Critics say that Dickens is possibly the best narrator in English. He certainly is a master at getting deep inside, and potraying human nature. We hope that the FIFTHS enjoy this new novel.
13 de noviembre de 2009
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Wilkie Collins
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«El más antiguo ‹Más antiguo 401 – 487 de 487Hello Folks
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Cheers
Stacie
Hey Guys
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Joanne
Howdy Guys and Gals
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Stacie
Here our anonymous friend is again since long ago... I wonder why... Too many allusions?
I perfectly see what you two mean. That´s divinely theorical. Because I´ve always heard people -and myself- saying: "I forgive you, BUT...". Of course it depends on the situation; I am only referring to grave situations, like the one we are analyzing: to see your life ruined.
I think, Carmen, that we have been saying the same about Miss Havisham´s lack of awareness until she saw that Estella was also cold to her and Pip´s torment. Miss Havisham has also realized that her only objective in life has failed, as Estella is living another misery, as Mar rightly pointed out the parallelism.
Well, I must admit that I am becoming a Londoner! I am joking! I am far from that yet... What is true is that I am all the time roaming the streets -as Carton did- and knowing London every time better, and thus, loving it more and more. And now even more... Spring, spring, spring... You all have to see it, I also love receiving visits!
Have you finished the novel?? Have you read the two endings? I only liked one!
Hello Guys
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Cheers
Joe
Yes, replying to Carmen, and about the course on English through literature in Jesus Maestro, I wasn't very impressed by Mark Twain, or Roald Dahl, but, well, it's nice to know a bit of them...
Anyway, we're also going to do a bit of Shakespeare (I think we'll read some of The tempest) and there is some poetry in the program, (We already read an extract of The ballad of Reading Gaol, by Wilde, and liked it). We have also read some short stories from Dubliners by Joyce, which I also liked. I think we're going to read some extracts of some theatre play also and will do some Virginia Woolf. The thing is that we analyze a lot each story we're reading, so we haven't got a lot of time for "meeting" different authors.
Anyway, Carmen, sometimes I miss doing some creative compositions, like the ones you assigned us: "Describe a dream", or "The beginning of a novel" :D
Still, now I shouldn't complain, because our next composition should be creative: we must invent an ending for a short story by Raymond Carver. (Very interesting author, by the way)
About The painted Veil, I only finished it last week, so I could not comment on it. But I bought it because I saw that you had read it in the blog and thought it might be an interesting story. I was not disappointed at all! I thought it a very instructive story for women... I like this William Somerset Maugham!
Yes, I'm quite updated about Maria, hehe. We've been discussing on Jane Eyre. Maria, I hope when I go there to visit we could go see some play as with Carmen! and you're right, maybe some day I'll read Great Expectations, though I'm a bit lazy to go on with Dickens for the moment :D
Big hug!
Howdy Guys
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Wendy
Elena, you should read Great Expectations -don´t be lazy, you will like the story and, even more, the characters- and come to London the last weekend of May to see the play "Miss Havisham". Is it not tempting?? Look for cheap flights in Rumbo.com now!
Thank God UK airspace has been opened... No more ashes, please.
Hi Folks
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Bob
I wish you a happy Book Day!
Hello again!
I wanted to show you a link from Youtube, with the BBC film on Great Expectation, so we can watch it more easily than passing it by. I could not find a link with subtitles in English, but I think we are used enough to the text.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe6LRAEHkoU&feature=related
I wanted as well to post a video on The balcony scene, wich is from a english film made in 1954. If you click in the bar in order to play from the third minute (3:15), Olivia Hussey (Juliet) starts with "... what´s a Montague,... what´s in a name?...."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4khw9njwac&feature=related
Elena, I cannot believe that you are lazy to take up Dickens particularly as you miss our DIFFICULT compositions, which you were so good at!!!! Anybody who likes writing likes Dickens, because he writes so well, his descriptions are so real, and his characters are so well analyzed. See if we advance onto other great writers and try George Eliot (Middlemarch), Thachery (Vanity Fair). i´m so glad that you are doing more than just Rohal Dahl and Oscar Wilde, I mean i like them, but we do them in the third year. The Tempest sounds more like it for postgraduates. Who is the teacher?
