During the year 2010-2011 the A1s are going to read this novel written by Charlotte Brontë. We hope you'll enjoy it, please post your comments on the space provided.
16 de octubre de 2010
Suscribirse a:
Enviar comentarios (Atom)
Wilkie Collins
Quiénes somos
- EOIGoya_Inglés
- El Departamento de Inglés de a Escuela Oficial de Idiomas (EOI) "Goya" se suma con este proyecto de blog, con el blog de teatro y con su página de vídeos en YouTube a la explotación de las nuevas tecnologías como parte de la enseñanza de idiomas en la enseñanza pública en Madrid. Un cálido agradecimiento a CMF, sin cuya colaboración esto no sería posible.
Concurso 2007-08
436 comentarios:
«El más antiguo ‹Más antiguo 201 – 400 de 436 Más reciente› El más reciente»MªJesús, you point out something that is possible. What has there been between Mr.R and Grace Poole? What is hidden there?
I think you make a very good analysis of what Jane is like and what Mr.R likes about her.
I agree that after the fire he is a bit affected, but he is intense and that means that he feels something.
Mercedes, the end of chapter 15.., and on the other hand.., these doubts could be..,
Thank you for the quote, it reflects very well the turmooil she is in. I think she is beginning to realise that she is in love with "her traveller" and I like what you point out, that there might be an impediment, as no doubt there is as she works for him, she is not a servant, but women of with money did not work at that time. She is from a good enough family as she is Reed, on her mother's side but she has no money.
Ludi, I have enjoyed myself a lot..,
You have said what happens to all of us.
That Mr.R leaves now that he has practically declared his love for Jane is, to say the least, frustrating!!!!!!
Is it a tactic?? I wonder. Poor Jane is left at home pining for him and in a turmoil of feelings and doubts. One can't stop feeling for her and feeling her expectancy for his return.
When is he going to come back?? Mr. Rochester you are a devil!
Good morning:
I find very interesting the chapter in which Jane saves Mr Rochester of being burnt. Of course, is an inverssion of roles. And very symbolic, with lot of things that are not shown, or told but that you can imagine. The fire, the water, the nigth, the bedroom, the hysterical laugh... I think Jane is going to find out a suprising mistery about this house, because it´s clear that Grace Poole has something to do with that, but she not the main responsible about that...
Good afternoon.
I find very ineteresting the chapter in which Jane saves Rochester life. I think it`s very symbolic (the night, the bedroom, the fire, the water...), you can see in it more thinks that it tell. And also, we heve an inversion of roles. I liked it much.
And the Grace Poole staff... Although is clear she has something to do with the noises, and the strange laughs, she is not the main responsible, I am sure.
I think Jane is going to find out some incredible misteries...
Rosa, it is an inversion.., she is not the only person responsible..,
...you can see in it more things than it tells.., although IT is clear.., Don't forget the subject!!
I agree with both your messages. There are a lot of symbolic elements in the fire. Is Jane going to burn in hell? Or burn with love? Is passion bad?
There is certainly a mistery surrounding Grace. What relationship did she have with Mr.R? Well we'll have to read on...
Hello, I do not think that Grace is the only responsible, she is not worried about anything and when she is questioned by Jane she turns the conversation quite easily. I think she will be a key character because it´s clear that we don’t know the true relationship between her and Mr Rochester. I’ve found very interesting the self-imposed sentence to Jane on painting two portraits and compare them in moments of weakness, she tries to fight her own feelings and I think she is too hard on herself. I like the scene in the drawing-room and how since Mr Rochester enters in the room everything revolves around him, Jane is very aware of him: his movements, speech and the reaction he causes in others, I really like the sentence on page 174 'He is not to them what he is to me'. I wonder what word he wanted to tell Jane at the end of chapter 17.
Mariana, the only responsible person..,
A very good comment. There is something suspicious about Grace, isn't there? Why does she hold this position in the house?
I like that sentence too. She seems to detect a kind of union between her and Mr.R that nobody seems to have, she does think there is something that unites them. It would be lovely to have that feeling, specially if it is returned. I wonder too: what is the word, love?
Good morning.
Think about the scene of the party at Thornfield. Don't you think it's a bit like the beginning of the book, with Jane sitting behind the curtains and reading?
And the ladies and gentelmen... they are like Ms. Reed children. Well dressed and groomed, tall, distinguished... but stupid and umpleasant, and nasty to Jane. Altough they are able to sing, or to play the piano, they are not intelligent, or nice, because, altough they are adults, they behave like those spoiled and irresponsible children of the first chapter... I feel, also, very sorry for Adele, because she is trated like a pet...
Rosa, like Mrs.Reed's children..,
A very good point, you are right. Really Jane is telling us that that type of people is not worth it, she praises her own type and is against the higher classes. She portrays them as stupid vain and good-for-nothing.
The only one who is not like them though of their kin is Mr.R, she does say that he is like her, that they are the same. One wonders if it is not love, but....
This is food for thought for the week-end, do you think Mr. R is going to marry Blanche? Maybe he wants to marry well, or properly. I mean Jane is not suitable, let's face it, she is the governess and men of wealth and family did not marry their governesses.
Charlotte Bronte is criticising the upper classes but she has to be realistic...
Good morning.
Yes, that is very truth. The social conveniences didn't allow that the master could get married with the servant. But perhaps he doesn't really love Blanche, and only could want to marry her because the convenience, a man of the higher classes, at his age and without wife... this probably was not very good considerated.
A good point of Jane is that she has discovered that Blanche and her family was not as nice as she thought...she imagined Blanche was more beautiful than she actually was...
Rosa didn't allow the master to marry.., HE would only marry her for social conventions.., very well considered.., B. and her family were not...,
I think Jane realised that B was very beautiful, but she lacked good qualities, she had no heart and Jane realises she is mercenary.
Jane is not a servant, she is a governess, she comes from a good family, not the best of families, but a reasonably good one. Consider that her mother was a Reed. But she has no money and has to work for her keep.
A servant had no education, a bad accent and no family, not Jane's case at all.
However Blanche was undoubtedly more suited to become Mr.R's wife than her
Hello, I don´t think that Mr Rochester is going to marry Blanche, he doesn’t love her as he loves Jane. Mr Rochester would marry Blanche if he were a conventional gentleman, with the values of high society, but Mr Rochester isn’t that kind of man. He is too rough, frank and straightforward as to be a gentleman, although he acts perfectly in front of his guests. Despite belonging to different social classes I hope he choose Jane because the marriage with Blanche would be very boring although her beauty.
Hello! I have to say that my computer is broken,it's for that I have not written in the last fortnight.My sister borrows me hers now.
Weel,Mr Rochester seems a strange man.He is a complex character driven by his need to lead a double life.What I mean is I find him 'unplaced'.Mr. Rochester appears diffent sice he knew and spoke with Jane Eyre.
The novel is getting more and more exciting chapter by chapter.
These last two are very interesting. We knew already Blanche Ingram and the rest of the party and we know she is not worth at all and unpleasant with Jane and Adele.
Jane can't control her feelings and is aware of her love for Mr.R. although he hasn't looked at her since his arrival.
Now, Jane is analysing every scene in which Mr.R. and M.I. are involved and she knows very well Mr.R. can't love that kind of woman. In spite of the bad moments she is having a good time in someway.
The end of the chapter is very promising. What did the gypsy old woman say to B.I.? What is going to predict to Jane?.
Evidently, Mr R is in love with J and he is playing with her, but he is a mysterious man. After J has saved his life he disappears without any explanation. When he becomes he knows all about Jane’s feelings. When he leaves the drawing-room to meet J –because Jane has gone without saying goodbye-, he knows she is a little depressed: he had not stopped looking for Jane during the night but J has not noticed this; she is confused and Mr R is happy with his strategy thought sometimes this tactic is cruel.
Mariana, in spite of her beauty..,
Yes Mr.R is not a conventional man and it is true that one thinks he is capable of doing anything!I don't think he loves Blanche either.
Amparo, it is for that that I haven't.., my sister has lent me hers..,
A very interesting comment, do you really think that he is different since he has met Jane? You are probably right. That indeed,if it be true, would mean something!
MªJesús, what is she going to tell Jane?..,
You are right two very interesting chapters! I do think that Jane is head over heels for Mr.R. How well has he done his job! And he knows that she is completely conquered! How about him though?
Beatriz, although..,
I agree, Mr.R is sometimes cruel, but my God, his tactic has worked!
I agree with all the persons who think that Jane is in love with Mr. Rochester and although he seems to feel something about her too, he is undoubtedly playing with her.
The scene several days after the fire where Mr. Rochester does not defend the role of governesses or, at least, the important role and the fantastic job Jane is doing with Adele annoyed me. I would not have liked to be in Jane’s skin. Mr. Rochester completely ignored her and he made her feel bad and cry indeed. Mr. Rochester, who seems to be a very experienced person in love matters, should not play these games with an inexperienced woman as Jane.
Hi,
This afternoon we were discussing in class about Blanch Ingram's character, whether we can consider her bad manners because of she looks at Jane like a rival from her position with regards to Mr. Rocherster.
From my point of view, on no account does B.Ingram see to Jane like a rival, she is only for her an insignificant person, only a servant who she can forget, to ignore but it seems that this situation could be changed throughout the story.
Of course, Charles B. describes to her very well like a witch, so it is difficult to anybody feels attracted to her.
What is the real world of Mr.R?Is he happier when he is walking or talking with Jane about their lifes or when he is with his guests and the conversations are frivolous and the games so ridiculous?
How can he get two very different worlds at the same time? He is very peculiar, he can change his scenary easily but he is confusing Jane. Jane is afraid of being in love with him.
What is the real world of Mr.R?Is he happier when he is walking or talking with Jane about their lifes or when he is with his guests and the conversations are frivolous and the games so ridiculous?
How can he get two very different worlds at the same time? He is very peculiar, he can change his scenary easily but he is confusing Jane. Jane is afraid of being in love with him.
I agree with Beatriz, Mr Rochester has two very different faces. He is acting all the time with his guess but he is so intelligent that nobody realizes it. I think Mr Rochester can only be himself when he is with Jane. I see him a distrustful person and she transmits him security. Jane is very sure about her feelings for Mr Rochester, she is completely and irrevocably in love with him. But although he has shown some interest in her when they are alone, she thinks she has no chance with him.
Good afernoon.
Last nigth, I was reading the three next chapters of JE, and I just found them so interesnting that I just could't stop.
