowances for Mr. Darcy´s behaviour when he looks down on the country society, of course it must be a shock compared to the refinement of London and what he was used to. And of course Mrs. Bennet must horrify him, she horrifies her daughters, let alone Mr. Darcy.
Please think of the two sentences they say of each other:
"Your defect is a propensity to hate everybody" "And yours is willfuly to misunderstand them"
Why are they important, think, literature should make you think it is good to be able to judge and to learn to analise characters because people are living characters anyway.

marta dijo...

Roberto I´ve just seen your comment but I don´t have time to read it, I´ll read it tonight I´m all curiosity!

Raquel de Luis dijo...

I am sure that people who is taking english courses is not disagreeable to people from other place. If you are interested in foreign languages, you must be interested in other cultures too, even the countryside.
Nevertheless, there are many people who think they are the true "madrileños" (those who were borned in Madrid), and even if you live in Madrid 5 or 6 years ago you can't have a madrilian identity as they have.
This is very unpleasant, but fortunately not everybody is so narrow-minded. This kind of people usually don't go out from their neighbourhood, and I can assure than I know Madrid better! so why can't I belong to the capital?

As far as my photo is concerned, I have a profil in blogger, and that's because my photo is showed here. (I don't make anything)

cris 4ºA dijo...

I've read some comments about if you are from Madrid or from the countryside, and sorry Raquel L. but Idisagree with you I'm from Madrid and here everyone is wellcome, on the contrary when I go my parents' small town I feel people look at my in a different way (she is from the capital!!!!)and why do they give bad opinion about me only because I'm madrileña. I'm not consider myself madrileña I'm from the world and sometimes the prejudices are more visible in villages than in cities

angela dijo...

Hello peers!this is the first I am writing in the blog because I can't have a computer everyday, but I promise you I'll try to do it more often.About the book, I'm liking it a lot but I am finding it a bit difficult, not so the vocabulary but some sturctures used, and in many cases I have to go through it again, so it's taking me more time than usual.It's ten years since I studied english for last time, and I am having more problems than I thought at first but I can assure I am trying.
I think Mrs Bennet is a bit stupid because of talking badly about Charlotte, but I believe she hasn't noticed the damage her words can do, because she really is silly, you know what I mean?
Not only do I think that people in Madrid doesn't treat the same way
people of other cities, though I was born in Madrid and hopefully I haven't done this to anyone, because I wouldn't like others to do it to me, but there are many other people that think they are better than you just for having studied a degree or simply because they a better than everyone and they look at you as if you were somethig strange, when they look!I can see this everyday in my work and I can say it is the same feeling for both things.
I hope Marta can read this because she insisted so much yesterday in class...
ANGELA A1B

Jesús A1B dijo...

Hello again!

I was fearful of reading all your comments about my last writting, because Marta had warned me yesterday to be prepared to read some attacks (actually I have been thinking of my defence all this morning). I am very glad to see that you are just hoping me to change my mind about the novel, and so do I!

The last class was a little bit embarrassing for me because after being labelled of disliking the book, it was my turn to make a summary for the class of chapters 9 ,10 and 11.

I agree with some of you who say that it is difficult to understand some paragraphs of the novel. Sometimes the opinions are expressed in a such formal_polite_sarcastic_intelligent way that after reading it four times, I don´t have a clue of what they finally mean (for sure it makes me feel very stupid). Apart from that there are some expressions that usually get me into a mess (like "but I know not how", "I have not objection", "handsomer" or "stupider").

However I must say that I´m learnig a lot, and my English has never been better (It doesn't have any merit: it´s still bad!)


Thank you (pronounced with the throat) for all your comments.
Bye!

Roberto dijo...

Jesus, I beg your pardon if either you or any of your class mates felt uneasy when I posted my comment. I did not do it on purpose. All of us have the right to give opinions openly and it is with good intention that I wrote such things. I hope you may understand my point of view when the end of the course arrives.

Thus, keep writing and take your time, for you will think it easier in time.

magdalena dijo...

Roberto, thank you very much for the film you´ve given me, I think I´m goign to love it.Is it a good film? I read what it is like at the back and seems very interesting. I thank you a lot for giving it to me.