Maria, you are so lucky, "roaming the city like Carton" and knowing it so well!!! You´ve had such an opportunity and you have not missed it, which is what most people do (I´m not an exception) when we have an opportunity!!!Of course you have to go with Elena to the theatre when she visits you, followed by dinner and fashion bar..we have to meet the English, Elena you´ll have to wear high heels..all Londoners do, don´t they María? It always strikes me how they can???
Now going back to our Great Expectations we were suposed to discuss the "double" existing between Pip and Orlick, which is the subject of the next composition. They seem to have parallel lives, don´t they? Wherever Pip is Orlick ...follows. What is the meaning of those words Orlick mentions when he confesses the death of Mrs. Joe? "...but it warn´t Old Orlick as did it; it was you", I was wondering whether Pip "killed" his sister and the impediment that mrs. joe would have been in Pip´s new life.
The nest question we raised in class was the wonderful friend that Herbert is. What a good person he is, and how he is rewarded in the novel. I´ve finished it, and as we are currently doing 54, nest Tuesday we cna´t talk about this yet...
Commets
hello! Where are you? In the Seville Fair whirling around to the music?
Carmen I want to tell you thank you very much for informing us the details about our next essay through the blog and also for explaning about our next English class to us. It is very usefull for me as I was not able to attend our English classes last Thursday (I´m sorry. Main problems did not allow me to attend it).
In spite of the subject for our next essay not being easy I like it very much, as I always say that I´m intrigued by Orlick.
About the novel I will be able to comment on something tonight as I am working now (life is not easy!)
Maria, when Carmen, Elena, etc visit you don´t forget to show them the pub called (Charles Dickens). I forgot to tell Carmen and my fellow students that I went there and that you know the place now. It is located close to Covent Garden. In spite of the place not being a great one, at least you can have a look at the corner.
Jesús, thank you for the links you have attached.
Mar, we were missing you! I see you have been busy..., even you are working on Sunday...
Oh yeah, I am a lucky girl... on the high heels! jeje. London smiles at me! Elena, come to see it, and we will do the lot: theatre, wines, dinner, roaming a little too, museums, art galleries... Hurry, hurry!
Well, Great Expectations. Orlick and Pip. Orlick is despicable indeed. The reader never feels pity for him but deep refusal. I think it is because we don´t know why he hates Pip so much, we don´t know the reason why he hates gratuitously, thus we think him to be basically a baddy, with no values to admire in him. On the other hand, we have Pip. We first thought him to be a goody, but he was not. He is basically good, ok, but as a human being he mistakes and has bad thoughts... But he is not despicable. I was very dissappointed by his behaviour, but never felt contempt. It seems to me possible -now that Carmen points it out- that there is a sort of parallelism between them. It is true that Pip could desire his aunt death as she had made him -and Joe too- wretched -ill treated by her since a child-, and because she would not have fit in Pip´s wished brand new life, trying to belong to the upper circles. So, as Pip couldn´t kill -given his good nature-, Orlick did it for him; so the sentence Carmen writes would have now sense: "it was you". Then Orlick is also working at Miss Havisham. I couldn´t understand why, but now I can guess that it is the symbol of Pip´s evil side remaining...
Herbert is the best of friends one can have, always there when is needed. I also loved the way he is rewarded, a sign of hope in the novel.
Yes Maria more than busy ... (huge problems) but, but, but I am here enjoying the blog and traying to learn as much as I can. About Great Expectations you have pointed out very interesting ideas about Orlick. I would like to add my point of view about the reason why Orlick hates Pip so much: (Biddy). In my opinon, Orlick wanted to conquer Biddy and he thought that Pip was his rival. Carmen says that they (Pip and Orlick) seem to have parallel lives. Yes, we can talk (apart from other respects) about their unrequited love, cannot we?.
About Carmen´s question I think that the author also "killed" Mrs Joe as she was incompatible with Pip´s new life.
Yes, we will talk about Herbert next week, I like this character very much (including his name!). He was crucial in Pip´s life, I mean, after Pip’s elevation to the status of gentleman. It was in chapter thirty that he said to Pip: “now, Handel, I am quite free from the flavour of sour grapes, upon my soul and honour! Not being bound to her, can you not detach yourself from her?-I told you I should be disagreeble.”
Hi!!! Thanks Carmen for the message. The following days I will in Seville (its fair finish this week end!!!!!). I had been invited to attend to a Congress on Gender and Human Development: Human Rights, Violence, Education.... I hope to get interesting topics for the oral exam.