I am not to spoil it. I only want to see that, as Marta noticed, Mr Rochester is the devil himself. He puzzles me. I don't know if he is a god or a monster. Probably, he is one of the most complex characters that I have seen in a book. He looks in one moment an inteligent, sensitive, self-assured and reliable man, but, at the next, he seems so frivolous, so playful, so flirtatious... I'm sure, I never would love him -like Jane, who perhaps is not as intelligent as I though- but I think he is so interesting, so surprising...Probably, you never get bored if you would live with a person like him...
Merry Christmas to all of you.
Elena, you are right, he should have said something about the topic, but men are so. It is possible that he is playing with her to a certain extent. Let's see what happens...
Mercedes,on no account does B see Jane as.., describes her as a witch.., it is difficult for anybody to be attracted by her.
I agree, how could Blanche notice Jane? I don't think she did, only maybe she considered the fact that she was a single young woman a slight danger. But Jane was very plain, how could Blanche imagine Mr.R interested in a plain Puritanical looking poor governess?
Beatriz, how is it possible? But it is. Mr.R is undoubtedly an enigma, he seems interested in Jane and yet he disappears, I do think he is using a tactic with her. He is somewhat interested though, if not nobody would pay so much attention to someone.
Mariana, I think you put it very well. Do the rest of you agree?
Rosa, I'm very glad you liked those chapters. I do think the novel is very interesting and I completely agree with what you say about Mr.R, though I find him very attractive, not like you. That is probably why I am single I always fall for the wrong person!!!
Mr.R is very attractive, he has all the ingrediant for that, he is intelligent, good, perverse, playful, rich, attractive, does not fall for conventionalisms, etc. As I said: the devil in disguise.
Good morning and a happy new year.
I am very surprised with Mr Rochester. It would be impossible to get bored with him. He is unusual, not only because he does unusual things, but because he does them in an unusual way. I think that Jane and him are very similar in some thinks, but very different in other. They complement each other. Surely, we are going to see a very interesting relationship between them.
I am not going to spoild the next chapters, as I said, but I think that Mrs Reed is really a amazingly mean woman, without any good feature in her personality. I think the things she had done with Jane are simply tacky, and wicked, and Jane didn´t deserve them. Well, Mrs Reed got what she deserved, and had a suitable for such kind of person. Not even her daughters had pity for her.
Good morning and a happy new year.
I am very surprised with Mr Rochester. It would be impossible to get bored with him. He is unusual, not only because he does unusual things, but because he does them in an unusual way. I think that Jane and him are very similar in some thinks, but very different in other. They complement each other. Surely, we are going to see a very interesting relationship between them.
I am not going to spoild the next chapters, as I said, but I think that Mrs Reed is really a amazingly mean woman, without any good feature in her personality. I think the things she had done with Jane are simply tacky, and wicked, and Jane didn´t deserve them. Well, Mrs Reed got what she deserved, and had a suitable for such kind of person. Not even her daughters had pity for her.
Hello everyone!
This afternoon we are about to summarize chapters 19 and 21 in class and I think they are very important for the novel is getting more and more exciting.
The scene between Mr.R. (as a gypsy) and Jane is fantastic, at the end both of them were proud, Mr.R. because he thinks he has done very well the character and Jane because she has said nothing wrong.
I have many questions: What's going on in that inner chamber? How can Mr.R. leaves Jane alone with wounded Mr.Mason? Is Grace Poole insane?.
Besides, I can't understand Mr.Rochester's play. Is he in love with Jane or with Miss Ingram?. If she is going to marry Miss Ingram, he's been very cruel with Jane, don't you think.
Well, let see what happen next.
The last comment was mine. María Jesús
The character of Grace intrigues me a lot. Her appearances in the novel have been only a few but she has been supposedly involved in strange incidents: the fire in Mr. Rochester’s room and the bloody episode with Mr. Mason.
Who is she really and why does Mr. Rochester protect her unconditionally ?
Good morning.
I think that Mr Rochester really does love Jane, and he knows that she feels something to him, but he didn´t want to say it. He is testing her. And he is also playing with her. Is that because he is mean , or evil? Or just because that is his personality?
I don´t know, but I think there is a bit of each one. I think Jane is suffering, but not in a totally umpleasant way, I mean, she is not a masoquist, she is not like Helen Burns, but the doubts, the fears, the "he cares about me, he cares not...", I don´t know, but I think this is love, and the most pleasant one... Oscar Wilde said somethink like " to be uncertain is the very essence of romance", I don`t remember the exact words...
I agree with you Elena.I wonder what is happening on the 3rd floor.Why did Mr.Rochester tremble,disturbe...dismay when he heard of Mr.Mason's arrival?.It seems to me that Mr.Mason knows a lot of things about Mr.Rochester's life and another circumstances in his past.There must surely be some explanation
Hello mates!
I want to comment how interesting is getting the novel! There are some mysteries that C. Brönte has to solve…The "error" Mr Rochester did in the past, who is Grace? And, as Elena said, why Mr Rochester protects her…
I agree with Rosa about the play of love Mr Rochester is playing with Jane, but I think that even thought he is in love with her, he will never marry her; he has to marry with someone of his level and Jane knows it.
Good morning.
I find interesting the last posts, altough I disagree, because I think that Grace Poole doesn`t have any to do with Mr. Rochester past. Perhaps Mason does. He knows something, something which can be dangerous to Rochester, and he knows that. Did Rochester try to kill Masson, in order to preserve his secret? I don´t think so, perhaps this could have more dangers than benefits to him. Or perhaps he, in fact, tried to do it, but not by himself...He tried to make it looks like an accident, or something like that...
Anyway, I think that Grace Poole, as I said, has something to do with something strange who is happening in Thornfield, but she is not the main responsible, as I think I have said already. I think that Rochester is hiding somebody or something in the house... It makes me think about the stories about Linares' Palace and Raimundita, who, according to the legend, was confined by her parents in the cellar because she was not a legitimate daughter, or she was black, or her parents were brother and sister and they didn´t know till she was born...there are several versions of the story... Well, I think that Mr. Rochester secret is something conected with this...
I went to the theatre "Español" in which is represented "Beaumarchais".The play was written by Sacha Guitry,who does homage to the theatrical tradition and Beaumarchais too.
The performance of actors is rather good but the main character seems to me fantastic.I recommend to be go to see it.I liked it
After the last events at Thornfield J must be full of curiosity -who is Grace Pool, who has injured Mr Mason?-. She must see Thornfield as a dangerous place to live in but she does not ask any question and she obeys Mr R like a sheep. How can J bear it? Why is she retaining her quick temper? Certainly she adores him but this love has nullified her intelligence. Her feelings are blinding her thoughts.
Actually, it is not natural, she does not want to see it although she knows there is a mistery at Thornfield but she is afraid of the mistery and she prefers to play Mr Rochester's game. If she does not want to ask to Mr.R she should ask to another person as soon as possible; her own life could be in danger
I've just finished the chapter 21, which tales us away from Thornfield in a very exciting momenta, as a good novel always does. Thus we have to wait to know what will happen next between Jane and M.R.
Meanwhile, Jane has arrived to Gateshead, and she has found there her cousins as unfriendly as ever, and her aunt although she knows is going to die soon still very mean and inforgiving with Jane. So witch a woman she is that she didn't deliver Jane her uncle's letter and had said to him Jane was dead. It is incredible!.
And another thing that I wuold like to point out is that Mrs. Reed had been acted as bad while she was alive that not even did her daughters had cried when she died.
Today I have finished reading the chapter 22 and 23 and I’m no sure if I will be able to stop reading. I find both chapters very interesting. Mr Rochester has asked Jane to marry him, however his attitude is a little strange. How is it possible that in the same conversation he changed his engaged? Although I´m sure that he loves Jane, If I were she I would distrust his intentions, because I think it’s a very quick change. It’s possible that Mr Rochester was testing Jane’s reaction but he had already made the decision to marry Jane. I have some doubts about these points. I also think the book has much to finish, we still don´t know who is really Grace Pool, and Jane will continue suffering.
I am so glad you have been posting! And I agree with both your comments about Mr.R and Mrs Reed, who is certainly bad as she shows no repentance. She is punished as is her son John.
The essence of romance is uncertainty, O.Wilde. I think that is the quote
Your posts are very interesting, I wonder with Elena and Amparo about Grace and I think that Manuela summarizes all the thoughts very well in her comment, the novel is getting more and more interesting to be sure!
Beatriz has a point when she says that Jane is nullified by Mr.R. She certainly is, she does everything without asking questions, is it love? One can kill for love! or die...
MªJesús, not even did her daughters cry...
Mrs. Reed is truly bad as she shows no repentance, no pity, no fear in the face of death. I suppose that when is dying one would wish to leave this world on good terms with everybody but...
Mariana, we are getting to the climax of the story, so the wedding proposal after all but is he honest? Is he playing? I agree that one wonders... can we believe him???
Hi everybody,
It is a long time since I have posted but I would like to highlight Mr. Rocherster's character. All of the time he is playing with everybody, mainly with Jane, when she comes back to Thornfield and he seems to show her that he wants to marry with Miss Engrand, of course, he doesn't say on any time the bride might be M.Engrand but Jane understands that way, but on the other hand he pretends to be poorer than he is to Mr. Engrand, so he seems to play with the confusion and I think, he uses this is way by knowing the intent of these people.
This way he finds out Jane is honest and she always express her thoughts, for instance when she says to him: "Do you think, because I am poor, obscure, plain, and little, I am soulless and heartless?. You think wrong¡ I have as much soul as you.
I believe Jane is fed up with Mr. Rocherster's games
Mercedes, all the time he is playing..., to marry Miss Ingram.., he does this to find out the opinion of the others.., she expresses..
Thank you very much for the quote, I love quotes they are always enlightening.
I agree with you Mr R is testing the others, I think he wants to make Jane desperately in love with him and he is certainly succeding as your quote shows, she appeals to him, she says something that is very true.
I don't think she is fed up with him I think she is desperately in love and that is why she talks so.
Good morning:
To Mercedes' Post: perhaps Jane is a little fed up, but she can do nothing about that because she is in love with Rochester. You see, when you are in love... is like if you were not you...love makes people to do strange things, and to behave in a way which is not their normal behavior. And very often, when you are in love, you fall in love with the person that you shouldn't. Perhaps this is an example...because we know that Jane and Rochester make a non equal match (he is rich, she is poor, he is perhaps too much old for her...), and we know or suppose that Mr Rochester has not a very recommendible past. But, in other way...this wouldn't be love. Think about that not a long time ago, marriages didn't have any to do with love, and they are done by the families for political or economical reasons. Perhaps Jane knows that she is not who she used to be... and it's because she loves Rochester. Can she change that? Only if she doesn't love Rochester any longer...and if that happens, we wouldn't have novel...
