16 de octubre de 2010

JANE EYRE

During the year 2010-2011 the A1s are going to read this novel written by Charlotte Brontë. We hope you'll enjoy it, please post your comments on the space provided.

436 comentarios:

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Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Good morning:

I am a bit thrilled about the book that we are going to read this year. I didn´t like the books that we read the other years (except the Oscar Wilde´s plays, which were a little better). I think that this one is going to be better, and we are going to enjoy it more. I always wanted to read something by Bronte Sisters, but for one thing or other, I never did it. Now I have the opportunity.

A former student dijo...

Hello Rosa and hello everyone,

This was my first proper novel in English. I read it with Carmen and I can only say that I am in love with Jane Eyre. I won't ever forget this book.

There was no possibility of talking a walk that day... As you can see, I still remember the beginning and this happened more than three years ago. You will have such a good time reading it! Despite being considered as a gothic novel, you will laugh, you will cry, you will suffer, you will have fun, you will be thrilled... but most of all, you will sympathize with Jane for I believe one, sooner or later, identifies oneself with both her condition and feelings.

:-)

Irene A1C dijo...

Hello everybody!

I'm begining to read Jane Eyre and I admit that it's very difficult to me, not only is the vocabulary unknown for me, but the style is also complicated. I'm going to do an effort and I hope I finally enjoy the book. For the moment, it's quite expectant. I'm curious to know what is going to happen to the main character, Jane. I feel sorry for her, she is really unfortunate and the way the family treats her is very bad for her self-esteem and I think that could have a lot of consequences in her futur life.

Violeta A1C dijo...

Hello everyone!
I've just finished the book and I liked it a lot.I would re-read it with plasure.

I agree with you Irene the vocabulary is a little bit difficult at the beginning but after a few chapters you don't have to use the dictionary as much as you did at the beginning.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Hi everyone:

I think that they way in which Jane is mistreated is terrible. I felt a bit like her, because when I was a little girl, I didn't have friends, and I didn't get on well with my teachers nor my schoolmates. Of course, I was not beaten often, and I was not an orphan, but all the people look upon me as if I were a strange animal. I think I was a bit like Jane, because I had, like her, a lot of imagination, and like her, I used it to run away and to evade of everything. By other hand, I think that the style and the atmosphere are very well done in the book.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Hi everyone:

I think that they way in which Jane is mistreated is terrible. I felt a bit like her, because when I was a little girl, I didn't have friends, and I didn't get on well with my teachers nor my schoolmates. Of course, I was not beaten often, and I was not an orphan, but all the people look upon me as if I were a strange animal. I think I was a bit like Jane, because I had, like her, a lot of imagination, and like her, I used it to run away and to evade of everything. By other hand, I think that the style and the atmosphere are very well done in the book.

Anónimo dijo...

I'm Amparo

I agree with you,to read Jane Eyre will be a pleasure.I ,like you,have interested about life and works of Bronte sisters since a long time and now it's our opportunity to know them. When I discovered that they were able, in that desert place to write such pretty stories.I enjoy myself.I felt a great joy in my soul and I think of ,writing in that sombre life should be a light into their souls and Jane Eyre of Charlote will be a pleasure for us

Mar A1C dijo...

Hello
I read 'Jane Eyre' many years ago, when I was at the High School. Of course, I read it in spanish so now it is a good oportunity to reread the novel again and in its original language.
I´ve just read the first chapter and I´m agree with my mates. We are not used to read classical books and sometimes the beginning is difficult. But I´m sure that the novel is worth reading.
Bye!

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

All of you are rigth.
I think that we have good writters in Spanish language, both Spanish, both South American, but, usually, we don´t care very much about other litteratures. Specially, we don't know very well the English and American authors, and we don't know anything about a classical English genre, the horror litterature, which I like very much.

marta dijo...

Rosa and former student, I am so glad you have posted this! Specially am I happy about the FM says of the novel, it is very encouraging for the rest.
Irene difficult FOR me, I am quite expectant.
Violeta you will enjoy the novel more this second time, seeing new things, thanks for encouraging the others, they need a bit of that, I fear!!!

marta dijo...

Rosa, all the people lookeD..,on the other hand... Very interesting about your personal life, it is good to show identification, thet is why the novel is good the characters are alive, I think, don't you?
Amparo, and for a long time..,and I think that writing in that sombre..,
Mar, I agree..,yes you will like it in English and it will get easier.

I am very pleased with all your comments please continue. Just a thought for these days.

Which part of chapter 1 do you particularly like? I like the beginning and the way the story is introduced so successfully in two pages, she creates an atmosphere.

Anónimo dijo...

Mª Jesús AI-E

Godness me! How many nouns and adjetives unknown for me. Although I had to use the dictionary a lot, I enjoyed very much the reading of the tow firts chapters and the novel seems to me very promising.

The begining is very nice and also I liked very much the John Reed's description in the last paragraph on page 11 and the firts one on page 12 where the writer let us know how Ane feels in his presence.

And one question: How is Jack?.

Anónimo dijo...

Mª Jesús AI-E
Sorry about the question: Who is Jack? type problem, I think.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Hello


I think that another interesting fact about the novel, is that the writter is a woman. We don´t have many woman writters in the Spanish and Latin American Litterature. We have, of course Teresa de Jesús, María de Zayas, Fernán Caballero, Víctor Catalá(these last ones were both women, Rosalía de Castro, Emilia Pardo, Gertrudis Gómez, Carolina Coronado, Gabriela Mistral... but it seems they are not important as men wriiters. In English Litterature, we have many woman: Bronte Sister, Virgina Woolf, Harriet Beecher Stowe, Mary Shelley, Emily Dickinson, Jane Austen... Perhaps, the book would't be the same if the writter was a man.

Mariana dijo...

Hello everyone!

This is the first time that I read ‘Jane Eyre’ and I agree with you about the difficulty of the vocabulary and some expressions. However, I´m surprised because I´m really enjoying with the novel. I think it’s the kind of book that you can read several times in your life. I especially liked the moment that Jane compared her cousin´s John with a Roman emperors (on page 13). I think it’s little difficult for a child make that parallelism.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Hi, Mariana, and everyone.

Well, for a children of those days, who hadn´t seen "Quo Vadis" or "Ben Hur", of course is a little difficult. Not for a kid of todays, when I was as old as Jane I knew all the adventures of all those Roman guys. Notice the beatifull
-and sad- song in Chapter Three.

Anónimo dijo...

Carlos

Hello:

Well, first of all I included myself between the ones that have many difficulties in reading this kind of books, I have to use the dictionary continuously and not always find the sense of a sentence.

Writers are known by their books where some of their lifes is reflected.

At the beginning of the work the author gives us important clues. She describes the atmosphere perfectly, all is sad, it is automn, there are mist and cloud, it is rainning and Jane is a lonely person whit a special caracter that only sees the part empty of the botle, even when there are two simple ships, her imagination makes them into phantoms.

Before to have read some comments about the novel I was afraid to have to read a sad one, but now I hope no.

Anónimo dijo...

Susana
I must say that although I enjoy reading in english this book seems to me a little hard to read, and makes me feel that I would never be able to understand everything, to express myself in this language and to have a good pronunciation. Today is not my day, but I really like the feeling of learning something new and even if it is a hard thing to do I will try to get the advantage of every single word.

Anónimo dijo...

Ludi A 1-E

Hi everyone!

I'm surprised with the novel, because when I bought the book I thought it was boring and I wouldn´t enjoy reading it. But after reading the second chapter, I've discovered that the novel is interesting for me, although it's difficult too and I have to look up a lot of words.

I think the life of Jane is so difficult because of her mistreatment. But nowadays, we can observe this kind of treatment between our teenagers, fortunately it's in a different way, but it's so sad too.

Manuela A1-C dijo...

Hello mates!
I have just read the second chapter and I think, although there are a lot of words I don’t know, it is very interesting. I especially like the descriptions of the places where Jane Eyre was. Reading it you have the image of these places for example the red- room, you can imagine how terrifying it could be for a child.

Carlos dijo...

Hello Manuela¡

I agree whit you about the description of the red-room;if I were there perhaps I wouldn´t have a better image of the room, it looks terrify, and reading the chapter you can enter the history perfectly.

Mar A1C dijo...

Hello!
I´m also agree with Manuela and Carlos. The description of the red-room is disturbing. And it is also a little bit frightening when we know that Mr Reed died there. It wouldn´t be strange that Jane could see spirits!

marta dijo...

Mª Jesús, John Reed's without the article as it is a proper noun.
Jack is a nickname for John so it is John Reed.

Rosa a very interesting comment, yes let's talk about that in class, why is that?

Mariana: enjoying myself with the novel... for a child TO MAKE that...
I agree with you. Can a child write all that or is it the woman who remembers?

Carlos, before having, the gerund after prep! Yes it is difficult but it'll get much better you will see how you enjoy it. It is a very good novel.

marta dijo...

Susana, don't worry you will understand it well in no time.
Don't forget the subject, it must always be there ok?

Ludi, a good point let's talk about it. Bullying.

Manuela, I like the descriptions too, she manages to build up the atmosphere very well.

Mar, yes specially frightening for a 10-year-old, we have to bear in mind that there was no possibility of switching on the light!!!
Isn't it interesting that the room is red? The colour of Hell?

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

I am finding very exciting this book, and I am wondering which will be the next time that will happen to Jane.

Perhaps, as Marta says, the red-room is a symbol of hell. I prefer to think that is a very solemn place, like a chapel, or something like that. I one moment of the book, Jane says that his uncle died in that red room...

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

I would wanted to note a thing about Jane's idea about poverty.

I think it's a very British her idea about poverty, like something dignified by the work. I think that We, in Spain and South countries, have a very different opinion like that. I think is not only conected with technology, but also with social uses and religion. That is very well explained in "El Lazarillo de Tormes": one of Lazaro's masters is a poor and pround aristocrat, who rather prefer die of starvation instead to work. We think about work like a Biblical curse, something degradating. I think that is partially because English and German are Protestant, and for they, work is something very good and respectable. Probably Jane was protestant. In Spain, the ideal was to be a gentelman and not work at all. I think in other countries, in the North, the aristocracy had their own business, and they didn't live only on their properties.

Mercedes A1E dijo...