Anyway, I must tell you that I haven´t forgotten my english lessons at all. I have my tickets to see "As You Like" and "The Tempest". But that's not all. I ´ve got their texts as well, in the English and Spanish version, as well as the one of "The Merchant of Venice". I can send them to you by email, if you wish.
Also, as I´ve mentionned to some of my colleagues, I have several movies in English which we can see some day in class or later or I can lend you to see them at home: Jane Eyre, Mansfield Park, Oliver Twist, Persuation ....
Mar, I went to the pub you´ve mentionned, I´d like to be there again. I hope to be there soon and enjoy the good and interesting things in life.
With reference to the next issue of writing, Orlick always intrigued me, but everything appeared more clarify to me when I saw the movie.
I am reaching the end, I wonder if it ends like the book, because I´ve also seen the new new version, with W. Paltrow and its quite different. Let´s see.
Have a nice week, and please, keep me informed!!!
Ana Gabriela
When Camen asked us what Pip had to do with Mrs. Joe´s death, I did not get the deal of such question. However it is true that Mrs. Joe´s attitude was an obstacle for Pip´s expectations, so that her death was very convenient for him in the end. But for her death, his desire of becoming a gentleman would always be scorted by his... common sister.
If you look back, do you think that Pip felt much sorrow for his sister´s abscence? I am sure he never missed her in his new status. Whenever he reminded his old life, it was to praise Joe or Biddy, but never Mrs. Joe.
On another subject, Herbert generosity is out of this world!
I like the idea of Herbert´s matching with Clara. They are maybe two of the most kind-hearted characters in the book, and their destinies are about to be toghether! (I hope so!). Somehow, it is like an anticipatory happy ending (I still have not read the end). They both stand out for his ability to serve others, and for me it is an extremely valuable quality, and very difficult to find.
Ups!
-Herbert´s generosity
-They....their ability.
Furthermore, Herbert in all likelihood, was the best candidate for being Pip´s enemy. Since their first meeting, Herbert owes Pip a punch, and even more: Pip was a kind of invader for Herbert in Satis House. Who knows if Estela could have been part of his aspirations? (well, I think she was not, because Herbert is intelligent and chooses the good girl, not the popular one).
In spite of these statements, Herbert could not help serving and attending Pip in every single moment. He cheers Pip up in his want of atracting Estela, and in short, he saves his life from a certain death.
I wonder what makes him be such an amiable person. There is no need for him to be so good. In one way, it is the same as Clara who has enough reasons to hate his father and to leave him, but she does not dare to do it.
Jesus, in my opinion, some people´s nature is good and we have some examples in the novel.
But for reading Pip´s words with regard to Herbert I would have doubted about Pip´s conscience.- "It was the only good thing I had done, and the only completed thing I had done, since I was first apprised of my great expectations". I mean, in the end he had great satisfaction of making arrangements in favor of Herbert and Herbert deserved it, didn´t he?.
I think that Dickens wanted to show the boys as rivals when they first met. They fighted without apparently any reason. However, after the fighting, having won, Pip received the prize: Estella´s kiss. I thought it was all Estella´s doing, having told Herbert to fight against Pip and unless he won, he wouldn´t receive her kiss. He lost the fight, true, but he won somehow. He did not get obssessed -nor with Estella nor with Miss Havisham´s will-, had personality and thus, succeeded in life, obtaining what was fairly deserved.
As to being the best of friends, I believe that when Herbert was raising Pip´s spirit towards getting Estella, it was because he also believed that it was what was expected for Pip, what Miss Havisham had planned for Pip. Had Herbert known that Pip was doomed to fail, he would have tried to stop him and make him look away.
Finally I’ve finished the novel, but I’ve promised myself I’ll read it again at some point in the future. I was so eager to get the end that I feel I’ve missed many details.
About Herbert, I agree Mar that he is by nature good. He belongs to that kind of people, I’ve always envied, because they have kind and helpful feelings about everything. I think he had a difficult situation at home, with her mother more worried about not being married a title than about taking care of her daughters and sons, they always being in somebody else’s hands. But we haven’t heard about any negative Herbert’s reaction to this situation. He is hopeful and optimistic, cheerful and sympathetic. He doesn’t choose Drummle, who is wealthy, as a best friend but he chooses Pip, who is full of expectations; he doesn’t choose Stella, who is theoretically upper class, but he chooses Clara, who is kind and generous. He gets involved with Provis care just because of Pip, who is his friend, and when he finally succeeds in business and in love he wants to share it with Pip. I can’t image a best friend.