Rosa, when you are in love IT is.., love makes people do.. and behave..., anything to do with.., she is not the one she used to be..,
Jane is certainly in love with Mr.R and there's nothing she can do about it. I don't think she is fed up with him. But we'll have to read on to see what happens...
Hi, I think Mr Rochester has been playing with Miss Ingram, of course with Jane too, but he is in love with Jane and the situation is different. Blanche is the woman who is used to give jealousy and Jane is the person who Mr Rochester wants her to feel jealous. But this is not a problem for Blanche. In my opinion she feels relieved no to have to marry Mr Rochester when she knows that he is not as rich as she believed, now Blanche can find another rich man to marry her.
Mr. Rochester’s way of seducing Jane is quite cruel. She is so in loved with him from the very beginning that there is no necessity for him to extend his tactic for so long. In several occasions Mr. Rochester has seen her loyalty to him, her suffering because of his indifferent attitude towards her, even she has cried in his presence. So make her believe that she would have to move to Ireland to prove her one more time is very cruel. And after his cruelty, Mr. Rochester dares to say that he is suffering because Jane is taking her time to answer to such an important and incredible question as if she wants to marry him.
I do not like the way Mr R treats J. although she thinks she is treated kindly by him. Is not she awared he is playing with her feelings? It is very unjust. He is in love with her but it does not give him the right to play with her and her feelings. He must be sincerous and tell Jane the mistery of Thornfield because she is trusting in him and he knows it.
J has a good heart; in fact no sooner does she know her aunt wants her to go to Gateshead than she leaves Thornfield. Mr R does not want J to go out so he tells J she is not in debt with the Reed but J thinks she must go.
Sometimes I think not only she is a good person but she has a lack of temper. It is certain too that Mr R has a magnetic personality and J is being strongly attracted. If she had a person to trust in he could advice J about Mr R, but it is not the case.
Amazing!!!
I have read chapter 23 and I am atonished and cheerfull because of the feelings that Jane can feel.
I think this chapter is really interesting and the atmosphere that the author have created to describe this fact is incredible. Maybe Mr. R can seem like a lady-killer, but if he had asked Jane to marry him directly, the chapter wouldn't had been so interesting.
I thought Mr. R was in love with Jane, and for the moment he wants to be her husband. I don't know what will happend in the following chapters but now Jane is enormously happy.
Mariana, I agree Mr.R has been playing with both Blanche and Jane, I think to make Jane very much in love with him and jealous. I suppose Blanche would not have liked to marry Mr.R now that she knows he is not rich, she is one for money, but that does not excuse his horrible tactic! However, they say that in love and war you can do anything.
Elena, she is so much in love with him...,
Your comment is perfect for me, you put it clearly and well!Mr.R is unbelievable!How can he tantalise her so and then beg for mercy for himself? I suppose men are like that I want I must have and I don't care about you or your feelings!
Oscar Wilde says in one of his plays in a conversation between two characters:
"Lady: Are all men bad?
Gentleman: Yes, all of them"
Beatriz, is she not aware.., he must be sincere...,
You make a good point when you say that Mr.R has a magnetic personality. It is true that she is drawn to him from the beginning.
Jane has certainly lost her capacity to resist, and I am sure that not having relatives is a drawback as there is no one who can give her advice, but on the other hand there is no interference from relatives..
Ludi, the atmosphere that the author has created..,
I also find the way he asks her is interesting and attractive but I don't think I am good at choosing men! I always fall for this type and it is the type that makes you suffer, just think of Jane's suffering!!
Now one must admit that now she is very very happy, no wonder after all he has done!
I agree with all of you, the way that Mr. R has chosen to ask her to marry with him is cruel, but I think that Mr. R wanted to be sure about Jane's feelings although I don't justify his manners.
Now, I don't understand Jane. I know she has a strong character and he defends her principles till the end and this is wonderful and admirable. But when one falls in love, this person wants to spend each minute of her/his life with her/his sweetheart. Why is Jane acting in this way? Does she have doubts about Mr. R? Does she think about Mrs. F advice? Does she want to take revenge on Mr. R?
Ludi, marry him..,
Mr.R wanted her to love him and many other things too, in my opinion, like wanting her to feel jealousy, desperation, dispair, defeat and finally victory. He has certainly made her brain work.
About your question I think that at that time relations were different. Men and women were not so much together, they had very speific and different roles. I think Jane was clever to try to continue as much as possible with her duties so that things would go on as usual. And also she really does know much better, I mean, what had she done all her life but her duty and follow norms? She couldn't do anything else. Did she ride? Was she interested in clothes and jewels and in making herself look nice? She couldn't even make conversation in public, she was a bore, I'm sure.
IMPORTANT FOR M/W groups:
THIS IS NEWS FOR THE MONDAY/WEDNESDAY GROUPS:
THERE IS NO LESSIN ON FRIDAY 28th JANUARY
THE LESSON WILL BE ON FRIDAY 4th FEBRUARY
Sorry if this may cause any possible inconvenience but I can't make it on Friday the 28th.
I agree with Marta that Jane is being clever keeping on doing her duties in Thornfield. I think that for the first time Jane is being rational and leaving her feelings for Mr. Rochester aside, something that she should have done a long time ago, taking into account how he treated her and played with her. However, this is very easy to say but extremely difficult to do: you make many stupid things and forgive and justify almost everything when you are in love, as Jane is.
Good afternoon.
Mr Rochester is playing a dangerous game, as Jane noticed, and as she said him. Of course, Blanche Ingram's feelings has to do more with money than with heart. But, even so, I think it's something which can turn against you (or Rochester, in this case).
Jane is going to marry him. But I'd dare to say she is not very convinced with this marriage, altough there is no question about her love for him. She doesn't want to be exhibited as a prize. She is just the little plain Jane (altough, I think she is not as plain as she tryes to convince us she is). Perhaps, she is afraid, she doesn't dare to be happy, or she is thinking that something bad is going to happen. The tree brocken by the thunder lighting, the strange aparition in Jane's room, her nightmares, her doubts and fears, Mrs Fairfax attittude to this wedding... I think this marriage is not going to have a happy beggining.
And the strange fact... You see, Mr Rochester has kissed her in her lips...and she is still calling him "sir"...even when they are alone...Perhaps, these were the uses of the time...
I agree with you Rosa, Jane continues using the name of Mr. Rochester instead of Edward, even thought when he askes it for her because they will marry, but later Mr. Rochester doesn’t say at any time to her that she should call him Edward, I think as you: it is strange.
On the other hand, today, we have been talking in class about Jane's independent character, when Jane says that she wants to be herself as the Mr.Rochester's wife, in my opinion she tries not lose her personality, I mind she is herself in all the novel, in other words: on no account does she permit to people who is around her to persuade her to make things o situations she considers unjust or not well done, we can see she is a rebel at that sense. Why does Jane break her personality because of her future marriage?
Rosa, Blanche's feelings have..., doesn't dare be.. is better.
..kissed her on her lips..,
No wonder Jane is afraid of being happy, she has no knowledge of happiness, she has never been happy until she met Mr.R.
I agree that there are bad omens as the ones you mention. The tree specially is horrifying and what about the aparition? Was that a nightmare?
Mercedes, she tries not to lose her personality.., she is a rebel in that sense..,
It is a pity we haven't talked about the question of the name, at that time it was normal to call husbands by their surnames but without Mr.
I think this is more of what you comment that Jane wants to preserve her status and personality, she doesn't want to be treated as a doll, as Celine was, she wants to be his equal.
As we commented Mr.R even finds being subdued by her attractive!
He admits she is his superior, to some degree, mentally.
Well and how do these crucial chapters strike you?? I'd love to know
Good morning.
Well, this is very strange... I don't want to spoil the novel if there is somebody who has not read the chapter of the wedding already...But I was thinking that Mr Rochester perhaps has somebody kidnapped into the house. We are going to know the truth. And what is Jane going to do?...
Rosa, kidnapped IN the...,
Yes, it is very strange but as you say you can't talk much about these chapters as some of the other groups are not there yet.
I think you have had quite a hunch. Yes the mistery is soon to be solved...
Rosa, kidnapped IN the...,
Yes, it is very strange but as you say you can't talk much about these chapters as some of the other groups are not there yet.
I think you have had quite a hunch. Yes the mistery is soon to be solved...
I will refer to the chapter 26
I couldn't imagine that Mr.Rochester was married and still less that his wife was a stark mad.As I was reading the chapter, I thought about Jane.What a pity! Now, that she felt as composed and happy as ever she did in her life. Poor Jane! And I wondered why on earth didn't he tell her that he was a married man? He should have been honest.Jane is mad about Mr. Rochester.The shock will be too much for her.
Well, I hope that after clouds the sun shines
Is Mr Rochester married?? Oh my God!! How is that possible? I haven't read chapter 26 yet but I'm really interested. I used to like Mr Rochester and I always thought that he really loved Jane, but now I'm very disappointed. I supose that in those days divorce wasn't possible, thus, the only way that he had to be with Jane was lying to her. It is not only that Mr Rochester hide his previous marriage, which is horrible, but he lied blatantly because occasionally he said that he was single.
MºJesús a very good comment, I am so glad you like the novel!I always say that you know it better than I. And that is quite something.
You are very good at literature too.
..as always I enjoyed...very much. The adv always at the end, ok.
No doubt Jane's life is more exciting than it has ever been and she has had a bit of everything, joy and suffering! What is really incredible is that such a woman as Charlotte Bronte was could create all these feelings and passion, these sensations that can be anything but calmness. She was undoubtedly great. This novel was a success, one can imagine the cold English feeling all these things!It must have been quite something!
Amparo, I wonder why on earth he didn't tell her...,
A good comment and well-written. No wonder you were surprised! Isn't it a shock???? Indeed there was something to hide! Well really one has to admit that Mr.R has balls to go over the limit!! Just think what that meant and what he wanted to do really. Poor Jane, what could be worse??
Mariana, a very good comment, read on fast as you have to discover for yourself. Mr. R was hiding something and he often said that he was a sinner and that he was terrible.