Hi everybody,
After I have read all the interesting posts, I’d like to add that I agree with people who says the book is not easy to read, but it is too much thrilling to left it, I think this book will catch us.
By the way, with regard the red-room subject I agree with Marta because the religion at that time was very suffocating and we should keep in mind that in the mind of the girl the prize and punishment are always present. J. Aire has received an unjust punishment and she has been locked in the red-room, in the hell.

marta dijo...

Rosa, what do you mean the next time that will happen to Jane?
..her uncle, Jane is a girl.
I don't quite see the red-room as a chapel, a chapel is positive and the red-room seems terrifying!
I would WANT, careful inf without to after a modal verb.
..I think IT is...who rather preferS TO die ...instead of working... for THEM, they is always the subject so never after a prep.
The analysis is probably right, she is definitely CofE.

Mercedes, with people who SAY, people is plural... too thrilling to leave... Jane Eyre.
I think you are very right about the red-room and have put it much better than I.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Well, if the red-room is the hell, is a cold hell, indeed. Sometimes, churches are terryfing places for litle children. And the religion was very repressive in XIX th century. A bit like Jane's environment. When I was a girl, sometimes felt like that when I went to a church: scary. Anyway, the name is well choosen, and the description, very suggestive.

There was a writter (I cant' remember who) who said that when electric light was invented, the ghosts vanished. Maupassant, a French author, said that terror was a son of the North: the sunrays melt it like mist.
We don't have many horror books in the Spanish litterature: the main horror novels and tales were written by English, American or German authors. Jane Eyre is not a horror book, but some pieces of it are a bit like that.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Of course. What I meant was that I was scared.
I wanted to say that, sometimes, churches are not pleasant places, especially the old churches: they usually are dark, cold, silent, lonely, and sometimes, with dead people buried inside them. For one, the church which I visited last weekend in a village of Valladolid: they had a whole room full of human bones.

Anónimo dijo...

Mª Jesus A1-E

Hello everybody!

As all of you have been said, the atmosphere was set in those first chapter and is chilly, painful and terrifying for Jane.

I just finished the third chpter and I found it very interesting because it has many clues about Jane's backgrounds and also because one window is been open by the apothecary, bringing fresh air to the scene and hope to Jane.

It is a wonderful chapter and I feel happy for having chosen it.

Fernando dijo...

First of all, i have to confess that i am not reading it as quick as i want, indeed i hadn´t enough time to finish the third chapter , that cause me a very frustrating feeling because i notice everybody did, sorry Marta, i beg your perdon, ;-) that´s why i´m trying to understand everything, yes i know it´s not the goal but i don´t like go further if i can´t stop to understand an expresion or a word i consider important for my inminent future, hehe, so i promise to do an extra effort to improve my way of doing this job.

Gema, AI C dijo...

Jane Eyre is a wonderful girl in a very difficult situation, I consider that she has a lot of imagination due to her panic, it is a way of surviving. I agree with you in the description of the red room as the hell, because they threat her of going there if her behaviour is not good enough.
I am very happy with this novel, because it is a challenge for my vocabulary and for my reading comprenhesion.

Carlos dijo...

Well, it is interesting to talk about the color of the room, perhaps it was only a color in a noble room, but we have to think that good writer usually uses deliverate words in order to transmit sometings to us, but more important is the idea that eachone has contribute with, and seeing the expectancy that it has created in us we can consider red color as a magnificent election

Mercedes A1-E dijo...

Hi mates,
What do you think about the opinion that J.A. has about the poverty?.
She says "poverty for me was synonymous with degradation", and she replies to Mr. Lloyd "No, I should not like to belong to poor people".
From my point of view, J.A. prefers to live with a family who are constantly punishment and maltreatment her and they make her an insufferable life before to find out an uncertain poor family instead of to try to escape from that house, even if they were kind to her. She declares don't want to buy the liberty at the price of caste.
It is a hard decisión for a little girl, I mean.

Violeta dijo...

Hello everyone!
If I were Jane Eyre I would prefer to be educated by my poor relatives rather than being with the Reed's.
But she is only a little girl and for she the poor people are uneducate.She is a poor girl,too how the awful Abbot says.
In her situation education is very important helping Jane to make her way in the world.

Violeta dijo...

John Reed is a monster.He abuses his cousin not only emottionaly also physically.He is the product of pampering.He is the favourite of his mother in spite of his horirble character.
John shows us the idea of differences between social classes and the importance of money.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Good morning every body.

I am finding very interesting all the posts, but I specially agree with Carlos.

marta dijo...

Rosa, in your first comment you have forgotten the subject very much, be careful, it must always be there. Your second comment is much better written, well done. Thanks for your ideas they are very true. However I don't find churches so scary, for me rooms are more so but I understand what you mean.

MªJesús, as all of you have been saying...
I agree with you about ch3, the novel is fantastic and it is really good that you can already appreciate it so well.

marta dijo...

Fernando, that causeD.., I noticeD.. like GOING.
Don't worry, it is a good idea to feel that you understand everything well. You will speed up when you get used to the style.

Gema, I'm so glad you like the novel! It'll get even better, it is wonderful, you will see. I agree that Bronte creates a great atmosphere sometimes stiflying, sometimes cruel but certainly real.

marta dijo...

Carlos, has contributeD, remember after have we must put the past participle. I agree about the colour, it is important and it helps build up the atmosphere of terror, I think Bronte does that very well.

Violeta, poor..are uneducateD the passive needs the past participle too.
I think you have a point about education, but we will see.
I agree also about John Reed, he is the product of pampering, there are many children like him today too. In fact all children are pampered today and I think that is why they suffer so much, they are not prepared for difficulties. I was certainly in some ways more spoilt than my parents.
I like the way she describes poverty, it is true that poverty for children is dreadful when they have known other situations. No wonder she didn't want to go with them if she thought they were so poor, the thing is where they? I wonder.

Manuela A1-C dijo...

Hello,
I want to comment how different poverty was in the nineteenth century. Nowadays someone poor has opportunities, they don’t die for not having food or for illness. But in Jane Eyre time the poor children couldn’t eat properly and many of them die. I think that it is why Jane didn’t want to live with her poor relatives.

Mariana dijo...

Hello everyone!
I agree with Manuela, I think Jane´s opinion about to be with Reeds instead of living with her poor relatives is not a child decision, Jane is very mature and sensible girl. People in s. XIX, especially women, hadn´t got any opportunity to improve her economic situation by themselves and Jane is conscious of this.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

You are very rigth.

John Reed never will be a responsable man because his mother has spoilt him: perhaps, if he would have a father (his father died when he was very young), it would be different. I think we have a similar problem with our children today. The main guilty are the parents, because they are unable to educate them, but they are not the only. I think that we have now a very different society, which teaches (through the media), that your pleasure and your social sucess are the only important things.

Anónimo dijo...

Mª Jesús A1-E

This is the link for the audio book of Jane Eyre in mp3: http://librivox.org/jane-eyre-by-charlotte-bront/

right there you'll find all the chapters.

Violeta A1C dijo...

Violeta
M.Jesús thank you very much for the information it is useful.

marta dijo...

Manuela, in J.Eyre's time.. You are right, the conditions of children were terrible and the mortality rate very high, it was Dickens who made everybody conscious of these conditions and things changed after him. Nowadays being is bad but nothing comparable.

Mariana, about BEING..the gerund after prep!!.. Jane is A mature.. to improve THEIR..
Yes it is true that Jane is too aware of this, probably because it is the adult talking, not the child.

marta dijo...

Rosa, ..if his father had been alive things would have been different.., careful with the conditional sentence the sequence has to be right, it is like in Spanish.
.. the parents are TO BLAME... they are unable to bring them up, education is at school, it has to do with books not with what they teach you at home.
Yes I think that John Reed is very like the spoilt children that are around nowadays. Now society spoils all children, there is no discipline, no authority and that is bad. I think it was very much so at the Reeds'

marta dijo...

Mª Jesús, thank you but can you put it so that if we click on it, we go straight to the page?
Is it possible? Maybe Alberto can do it if not, he is so good at this.
Don't worry if you can't

Anónimo dijo...

I think that poverty is a negative concept –not only from a material point of view-. JE does not know well the material consequences of the poverty; but she knows that there is a difference of classes between the poor people and the rich people. If you are poor you are a different person, so JE does not want to be different. She would like to be like their cousins and aunt but with a good heart and temper. She likes her cousins´dresses, their hairlook, their books, their drawing-room…, but she hates their temper and she does not like their hearth and their behaviour.

Beatriz dijo...

Hello everybody I am Beatriz

I think that poverty is a negative concept –not only from a material point of view-. JE does not know well the material consequences of the poverty; but she knows that there is a difference of classes between the poor people and the rich people. If you are poor you are a different person, so JE does not want to be different. She would like to be like their cousins and aunt but with a good heart and temper. She likes her cousins´dresses, their hairlook, their books, their drawing-room…, but she hates their temper and she does not like their hearth and their behaviour.

Violeta dijo...

Hi everyone!
After her uncle died Jane's aunt and the three Reed children become physically and emotionally abusive.
I feel pity for Jane's condition keeping suffering such a behivour she being deemed to suffer alone.
Jane develops a survival instinct.
Jane shows us a deep change in her personality faceing her aunt.

Anónimo dijo...

Hi!
I'm Laura.
Wow, there are a lot of messages about the book and I think that it's terrific!

I have to recognize that I started to read the book 12 years ago but I didn't finish it because I think I was not prepared to face this kind of literature. Now I love reading and writting and I think that this book it's a pleasure and a jewel!. I also try to pay attention to details and I discovered deep ones that before I wasn't able to read. Moreover, the disscussion between all of us is very very usefull.

Well, someone has said that the beggining of the book is quite interesting and well done. I agree indeed, because the author touch perfectly all the main aspects that make us a Jane's great picture about her life, personality, context...fears and dreams. In two chapters, we have met Jane Eyre 's world in a delicious way.

See you all
Kisses!

marta dijo...

Anónimo, like HER cousins, the possessor has pussy.
Yes and then there is the horror that seeing the poor people, she must have felt. Imagine what it was like at that time: the haggard faces, the thinness, the paleness of illness, the dirt, the suffering faces, the desperation... when you see paintings you cringe, imagine seeing the live version!
Oh! now I realise it is Beatriz. Anyway I agree with your comment, on the whole life at Gateshead must have been comfortable enough. Though of course children suffer too.

marta dijo...