Eva dijo...

Hello to everybody!

I´m Eva from A1B, and it is also the first time I write about the novel.
I have to say that I have found the first chapters quite difficult, as other people mentioned I had to read
some paragrahs twice o three times to get the real meaning and to look many words up in the diccionary, but
little by little it is becoming easier to me and also more interesting.
I find the three last chapters (9,10,11) more attractive than the previous ones because as we discussed in our tuesday´s class they define features of the main characters personalities. From my point of view Mr. Darcy is starting to realise that perhaps Elizabeth attracts him more than he would like to.

Montse dijo...

Hi,I'm from fourth and it is my first day with you because I have no the internet at home, anyway I'll try to join you as often as I can.
Fristly I want to say that in a novel or play it is a must to have opposite characters and maybe thats why Mrs Bennet it is so narrow-minded. If we analice them they are all very different.

I have to say that usually every day when I began my reading I find it difficult but after a while I get more involved and have fun with them.

To finish I want to thank you because I am already learning new vocabulary from you.
See you, guys

Carolina 4ºb dijo...

Hello,
It´s the first time I write here; I have needed more than the fourteen minutes that Marta said last Tuesday, but it´s a great chance to learn, so thanks for your encouragement.
I´ve read your comments about Mrs. Bennet, and I`m not sure that she is so silly, probably her manners aren`t right, but she is worried about her daughters´ future and is using all her skills to find them a husband.
If Mr. Darcy is proud or not.., in my opinion, he is a little, but I think that he doesn´t feel comfortable when he is with unknown people.
Regarding the two sentences which Marta was refering, I`m not sure, but I think Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth are meting in depth, while she seems upset confirming her prejudices against him, he seems delighted with her..
Thank you

marta dijo...

Roberto I agree with you Eliza is sometimes too sure of herself and haughty.
Raquel where are you from? I think the people of Madrid in general don´t mean it badly but they are standoffish sometimes.
Cris is right that in the provinces they look at you as you were an alien, that is an inferiority complex, I believe, because they don´t live in the capital, that is why in the novel they immediately condemn Mr. Darcy.
Angela thank you for your comment you have written it very well persevere with the novel you will not regret it. People are!!!!!!!
My secretary has sense of humour, I grasped it on the very first lesson, though you are serious I can see through you, Jesús you will learn and you will like the novel, you yoursel, remind me a bit of Mr. Darcy, so there that is quite something to give you a bit of encouragement for the future. You will understand the novel well by January if you work and you will remember it to your dying day.
Roberto, Jesús has a sense of humour and he is one of us!
Eva persevere you see how you improve literature is what makes your English better believe me.
Montse I´m glad you are starting to like it at the end of the year the best thing for you I promise will be the novel. I agree the characters are very interesting.
I´m very happy to see all your comments that are in general so well-written, babies YES WE CAN

cris 4ºA dijo...

I'd like to give my opinion about Mr Darcy. I start to think that he isn't proud, maybe he doesn't like balls but he goes because of his friend. He doesn't like people who tell him how much handsome or intelligent he is only because is he has money(as Miss Bingley does) either. He is begining to have butterflies in his stomach when he sees Lizzy just she behaves naturaly and rude if it is neccesary. He has realized Lizzy isn't looking for a rich husband, she goes to the assemblements because her mother pushes her. she went to Mr Bingley' house to take care her lovely sister,... and the most important she is very different from her family.

Teresa 4 A dijo...

Hello again!

I'm sorry that I've been off line and so I haven't had the opportunity to write for a long time.

First of all, Carmen, I'd like to apologize for comming into the blog and right writing what I'm thinking at that very moment. Once I've read what I wrote, I think it could be quite confusing. That was about Mrs. Bennet. Even though I understand she does her best as to bring up her daughters, and that their future to earn a living is to marry well, I do still think she is a silly woman who exposes everyone as she talks.