Oscar Wilde's characters have this conversation:
"Are all men bad?" asks a lady and a gentleman answers her: "Yes, all of them"
We have known the secret of Thornfield and I am quite surprised: Mr R is married to a mad woman, now I can understand why he is a tormented spirit. He has been playing a dangerous game with J and finally it has not worked. He has not been sincere with J because he does not want to lose her but J is a sensitive woman and she is not going to accept this situation. Despite of this Mr R has a good heart; not only does he marry to a mad woman but also he has to take careful of her since his wedding; another person would have left her. Like always J is quiet and she does not tell off Mr R. I can not understand she is not angry with him.
Did Mr. Rochester say he was single? I don’t remember it, may be we asumed he was a bachelor because of his behaviour. Anyway, I loved the mistery, everything makes sense now. I thought it would be something strange, because Jane was talking of the woman he saw after the nighmare as she were a vampire, and I’m glad I was wrong.
On the other hand, I don’t understand Jane. I’ve never been very fond of Mr. Rochester because I couldn’t undestand his game. But now we know he is a good person. He didn’t want to hurt Jane, but he was in a very dificult situation from which he couldn’t escape. His family arranged everything and he did his best to take care of her mad wife.
I know Jane must do always the right thing, but she could do an exception…
Also, I found it was incredible that Jane was worried about Mr. Rochester and not about her own future which is much more uncertain.
Good morning.
I agree very much with last postings, especially with Beatriz's one.
Altough his dangerous behaviour, his antecedents ( he is
a single father, probably, French mistresses, various flirts with Ms. Ingram and others...) we have the feeling that Rochester was a good person... or, at less, a not very bad one. He had Mrs Fairfax in the house, when probably she doesn't have another better place to go, and Adele, and he loves his horse and his dog... But this is too much, I can't understand why Jane is still loving him... Perhaps, because she hasn't had much love in her life, and Rochester, tough all, really does love her. And yet, I think I understand Rochester too. As somebody said before, probably there was not divorce at those days, there were not suitable institutions for such kind of persons, Rochester was cheated by Bertha's family... It is something terrible to have someone like that in your family. But probably to have her kidnapped into the house, and say all the people that she was dead, or doesn't exist, was not the best solution ...
Everything has been reveled in this last chapter and we can understand now why Mr.R. was so impatient and anxious. He feared that the truth would come out. He wanted to married Jane as soon as possible in order to consummate the matrimony and make it indissoluble.
I think C.Brontë made up a very intersting caracter in Mr.R.: he was good enough in taking care of his wife and everything and he wanted as well a piece of happiness for himself, he was desperated. And as you say, Marta, men do anything to get what they want. Although bigamy is something very bad, I feel sorry for him.
As for Jane, I feel sorry too, but my question is: What would have happened if she hadn't sent the letter to her uncle?. I didn't realize she did at last.
Regarding her principles, I think it would be worse.
Beatriz, he has taken care of her..,
One wonders if Mr.R has been so kind or on the contrary he has been cruel. The thing is Charlotte Bronte excuses him as does Jane! I agree how can she not blame himm????
There is no excuse for what he has done, in my opinion.
Maite, we took it for granted that he was single..
I totally agree with you, I am dying for today's class to talk abut it, but why did Jane not blame Mr.R? She is in love, but to that extent? Can love do that to us? It is terrible
Rosa, and say to all the people.., or didn't live..,
Yes it is difficult to understand Jane, one can only explain it through love.
Mr R has some good things, I agree, but how can we excuse him in this???? Maybe I am too hard with human weakness but.. honestly he has gone too far.
MªJesús, to marry.., he was desperate.., it would have been worse..,
If Mr.R had bedded Jane that only meant that she had lost her chastity and virgo but there would have been no marriage, he couldn't marry without divorcing Bertha first!!! He could have divorced, the Anglican Church permits divorce!
Bronte has done a good job, we excuse Mr.R and what he has done has no excuse, who is the real victim of this situation?? Let's talk about that in the lesson.
Good morning.
Poor Jane! Altough I can see that Rochester didn't do the suitable thing, I can't blame him so much. And no wonder Jane can't do the same: she is devastated, she is totally torn apart. She can´t think properly, she can't do waht is correct. I think I understand her very well. If I were her, I would want to die of pain and shame. She is angry, but not with Rochester, but with herself, because she blames herself of not seeing what was going to happen. She feels cheated, dellusioned: all her dreams have blown. I feel so sorry for her...She is miserable, she has had a terrible life, if we think carefully about that, we will realize so.
And also, we have there the explanation of Jane's visions. I think the idea of the mad woman breaking the veil is very good and is very well done, and written. She is like something who is coming between Jane and Rochester, and tearing the link between them...which is the same link between Bertha and Rochester. Very symbolic... Also, the wedding veil is something, I think, connected with purity (not only in the sense of virginity, and we suppose that Jane is, of course, a virgin), with innocence... and Jane is innocent, because she was not aware of what was going on... and she is not going to be like that anylonger. Altough she hasn't married Rochester, she indeed has lost her innhocence...
Rosa, you are absolutely right about Jane, what a blow!
If it happened to me I would feel ever so badly!
The only thing that I don't like about the whole business regarding Jane is the way she talks about or describes Bertha. She never realises that poor Bertha is a victim too.
Rosa, I agree with you about the symbolism too. You have put it very well the tearing of the veil both represents the split between R and Jane and even also between Bertha herself and R.
I also think it could be Bertha's way of expressing what marriage had meant for her: hell. Since at home she had a nice life but since she married she was put in a whole with no window with a guardian, etc. No wonder she turned wild and savage. The fact that she attacked her brother could also be a reaction for his not doing anything to help her!
I know that at that time mad people were considered differently and there was no medicine, but her conditions were horrible.
Yes, you are rigth.
But I think that Mr Rochester was not the only guilty. Berthas's family, for instance, cheated Mr Rochester. Of course, we know very little about Bertha, Charlotte Bronte didn't tell as much about that, but, probably, it was intended.
We only know that Bertha's mother was also a madwoman and a drunkyard, but I think that Mr Mason should had done something, before he was atacked by her sister, and not only go to the lawyer. I think that Bertha's family only wanted to get rid of her, and used Mr Rochester. No wonder he feels cheated.
And we have some racist implications about Bertha and her family. Anglo saxoons are very racist, and they were specially at the Victorian time. Bertha is seen as something degradated, and probably Bronte had the same thinkings about her, she is a Creolle, a Mestize...as you told the other day...
I think this is specially clear in Dracula, a novel which was written at the end of the Victorian Era. Dracula is an Exotic foreigner, but he is also the evil.
Perhaps Charlotte Bronte felt Bertha as something evil, too, for the English society and Rochester: therefore, she describes her as a devil, or animal, and makes us also to see her as something which is no human.
a
It is inhuman how Mr. Rochester keeps his wife Bertha, locked in a room without a window. Jane somehow seems to understand Mr. Rochester’s behaviour as when she sees Bertha she compares her with a wild animal. Who would not look like or act as an animal if being obligued to live in such conditions?
On the other hand, if I were Jane I would worry: if Mr. Rochester has been able to do something like that with his first wife (somebody he is supposed to have loved) he could do the same to her if, suddenly, something disturbs him or things do not go as he expected.
Rosa, Mr.R was not the only one to blame..., should have done.., the same thoughts/impression...,
Charlotte Bronte created a devil because she wanted us to excuse Mr.R and we do! She had a great success. Bertha in my opinion is a victim. All the families hide the mental illnesses of their members. Charlotte Bronte tells us Bertha is an animal, wild, savage and I think it is partly because she herself felt an antipathy for wives as she fell in love with a married man. She shows Bertha in a very bad light, and she excused Mr.R and J.
Elena, if something disturbed him or... did not go..,
I agree with you. We excuse Mr.R but my God he was cruel to Bertha, he despised her he showed no pity when he talked about her embraces comparing her to Jane. Of course a wife is an impediment if you fall in love with another woman and that is what had happened to him. However Mr.R has some feelings, he has done some good deeds but on this particular one it is hard to find a excuse for his behaviour.
Good morning every one.
I have seen that Elena is very rigth, she has seen something which I have not seen. If Rochester can do with Bertha...surely, he will be able to do the same with Jane if the thing get bad...This could be considered mistreaten.
Yes, if Jane would be who she used to be...she should be very worried. But love is like that. You fall very often in love with someone who you know is not good, or recommendable, to you. But you can't avoid. It wouldn't be love if it would be in other way...
I agree with all of you: Mr Rochester's behaviour has been horrible, but I have to admit that Bronte has convinced me!
I find Mr Rochester is a victim too. Never did he say he loved Bertha. When Bertha and Mr. Rochester married they hardly knew each other, he was a young man and as he was not going to get the family’s fortune his family obliged him to get into that horrible marriage and then it seems to me that nor his family neither his wife’s relatives helped him. I’m not saying he is totally innocent, but were I in a similar situation maybe I would have acted as he did. I think Mr. Rochester found what being in love means when he met Jane, and as Jane was blind I think Mr Rochester was blind too. Maybe he was really in love with Jane and he couldn’t think properly because he was afraid of losing her.
Also, I don’t think Mr Rochester’s manners with Bertha are an example of how Mr Rochester would have treated Jane if they had been married.
Or maybe I'm completely blind because I'm in love with Mr. Rochester!
Hi,
I agree with all of you, Mr. Rocherster don't have a good behaviour with regards his wife, and it seems to me that not only does Mr. Rocherster's family want to get rid of him but also Bertha's family of her , one of them for money and the other for shame, but it is amazing that Mr. Rochester does the same thing, Bertha and Adele were left on Thornfield.
I think: Thornfield seems to be a rubbish dump where he can deposit whatever person so later he will continue living his special life, and even he justify oneself saying he could not live alone, so he tried the companionship of mistresses, and after he abandons their.
I believe everybody tries to find justification about its conducts and it depends on people to estimate or no
Rosa, if the thing got to that is better... maltreatment.., if Jane were the one who... but you can't help it..,
Careful with the conditional: It wouldn't be love if it were not so.
Yes I see your point but I'm not so sure Jane sees that possibility, I think she doesn't blame Mr.R at all, I don't think she considers that Mr.R could do something like that to her. In a way she thinks that there is an excuse for his attitude to Bertha. Love is like that you quickly excuse the loved object and blame somebody else.
Maite, neither...nor...,
You are in love with Mr.R! I like him too, it goes without saying, and I see all your points which stand. But you are too good, some responsibility he has in my opinion. Young and moneyless he was but my God the way in which he kept Bertha was cruel and horrible, the way he talks about her! She is not an animal, but when she appears Jane was not sure. I know that mad people were treated so at that time but...