Violeta, yes, this is a bit more of her spirit raising to the occasion, don't you think? She resisted all the way..
One undoubtedly pities Jane, she is a lonely unloved little girl, but one has to see also that she remembers all those things and it is very difficult for children to forgive, as adults, what was done to them during childhood.

marta dijo...

Laura, I am glad that you think so. You are right the blog is very good for you and you will see how you improve with it and with reading and discussing the novel.
The author toucheS, don't forget the S.
I agree with your analysis, we have met her and have a very good idea of what it was like. It is not so easy to produce an atmosphere, an effect, to describe and make it sound real. Bronte does that, don't you think??

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

I think that, in spite of all her misfortunes, Jane has an advantage: she has a lot of imagination. I think that if you have an imagination like hers, you never are really alone.

Blogcuentame dijo...
Este comentario ha sido eliminado por el autor.
Blogcuentame dijo...

Hi!! I'm Laura.
Oh yeah, Bronte demostrates her tremendous talent in the two first chapters. What I also like about the book is that we can meet Charlonte Bronte. I mean, the book is written in the first person, like a diary, I think that Bronte probably writes about her own experience or Jane is maybe a reflect about herself in a way. I want to investigate it. Quite interesting!
Imagination...It has no fronteers or boundaries and that's what Jane needs and uses in that house Kisses!!

Maite dijo...

Hello! I'm Maite.

I have been very lazy but I’m glad to see you have been writing almost every day. I have been reading what you have said about de novel, and I have found great comments which make the reading of the book more amusing and easy.

Talking about poverty, I agree with all you have said. Jane being a ten-year-old girl who knew almost nothing about what was going on outside the house must have felt poverty was the worst thing in the word. She just have seen extreme poverty outside Gateshead and have heard some comments from Mrs Reed and the people working at the house, and there was no hope in those comments she have heard. I can’t blame Jane for choosing the life she knows against a life without hope, knowledge and food. What can paralyze more than a life in which you can do nothing to improve your situation? Poor Jane… I can’t wait for a change in her life! Apothecary, take her outside this house!

marta dijo...

Rosa, imagination is fantastic, but it can make you suffer too don't you think? Though I agree with you that Jane has a lot. I think she finds solace in books, it is really good to have them for your friends...

Laura, yes there is a lot of Charlotte Bronte in that book, we will have to talk about it in the class.


Maite, she just HAD/HAS seen...and HAD/HAS heard...she HAD/HAS heard..
I think we all agree,the thought must have been horrible, to imagine herself out of the comforts of Gateshead!! No wonder she was prepared to suffer! Children are strong and survivors, but they are also weak and vulnerable.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Yes, it can do that if you don't use it wisely. As Goya said, the dream of the reason produces monsters, but the reason and the imagination put togheter are the mother of all the arts of knowleges.

Jane looks meek and insignificant, but if you read the conversation between Jane and her aunt, you will realize she is not that at all.

Maria A1 dijo...

Hello everybody...

I´m very surprised with all your comentaries, I think that JE is a good inspiration for most of us. It is the first time that I write, buy It is possible that it was a good way to improvore my english, and I need it. But it is impossible for me to continue your rythm.

In my opinion a girl who is ten years old doesn´t know the difference between the poverty and the rich, I think that these words have too much implications, and It is difficult for a child understand all these meaning. But it is obvius that JE realizes that her life is worse than others.

Anónimo dijo...

(Laura)Advance C
Hi!
I've just read chapter number 4 and I like it a lot! Jane's quarrel with his aunt is quite exciting, I have found myself saying "come on Jane, well done!" The writter creates an anguishly athmosphere quite good for theathe, the scene is quite well discribed.
I am a bit confusing with Mrs Reed reaction, did she really feel embarrased with her behaviour with Jane? or did she have no arguments to win the discussion? or Did not she argue because she thought that it wasn't worth it?
In spite of my doubts, Jane achieves her goal and finds an unknown and lovely Bessy for us.
See you all!

Anónimo dijo...

I am looking forward jane to going out Gateshead. I think that when

marta dijo...

Rosa, to be sure you are right. But sometimes one wonders whether it is the girl or the adult talking. I think that a 10 year old could not talk back as Jane did to her aunt.

María, all your comments..,it is possible that it should be a good, poverty and wealth...,too many implications...,for a child to understand...,than that of the others..,
I think that a child has a terror for poverty specially if she sees it around, I do think it is true.

marta dijo...

Laura, creates an atmosphere of anguish.., I am a bit confused.., about her behaviour to Jane..,
I think Mrs.Reed flees from the battlefield because she is in part taken aback by the fact that the child talks back, children didn't do it and also, being English, she runs away from the scandal. The English hate that.
I agree that the argument is very well done and a fantastic scene.

Maite dijo...

Hello!
Well, Jane is leaving now, so I can breathe… I felt specially sad for what was happening to Jane in this last chapter.
Before being hit and locked in the red-room, she had to suffer the chidings, she was mistreated… but after the fight she had to be alone all day and she was excluded from everything . It must be horrible, even if you don’t want to be there. I don’t know which situation I would prefer?
And isn’t it horrible when Jane sais “human beings must love something, …”, she had to love her doll! She had nothing better to love. It is not only that she is not loved, but also she has nothing around her good enough to be considered worthy of her love. Well, at least at the end of her life in Gateshead she has found a little bit of kindness.

Maite dijo...

Hi!
I don’t know if Mrs Reed didn’t answer because she didn’t like the scandal, but I think it was the worst thing she could do. I mean, Jane felt really horrible after all. Had she been not the only one talking in this way she wouldn’t have felt so bad.

marta dijo...

Maite two very true comments and well written too.
I agree that it is a blessing for her to leave Gateshead and that it is horrible, specially as a child not to have anything or anyone to love. At least as an adult you have your dead to love if nothing else, but she couldn't remember her parents so she didn't even have remembrances to fall back on.
Mrs.Reed was a very deficient woman, and very unkind. But the English are often cold and hard with themselves and with others, children included, being puritanical they often lack pity.

Mercedes AV1-E dijo...

Maite, I agree with you, the description about J.A. when she cling on the doll to feel safe and warm is fantastic, as a girl who doesn't have anything in the life, neither parents, nor love, she only has a doll what doted on, it helps her to sleep.
It is also significant when she is waiting for Bessie, for Bessie's kisses and her goodnights. Bessie is the only person who gave her love and tried her kindly.
It seems to me curios about the Bessie's physics description; she is slim young woman, with black hair…very nice features, etc. although she is indifferent ideas of principle or justice, J.A. preferred her to any one else at Gateshead.
When J.A. makes a description of different people on the novel, only Bessie has a pleasant figure and the rest of them who have a bad temper and they are cruel with her, they have a dark figure and even ugly constitution.
Is it a chance or is it on purpose?

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Good morning to all of you.

I find Eliza's behaviour very tacky and innapropiate for a young lady like her. You can see the real character of the Reeds in small details like this. All the Reeds displaced me, but I think that this particullar think is specially nasty.

Mariana dijo...

Hi everybody!
I enjoyed myself very much reading the conversation between Bessie and Jane, perhaps because those moments seem to be their last sincere ones. I think Charlotte Brontë recreates that touching scene very well, before reading that part I was really hoping that Jane left as soon as possible Gateshead, but after their talk, I felt little sad for Jane. I wonder if Bessie appears in other chapters...
I think that the fact of going to a new school like Lowood, without any friend, completely alone and with bad references about her in advance, must be very hard for Jane.

María Jesús dijo...

Mariana: I agree with you, I was expecting Jane's leaving as a relief but after that conversation I think is a pity because Jane is about to lose a tender relationship. Besides, the journey will be tough and it doesn't seem a very nice future.

Maite dijo...

Hi!
Well, it is true that finding that kindness just when she was about to leave is a pity, but at least she had something good related to all her life in Gateshead.
And now she will start a new life, although she will have to fight, because Brocklehurst is going to explain how horrible Jane is, as it was said in class. I was so relieved to know Jane was leaving the house that I didn’t think about it until you said in class. How can Mrs Reed be so cruel? She is stealing from Jane even the chance of starting without any prejudice against her.

Fernando A1D dijo...

I agree about this fancy scene has been a beam of light over the shadow, hopping it not to be the last at least, hehe.
As I promised to Marta here is my commentary abaut "todos eran mis hijos" from Arthur Miller, It´s a raw, cruel, emmotional sight of the reality, well performed in almost all the characters, I totally recommend going and see it because the feelings which it will cause you will be unforgettable. This play makes you doubt about what is more important in life, your family?, youursef?, your responsibility? The world?, have I Known the big impact the play caused me, i had gone to the theater with more handkerchiefs, ;-)

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Good afternoon, Fernando

I would want to read something by Arthur Miller. My mom was an amateur actress during her youth, and I think she made a part in Death of a Salesman.

About JE (Jane Eyre), I am afraid she is not going to have a good time when she will arrive to the school.

Elena dijo...

Hello,

Like my classmates, I have also found very moving the scene between Jane and Bessie at the end of Chapter 4. For the first time in the novel I have felt someone in Gateshead is fond of Jane and treats her kindly.
From my point of view although Bessie is not perfect she is the only one that has taken care of Jane while she has lived in the house.

Violeta dijo...

Mrs.Reed is so cynic,so diabolic telling Jane that she desire to be her friend.She don't want to "educate" Jane,nor to correct
"her faults",as she said.She was choosing a charitable school to remember Jane that she is poor.
Mrs.Reed is so cruel by telling
Mr.Brocklehurst that she wants Jane to spend the vacations always at Lowood.

Carlos dijo...

Hello.

I´m not sure about how bad it is Mrs Reed, perhaps it was only a method of education in England in that times; the harder you treat a child the better he gets to be.
Other curious thing with Jane it is that she dosen´t have past, only present, she dosen´t have memories. It looks as if she always have lived in that atmosphere, and then it is not normal that she acts so kindly or in that indiferent way with her cousins, I mean, she has no fear, she doesn´t run away from them, in those circunstances she had to became more "animal" with less feelings and more instincts.

Elena dijo...

I don't agree with Carlos: if it was a method of education Mrs Reed would treat her own children as she treats Jane and we have checked she doesn't.

On the other hand, I would like to talk about Jane’s farewell, at the beginning of Chapter 5. You will agree it was not emotional at all. Is it not cruel that nor Mrs Reed neither her cousins woke up in order to say Jane goodbye?