I won’t be able to attend classes because I’m working in Logroño this week, but I’ll eagerly follow your comments through the blog.
I think next compostion is a good opporunity to think about the novel as a whole. I need to reed again some passages from that point of view.
Susana, what a good description of Herber's way!
I have read this morning the chapter when they leave London through the Thames driven by the strenght of the tide. The description is so good, that the reader cannot help feeling onboard watching the other ships and the landscapes as they pass by.
Let´s see what happen next!
I would like to comment on some things about Pip. When he was closer to die than to survive, when the death close before him was terrible, he thought about Joe, Biddy, Herbert, Estella´s father –he used those words instead of Provis-, even though he thought about Estella´s children. However, he didn´t think about Estella herself. I´m going to point out something that could be either stupid or without importance but it seems that Estalla is part of Pip´s past now. I mean, at that crucial moment neither words nor thoughts were showed in favor or against her. He is involved with Provis hundred per cent and I like it. “I only saw in him a much better man than I had been to Joe”. “Please God, I will be as true to you, as you have been to me”.
Goodness me!! we are reaching the end of the novel and a few chapters ago I doubted if Pip was capable of changing. Not only does he change but he also develops.
I have finellay seen the blog alivem pity it should be so much towards the end!!!! The comments you´ve made are all interesting. I´m currently at home and this is the second gelocatl I have this evening, to think that I have a cold right on the weekend when I´m going to London!!!! Anyway Orlick and Pip really seem to me to be the two sides of a coin and when we have to choose we cannot choose Orlick, because he is an evul person, byt who would like to choose Pip? What makes Pip change his attitude his way his feelings his heart¿ Really it all comes from baseness, I mean Pip has had a really good person in front of him, Herbert is the one who always understands, who receives Joe well, makes allowances for Pip´s stypidty with Estella, bears up with Clara, importunes none and is nice to all, and he does not influence Pip (I wonder if goodness does), however as soon as Pip is face with what he understands, that is baseness, poverty he becomes a new person...Is it that we only learn when we are miserable, when thigs go wrong with us???
Last thursday, it was interesting to analyse the chapter of Magwich's death. Although we were in a rush and I did it very quickly, I could not avoid feeling sorrow for his situation. I liked the sentence that Carmen underlined: had other circumstancies surounded his life, his behaviour and actions would have been different. In my opinion it is his conciousness that makes the difference between him and Joe.
It was very moving as well when he asked Pip not to be in contact with him because having such a connection would be inappropriate of a gentleman . By the way, it is also moving when he asked him to visit the place, but as if Wemmick were the deal of his coming, just to let Magwich see him.
I liked the actor who played Magwich in the film, because his face shows, even when he was old, the mixture between the wildness and rudeness but with a hidden sense of empathy and amiability. I also liked the "old" Estela because she reflects an status, confered by her beauty, which is seldom perceived in the child she was.
Although I am looking forward to reading the end, I will wait until we do it in the class and calm my enthusiasm with a bit of reading of "The Tempest".
Jesus, you are right there are many things to talk about with regard to the chapters you presented as they are full of information and important details. As Carmen said to us we will do that as we didn´t have enough time last day.
I find some similarities between Wimeek´s wedding and Herbert´s wedding. It seems to do it all without preparation. Just waiting for the right moment. Walking to the church and shouldering (apart from the fishing-rod in Wemmick´s case which is quite funny) the happiness. In my opinion, they both, deserve such a good fortune as they are special, aren´t they?. About Pip (in spite of him being wrong in many respect) as far as Wemmick and Herbert is concerned, we cannot find Pip´s mistake, can we?.
I also think that Pip´s attitude towards Provis before his death was impecable. But for the fact that Pip was with him until that moment, Provis would have had a very hard death. He also did not suffer agonies of doubt –with regard to his daughter-. I love the words Provis said to Pip: “you have been more comfortable alonger me, since I was under a dark cloud, than when the sun shone. That´s the best of all”. I agree, that is the best thing Pip has done. He also appeals to the Home Secretary of State and roams the streets trying to look for solutions in a desperate way.