It is Bronte's skill that prejudices us, we are ready to excuse the unexcusable. And what about the brother? He says Rochester you will look after her, and he flies away from trouble!
My question is: Do men still act like that? Do they fly away from trouble? I mean regarding their wives...
Ludi, be careful and don't read all the comments in the blog. Otherwise your will find out many things too soon and we will spoil the surprising story.
Regarding to the comment which Mercedes wrote, although I don’t really find Thornfield is like a rubbish dump, I have to say that I imagine it as a hounted place. The picture in my mind is quite gloomy, and the chest-nut tree halved and dead doesn’t make it better.
Also, I agree Bertha has been put away from society as she were a monster who has to be hidden. But, on the other hand, I think Mrs Fairfax is living confortably and Adele is not being mistreated and she is getting a good education and love from Jane there in Thornfield.
Mercedes, Mr.R doesn't.., and he even justifieS.., he abandons them.., the object column after the verb, the me column.
..their conducts... to estimate it or not..
You bring us back to reality, Mr.R is a sort of victim too, you are right, after all men have to live as well as women and they need money.
A very good point about Thornfield and its name suggests something of that kind, I like the idea of the rubbish bin. It is very true Mr. R isolates his "problems" and he goes away to live his life with mistresses. The impact of seeing Jane dislodges all that. The only thing I am sure about is that he loves her dearly.
It happened something strange: I read the comments in the white screen where you add a comment and there I saw one written by Ludi and then I read the blog, the pink page, and Ludi’s comment is not there.
Anyway, yes, we haven’t talked at all about Mr Mason’s behaviour and it is even worse than Mr Rochester’s. He appeared, he saw the way his sister was being treated and he left! He did nothing and then he returned just to say Mr Rochester was allready married and he left again. I don’t know whether the men avoid troubles or not, but maybe Charlotte Bronte thinks so, because we haven’t met a responsible man reading the novel, have we?
Yes, Mayte, I think I have said that Mr Masson's behaviour to Bertha is not good at all. He said Rochester "Give her good cares" , but, when he saw the conditions in which his sister was living... he didn't do nothing, but go to the lawyer. If I were him, and I were concerned by Bertha's condition, I would take her out of there inmediatly. But the point is that he didn't. So, it confirms my theory: Bertha's family is not concerned by her, and only want to get rid of her and take advantages on Mr Rochester money. Although, I think they didn't have suitable cares for mad people at those times. In many countries (even in Spain), mad people were treated worse than animals, and this was not a long time ago. Even today, and, believe me, I know what I am talking about...
I think I have said too, already, something about Thornfield's name.
From my point of view Charlotte Bronte has created a two-faced character: Mr. Rochester is both kind and compassionate (we could see that when we discovered Adele was his daughter) and cruel and heartless at the same time (how he played with Jane’s feelings is nothing compared to the terrible secret hidden in Thornfield). But it is true that Mr. Mason’s behaviour is as inhuman and cruel as Mr. Rochester’s. Had Bertha been my sister, I would not have permitted that situation. I suppose that we will discover more things about the Mason Family and Mr. Rochester’s marriage in the next chapters. However, no matter what it is said there: I will not understand and excuse the treatment given to Bertha
Mr. Rochester did not initially reveal to Jane that Bertha Mason was his wife however in the chapter 27 he does coffess everything else about his shameful past but Jane is compromised by the situation in which Mr. Rochester has placed her.She forgives him immediately the revelation is made and knows in her heart she will love him forever.
Hi,
I am so sorry for my mistakes, I am really ashamed about them, they are mistakes of first course, I don't have pardon, my apologize; I am going to try avoid them.
Maite, I don't agree with you about Mr. Rochester's conduct towards Adele, of course she has a comfortable life but she doesn't receive any affection from her father. Mr. Rochester runs away from Thornfield, he hides two of his problems: a wife and a daughter, at no time does he tackles the problems, and he escapes.
This is my point of view.
Hi, after my last comment and my temporary disappearance on the blog I would like to say that when I read chapter 26 I decided to hate Mr Rochester until the end of the book, but after that, I read the next chapter and Charlotte convinced my weak mind and now I understand little better Mr Rochester, however his behavior with Bertha is inexcusable. Concerning Adele, I think that Mr Rochester doesn't treat her very well, but although Jane is more worried about Adele than her “father”, she doesn’t forgive that the child is a daughter of a immoral, French and catholic woman.
I agree with you Mariana, I think Mr Rochester remembers Adele’s mother when he looks at Adele, and he can’t help being a little bit too cold. But, at the same time, I think he loves her. I don’t see Mr Rochester behaviour towards Adele is cruel. She is not hidden at all, he wants her to be educated, he gives her presents because he knows she loves them and he lets her go to the parties he has at home. I mean, I don’t say he is a good father, but in my opinion he was brought up in a stern family and in a way he is under the influence of the education he had, and also having a child out of marriage with a French woman doesn’t make it better. But, despite all of this I think his feelings towards Adele are getting warmer. Charlotte has showed us a scene where Mrs Fairfax, Adele and Jane where together and Mr Rochester was pleased. I don’t remember it very well, but it seemed to me it was not only Jane but the whole group that he liked.
Or maybe I’m completely wrong, because as I wrote in another comment Charlotte has done a great work and I’m convinced Mr Rochester has to be excused, and he is a good person … deep inside.
Maite, something strange happened..,
You have to click on EL MAS RECIENTE, because now we are on the second page. Then as usual.
You have a point about men and Bronte's vision. Well I suppose that her models were her brother Branwell, who was wild and similar to John Reed though the sisters loved him. However I think that she excuses Mr.R. She finds there is something good in him, what he did was because he was cheated and out of love. In chapter 27 we do simpathise with him, all night sitting at her door... Will you forgive me, Jane...Reader I forgave him on the spot. And we do too.
Rosa, he didn't do anything.., I would have taken her out.., Mr.R's money..,
What you and Maite say about Mason is true, but he was a weakling and the responsibility was the husband's. I also think that it is true that in those days mad people were treated as animals.
Elena, nor can I but we have to consider that at that time that was normal, we are in the 1800s.
Amparo, you hit the nail on its head! A very good comment. Jane knows that she will love him for ever!! This is true love.
Mercedes, don't feel so! You are here to learn and practise. Mistakes are good in that if you are aware of them you can correct them. I am glad that you make mistakes because not only do you improve when you correct them but also the others. Here you all learn from each others mistakes. And sometimes they are printing mistakes, I have reread some of my comments and there are mistakes too, and it is because I write very quickly. So don't worry at all.
I agree about Adele, it is an important point, Mr.R only has love for Jane, none for Adele, but at that time too, children were not treated as they are today, least of all in England.
Mariana, you like the rest of us is caught in Mr.R's charm and there is no hope for us, we forgive him too!
Jane is kind to Adele, I think she forgives, but it is true that she has what you say at the back of her mind.
Maite, Mr.R's behaviour.., deep down...,
You are right, thought I doubt whether love is the word to describe Mr.R's feelings for Adele. I think it is duty or pity that moves him, they are good feelings enough but love....
Hi,
How amazing is the chapter 27 ¡¡¡¡
I would like to highlight some different points, on the one hand I observe Jane has a strong sense of dignity, she can choose between to be Mr.Rocherster's mistress and this way she might live with her love, or to do her duty, it is symptomatic when she says to him: "I advise you to live sinless, and I wish you to die tranquil" so in Jane's mind is always fix the idea of duty.
On the other hand, Jane is not submissive, I will dare say she is a feminist when she says: "Hiring a mistress is the next worse thing to buying a slave"
Good morning.
Poor Jane¡ She is wandering alone, without friends, or relatives, without a home or money... She is like that little girl lost in the wilderness, in a fairy tale... And the two girls that she finds in the house...they are talking in German. Fairy tales (and horror tales) were invented by German, and Jane' story has much of fairy tale and horror tale.
And yet... I believed Jane an intelligent girl... and I don't think what she has done could be very intelligent...well, I suppose she was so alterated that she didn't know what she was doing. To go away whithout money or lugagge, because she has forgotten her things in the coach...Perhaps Bronte wanted to say something special without.
What do you think about Mr Rivers? He seems much more handsome than Mr Rochester, and more likeable, perhaps even better...but no so interesting...
Never did I think this would happen to Jane: She has lost everything. Poor little girl! It would be said that Jane has descended into hell.
May God save Jane!Although,perhaps it mihgt be the beginning of a better situation in her life.
Hi everyone!
I´m so indignant! Why did Jane forgive Mr. R. after all? I can´t understand. When I was reading the pages where Jane forgive him, I always thing only in one thing: Jane is absolutely fool, I mean, even if she is totally in love with Mr. R. she must wait to forgive him. She is showing him that she can do everything for him, and I think it´s a very danger thing, in fact I think the worst thing women can show men is that kind of feelings.
I would like to say that the chapter 28,in my opinion,has a great resemblance with certain fragments from the Bible,for example the chapter 2,5 and 2,16-17 of Hosea- prophet-.Jane is driven to desert in order to be found with herself and God.
In the messianic renewal of the world the barrenness of the desert will turn to fertile blossom.
In fact,Jane finds four kind-heart and Jane'life will be happy.
I hope so
Yes, Amparo, you are very rigth.
All the book is plenty with biblical references: when Jane is asking for some food to the girl who is feeding the pigs, she is a bit like the Prodigal Son. And when she is following the dim light, she is like the Israelites in Exodus, when they were following a smoke column during the day, and a light and fire column during the night.
Hi Amparo,
You have pointed out something interesting, I didn't take this idea into account, but you are right, it is so important, religion is always present in the entire novel.
Hello,
Your comments about the Bible are very interesting but I would like to talk about Jane’s departure. I think she has done very well deserting Mr Rochester although she continues loving him, don’t you think?
Talking about religion, one of the worst sins is the lie, above all in Anglo-Saxon world, but one of the largest Christian virtues is the forgiveness. Jane forgives Mr Rochester but at the same time she can’t be with him. I think Jane is as intelligent as always, however she has a strong principles and she can’t be the mistress of a married man. This is a very brave decision because she leaves Thornfield without money, relatives, and almost without luggage. Not everyone can do that.
Mercedes, between being.., the idea of duty is always fixed..,
Two very important quotes, I agree with you she is concerned with the dignity of women, it is a powerful image that she puts forward! slave versus mistress it makes one think...