One more time we can see Mrs Reed’s indifference to her niece.

mar a1c dijo...

Hi mates!
Chapter 5 is the beginning of a new story, I suppose. Jane is going to study at Lowood and her life will be different. I don´t think that her future life at school will be nice. We have met Mr Brocklehurst and, frankly, his appearance, manners and words were disturbing! Maybe Lowood is like him. So Jane Eyre will face another problem I suppose...

marta dijo...

Mercedes, she clingS.., Bessie's physical appearance she is A slim woman.., although she is indifferent to... or she has indifferent ideas about...,
A good point, children need love and though Bessie is a positive figure, even in her appearance, children would love a monster if the monster loved them, don't you think? For me that is the power of love and it is great too.

Rosa, this particular thought is.., is that what you mean? Or Eliza is particularly nasty..,
Yes, she is. Also because I think she is the cleverest of the 3.

marta dijo...

Mariana, you are absolutely right. She has a hard way ahead, one can't stop thinking that she is going to suffer, but we don't know, specially with what Mr.B is going to tell about her.

MªJesús, I think IT is a pity..,
I agree with you two, that the tenderness of those last moments is great and very well depicted by Bronte.


Maite, until you said it in class...,
Mrs. Reed is certainly a cruel and bitter woman, but was she the typical of that time? Women were cold and detached then speccially if they were English. They were hard towards children, the only thing is that she is not so to her children.

marta dijo...

Fernando, I agree about this scene BEING.., as I promised Marta..,
A very good comment, with insight, but next time please post it in the theatre club, ok?

Rosa, we all feel that things are not looking up for Jane.

Manuela A1-C dijo...

Hi mates!
Jane has won her battle with Mrs Reed, she said what she thought to her and this cruel woman finished the argument leaving the room. I have smile reading this part, see how a ten-year-old girl faces a woman like Mrs Reed was very exciting.
I agree with Mar, the chapter 5 is the beginning of a new life for Jane. But this new life is going to be difficult, Mr Brocklehnrst seems to be a very strict man, and he has been influenced by Mrs Reed about Jane character. I think that Jane is going to fight all her life.

María Jesús dijo...

I still enjoy the descriptions of Jane's feelings and thoughts.There are some paragraphs on this chapter four, after the last fight between Jane and Mrs Reed plenty of regret and reflexions about her bitter victory. I share Jane's thought about the inconvenience of that fierce speaking when we get ungry. I find very authentic Bronte's description of Jane's spirit at that moment, and her incapacity for reading a loved book.

Anónimo dijo...

Ludi

Hi everyone!

I'm really happy because Jane has been able to face her aunt. She has expressed her feelings and how her family have treated her. However, I think Mrs. Reed doesn't mind the pain that she has caused to her niece.

Mercedes AV1-E dijo...

Hi,
Ludi, I agree with you, Mrs. Reed doesn't mind anything about J.A., Mrs. Reed is worried only to get rid of J.A. because she is a rebel and problematic young and her children hate her, so those situations are very complicated in the house.
Any way, it calls me attention the paragraph in which J.A. after to argue with her aunt, even though she is conscious of her victoria, on the other hand she feels bad because of thinking a child cannot quarrel with its elders, as she had done.
It seems to me that in that time the strict upbringing is in the mind of everybody not only in her aunt’s mind but also in the own J.A.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

What do you think about Mrs. Reed, her children, and Mr Brockleburst and his daughters?


I think that the word which defines them the best is mean, and not only in an economical way. They are not evil, but they are mean, and mediocre, contemptible...In spite of their wealths, and social possicion, they always would be vulgar and ordinary, and they never could be any other thing.

What do you think about Helen Burns? She is the opposite to Jane, but not in a bad way. I think that just for that Jane is going to be specially fond of her, because she is like her, but in an opposite way.

marta dijo...

Carlos, about how strict Mrs.R is..,
You are right it was a method,it was not so strange then, though she is cruel.
She always haS lived..,

Elena, yes Mrs.R is cruel but the method was the one she used, I agree with Carlos. They didn't say bye to her because none of them liked her,she was difficult and she answered back. She was a difficult child for the standards of the day.

Mar, Lowood is a bit like Mr.B we fear but it might be better than Gateshead.

marta dijo...

Manuela, I have smiled..,
I couldn't agree more, Jane is going to fight all her life, having no money and no connections she will have to.

MªJesús I do think Bronte is very good at describing the child's feelings. It is true that when one fights then there is a kind of sensation that oh why did I do it. It can happen to you as an adult too.

Ludi, I don't think Mrs. R is aware of the pain she has created, she is cold and cruel, but people were often like that. She is an extreme creation based on Bronte's aunt. Charlotte could never forgive her.

marta dijo...

Mercedes, the paragraph... calls MY attention... in which Jane after arguIng...,in J.E's mind..,
I agree with you, the way in which relations among people happened was very different and very strict.

Rosa, in spite of their wealth.
Mr.B is despicable and mean, all that you say and more, the worst Puritan starving the girls and keeping them in such an unhealthy enviroment.
I agree about Helen Burns, she is a queer child, but Jane is queer too. They are both different and that is why they are going to strike a friendship probably.

What kind of girl is Helen? In what ways is she like Jane or is she very different?

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Good morning every one.

What I wanted to say is that Helen is not a brave girl, like Jane, or rebel. Perhaps, in fact, she is that, but not in the same way. When Helen is punished, she bears it peacefully, in a humble way. I think that Jane wouldn't do the same as Helen, she would figth, and she would be very angry.

Mariana dijo...

Hello,
I think Helen Burns is calm and quiet girl. She accepts every punishment of Miss Scatcherd without fighting and she is every time turning the other cheek. She understands and assumes her faults because she is convinced that Miss Scatcherd is always right.
Helen and Jane share the same interest in reading; that was the main reason why Jane began to talk with Helen. However, they have very different temperaments, I agree with Rosa, while Jane is a fighter Helen is a conformist. Maybe Helen’s submissiveness is another way of fight; I don’t know. But I think that the fact of being so different is a good point because they can complement each other. I’m happy for Jane because I think she has found her first friend.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

What do you think about Mr. Brockleburst attitude to the girls, during his visit, with his daughters, to the school? He is talking about meek and insignificant dresses and attirements, and his daughters and the other ladies are dressed as fancy as they were princess. And his attitude to the girl with curly hair (Julia, I think was her name), is quite Nazi-like (altough they didn´t have nazis in those days). Well, I think it has only a name: hipocrisy. It is something that very often (but not always) is conected with religion and religions, and people with conservative ideas, something like "do as we say but not as we do".

marta dijo...

Rosa that is true, but we can also think that she is in a kind of different dimension and she is above petty things like punishments or humiliation. She does not belong to this world, she lives in her own.

Mariana, Helen is A quiet girl.., another way of fighting..,
You are right, Jane has found her first friend and the feeling I think on Jane's side than on Helen's. Helen is more detached, wordly things do not affect her.

Rosa, Mr.B's attitude, don't forget the Saxon Genitive.
Yes, Puritans are like that, something for them and nothing for the rest. He shows himself as he is

juana dijo...

Hallo, sorry for the previous comment. It is my first time and I didn't know how it properly worked.
Next time I'll comment about Jane Eyre.

Violeta dijo...

Hello folks!
I would like to tell you that in the Liberarte theatre is playing The Dumb waiter&Landscape.I read good coments about it.If you are booking online in www.atrapalo.com
the price is 8 E/tiket.
I hope you´ll enjoy the play.

amparo dijo...

I agree with you Marta,the chapter four is fantastic.
Poor girl, poor Jane.What an awful solitude!.None of the family likes Jane...and John her constant tormentor.It's for this reason and several desires that she chooses to go to Lowood school.Perhaps, in this place she could have the opportunity to gain an education and the independence.I whish that this change represents a happy period in Jane Eyre's life.

Beatriz dijo...

Hello, I am Beatriz

I do not like the education at L. Mr B is a man very worried about the rules but he does not give importance to the girls’ feelings or needs . He does not mind if they are hungry or sad or they are cold…he only minds the rules are obeyed and with this attitude, he gets the girls are frightened at L . they do not notice the love or the trust. It seems that the only person who is worried about each one of the girls is Miss Temple. She knows when she has to break a rule because people are important. For example when the porridge is burnt and she orders a lunch with cheese and bread. Jane can be quiet because Miss Temple is at L. I would like Jane to be her friend, because she can need her help. It seems things are not going to be easy for Jane.

marta dijo...

Juana where is your previous comment?? Don't worry it happens to me the whole time, you have to check that it says: Se ha guardado comentario. If not it is not there.

Amparo, good for writing. John IS her torturer...., several other wishes...,.
Yes we all hope so and maybe it is going to be better, because for start Miss. Temple has feelings, she is kind, she thinks about the girls, she knows that their life at Lowood is hard as there is little food, it is cold etc, but kindness is very important

marta dijo...

Beatriz, or if they are cold.., minds that the rules (should) be obeyed..., he gets the girls frightened..,
You are right, things are not going to be easy but Miss. Temple is going to smooth the path one thinks, doesn't one?
Mr.B is a miser and a bad person, he provides for the school only for prestige, he is not kind. He is the worst possible kind of person, as you say

Anónimo dijo...

Hi, I'm Laura Advance D (I think)

I like Helen Burns in spite of the fact that she assumes what the teacher complains about her. I agree with someone who has said that Jane and Hellen will probably complete each other. For instance Janes is more friendly but Helen listens to her carefully. I wish that Jane manages to convince Helen about her injustice and to have more security about herself. In the conversation that the girl's have, Helen starts to realize the difference between beeing in Mrs'Temples class or in Mrs Scatcher's. If they are respectfull to her, she will act with the same respect.
See you in class

marta dijo...

Laura, complement each other.., I wish that Jane would manage is better though your option is possible.
..about her injustice and having.., gerund after preposition.
Do you think so? I agree that they are different and that they complement each other but I wonder if Helen will change, in a way Helen is detached from this world, she lives in her own, she is a bit of an autist. Jane is in this world, on the other hand, Jane fights wants and needs loves, proclaims injustice when she sees it. Helen does not, the worldly acts do not touch her. Do you see my point? What do the rest of you think?

Amparo dijo...