I have already finished the novel. I must admit that I was moved more than once. I wish to re-read it again. Roberto said that he wanted to re-read it in order to anylise Pip´s character. In my case and counting on Carmen´s teachings I would like to do that –apart from enjoying the reading- in order to pay attention to the grammar again and again.
We have already commented on the end of the novel today.
I´m thinking about Clara and Biddy and how important our husband/wife/boyfriend/girlfriend´s suport is when we are taken crucial decisions. It was Clara who told Pip that she would do her best to make him happy and to convince him that she was his friend too as she was totally agree with Herbert´s decision about inviting Pip to live with them. And it was Biddy who told Joe: “go to him, without loss of time” when Joe thought about visiting Pip. How lucky Pip was with such real friends!.
About Estella, in my opinion, she is used most cruelty by Drummle. She got married to Drummle because of his money. Not only does she break Pip´s heart but she also breaks her own. She is a victim of her husbund´s disrespect. Estella doesn´t feel anything but the worst is that she doesn´t feel anything for herself. She talks about suffering just now and about it teachings, well, it must be true but she did not learn how to ask for forgiveness yet.
I agree with Mar, in the way of Estela´s difficulties of begging Pip pardon, as Mrs. Havisham´s.
After the lesson we had yesterday, I must clarify that I am bossy, not because Carmen said I was not, but because it is one of my aquiles tendon (not only flattering, as Marta used to say last year). If I had to choose among all the characters of the novel, maybe I would focus in Mr. Jaggers. This year I have been familiarised with Great Expectations and with Les Miserables (Victor Hugo). There are a lot of similarities, as for instance, there is a convict who is a goody, there is an orphan girl with great expectations, and there is Mr. Javert, who, as Mr. Jaggers, embodies the law. So through singing the musical and reading the book, I found some possitions in me that were unnoticed. Mr Jagger´s obstinacy made me think a lot of my own attitude even when his importance in the book is not very remarkable. It must be true that Dickens developed extraordinary secondary characters. The way he reckons himself as a better person than the rest, the way he looked down on accused people and made them feel miserable, as the one who comes to his office and is roughly thrown out by him an Mr. Wemmick...
I remember last year Marta used to say that my attitude in the class resambled the first Mr. Darcy, all the time sulking as a boy and... suspecting. Maybe it is to late to correct this stupid defence mechanism, but had I leart something of the novel, I should think of Pip for whom it is never to late to go back!
There is another think in the book I felt identified with, and it is Pip´s clumsiness in the way he put his leg in, and how he tries to put it out in a unwise way and very frequently, when it is too late for the reparation. It is easily percieved when he gets into his new status, and boasts of it, refusing all his connections with his past becouse he considered they were degrading and unworthy.
Jesus, I appreciate the fact that you are able to talk/write about personal comments. In my opinion, it is never too late for anything (even though for the reparation you talked about) sorry, except if you cannot account on someone because he/she is dead.
About Pip, and continuing with the subject you pointed out, I think that on the one hand he followed the next idea "it is no use crying over spilt milk", I mean, he acted in a very wrong way with some people (Joe, Biddy, himself...) but getting upset after something has gone wrong is pointless (apart from a good recognition), it cannot be changed, so Pip behaved as if he had accepted most of the actions of his past. On the other hand, we can talk about Pip´s evolution. Pip was capable of changing and I liked it very much.
Very interesting, indeed, Mar and Jesús. I´m glad that through both novels, Jesús you have manged to intrepret yourself and...well. I do wish you had spoken a bit more and I find it very interesting that marta said you were like the first Mr. Darcy...!! I don´t know you that well..but I doubt it if this is your wife´s opinion, you must get her to read the blog and post her opinion of you...as to my comment I did it because you have opposed everything i´ve said about men, I mean you always turned out to be the exception!!! However this does not surprise me, few of admit to our little "failures", particularly if you are the man always asked to supply the example...you are the only married gentleman we´ve got in the class!!!!
Mar, I think Pip is brave enough to admit his wrongs on other people, notice that the novel is all a confession where from the first we see that a change has taken place, or rather, is bound to be conspicuous at some point of the narration , as it is after that horrible night when Magwich turns up in Pip´s lodgings. That being the turning point of his life and the "conversion" he experiences back to, or better still, the rebirth of his soul into a good human being. As the mists lift and the sun shines, Pip, moves on holding Estella´s hand into his new and better life.