Furthermore, Marta, it's not only remarkable how respectul the daughters are to her, but the way they try to focus on a different topic than the one she is talking about so that she stops saying nosenses. Anyway and above all else, they truly thank Mrs. Bennet's efforts to help them.
I have already had a discussion with some friends regarding talking badly about one's family members and we all agreed that we always show respect to them in public and we would only criticize them when talking to a close friend. Moreover, no matter what we would tell our friend about our relative, he'd better not say a single word.

With regard to the sentences of Elisabeth and Mr. Darcy, first of all, I think they do honor the title of our book and, trying to guess another meaning, I agree with Carolina largely but I feel both of them seem to get more attracted to each other as they meet.

marta dijo...

Cris the most important.. you need "thing" there must be a noun important is an adj.
A very clever analysis of Mr. Darcy´s personality, yes you are right he might not be what he seems, that is often the case. Maybe Eliza was too rash in forming a negative opinion: "your defect is a propensity to hate everybody".
Teresa yes it is true that we tend not to criticise our family so much, but I think we do it much more than we used to. We are living in the communication era we must say how we feel and who has hurt us, I think it is the Yankees who started, and we are copying fast. Our parents were like you say but I wonder if we are so.
Mrs. Bennet is silly and you are right the elder daughters try to check her but the youngest are as silly, specially Kitty, and they are delighted with their mother´s nonsense.

Arantza 4B dijo...

Hello!

This is my second time in the blog and i hope i will do it more frecuently.

I agree with those who say that at first the novel is a bit difficult because of the vocabulary, but in my opinion it isn´t dificult to understand the general context.

Now i´m reading chapter 13 and it´s so interesting, a new character has been introduced, Mr Collins.The novel is more intereresting each day

marta dijo...

Arancha I´m glad you like it, and that you find it more and more interesting. You will get used to the vocabulary and you must learn it too! Please use the dictionaries on the department´s web they are in MORE LINKS.
Mr. Collins is a very funny and exasperating character, he is one of the most famous religious men in literature. The figure of the vicar is quite normal in English literature, they are usually pompous fastidious puritanical and priggish. We have a lot to talk about in the future lessons...

Roberto dijo...

I am looking forward to posting comments related to Mr. Collins.

He is pathetically marvellous!!

cris 4ºA dijo...

I haven't been able to read chapter 13rd yet, because of time, but I' really enthusiastic with the idea of knowing a new charapter who is going to give us enjoyable moments. Just I have read it I'll post my opinion about Mr. Collins.
Thanks Roberto, you didn't unveil more details, so I'll be able to discover them myself. Then I hope to read your comment, as always, marvellous

Raquel de Luis dijo...

I would like to talk about the conexion between Eliza a Mr. Darcy. I think they have very closed characters. I mean, they both are very intelligent and mistrust everybody. For exemple, Mr. Darcy rejects to dance with girls he doesn’t met at balls because he feels himself uncomfortable (I don’t think it’s a question of proud). As far as Eliza is concerned, she is not self-confidence. When Mr. Darcy proposes something to her, she is impolite with him just because she considers improbable that Mr. Darcy is being pleasant with her. She doesn’t realise that she influences everybody in Netherfield. Habits in the house are changing because of her stay in the house. For intance, reading wasn’t so cool as playing cards when she arrived, and now many people read instead of playing poquet.

Today in the class, we have been talking about how difficult is to apologize. We have given some exemples about the most difficult situations to say ‘I’m sorry’. Actually, I think we have forgotten one which is maybe the most important. In the proffessional scene, we will never hear from our boss: ‘Oh, I am sorry, I made a mistake’

Marta, today you have told me that my structures are not good. Please, could you give me un exemple? It’s the only way to improve my writing... thank you!

And finally, about the discussion madrileños against provicianos, I am sorry if some of you took it personally.

Raquel de Luis dijo...

*conection

marta dijo...

Roberto a very precise definition of Mr.Collins, who was not a sensible man, so from the beginning we know what to expect but that in no way diminishes his charm, though I can´t think of a more exasperating character.
Please don´t stop posting you give a lot of ideas charm and encouragement to our section!
Cris you won´t be disappointed in Mr.Collins.
What about my questions about the other two? Why are those questions worthy of notice?

Itziar fourth A dijo...