The chapters four and five are impregned with religious expressions, as you know.It could be because of Charlotte Brontë believed in the precepts of Christianity but not in the narrownes of its interpretation.the chapters four and five, in my opinion, it's a criticism to an odd and even cruel misunderstand the religion.It's true that,in that times,religion become a form of social control, and we see its misuse as a form of moral pressure in Mr. Brocklehurst. Jane loves being herself,and living with independence and her defiance...
Perhaps,that Jane's character can be the answer a her question in the chapter 2. " Why was I always suffering,...."

marta dijo...

Amparo, full of religious expressions.., because C.B believed in..or because of C.B's believing..., chapters 4+5 are a criticism to an odd and even cruel misunderstanding of.., those times..,perhaps J's character can be the answer to her question...
A very good bit of thinking, I agree with you she was suffering because she was a sensitive girl and consequently sufferred more than those who are not. Not belonging to the group always makes one suffer and Jane does not belong, to a certain extent.

It can also be that she suffers physically as her life was very hard.

Good for writing, please write more at least three per week, they don't have to be long, ok?

marta dijo...

What vision do we have of religion so far? Let's talk about that. Amparo has raised an important point in the novel

Mercedes AV1-E dijo...

Yes, the religion is an important point in the novel, in my opinion all chapters I have read until now the religion is present.
I note, here the religion is a form to put pressure on people, it is a form to practice the authority, so Jane suffers a lot, she is a rebel, she wants to fight for the true and against the unjustice, meanwhile Helen Burnt is conscious that she is obliged to follow the Christian rules, so she is suffering patiently because the Bible says that in the earth, the believer has to return good for evil. Para Helen this is not a bad imposition it is only a rule that she has to respect because she is obliged for her belief, so it is not necesary to fight, only, to be an obedient person.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Good evening to all of you.

I think that Jane is, if not a religious person, a spiritual person, but not in a traditional way.

I think that Helen is not only a martyr, but also a fatalistic, almost in an oriental way. Perhaps she is very ill, she says such things, because she knows she is about to die. Do you know a Spanish film, based in a real story called "Camino", about an ill girl who belonged to the Opus Dei? I think that it's difficult that a girl would be like Helen, but not impossible.

By the way, notice the beautiful sentence at the ending of chapter 7, when Jane is talking about Helen and Miss Scatcherd, who was unable to see the good qualities of people.

I think that sentence is just beautiful, if Charlotte Bronte was not a genius, she was close.

Ludi dijo...

Hello!!

I agree with you, when you say that we can find the religion in all the chapters. At the end of the chapter six, there is a vast reflection about it. Helen tries to convince or explain to Jane the necessity to have a good behaviour, even when people don't respect you or they don't treat you properly.
But Jane has clear ideas, and she knows what is just or not. Therefore, I think she is figthing until the end, although she has the capacity to listen to her friends too.

I want to point out the descripcion of the school and how M.B. manages it. The girls can study there, but they also are cold during the nigth, don't eat enough...

marta dijo...

Mercedes,in all the chapters.., fight for the truth..,on Earth..,
Yes religion is very important and present in the novel. Bronte is sending the message: we have to abide by the law of Christ. What kind of girl is Helen? As her name indicates she is burming with religous feeling don't you think?

marta dijo...

Rosa why didn't you include the sentence? We don't know the one you mean! Please write it, I am curious.
You may be right that Helen is very ill, I do think there is a suggestion in that line, but Helen is so full of religion because I think, that for her religion is salvation. It is something to look forward to. She has not found happiness in this world, so she hopes she will in the next. Religion gives you that, it is kind of like an Oriental phylosophy, I agree, just as they don't mind so much about the hardships of this life, because they believe in reincarnation, so does Helen. She looks forward to the liberation of her soul in Heaven

marta dijo...

Ludi, they don't eat enough..,
Jane and Helen are different, Jane is undoubtedly religious, as everybody then, but she is more wordly. Helen is an asthete, a martir. One is for living the other is for death, she sees that as a solace, life here is horrible so she wants to be happy in another world. I think we respect Helen but we empathise with Jane as most of us are like her, don't you think???

marta dijo...

Ludi, they don't eat enough..,
Jane and Helen are different, Jane is undoubtedly religious, as everybody then, but she is more wordly. Helen is an asthete, a martir. One is for living the other is for death, she sees that as a solace, life here is horrible so she wants to be happy in another world. I think we respect Helen but we empathise with Jane as most of us are like her, don't you think???

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

This is the sentence:

"Such is the imperfect nature of man!such spots are there on the disc of the clearest planet; and
eyes like Miss Scatcherd’s can only see those minute
defects, and are blind to the full brightness of the orb."

Don't you think it's something wonderful?

Irene A1C dijo...

Hi!!

I don't know if someone has commented something about cuting girl's hair because I haven't got enough time to read all the posts. I find it terrible what Mr Brocklehurst wants to do! Having the hair cut completely is horrible for a girl. I don't understand Mr Brocklehurst's reasons to cut girl's hair. However, something happens with women's hair. I think, maybe it's something lecherous for men? I don't know, but it makes me think about muslim countries where women must hide her hair with a veil.

Irene A1C dijo...

Sorry, THEIR hair!!

Beatriz dijo...

I think Helen is an ill girl, and she agrees with everything and the religion is a source of confidence for her. It is the only thing she believes because she has not other things. She does not fight because she lacks character, she prefers to support the injustice; it is easier for her. She agrees with everything, but Jane does not: Jane wants to improve her attitude, her position, she wants to have friends… It could be said that Helen does not have hopes, her only hope is the heaven. And Jane is full of hopes and for this reason she fights. She wants to have a better world on the earth.

Mónica Cagiao dijo...

Hello everyone!I´m Mónica
I totally agree with you, Beatriz. It´s horrible to have the hair cut, and more at ten. At the moment I love long hair, but I loved long hair when I was ten too, maybe more than now!. And I think that it´s a pity the fact that Helen must agree with cutting her hair, because it shows us that because of the religion she is losing her childhood. It´s not a behaviour of a child, it would be the behaviour of an old aged.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Good morning to everyone.

This post is not directly connected with Jane Eyre, but I think it could be interesting to all of usa, because it's about litterature. The last Friday, I bought a dvd film, which I wanted to see since a lot time ago. It was Wuthering Highs, directed by William Wyler, and the main roles were played by Merle Oberon, David Niven and Laurence Olivier. As you surely know, the original novel was written by Emily Bronte, who was Charlotte Bronte' s sister.
I really liked this film, if you have the opportunity of seeing it, don't miss. I'll try to get the novel to read it. It's supposed that, in this film, Olivier plays the role of a gipsy, but he is so handsome that he can be as he wants. His role, Heathcliff, has some things in common with Jane Eyre.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Good morning to everyone.

This post is not directly connected with Jane Eyre, but I think it could be interesting to all of usa, because it's about litterature. The last Friday, I bought a dvd film, which I wanted to see since a lot time ago. It was Wuthering Highs, directed by William Wyler, and the main roles were played by Merle Oberon, David Niven and Laurence Olivier. As you surely know, the original novel was written by Emily Bronte, who was Charlotte Bronte' s sister.
I really liked this film, if you have the opportunity of seeing it, don't miss. I'll try to get the novel to read it. It's supposed that, in this film, Olivier plays the role of a gipsy, but he is so handsome that he can be as he wants. His role, Heathcliff, has some things in common with Jane Eyre.

Amparo dijo...

Jane can't understand Helen's passive response to Miss Scatcherd's unfair treatement.I agree with your opinions that Jane and Helen are very different, but Helen's passive behavior is because Helen has developed a sense of pointlessnes of answering back which would only lead to her expulsion from the school,she is a realistic girl as Jane seems idealistic girl.If I were Helen I would have had the same comportment

marta dijo...

Rosa, fantastic, thank you for posting it. It is absolutely true inherent to human nature, we are still so.

Irene, for cutting her hair..,
The reasons are, in my opinion, that curly hair is sexier than straight as in our canon of beauty the human hair is always wavy or curly, think of Greek statues. It is also a sign of vanity since women usually wore curls to be more beautiful

marta dijo...

Beatriz, she believes in..., to bear injustice.., has hope..,
I agree, Helen is only expecting death, she wants that liberation, Jane wants to live and life is a fight, she has still to learn what acceptance is.

Monica, you have a point, hair is very important for girls, specially as girls when we all want it long. I remember having wannted it very much and my father not allowing it. It is a way to differenciate you from boys too.

marta dijo...

Rosa, I am very glad you liked it and thanks for telling the rest. The film is very good but the novel much better. What I don't see is the likeness between Heathcliff and Jane. Heathcliff is very passionate and cruel, Jane is neither to the extent that he is. But when you read the novel we can talk about that. Now you have to concentrate on Jane Eyre which is ours, ok?


Amparo, a very good comment, whith which I agree mostly except on the fact that Helen is realistic and Jane idealistic. I see it more the other way round, since Jane belongs to this world, the real world, and Helenn to the other, the idealistic, since we all hope it exists but we are not sure about. It is an idealistic world and believing in it is a question of faith.

Mónica Cagiao dijo...

Hi!
I´m hooked on the book.It´s very good. The fact that Jane and Helen obtained an afternoon in the Miss Temple´s house is fantastic for their. They had more food, and, in fact, good food, and more important they got special tratement. Moreover, Jane had a support on Miss Temple whom explained Jane that she isn´t going to be hated for her school college.

Mónica Cagiao dijo...

excuse me: Miss Temple´s house (without the)
and treatment instead of tratement
I´m sorry, I didn´t review it.

María Jesús dijo...

I'm reading again the chapter 7 and, as we have been talking in class about Mr. Blocklehurst's badness or goodness, I have to say it's unbelievable how he can be so mean and hypocrite. Having such a family, how can he spoke like that to the poor girls?. His wife and his daughters wore like princesses. How disgusting!. It is a good example of the double morality very common between religious people.

As for Jane, she was so unlucky trying not to call Mr. B.'s atention...But it's a good thing that in the end she realized nobody likes that horrible man and she could feel relief.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Good afternoon.

I totally agree with all of you, but, specially, whith María Jesús. Mr. Brocklehurst is a Pharisee, like the Biblical ones. There is no worst people that such kind of people, they think they are very good, but they are not good at all.

I think Miss Temple is going to see a real good influence to Jane, like a model, perhaps the only positive that she is going to Know.