Rosa, I see it as you, a fairy tale all over. Well, Mr.Rivers is definitely a handsome man, and kind as he took her in with his sisters' acquiesence, but we'll have to see. Jane is so much in love with Mr.R that one wonders if she is ready to fall for another man, and how about StJohn? Is it likely that he will like her?
Amparo, I am so glad the novel has surprised you! It is a very good novel with all the ingredients I told you it was very good! Well done no mistakes!!
Mónica, I'm so angry!.., Jane forgives him.., a fool.., think of..,
Well you yourself answer the question. Jane is in love. We know she forgives him because she tells us: Reader I forgave him. But Mr.R doesn't know as she says nothing to him. Don't you think that we are too lenient with men and we easily forgive them because love is so??? Nowadays would we do it too or not? What do you think?
Amparo, a very good point. There are a lot of Biblical references in the novel and as you say that is one. She finds the four kind-hearted people after her sort of rebirth in the wilderness as you say.
Rosa, full of Biblical..,
Yes, interesting comparisons and definitely true.
What Mercedes says is nice, you see how the book becomes more interesting with all the things you see in it??
Mariana,..is lying... the Anglo-Saxon world.. forgiveness (no art if we talk about smth in general).., she has strong principles..,
I agree that Jane is brave and she is capable of saying no to what she wants more. Now I wonder if we would be able to do so but life is in a way learning to say to no to many things. She is strong and can do it. It must have cost her a world, no wonder she was so depressed! She also prays for him, that is wonderful too, don't you think?
Well, I see you are all sort of cold after the turn the novel has taken.
What do you think of StJohn Rivers? A handsome man....
Good morning.
Yes, Marta, a very handsome man indeed... but cold, as his country, and probably stern and not satisfied with his life.
I am afraid he is nor going to be as interesting and controversial as Mr Rochester. You see, may be we don't like him... but we talk a lot about him. Probably, that means something...
Well, I’ve just met St. John Rivers and I don’t know if he is a handsome man or not.
I have finished the chapter 28 and I know very little about him. At least he seems to be a good person, because he provided Jane with food and a shelter. But, I think he is a very stern man too. Can’t Jane find a gentlle man?
I understand he had to know something about Jane before letting her stay, but Jane was wett, starving and really tired and I don’t think he could look as a dangerous person, so when I was reading the end of the chapter I felt he was too tough: when Jane was given a piece of bread with milk he ordered his sister to stop and he started making a lot of questions.
I prefer the first meeting between Jane and Mr. Rochester.
I think Mr. St John is a handsome man of course, and probably Jane could love him, but I think Jane is not prepared to revive new feelings. She only wants to be independant and to start a new life.
The family seems nice, at least they have offered shelter and food to Jane, although Hannah, the servant, doen't trust her because of her appearance, so the author shows us the difference between people.
It is curious that Jane wants to keep secret the same as Mr. Rocherster made to her. When Mr. Rivers asked her about her friends or her last reside, and she answered to him that she couldn't say anything because it is her secret,but Mr. Rivers' sisters stand by her.
This family helps her, but they need to know about her, it is normal, from my point of view it is rare Jane's answer, I know she can not say about her last time, but I consider that she could be more polite towards these people who try to help her.
I'm sorry, I make a mistake, I want to say: these people who tries to help her
I'm sorry, I want to say: I have just made a mistake. (I hope can be the last one¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡)
Marta, you asked what we think of St.John. Well, I have to say I don't like him very much. He is the opposite of earthy Mr.R. That caracter of St.John so could, distant and stern annoyes me very much. Although he saved Jane's life and is tireless in his duties as parson and that he has been described as handsome and with almost perfect features, I can feel like Jane that he has a soul that torments itself and has not peace. Besides, I am scared od his sermons, as they are described. They remember me the ones of my own childhood.
As for Diana and Mary. they seem very nices and the best to be Jane's friends, with the same tastes and aims. It is the first time Jane has friends of her age, education and gender which is very nice. She is quite happy with them and it seems she doesn't think of Mr.R. anymore.
Marta, you asked what we think of St.John. Well, I have to say I don't like him very much. He is the opposite of earthy Mr.R. That caracter of St.John so could, distant and stern annoyes me very much. Although he saved Jane's life and is tireless in his duties as parson and that he has been described as handsome and with almost perfect features, I can feel like Jane that he has a soul that torments itself and has not peace. Besides, I am scared od his sermons, as they are described. They remember me the ones of my own childhood.
As for Diana and Mary. they seem very nices and the best to be Jane's friends, with the same tastes and aims. It is the first time Jane has friends of her age, education and gender which is very nice. She is quite happy with them and it seems she doesn't think of Mr.R. anymore.
When I say that is the first time Jane has friends of her age and gender I mean as adult.
Rosa, maybe..,
Yes I think that we will talk about him a lot!!
Mercedes, what Mr.R did to her.., Jane's answer is rare..,
You didn't make a mistake, it is "these people who try to say..." people needs a plural verb!! It is funny you corrected what was right!!!
You make a very good point. Jane is hiding something just like Mr.R but she does say the truth to a certain extent, in that she says she can't say the truth and she wishes to keep quiet until she may.
MªJesús, they remind me of..., they seem very nice..., adj in sg.
I couldn't agree more, I feel StJohn is too cold and could even be cruel, handsome he is but terrifying in his beauty.
I agree too about Mary and Diana, they match Jane to perfection, they empathise, they are kind and well-educated. To a certain extent the counterpart to their brother...
Is StJohn capable of feeling? I doubt it a statue that he is!
As far as I am concerned St. John is not capable of feeling, as you have said. But, I’d rather wait and read more about him. Maybe it is too soon to say so, he has just been introduced.
On the other side, I have to admit that I don’t want to read about a love story between Jane and St. John, I’d rather she was alone. Therefore, if St.John is not handsome I don’t really care. In fact, I’d prefer St John not to be kind and gentle so that Jane should think about hershelf and not about another man. As we have read, Jane is an independt woman, but her late behaviour is been too related to Mr.Rochester's feelings. I want to see the girl who fought all the way. Well, I don’t mean I did not enjoy the love story, because I did.
Good morning:
As you well said, Mr Rivers is as beautiful and cold as a sculpture. He is too much perfect. Perhaps Jane (and Charlotte Bronte, of course), loved the imperfection, because the imperfection is human, and perfection is divine, and, therefor, unreachable.
I have found an interesting web page about Jane Eyre
http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/bronte/cbronte/bolt1.html
Hi,
Rosa thanks for the link, it seems very interesting.
Talking about St John's I think his character is very important for the development of the story. In my opinion the author wanted us to compare the apparent perfection of St John, who can’t feel anything except his religious fervour, and the imperfection of Mr Rochester with his temperamental behaviour. Despite knowing the dark side of Mr Rochester and all his mistakes, he is better than St John, because Rochester is alive, he can feel, he can love and he can move you. St John can't provoke those feelings.
The class yesterday was fantastic. I enjoyed it a lot. The novel is getting more and more interesting everyday and the discussions too. I insist on my opinion: I cannot excuse Mr. Rochester and I don’t like the comment: ‘love justifies everything’ or, coming back to the novel, as Jane is deeply in love with Mr. Rochester it is understandable that she forgives him. I find this attitude dangerous in some way: Where is the limit then? How much would anybody have to stand and forgive because of love?
Yes, you are very rigth.
In fact, I think that Charlotte Bronte wanted to do a contrast between Mr Rochester and Mr Rivers. I think Mr Rivers is just the oposite to Mr Rochester: one is handsome, the other ugly, one is religious, the other, amoral, one is cold, other is passionate, one is stern, other indulgent, one is a clergyman, the other, a sinner... and probably we could go on, and on...Probably, both them are very significative. Perhaps Charlotte Bronte wanted to portrait two different ideals of man...
Maite, on the other hand.., behaviour has been..,
Yes it is nice to have Jane back, in a way she was, not completely, annulled by Mr.R she disappeares in his presence, he fills everything so much! But I suppose there is a bit in love, some people merge, others dissolve in the other and I think Jane is a bit like that. Deep down, though she rules over Mr.R, don't you think?
Rosa, he is too perfect.., loved imperfection..,
You are right, I also think Bronte wants to say that beauty is not everything, neither for men nor for women. StJohn is perfect, or he seems so, for we know he is too strict..
Mariana, I couldn't agree more!! StJohn has only religious fervour, he is a fanatic and that is dangerous!
Rosa thank you for the link!
Elena, thank you for your comment, I agree the discussions are getting more and more interesting and you have improved as now most you are able, I mean all of you, to discuss about the novel as adults, with interesting ideas and defending your points of view well.
I agree with you that there has to be a limit, but not for Jane, her love is ready to excuse everything. I do see that we often excuse the loved object or judge him/her in a leniant way. Don't you think that we are readier to forgive a person you love than a friend?
But I feel that maybe in my case there are certain things that I wouldn't forgive, for example if someone was unfaithful to me. But this is easier said than done. Mr.R is not unfaithful, on the contrary he is faithful to his love for her, in fact too much so.
Rosa, I see your point, but I also think that StJohn has a very bad sin, arrogance, pride and haughtiness. That was the sin of the fallen angel. I don't think StJohn wants to be more than God, but he certainly thinks he is better than the rest of humanity. He solves the problem of his pride in himself in a positive way: helping others, but I think Mr.R's faults are excused more readily than StJohn's.
Goof morning.
Yes, that is true. You see, I think this is a bit like the story of the Pharisee and the Publican in the Bible. You know :"Oh, Thank you, God, because I am better that the other men...etc..".
You can love easilier an imperfect person, an "anti-hero", than one who thinks he (or she) is very good...
After reading the 28th chapter I didn’t want to judge St John, because I hadn’t read very much about him. Now that I have read the 29th chapter too and I have seen the way he is acting I’m not giving him another chance.
I specially hated the comment related to the kind of help he was able to offer. I mean, Jane had said she wanted any job they could find for her, and he answered: “if you are inclined to despise the day of small things, seek some more efficient succour than such as I can offer.” What a …!
On the other hand, It is Jane’s attitude against him that I like. It looks that she is neither afraid nor ashamed. She is asking for help, but she is not telling St. John more than what she wants to tell. She is looking straight to those inquisitive eyes and speaking frankly and clearly, although it seems to me it is not easy at all.
Rosa, I agree, he is a bit like that.