Hi!
I've read Carmen's letter to her last year students, as Martha said on wednesday we should do, and I'm completely amazed! It's a real love letter! Have you read it? If not, you have to. She describes (it's a very funny description, I must say)her impressions when she met her students for the first time. It was terrible! But her opinion about them changed during the year and became a "love story". I've also read student's comments. They are very grateful and all of them admit that they learnt a lot with Carmen. Maybe they were surprised about her way of being and teaching (I don't know Carmen, so I can say nothing about her)at the begining but they changed their mind, as Carmen did. It's fantastic, a real love letter, believe me. You have to read it!

marta dijo...

Raquel that´s true Mr. Darcy was not trivial and he didn´t want to trivialise with girls he didn´t know

marta dijo...

Raquel, "how difficult it is to apologise", you mustn´t forget the subject,"the most difficult situations in which to say sorry" these are examples, but I didn´t say exactly that, this comment is better written than the other two, probably because you are gaining confidence. The more you write the better you´ll get and I believe you will because I see you everyday and you participate in class and here.
I´m very glad Itziar liked the letter, it is very good isn´t it? If you read literature you can write like that otherwise it is impossible. Carmen is very good and not everybody can reach that standard but you will get very good if you prersevere and practice.

marta dijo...

INSTRUCTIONS for the week-end:
1. Please read Carmen´s letter to her 4th year students.

2. I want to know your ideas about Mr. Collins´ character. What is Mr. Bennet or Mr. Darcy going to think of him?
What is Austen telling us about clergymen?

marta dijo...

The letter is in Carmen Peredo, the section at the top. The daffodils is a poem by William Wordsworth,the great Romantic poet, that they read in class. You can find it in poetry, or in last years activities. Read it it is very nice, if you want we can read it in class one day.

Vicente 4A dijo...

In my opinion, Mr. Collins is as interesting as Mr. Darcy, although Collins looks like more evil.

So I think we will have good moments reading about these two characters.

The more I read Pride and Prejudices I find it more similar to Falcon Crest or Dallas, don't you think?
A story with a beautiful girl, an interesting man, money (of course!), an ambitious mother, and now suddenly there's also a priest involved...!

marta dijo...

Well Vicente you have a point, it is a story with luxury love money interests and those ingredients catch you, I wonder if Jesús finds it so.
Mr. Collins is a pest isn´t he? But he is quite funny I wonder how he´ll get on with Mrs. Bennet.. He is sigle and the Mr. Bennet´s heir that makes him important for some people in the novel, don´t you think??
Where are the others´comments???

Montse dijo...

Hi,Vicente it is quite funny what you have said. I wouldn't think about that but It is a way to bring it closer to us.

marta dijo...

I see his point, it is not exactly a saga but we are getting involved in the story of a family, for me the idea that is quite interesting is are they going to achieve their goals? What do we do to achieve them?But the novel is telling us about the customs of that particular group in that particular century and I think it is very well portraid, don´t we get a good picture?

cris 4ºA dijo...

Marta, I reckon that you asked to think of the two sentences Lizzy and Mr Darcy said of each other:
"Your defect is a propensity to hate everybody" "And yours is willfuly to misunderstand them".(A long time ago, but I'd like to be clear in them)
I'm not sure, but in my opinion Darcy was trying to apologize with Lizzy and to show her that everybody has deffects, and he could be wrong in a time. Resenful Elizabeth took her chance to put down him. And the most important point came up when Darcy told her She was misunderstanding him, he doesn't hate her He likes her, obviusly he couldn't say that literaly. maybe I'm wrong but He did a big effort to express his desire of being closer Lizzy.

Raquel, you have given a good example of saying sorry. Sometimes we think that it is useless because the others don't realize our effort. Consecuently I'd like to say you thanks. Madrid is a very open, global and multi-ethnic city but in everywhere there are exceptions...Now you know your "EOI" madrileños classmates who say wellcome to Madrid.

Mario dijo...

Mario 4-A


Mr. Collins' character is apparently introduced by the writer as a sensible and sympathetic one but in my view these features hide some of his real purposes. I believe he is a clergyman who is more concerned with achieving a wealthy status in life than paying tribute to his own moral and religious convictions.