Ludi dijo...

Hi!

I totally agree with Mª Jesus, when you say Mr. Brokleshurst is hypocrite, because he wants to transmit sobriety, simplicity to the girls who live in Lowood, but their own relatives wear fashion clothes, their hair is elaborately curled... So, I think M.B. isn't doing a good act, at managing the school, he does it to just for show and to make good contacts.

On the other hand, I think Jane is learning a lot. Now she prefers austerity instead of luxury, because of the knowledge that she can learn.

marta dijo...

Mónica, is fantastic for them..., Miss Temple who explained to Jane that she was not going to be hated.
I'm glad you mention the tea scene, I think it is delightful how she explains what a treat it was for the girls. A bit of love often goes a long way, I think the scene is wonderful.
Don't you think that there are very simple things in life that we often remember forever? That is because they meant so much... I wonder if we could talk about that in class, think of all those kind of scenes and then let's bring them up during the lesson.

marta dijo...

MºJesús, were dressed as princesses
I agree, Jane again became one with her school mates and even teachers because they all thought the same about Mr.B

marta dijo...

Rosa, it is impossible to find a worse person..., don't translate from Spanish. The second part of the comparison is THAN....Miss T is going to be.., the only positive ONE..,
Yes I agree, she is the only positive model so far, apart from Bessie, but Bessie is a servant and the relationship is different. In Spain the relationship with servants is different, more friendly like. Sometimes they were like part of the family, in England this is very difficult.

marta dijo...

Ludi, HIS own relatives..., don't translate from Spanish, please.... fashionable clothes.., he does it just to pretend he is a good person.., she prefers austerity to luxury and she values knowledge and studies.
Is that what you wanted to say?
I agree that now she is beginning to value an education, this is one of the messages in the novel, I think, do you agree'

Mariana dijo...

Hello, I would like to talk about Helen´s death. I cried reading the last scene, I felt so sad for Jane! I have never liked Helen very much, I never understood her religious convictions and her fanatic devotion. So I felt really sad for little Jane, because she has lost her first real friend, her confidant. I think that Helen was a good influence for Jane who admired her very much. And now, Jane has realized that she needs to learn lot of things and she is aware of the importance of education.

Manuela A1-C dijo...

Hi!
I agree with Ludi when he said that Jane is learning a lot, but I think that she is learning not only knowledge, she is learning about life. In Lowood, Jane has met people who love and respect her, like Miss Temple who gives her the opportunity of defending herself against the accusation of Mr Brokleshurst.
When Mr Lloyd asked Jane if she wanted to life with her poor relatives, she only thought that they are poor, but now she gave more importance to the fact of living with people who are kind with her instead of living with luxuries.
I also agree with Marta, the value of education is very important in the novel. It is the only thing that Jane could do if she wants to have a future.

Elena dijo...

No doubt: Helen's death has been the saddest scene in the novel (at least until now). It has also moved me a lot.
I would like to comment Jane's bravery: she was not afraid of catching Helen's illness if she went to Miss Temple's room; the most important thing for Jane in that moment was to see her friend for the last time and so she did it.
From my point of view that is a clear sign of the close friendship between the two girls.

Beatriz dijo...

One more time we can see the double moral of Mr B. He has not gone to Low since the illness began. It is a fact of cowardice and lack of responsibility because he is the director. We can see the worst of his character and we can think he is inhuman. He does not appear in the hard moments, he appears to ensure that the rules are upheld.
He is selfish and he defends the interests of his family but not the interests of the people who are under his responsibility.

Amparo dijo...

An English prover says "A friend in need is a friend indeed".That's true.Jane takes a risk coming in Miss Temple's room so late,near eleven,and she could become infected with Helen's illness, but she have to see to her friend she need showing her feelings to Helen .Helen has been a great help to Jane.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Good morning.

Yes, Beatriz, I totally agree with you. Because Mr Brocklehurst is the responsible of the school, she should come there and see what was happening.

Poor Jane, I feel so sorry for her...She has lost her only friend, Ms. Temple and and the servant girl, Bessie, were fond of her, but they are adult women, they are not girls like Jane. I find this part of the book so moving... Even in the death, you can see thar the orphan girls are not treated like the others, it seems that they are not as valuable or as good as the others...

Mercedes AV1-E dijo...

Hi everybody,
I don't want to post about Helen's death because there are some good and accurate commentaries and I don't believe that I am going to add anymore interesting at the posts have been writing, but however I would like to point out a subject about Helen's character, for instance when she is talking to Jane and she says that dying young she will escape great suffering because she had no qualities or talents to make her way very well in the world.
From my point of view Helen looks not be a person of this world, I understand she is very mature but so much modesty, so much conformist with her destiny is unacceptable in my mind, I think a little bit of rebellion is more human than to assume all bad lucks that God wants to send you, so I understand better Jane's character than her friend Helen.

marta dijo...

Mariana, I cried too. It is a very moving scene and you are right one is sad for Jane, one feels she is alone again, though not completely, Miss Temple is there.

Manuela,..The only thing that Jane could do if she wanted to...
Yes I think she perceives it is important and Bronte is telling us that it is so. Jane wants to study and do well and the only way is having an education.

marta dijo...

Amparo, she has to see her friend and she needs to show. Careful with the S.
A good point, Helen was indeed a friend to Jane, the first friend and also she was an intellectual friend with whom she shared her love for books. Jane was a friend for Helen too, we don't see contact so well with the other girls. So it is a pity that they had to part with each other so early.
The moment of Helen's death, with Jane embracing her is really moving, Helen was lucky to have somebody embracing her on her deathbed, she didn't die alone. And it is moving too to see how little Jane realised that that was the case.

marta dijo...

Rosa, yes it is terrible to realise that what you say about the orphan girls is right. Money, money, money it is SO important!! And the contrast between spring and life blooming around them and death taking away so many young girls... is horrifying!!

Mercedes, as the ones written..,
I totally agree that it is very difficult to find a person like Helen and so we empathise more with Jane. Helen is aware that she is not suited to live in this world and so she accepts her destiny as a liberation of the mind and soul. She is a mystic, she yearns for the other world, so while we feel sad she is really happy. I like her words when Jane goes into the room: You come to say good-bye..
Hamlet, with a greater depth and not being a mystic, feels similarly in that he wants to leave this world too, he feels this world is not for him, but he suffers, Helen does not for she is really detached.

Maria Jesús dijo...

Hi everyone!

After the sad chapter 9, I've charmed by the merry chapter 10. When Miss Temple disappiars, Jane's real personality appiars again and it brings us action and fight and wonderful reflections which I love the most.
Her transformation in only one afternoon is great and also her thrilling thoughts. She is extremely alived, looking for new experiences and ready "to seek real hnowledge of life amidst its perils".
And Bessie's visit is very moving and encoureging for Jane in her way to a new life. She leaves knowing Bessie has found her very well educated and as a proper lady.

I think is a wonderful chapter.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

You are rigth, in this chapter, the contrast between like and death is tremendous.
So, Jane has lost her fiend. But I think this is not going to make her more poor. Her world, not her mind, is narrow. Probably, Jane doesn't know what she wants, but she knows (and very well) what she doesn't want, and what she doesn't like. And I think that nobody had told to her, she learnt by her own. She is a sort of heroin, but not in a classic way. In the classic plays, the heros tried to fight against their destinies, but Jane doesn't, because, by the moment, she doesn't know what is. She doesn't fight, but she is not content with it. Probably, other person -Helen, for instance- wouldn't do the same. I think this is a very atractive and modern freature of the character, because in our days there are much people who don't know what they have to do with their lives, altough they don't like them. Jane is very young: perhaps soon, when she became an adult woman, she will know it.
Notice other feature of Jane's character: when her friend was ill, close to death, she went to see her, in spite of she could catch the illness and die. She didn't mind the infection, she is a brave girl, more concerned by her friend's feelings than for her own heath.

Good night.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

You are rigth, in this chapter, the contrast between like and death is tremendous.
So, Jane has lost her fiend. But I think this is not going to make her more poor. Her world, not her mind, is narrow. Probably, Jane doesn't know what she wants, but she knows (and very well) what she doesn't want, and what she doesn't like. And I think that nobody had told to her, she learnt by her own. She is a sort of heroin, but not in a classic way. In the classic plays, the heros tried to fight against their destinies, but Jane doesn't, because, by the moment, she doesn't know what is. She doesn't fight, but she is not content with it. Probably, other person -Helen, for instance- wouldn't do the same. I think this is a very atractive and modern freature of the character, because in our days there are much people who don't know what they have to do with their lives, altough they don't like them. Jane is very young: perhaps soon, when she became an adult woman, she will know it.
Notice other feature of Jane's character: when her friend was ill, close to death, she went to see her, in spite of she could catch the illness and die. She didn't mind the infection, she is a brave girl, more concerned by her friend's feelings than for her own heath.

Good night.

beatriz dijo...

It is very surprising that Jane, being so young, has experienced very hard things like: being an orphan, having been treated so bad by her family; then when she is at L she has experienced the cold, the hungry , the illness and finally her best friend’s death so close. This is no very common. She is learning many things about languages or subjects and mainly about the life.

beatriz dijo...

It is very surprising that Jane, being so young, has experienced very hard things like: being an orphan, having been treated so bad by her family; then when she is at L she has experienced the cold, the hungry , the illness and finally her best friend’s death so close. This is no very common. She is learning many things about languages or subjects and mainly about the life.

marta dijo...

MªJesús, I was charmed..,she is extremely alive..,on her way.., I think IT is a wonderful..,
A very good comment and thank you for the quote.
I think Bessie's visit is important in that we do get a vision of Jane from the outside, since she is writing that is important. It is a link between the past and the future ahead. I like the chapter too, now we are before a new live.

marta dijo...

Rosa, nobody told her..,she learnt by herself..,another person..,for the moment..,many people..,when she becomes an adult..,in spite of the possibility of catching...,
I agree that Jane is brave and that she fights, but I see that she wants to have experiences and to live her life. She does not want to sort of hide and live like aisolated. She yearns for experiences, don't you think?

marta dijo...

Beatriz, hunger..,this is not very common..,about life.., when we speak in general we don't use the article.
Yes, but at that time life was harder than today, Jane has had a hard life but what about the other girls at Lowood? What about Helen's? Hard too and with an illness.