Maite,...straight at...,
You have grasped him. I like the quote, it is so perfect to show his character! He is so hard! On himself too, but I think these people are very dangerous. So far StJohn manages to help others but one forgets that he is a superior and I don't like that.
Good morning:
This is a link about Jane Eyre in films.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/movies/06eyre.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
I hope you would enjoy it.
I would like to say I agree on all your opinions about St.John.
He appears like a puzzing man.At the beginning he aroused a feeling of approval,of affability into us...he saved Jane from death,I even thought he could have married with Jane, but now he is not liked by anybody. It is obvious that we love the which Jane loves...and she follows in loving Mr.Rochester
Amparo,..he could have married Jane,..we love the one who Jane loves..,.. she continues loving..,
A very good comment, you are becoming more confident, I can see that.
You are right, we change our opinion about him in two seconds, it is obvious that there is something wrong with him... we all detect it, and we can't all be wrong!!!
Thank you Marta. I wish I got to be more confident in order to improve my writings and get fluency to speak
Amparo, I'm sure you will, it takes time and hard work but you will. It happened the same to me, if I did it, it is because I worked and practised a lot, it was hard but it is very rewarding1
For those who are interested, I post here one of the links where you can find, amongst others, the free audiobook of ‘Jane Eyre’:
http://librivox.org/jane-eyre-by-charlotte-bront/.
I encourage you to listen to it. I find very interesting that the chapters are read by different persons, so you get used to different accents and rhythms. Maybe at the beginning you only catch a few words (it happened to me), but with some time and patient you will realize that you finally understand more and more (of course, having read the chapter before helps a lot).
Thank you very much for the link.
Talking again about Jane, is a pity that she has pent only a very short time with her new friends, Mary and Diana. And about Mr Rivers...he is a good man, but she is not a nice man. There is something very pesimistic and fatalistic about him and his way of conceiving religion. You see, some parts of protestant religions are very pesimistic, with its beliefs about predestination and faith. Some people believed (and believes) that God hates men because they are bad, and then, He punishes them, other people felt that, if you are going to go to hell, you will go to hell, even if you are good. God's will is the only think that can save you, and your faith. In the Catholic Church, what you need is repentance and good deeds: in Protestant Churches, good deeds are not necessary, although you should do them, because its no need is not an excuse for not doing them. I think that Mr Rivers is a bit just like that. He is charitable, but in a cold way, and he is fatalistic, because religion is somthing very serious to him, and not very hopefull, because he probably thinks that men are entirely under God's mercy and they can't do nothing about that.
I agree it is a pity that Jane has spent such short a time with Diana and Mary. She had found great friends, as she did in Lowood when she met Helen Burns, and now she is alone again. Well, St. John is with her, but I wonder if it would be better for Jane to be alone. Jane must be a really strong person to be with him and not be totally depressed!
Elena, patience..,
Thank you very much for the link. It is a very good thing, I am glad you not only have looked for it but also for your comment as it is the proof that what I said is true. Please everybody follow Elena´s advice you will be very glad!
Rosa, it is a pity.., some people believed and believE..., the only thing.., because the fact that there is no need.., they can't do anythinng...,
Not a bad analysis of StJohn's character. I think he lacks mercy in a way, he acts out of a wish to do and be good but not because he truly feels so. He is too hard on himself and I fear probably on others too. His comment about Jane's appearance is rather mean, isn't it? I fear that he is intense and has nnt found the solace of religion.
Maite, so short a time.. or such a short time..,
I agree with you, it must be quite something to be with StJohn! One thing I have to say for Jane is that she is not weak!!1
I’m sorry, I was trying to use the inversion with such or so, but I think I really did’t get it. I will try again in my next comment.
I just finished chapter 31 that I liked very much. Although it's short it's very intense.
I always enjoy very much those chapters with a lot of reflexions and feelings' descriptions like this one.
Here we're again face to face with Jane's puritanism and strong principles. In spite she feels lonely and misses her master she thinks she was right in leaving him. That explanation is fantastic.
It is this chapter that explains more deeply St.John's character and contenance. Firts of all because he explains to Jane how he realized his calling to be missionary. And secondly when the gorgeous young lady turns up. I recomende you to have a look at the last paragraph on page 360, where Jane realizes he conceales love and passion for this wonderful girl.
Hi, I also think this chapter is very good. I like Jane’s reflection on her hypothetical life if she continued with Mr. Rochester and I agree with her because I have always thought that Jane made the right decision: to leave Mr. Rochester even though she loved him above everything. About St. John I think that the more I read about him the more I dislike his character. How can he be so cold with everyone? especially with Miss Oliver, she seems very nice and I think he is in love with her, but he is so distant… I like the description of Diana about him: “inexorable as death”
Maite, with such it is like as with the negative advs. With so it is the same and so: so beautiful a woman...
MªJesús, I liked chapter 31, which I have just finished, very much.., the adverb at the end.
In spite of her feeling lonely and missing...,
A very good comment, I always enjoy what you say, not only because you are good at analysing and always provide some interesting comment, but also because you know the novel so well that it is a pleasure to talk to you about it.I will certainly follow your advice
Mariana, a very interesting comment. Thank you for posting Diana's comment it is very good. It is a pity St.John is as he is, he must suffer a great deal, it is horrible to be so worthy of pity is he! Religion is something fantastic but it can also be something terrible if you see it as StJohn does. StJohn in love! How stupid of him not to follow his heart! Well in a way he was following his heart too, I suppose...
I am reading the chapter 32 and I am amazed about Jane's feelings towards Rosamond, suffice it to say that I am sure she is in love with Mr. Rocherster if not I will think she falls in love with her, Jane's description is perfectly of whom sees only marvels about her, even she said that she likes Rosamond almost more than likes Adel.
On the other hand, it seems to me it is clear Miss Oliver is in love with Mr. Rivers, when she is talking to Jane about her character and she says that Jane is like Mr. River, but.....Mr. River is an angel, she is absolutely love with him, it is clearly a declaration of love.
Good morning.
This two chpaters have been very interesting. Now, we know Mr Rivers' personality a little bit better. Altough he is not a sympathetic character, I feel a little sorry for him. He loves Ms Oliver, but he doesn't want to love her, because to marry a rich heiress is not among his plans: he wants to become a missionary. Like Jane, he is figthing against his feelings. Jane could be as cold as him, if she were not so appasionated, if she restricted more her feelings.
We have known some nice female characters in Jane Eyre, like Diana, Mary, Ms Temple, Helen...but this is the first time that we see a woman who is nice, beautiful and rich. Jane admires her, because she is beautiful, and she doesn't hate or envy her, and she could do that. That means that Jane is generous. But I think that she is a little mean when she compares Mr Oliver with Adele. Come on. Adele is a little girl, and Ms Oliver an adult woman. Perhaps she is a little superficial, and fancy, but she is a good woman: she wants to help poor girls, she is aware of Jane's mental superiority, and admires it... Perhaps Mr Rivers doens't want to love her because she wouldn't be a suitable wife for a missionary. Altough he would ask her to marry him, and she would say yes, I think she wouldn't go to India with him.
Mercedes, an interesting view. I had not thought about that possibility! I think Jane admires beauty because she has it not. I suppose we all do, don't we? Beauty is an asset an those who possess it are always looked up to by the rest of us who are not so gifted.
I agree with you too that Miss Oliver is in love with StJohn and as is always the case with people who are in love, those around can tell that it is so. Love is something we can't hide, don't you think?
Rosa, these 2 chapters..,
Please, put the adverb at the end of the sentence, not before the object, ok?
A very good comment, and I think you have understood the state of things perfectly.
StJohn sees that Miss Oliver is not adequate for a missionary's wife, I fear. But let's see what happens maybe love is stronger and he changes his mind. I agree with everything you have said.
The chapter 31 is short but we can notice on it a great descriptive and emotive richness.For instance,when Jane expresses her sensations about her new situation or her description of Mr.Rivers and his meeting with Miss Oliver.
What a wonderful chapter!
At the beginning Jane appears to me a little elitist woman,on the point in which she felt downgraded from level personal and social by teaching rudes girls.However the best teacher are those which are descended in order to exalt to their pupil.
I know,I know rude is an adjetive,for this reason it is without -s. I am sorry
Amparo, we can notice in it..,
.. a little elitistic...
Adj in the singular you mean I think couth girls.
...the best teachers are those who can make their pupils excel in spite of themselves and their higher educational level.
Don't complicate yourself saying things that are not said easily. First you have to be confident in the way you write and then you can say whatever.
Persevere it pays, you have improved a lot.
I found very interesting in this last chapter the conversation beetwen Jane and St.John. She is a great observant and very brave in telling him he is in love with Miss Olivier and that she is in love with him too. It is important that St.John speaks openly for the first time about is feelings and that he says which are his real matters regarding his life. He thinks and scorns the passion he feels because of his ambition and high prospective task.
We could discuss about men and how they manage love an feelings. It seems to me that for them LOVE is something secondary, always after other "important matters".
Good afternoon.
Yes, I agree very much with Maria Jesus' post. Jane is not only wise, but very brave, and daring, and even bold. I don't think that many women, as those times, were able to talk to men in such terms. She knows exactly what is happening to him, and she can tell it using the exact words. And she has no fear. By the other hand, I think that Mr Rivers doesn't know very well women, or he doesn't want to know them. I think he is a bit afraid of living, he wants to make all his world around the religion, and anything else...no friends, no girls, no hobbies, no ambitions but his believings. I think this is a little sad, because Mr Rivers seems a valuable, intelligent man...
I agree with you, I think the conversation between Jane and St. John is really interesting because of the way that Jane tries to chat with him and to know his feelings. Besides, his self-description approaches to our idea about him.
On the other hand, he is in love with Miss Oliver but he doesn't want to admit it because his duties are more important than his feelings, at least by the moment. For that reason I think Jane understands him perfectly, because she has chosen the right way instead of her feelings too.
MªJesús a very good comment, I agree with you on everything. It is important to see this aspect of StJohn´s, now he seems more human.
Your question is interesting, is love secondary for men? I do think it is. They can leave a love for practically anything. I am just thinking about the example of Casablanca, the film, the end speaks about this too. The woman was ready to leave everything for her love and he was not.
Men have many interests in their lives but women still seem to have only two: men and children.
Rosa, on the other hand.., around religin and nothing else.., beliefs..,
Yes Jane is brave and outspoken. I think she worries about StJohn and his happiness because she sees that he loves Rosamund and she loves him too.
I think Bronte is telling us that women have an opinion and that they should give it.