We will have to wait until upcoming chapters and see!

I have enjoyed Vicente`s remark about two of the most famous soap opera´s of the Eighties. I loved Falcon Crest, specially Angela Channing´s character, an one and only master in evilness.

Each time we read a new chapter the story becomes more interesting. I have a feeling about Mr Collins´ role: I am sure he will play a main one.

marta dijo...

Cris to put him down, the pron. in the middle. We say everywhere, not in everywhere.
I don´t think Darcy was trying to get closer to Lizzy, I think he was analising her and he was right, she has a tendency to classify people as this or that maybe too rashly. Which is what she was doing with him, a propensity to hate everybody, she says and really she knows very little about what he is like, I mean she has been with him only three or four times and she is absolutely sure that she has grasped his character.

marta dijo...

Maybe you are right, Mario, but Austen does not describe him as sensible, she says the contrary: Mr. Collins was not a sensible man and the deficiency of nature...
Mr. Collins is Mr. Bennet´s heir and so he will have some money, but he is not intelligent enough to get more money than he has. I think he reveres rank and money but I don´t think he wants to make money, he is stupid and a good for nothing, as a religious person he couldn´t be worse, he lacks everything that a religious person should have, he is however funny as a character.

Mario dijo...

I agree with you, Marta, but I think Mr. Collins pretends to be sensible in his behaviour even though he fails in his attempt.

Your quote is very illustrative but I am afraid I had not read it because it is shown at the beginning of the 15th chapter and we were supposed to read until the 14th one!

marta dijo...

Sorry, you are absolutely right, I skipped a little and you shouldn´t.
Mr. Collins thinks he is very good charitable and perfect, in that he shows,in my opinion, his stupidity too. For example Mr.Darcy owns his faults because everybody has them but Mr. Collins is false in everything even in trivial things he is, let alone in important ones.

Vicente 4A dijo...

I don’t trust Mr. Collings, Yes, he is as proud as Mr. Darcy, but in different ways. While Darcy believes in the intelligence, he wants to break the rules in the high society. He is proud of his style of life but he criticizes it as well, and he laughs at the Bourgeois that only tend to imitate the aristocracy with all their defects. Otherwise Mr. Collings is proud of his style of life, but he believes he is better than the others.

Oh, yes, Mario, I agree with you about Angela Channing, but in Prides and Prejuices, could Mrs. Bennet be the Angela Chaning of this story? Both are mothers who look for the best for their families, whatever they have to do, for example by sending Jane to Netherfield by horse on a rainy day.

Roberto dijo...

At length I may discuss about Mr. Collins!

I want to congratulate you for all your comments, to begin with. You are really catching up on the blog. Keep going and you will never regret for doing it so, since you will improve in every way, beyond a doubt. However, let’s be clear: It is both Marta and Carmen’s teaching that give us the means (you only have to do what they want you to do) so that WE may reach a proper knowledge of the language. They are incomparable. This is not flattering but the plain truth!

Having no time, this afternoon I am posting comments related to Mr Collin’s character and answer yours. I am in a hurry!!

By the way, good job Marta for encouraging students to make good use of this marvellous tool.

angela dijo...

Hello!! well, I think we can't trust Mr. Collins. He out of the blue has appeared, and saying he wants to make them amends, but I really think he is going to revolutinize both Longbourn and Netherfield.
Wait a moment,I was reading what other students have posted but I can't find my comment!!!!!!haven't you read what I wrote about Carmen's letter!!! Marta I promise I wrote some lines on saturday!!actually I have a copy of it and I will take it to class next thursday!!I don't think Mr Bennet trusts him either but he is going to wait to say anything until Mr Collins does his next movement.He believes that as he is a clergyman he isn't going to have any problems to do what he wants, but he is going to be monitored by Mr Bennet and Mr Darcy. Mr Darcy is going to turn a bit jealous about Mr Collins because he is going to be near Lizzy and will put him nervous because he doesn't know his intentions
ANGELA A1B

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Wilkie Collins

Wilkie Collins