Elena dijo...

Life in Jane’s time was, generally speaking, harder than today. But we cannot forget that such terrible situations are suffered by children also nowadays. It comes to my mind a report which shaken the world several years ago about life conditions in Chinese orphanages. I can guess the situation there was even worst than in Lowood.
What I want to point out is that how you childhood has been (and how you life will be in the future) depends mostly on where you have been born.

Elena dijo...

I meant:
... a report which shook the world ...

Mónica Cagiao dijo...

Good afternoon everyone!

I love chapter ten. It gaves us new stories which are starting now. I missed Jane´s character. She was very calm, it would be because of Miss Temple´s influence, I don´t Know, but I want to Know new places, and new people. I wish Jane meet good people in her new life; but I doubt it. I think she would go on suffering a little bit more, but I´m sure that she would fight and do her best, anyway. It´s great for Jane to leave Lowood after staying with Bessie! That was a really good moment. But there is a thing I don´t understand, why compares Bessie Jane with Mrs Reed´s children? I think it´s worthless for Jane.

marta dijo...

Elena, a report comes to mind.., was even worse than at Lowood..,
I couldn't agree more. Dickens says in Oliver Twist that the moment you are born, you are classified by the clothes they dress you in. I think it is true, our life depends on where we are born.
I suppose the third world countries are like the western countries in the 19th century, you are right in making that comparison

marta dijo...

Mónica, I think you make a good point: Jane has changed, they have tamed her. It is a pity, but on the other hand that is what maturity is about: control and manners. The system has worked very well, is Jane going to resist all the way now? Or has she learnt that resistance is in vain?
I wish Jane met.., she will go on...,better than would. Why does Bessie compare...,
I think she does because she wants to tell Jane about her cousins, she wants to enhance how very well Jane is compared to them and it is a way for us to see that too, as the novel is in 1rst person and otherwise it wouldn't be so easy for us to find out about it.

Mariana dijo...

Hi. I’m very happy for Jane, because she has done her best at Lowood and now she is going to start a new life. She can decide what to do, according to the possibilities for a woman without resources, or influential relatives or social position in those days. Miss Temple left has been positive for Jane, because she reacted and I think she needed something like that to take back the reins of her life. Although Jane is alone again, she has grown, she has become an educated and cultured woman capable of fending for herself and I think that´s very rewarding for a person.

marta dijo...

Mariana, the possibilities of a woman..,Miss T's departure..,
A very good comment.
I agree with what you say in all points. It was a blessing that Miss T left as it enabled Jane to leave and she is a success according to Bessie who is really impressed with her.
I think that it is sweet of Bessie to have called her baby daughter Jane, it is a way for Jane to know that there was somebody who loved and cared for her back at Gateshead.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Goof afternoon.

Now, We are seeing the effects of the breding of Mrs. Reed children. John is a dissipated young man, who probably drinks and gambles, and spends his family money, he probably and does worse things. Georgiana is a vane and hussy girl who doesn't mind to ruin her reputation and her family's one, and who, in spite of her beauty and wealths, is unable to marry the man she loves. Eliza is a jealous and mean woman, with no special talent, who can betray her sister only because she is jealous and no one loves her (why?). And now look to Jane, she has had a difficult childhood, without family, money or friends (except, perhaps, Bessie, Ms. Temple and, of course, Helen), without beauty, without a very good health...But she in intelligent, brave, stedfast, and she is mainly appreciated by her teachers and mates at Loowood, and now she as a promising live in front of her. She is going to work in a wealthy house, among people who seems very likeable, Adele, and Mrs. Fairfax.

Notice that the names of this novel are very significative: "Burns", "Temple",
"Fairfax", "Thornfield"...I specially like this last one, is something like a garden of rosebushes, beautiful, but tormented, because roses are beautiful, but they have thorns, and thorns can harm...
I think it is very good your comentary about Bessie's daughter...
Now, I am a bit thrilled about Mr. Rochester. Will he be good or evil, handsome or ugly? What will be his relation to Jane?

Maite dijo...

Hello,

I liked the way Mr Rochester and Jane met, for they were not in Thornfield and Jane felt brave enough to speak and act as the great woman she is and not as a governesh who has to please his Master.

marta dijo...

Rosa, look at Jane..,I think your comment about Bessie's daughter is..,
A very true and good comment, however I don't see why Jane's health is poor. She has not ever been ill, her health is fantastic, she didn't catch the tiphus either.
The good fair well and the bad badly, Bronte sends that message, don't you think??

marta dijo...

Maite, who has to please HER master.
Yes I think it is delightful, I think Jane explains why she talked to him naturally.
How about the fact that he fell? What do you think about that? It is quite a singular way of meeting isn't it?
Then I like the way they met again in the house, don't you?

María Jesús dijo...

I liked very much Jane's reflections at the begining of chapter 12 (second page), when she explains restlessness is not in her nature. She is looking eagerly for new experiences and founds Thornfield too tranquil.She appears as a great feminist. She doesn't want to be confine to cocking and knitting and so on because she is a woman. She would like to have as much opportunities as men have.

Later on, she met Mr. Rochester, and I agree with you, Marta that it was a very nice way to meet each other. Mr. R. could see what kind of woman she is before knowing she was his governess. And with this small incident, Jane dreamed and didn't want to came back because she would like to fancy another life...

Maite dijo...

As Maria Jesus, I liked the beginning of chapter 12. Never did we see Jane as a woman who would refuse to face life alone, but it is the first time we have seen it so clearly. She is much more independent than many women nowadays.
And also I enjoyed reading that Jane likes troubles. It is not a common idea, but although I don’t share it with Jane I think that going through harsh moments is a (I was going to say good, but maybe it is not the right word) efficient way to better oneself.

Amparo dijo...

Jane Eyre is a novel about one woman's journey through life.This journey is explained from Jane's " journeys".The main events in the novel take place at different locations (Gatesgead-the red room-,Lowood-Miss Temple'room...-an now Thornefiel) and all represent developments in Jane'character.
What will happen in Thornefiel?.First of all, in the beginning of the chapter 11,Jane is affected in the depths of one's soul by a loneliness and gloominess in George Inn at Millcote...nobody has gone to meet her

marta dijo...

María Jesús, and found Thornfield.., to be confineD to cooking..., dreamt.., didn't want to COME.., careful with the modal verb.
I do see that Jane has a bit of what you say though she is not exactly a feminist as she accepts all the rules that society has for women, but it is true that Bronte is pointing out the possibilities that an education brings forth. Of course when you are educated you see and wish for other perspectives. Jane is talking about this.

marta dijo...

Maite I agree completely, it is the first time that we see the mature adult talking to us, reflecting on what one wants in life and what life is. Of course she would think that life at Thornfield was boring, just think a country house in the middle of nowhere and with Mrs. Fairfax and Adele for companions!
And right you are in saying that hardships are good, I think we become stronger when we are able to get the better of difficulties. When everything is easy we are weak.

marta dijo...

Amparo, takeS place..,
You are very right, the story is that of somebody's journey in life. And you have mentioned the important places where she stops at in that journey. I like the idea you have put through..Life is that a journey to... we hope it'll be a nice place. Bronte talks about the way to Heaven, the straight and narrow, let's see how the good fare and the bad too

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Good morning

What do you think about first meeting of Jane and Mr Rochester?
I think is it not vey spectacullar, but very significative of the nature of the character, and very flashy. You can expect how is going to be Mr Rochester ans his relations with Jane by reading and imagining that scene.

Maite dijo...

Rosa, I have already read the chapter 13, and I don’t know if you are talking about the first time they met or the first conversation they had in Thornfield.
Anyway, I liked both of them. The fact that they met out of the house and Mr. Rochester was hurt because he had follen from the horse gives Jane the opportunity to speak without restriction. And I found the conversation between them inside the house very amusing. Mrs Fairfax's face must have been to be seen!

marta dijo...

Rosa, you expect how Mr.R is going to be..,
I really like the way they meet, I think it is original, in a path while she is resting and he falls off his horse, is that an allusion? I like it because we only guess it is him when he says I had forgotten the governess, it is grat when she goes into the house and sees Pilot. I think she is really surprised that it was him as she had no idea, he is in an advantageous position as is usually the case with men and in this case more so as he is much older and much more experienced than she is.

marta dijo...

Maite, must have been worth seeing..,
I agree that their conversation is nice, they are a match for each other, she speaking always the truth and he being so abrupt direct an even rude.
The meeting I agree is fantastic, here is a grown up experienced man falling before a plain inexperienced girl and then she helps him continue.
I fell for Mr.R too, he is attractive, insolent, domineering, charming, great. She is sure to fall for him, don't you think?

Mariana dijo...

Hi, I think there is a significant difference between their first meeting on the road and their subsequent conversation at Thornfield.
In the first, Mr. Rochester is the 'dependent', he falls off his horse and he needs help from another person. I think he feels angry and upset, because he isn’t the kind of man who likes to depend on others, much less of a woman. In my opinion, that first meeting is very unusual because it is always the man who saves the woman, but I like that inversion. In their second meeting, Mr. Rochester is the absolute master of all. His mere presence alters the normal order of the house, he takes back control, and we can see a self-confident, abrupt, arrogant and moody Rochester. I find this combination very attractive!

Maite dijo...

Although I’m looking forward to knowing more about Mr. Rochester I don’t find him very atractive. For what we have read, I presume he is too arrogant and I find the way he acts and speaks too harsh. Maybe, he was ashamed for the first meeting they had had and therefore his behaviour was worse, but it seems he doesn’t have very polite manners. I don't like this kind of man, but I understand you do.

marta dijo...

Mariana, much less ON a woman..,ON the 2nd meeting..,
A very good, sound analysis, I completely agree with you. I like what you say that usually it is the woman who falls and needs help and not otherwise. I wonder if that is because the author is a woman. Yes Mr.R is truly the master, he does what he wants, he rules over others and for me that is very interesting too.
How could Bronte have created such a man?? It beats me, honestly it does.

marta dijo...

Maite, he was ashamed because of..,
Indeed his manners are rude and it is sometimes shocking, specially disturbing is his frankness, but there is something attractive in the way he bosses people around and we have to bear in mind that men at that time were more domineering than they are today and if they treated people roughly it was not so strange and bad as it would be today.

Mariana dijo...