Ludi, for the moment..,
Yes they have both said no to their love for their principles or for their wishes of something greater.
But while one is with Jane, one regrets that StJohn acts like that because he could have done a lot of good in a different way. But I fear StJohn wants to be a saint and in a way he is a bit haughty.
Good morning.
I agree very much with the last posts. And I am glad you have mentioned the film Casablanca, I just adore classic films. It is not strange that Ilsa wanted to go with Rick, because Laszlo, the husband, was a pretty boring man... a bit like St John, but not religious...
Talking again about Jane, probably, it is true that love is a secondary thing for men...but I think this is because it has a historical (and social) thing behind it. Men could work, study...did as they wanted. Men lifes' were wider. Women only could get a husband, get married and have children... or become governesses, like Jane, Miss Temple, Mary or Diana... and, at the end, Ms Temple is a married woman, and she is not a governess anylonger. No wonder love and family had been the most important things to them.
I am going to give a hand to help men about they and their feelings, I think love is not a different thing for women or men, it depends on the person,throught the history there were as much men who died for love as women, but I have to recognize that nowdays men live more to see footbol than to see women, je, je, (it is a joke) I'm afraid in this blog there are not any man who writes about his ideas, so for the women who post here it is difficult to understand what they think about that subject, but we can give them advantage of doubt
Rosa, men's lives were.., for them..,
Yes, I suppose that is an explanation and that women now are interested in other things. But I fear we are still very much concerned with family and love. Maybe in 100 years'....
Mercedes, about them.., we have to use the object pronoun as the pronoun appears after a prep.
..through History.., there is not any man discussing..,
You are absolutely right!!! Where are the boys???? I think they are not as interested as we are in discussing ideas and feelings! This is the truth. So it follows "as the night the day" that they are less interested in love than we are!
No, honestly, I do think they are interested in more things than we are and in that sense they have an advantage over us, I suppose one of these days we are going to start acting like them, but not yet in Spain I think...
Of course, men are interested in other things which are not football:
-sex
-cars
-computers
-beers
And of course, their friends of all the live...
And, of course, then we have the freaks (the ones who are mad about Star Trek, Star Wars or something like that, the ones that only hear a kind of music or only watch Iranian or Swedish films, or something like that). And of course, we have the gays...
Yes, it is true, in this blog, I think there are only women posting...Why?
Coming back to Jane, is interesting to note that in the next chapters we are knowing some aspects of Jane's and Mr Rivers' personality wich were unrevealed. I think that Jane is a bit in love with Mr Rivers... but she doesn't love him as she loved Mr Rochester. Perhaps because that she wants to make a portrait of him... or she doesn't mind he would marry Miss Oliver...
I agree with their opinions about men are less interested than women in love.Not only have they been trained through the society,but they have also designed with a more pragmatic mind. Mr.Rivers is convinced that his calling is to preach the gospel.Then,if task for which God has destined him was that, he will be happier in being a missionary
Rosa, their oldest friends.., coming back to Jane IT is interesting..., because of that...,
I don't think he is at all interested in Mr. Rivers I must say, Rosa, I think he just wants to paint the portrait so that he can have a portrait of him and give his to Miss Oliver. Jane is in love with Mr.Rochester, so far she has not found a substitute for him.
Amparo, about men being..,but they have also been provided with..if the task that God...,
You are right, I agree with you but he could have also served God in England! I do think StJohn is a bit too obssessed with what God has said to him. The year before he was not so sure...
So... Do you think Jane is playing the matchmaker? Hummm...
Interesting...
Rosa, I do. I think Jane sees that StJohn would be happy with Miss Oliver and that she would turn him more human. It would also be good for Diana and Mary to have a brother with money so much so as Miss Oliver is sweet and would be delighted to have them. And finally Jane sees that Miss Oliver is in love with him so it would be suit them all perfectly
Yes, surely because Jane apreciates Mr Rivers and Ms Oliver, wants to see them happy togheter.
But I think that the next chapters are most interesting. I am not going to talk about them, in order to not spoilt them, because perhaps somebody has not read yet.
It is amazing how the fate can be change a life, suddenly, Jane is wealthy, she, who was a poor orphan even though knowing she had a poor family and she didn't like poverty and now, on this part of novel she found her poor family and all of them are rich because of Jane’s donation.
I continue with my idea about this novel is a story of missing and meeting, Jane lost a many people around her but she found a new family and it is possible a husband, why not? It seems to me that Jane is changing her mind respect to Mr. River
Good morning:
We have seen that Jane is not a selfish person: being so lonely, she could be so. But now she has discovered she has a family, and this is more important to her than money. She wants to share the money with them, and make them happy. And she is concerned by her uncle, who she never will know, than for the heritage.
And Rochester. She is still thinkimg about him, in spite of all the harm that he has done to her. Rochester is her manin concerning. She can't forget him.
Rosa, she wants to see them.., not to spoil..,
So we agree.
Mercedes, how fate can change..., about this novel being.., respecting Mr. Rivers..,
Yes it is true, she found everything and maybe a husband too we´ll see.
Rosa, Rochester is her main concern..,
I don't know if Jane is going to end with St John after all but I don't think so, for what you say, she is still thinking of Mr. R, she can´t forget him. It looks as if she can't forget him.
St. John's pefectionism is so great that he can't understand why everybody doesn't join him "under the same banner". We can see how different he is from Jane. It is imposible that she accepts him as her husband. She knows very clearly what kind of love she wants. And she knows too that when she has St. John in front of her she feels uneasy, unfree and inwardly, she can't be herself. This is the point in relationships. I think it is very important to be accepted by your partner like you are and you must show yourself like you are since the very beggining.
Jane is aware that St. John will always be judgging and pressing her in order to get her pefection. She doesn't agree.
Jane does a fantastic description of St. John (the last paragraph on page 402-403) which explains why Jane is incapable of marrying him.
I forgot to point out that in this chapter we can see how marriages have nothing to do with love in many cases. When one is ambitious enought it doesn't matter the partner, only the own aims that one can achieve through the chosen partner.
MªJesús, from the beginning.., to make her perfect.., the personal goals that one can reach..,
A very good and well-written comment. I agree entiely with you. And what you say in the second comment is true too. Sometimes people marry to get what they want and maybe the marriage is more successful at the end too. Let's talk about this in class today.
I do think that Jane or anyone, for that matter would be very unhappy with St John, those puritanical people, who in a way lack feelings being so strict with themselves, make everybody near them unhappy or at least uneasy.
It’s been quite a long time since the last time I commented in the blog, and as I have read you have talked about many things.
Firs of all, I want to say something about the way men and women face love. As Mercedes has said, I don’t think women and men are so different. I’m not saying there are no differences between us and them, but I think it is more a matter of bringing up, than a question of being completely different.
We have lived in a really repressive and sexist society in which the roll of men and women were established and it was not many time ago. Therefore, in my opinion, the past is still, in a way, determining our actual behaviour, and although it is changing nowadays, we have a long way to go. I mean, I’ve been told to be independent, but at the same time I have been asked since I was a little girl if I had a boyfriend, every time I visited my relatives or friends of my parents’. And I didn’t see they were so insistent when they were with my brother. I was not more interested than my brother in the subject, but they made me think about it much more often.
Back to Jane, I don’t see she is in love with Mr. Rivers, and I wonder if a woman can be really in love with him. I think he has done a favour to Mrs Oliver, in my opinion he is absolutely right, the happiness wouldn’t have lasted long. And had Jane known better Mr. River I don’t think she would have tried to join them. Now that she has gone through the experience of trying to talk with him and make him understand why she won’t go with him as a couple, I think she would think twice before matchmaking.
It seems that Jane is getting whatever she always wanted since she was ten years old: a family,a job,some of money..."love".However, Mr.Rochester,her beloved Mr.Rochester
who sould be the best gift for her,is out her's reach.
I wonder he will do now.Why has not Mr.Rochester shown any sign of life?.Will he be ill or dead?
Hi, I hope that Mr. Rochester isn't ill or dead, this would be the death of Jane!! I think this chapter (34) is one of the best written, some dialogues are fantastic, and it is one of the most interesting because much of Jane's thoughts about love and life are present in it. Jane makes a clear distinction between what for her is love and what it means for St John, a tool to achieve his purposes. It is very sad when he proposes marriage to her in that cold way. I agree with Jane when she says: 'we did not love each other as man and wife should: and therefore it inferred we ought not to marry'. St John does not scruple to blackmail Jane when he says: 'if you reject it, it is not me you deny, but God'
I agree with you,Mariana.The chapter 34 is writen with such perfecction that you can imagine step to step what is happening between Jane and Mr.River.Certainly,St John goads to Jane,but she admits that she look up to him but,she will not marry with him. It is a wise decision.
Good afternoon to all of you.
Mr Rivers is a terrible man. And he is even more terrible because he could be a good man, a quite likeable man: he is handsome, he is honest, he is clever, he has good intentions, he has morals...all of those things are spoiled by his only and obsessive ambition: to become a missionary. And it's a pity. Ms. Oliver did well indeed in marrying other man: Mr. Rivers never would be a good husband, I think he is fit only to be a good clergymen, as Jane says. And she can't wait for him all her life He had denied Jane, he tried to mould her in his convenience. And Jane does as he says! Perhaps she has been so desesperately alone, and she tries to keep people around her.
And notice what he says to Jane: "You are made for labour, not for love". This is terrible! Nobody likes to hear such things, even if you are a plane,pure, puritanical young girl like Jane. No wonder she says she is not ready to be a missionary.
MªJesús, I agree with you. He contacts with her and finds her different, but it is also, in my opinion, that something that is attached to love, something we cannot explain or understand it just happens. Somebody attracts you and you don't know why.
I think Bronte created Jane plain, to emphasize on the feeling of love. You can be greatly loved even if you are plain. Love is something else.
When do you think that God gave Mr. Rochester absolution?
Maite, much time ago or better long time ago..,
I don't really agree with you on that we are the same, I think we are different and the way we look at love is very different. However you are right when you say that society treats the theme differently and puts pressure on women who are not married or haven't got a boyfriend. It has happened to me too. The boys are never asked!!
Amparo, what she wanted.., I wonder what he will do. Why hasn't he shown...?...step by step.., Jane lookS up... she will not marry him.
A very good decision as Maite also said, StJohn is terrible, he has no heart, for me, he does things with his mind but I think there are certain things that involve the heart and particularly in his profession!!!
Publicar un comentario