I think if Mrs Fairfax hadn’t said anything about Rochester's father and brother he wouldn’t be so attractive (attractive in the sense of wanting to know more about him or trying to understand his behaviour). I think Mr. Rochester at first seems a little rough, but Jane doesn’t feel uncomfortable, quite the opposite, and personally I prefer direct people even sharp.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

I agree very much with the person who said that Mr Rochester is the kind of person who doesn't like to be helped. We suspect a lot of things about him, now that we had known him: he is arrogant, proud, harsh, rude, impolite, sudden...Probably he has good qualities: probably he is strong, brave, self-suficient, and also intelligent; he has a very black sense of humour, but he has, and humor is very connected with intelligence; but we have only see the bad things, to the present.

I think he is going to have some things in common with Jane: none of them are atractive, both of them are lonely, passionate, stedfast, brave and intelligent. And nor Jane nor Rochester have good relations with their families.

We are going to see (or more likely, read) interesting thinks.

marta dijo...

Mariana, he wouldn't have been so.., even sharp ones.
Yes, Mrs F is convenient to find out about Mr.R. And have you noticed how interested Jane is??
It is true that she feels at easy with him, and it is quite something, as he is not really very nice.

marta dijo...

Rosa, we have known him.., for the moment.., neither J nor Mr.R..,
I think you have done a very good analysis of both, and you are right in saying that they have many things in common although one might think they don't.
They are also different and sometimes that is attractive to the other. Jane represents the establishment, after Lowood she is very much so. She is the product of the good English education. He is the contrary, there are many things about him that denote that he is not at all the conventional sort of man one would expect. He has had a lot of experiences, and a bit of a wild life too. I think they find each other interesting because of their differences, though I agree that there are many things they share.

Elena dijo...

I agree with Rosa, and I find that Mr. Rochester is a very impolite, rude and arrogant man.
During the first conversation between Mr. Rochester and Jane at Thornfield he doesn’t stop to interrogate Jane (as she were a criminal, a liar or an impostor).
Jane’s answers don’t satisfy him and he doubts all the time about Jane’s skills: at the piano (in fact he makes her playing a tune), at painting (she has to describe him in detail her sketches to demonstrate him that she is the author), etc. In some way he also ridicules Jane’s childhood at Lowood.
From my point of view, that is not a very kind attitude from Mr. Rochester, specially if he is interested in Jane.

Beatriz dijo...

In the second meeting between Mr R and Jane, Mr Rr needs to show his superiority and to recover his role –he is the master-; for this reason he is so interrogator and impolite. He wants Jane to be in her role as governess. If I were Jane I would not be very comfortable but Jane is accustomed to support everything. Her life gets on as difficult as always, nothing is easy for her. But like she is a fighter woman she will be successful.

Mercedes AV1-E dijo...

I agree with you on some points, for instance Mr. Rochester is rude and he has a sarcastic sense of humour, but on the other hand I think he is arrogant with Jane because he considers her a young girl who belongs to a different social class, she is his employee, he is a man who is used to ordering. I see him like an old man who wants her to say she is a young girl without experienced of life. I know that at the first view he seems unpleasant but I thrush we will change our mind

MARIANA dijo...

Hello, I think that Mr. Rochester doesn't have a sarcastic sense of humour, he isn't joking, he treats everybody like Jane. Moreover, he has hired Jane but he doesn't know her and he needs to make sure she is a good governess and she can play the piano, paint, etc. I see no problem to ask Jane for her life: nowadays people are questioned about their personal life, studies, references, etc. in any interview. And this is similar in Jane's case. I agree with you that Mr. Rochester is rude and arrogant but, don´t you think that he would be a little irresponsible "guardian" if he doesn’t make sure that Jane is a qualified governess?, regardless of his personal interest in Jane.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Good morning:

Even if Mr Rochester is the master, as he is, he should be more polite. Of course, so do I think that he treats like that all the people, not only Jane or the servants. He doesn't be nice not even with Adele, and she is supossed to be his daughter (or she could be).

I find very embarassing the way in which he asks Jane in the next chapter. But Jane can deal with him. Probably I wouldn`t bear that kind of conversation.
I think Jane's draws are most interesting. I have find I have in common with Jane more thinks that I though, because I make draws too, like her. And their thinks, I mean, the subjects of the draws are very fantastic, I'd really want to see them.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

I find most interesting many things about Mr Rochester character. I am still thinking he is not an atractive man, but very interesting. He is far away of being a good person, but he is not an evil man. He can be many things, but he is not a hypocrite, or a vulgar or ordinary person, or a sanctimonious, or prudish man. I think he is just the opposite of Mr Brocklehurst. Perhaps, Charlotte Bronte wanted to do a contrast between this two characters.

Mariana dijo...

I think the conversation between Jane and Mr Rochester in chapter 14 is a bit difficult and complicated. However, I find it very interesting because Mr Rochester is aware of his many faults and he wants to change that, or at least so he says. The fact that he tries to change negative aspects of his person is a good thing and this says a lot of him. I think it is very difficult to talk about oneself or on sensitive issues such as infidelities, even harder for an arrogant and proud man. That’s one of the reasons why I think that Mr Rochester is a surprising and strange man at the same time.

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

I agree with you, Mariana, altough I am not sure at all about if Mr Rochester really wants to change.
It's clear, he has had a very difficult life, he knows he had done things which are not good, but he feels that the world owes something to him, and, because of that, he doesn't have to change, it is like he thinks his sufferings gives him some liberties or privileges.

marta dijo...

Elena, he doen't stop questioning.., he makes her play.,
I agree with you it is not too kind, but Mr.R is like that and I do think he is interested in her, nobody would have paid so much attention to a governess, she is really a nobody.

Beatriz, J is accustomed to stand...,
Yes, though I also think she is interested in him from the beginning, she says: my traveller. Why should he be hers?

marta dijo...

Mercedes, without experience..,
I agree we are going to change our mind. I liked Mr.R from the start, his roughness is imposing but there is something about him that I find attractive. When he said that when he was young he was different, that he had a heart, so to say, one wonders... what has life done to him?
He is certainly a man not to trifle with...

marta dijo...

Mariana, I'm afraid that I disagree with you, I don't think Mr.R is very interested in Jane's competence as a governess I think he is or would be perfectly happy with Mrs F's choice, he trusts Mrs F. I think he is interested in Jane herself, he shows too much interest for an inferior, don't you think that the way he questions her about her paintings and his comments are not just the interest of the master? There is feeling in what he says

marta dijo...

Rosa, he ISN'T do doesn't go with to be.
When you say thinks, do you mean things or thoughts?
It is fantastic that you empathise with Jane, I think she has many things in common with many of us. Mr.R is rude but some men are like that, nowadays this would be terrible you just don't speak so to anybody.

Rosa, he is far from being.,,
A good analysis on Mr.R, no he doesn't seem a bad person though very rough and impolite, he acts well by others.

marta dijo...

Mariana and Rosa, two very true comments, I agree with both. I do think the conversation in chapter 14 is very interesting. Mr.R is saying what he was like and how life has changed him, I think he probably finds a solace in Jane's character, at least he says: I was like you...
One finds it difficult to imagine Mr.R at all like Jane, don't you think??

Rosa Advanced I dijo...

Good morning.

Don't you think that Mr Rochester is interested in Jane because she is not the type of woman that he has known? Probably, she is very different of all the woman that he has known in all his life. We know that Rochester didn't have a good relation with his father and brother, but I think we don´t know anything about his mother, perhaps she died when he was very young.

Perhaps he looks for her in all the woman that he knows...
Just think about Adele's mother... I think she is just the opposite to Jane...

marta dijo...

Rosa, she is different from other women that he has met.., he has been looking for her type of women among all those he has met..,
Undoubtedly is Adele's mother different from Jane!
I think Mr.R sees in Jane something of his own personality when he was young. I don't know, I think he is attracted to her because she represents what he likes deep down. He certainly feels something for her or so we think reading what he tells her at the end of chapter 15. Could anyone rewrite that passage? Or a bit of it?

María Jesús dijo...

I do think Mr.R. is interested in Jane because she is different from the rest of the women she had met. She is frank, natural and good listener. She seems incorruptible to him. Although she ins not very pretty, she is intelligent. They enjoy talking to each other.

After the fire, Mr.R. is fonder of Jane because she has saved his life and he is moved under the circumstances. And Jane is falling in love, no doubt. She finds herself prettier and healthier.She is living in a cloud but she is going to suffer again. She asked for. She doesn't like steelness and quiteness.Ahd she is going to find the experiences that Mr.R. has accounted to her.

As always, I enjoyed very much those paragraphs where Jane describes her turmoil of emotions.

And Ch.Brontë cachts again my atention because of the mistery round Grace Pool. What had happened bewteen she and the master?.

Mercedes AV1-E dijo...

Yes, at the end of chapter 15 is exciting and it contains a sensitive form to tell us about Jane's doubts from Mr.R's feelings, when she says: "I was tossed on a buoyant but unquiet sea"... "I thought sometimes I saw beyond its wild waters a shore, sweet as the hills of Beulah, and now and then a freshening gale, wakened by hope, bore my spirit triumphantly towards the bourne: but I could not reach it, even in fancy... and continually drove me back. Sense would resist delirium: judgement would warn passion. Too feverish to rest,".
We see, Jane’s feeling on the one hand, she has hope that Mr. R. tries to show his feeling to her and he falls in love with her and the other hand she is thinking there is something to prevent that love between them.
In my opinion these doubts could be it because she perceives herself inferior to his, she is a woman with a good education, and even I dare to say an aristocratic education but a servant in short.
So, in such a plight could she think that Mr. R. loves her

Ludi dijo...

Hi!

I think the last two chapters, that I've read (15 and 16), are amazing. I' ve enjoyed a lot while I was reading them because they are really interesing and exciing.
The fact that Jane saves Mr.Rochester's life is incredible, the doubts of Jane about the relationship between Mr. R. and Grace Pole, etc.
At the end, Jane shows us her felings, she is in love, and she is discovering new felings (love, jealousy...)

I agree with you, Mr. R. is in love too, and he enjoys spending his time with Jane. And now, he is indebted to her.
But, what happens with Grace Pole? Why is Mr. R. protecting Grace Pole? And when will he came back? Will Jane show Mr. R. her portraits?
I am very interested to know what will happen then.

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Wilkie Collins

Wilkie Collins