Alone, as he is, beaten and his expectations lost he has managed to bring himself round to being a better, more human person, but he has had to lose everything to recover his soul.
Mar you mention his friends..in this Pip is lucky, indeed. how came he to have such good people around them? I think his nature was gentle and his heart was good, but when this seed of success, of money, of prospects was put before him, he soon forgot everything but what this could bring him. How many times in real life do we find this? Think of politicians, celebrities, sportsmen, anyone who comes into fortune..it is frightening to think that we are so easily corrupted...Another thing is the capacity to walk back to what we were... Pip managed....and the rest?
I´ve liked your comments very much! Here goes my reflection:
Pip was angry. He hadn´t even realized that his hands were coarse, nor his boots were common, nor the jacks were actually knaves. His expectations came from a criticism. He was angry, ashamed of his own ignorance and simplicity. He was angry because he wanted to belong to the club.
Some expect something good, better than what they have. Some others know their ignorance and stay still. Some others don´t even reach to know their ignorance. Pip belongs to the first group.
Once in that group, some walk the path to the true happiness, electing well the instruments to get it. Some others are based on misguided notions, mistake the instruments, become corrupted, forget where they came from, are blind to what is right or wrong. Pip belongs to the second group. He changed the love of Joe for the portable property which allowed him to enjoy false plaisures..., embodying moral emptyness and monetary irresponsability.
But suddenly: "All the truth of my
position came flashing on me, and its disappointments, dangers, disgraces, consequence of all kinds rushed in such a multitude that I was borne down by them and had to struggle
for every breath I drew".
Some never come back, and continue their emptyness and irresponsabilities -maybe too late to be restored, Jesús? I´m joking-. Some others return to what is trully worthy and start again. Pip belongs to the second group. And as Carmen, I ask, which one do you belong to?
About Estella, I want to mention something I pointed out yesterday when I was re-watching the film. When Estella was talking to Miss Havisham, she told her that she wasthankless, with a heart of ice, and Estella replied that she was what she has made her, a proud person.
Miss Havisham added that Estella did not correspond to her respect and her love; and Estella replied how she could speak about love?
Then, when she was leaving Satin House, Pip followed her and she told Pip she would live quite well, that she does not feel, that she has no feelings, and that she behaved in that way because she didn´t want nobody to be disappointed by it, tortured for her.
And she finished the conversation by saying that with respect to the issues of feeling she could not understand them; that her heart understood its meaning as a cliché. And that she had tried to warn him Pip since the beginning.
Anyway, I think Estella changes at the end of the story and can experience, at least, a friendship feeling........ I hope so....
See you later,
As Carmen says, Pip managed how to walk back to what he was. About the rest, in my opinion, Estella also managed how to walk back to the step she parted, I mean, Satin House, as she didn´t know the lower step from which she parted. Joe didn´t move on because he didn´t want to as he was in the step which made him happy. Provis also went back to the step he parted (he became a convict again), obviously, with regard to this character, he did against his desire, I mean, there is no comparison between Pip and Provis, but nevertheless, Provis also went back to the point he parted. Didn´t he?
Maria has established some groups. Well, we all belong to one group either because we chose it or because some circumstances move us into that group. In my case, I prefer to belong to the group I want to belong and also to the group of people who know how to go back if need be.
Grabriela, as you said, in the last chapter Estella talks about friendship, she wants to be a friend of Pip´s but ...let´s wait and see. Don´t forget that we will be the writers of the last, last, last chapter. I must admit that I like Carmen´s request very much.
Sorry I wrote “chose” it should be “choose”.
The United Kingdom woken up to a hung parliament last Friday. No individual party has a majority in parliament. The Conservatives (the so-called right wing party) have won most seats but they do not have enough members to gain an overall majority. Now we have to wait and see what alliances are formed.
By the way, we enjoyed the play “The tempest” last Saturday. In spite of me not understanding all the English words I understood more than a little bit. I liked it very much. As in Great Expectations it invites us to talk about forgiveness.
The ending of Great Expectations being open, we tend to feel that it is about friendship, as Mar wrote. Furthermore I like this kind of endings much more than some others without a place for the imagination. When a writer demands an effort of the reader to complete the ending with a little help of his creativity, it makes the reader feel useful, creative, and witty. It is like when a frightening film causes fear by showing a scary face of the frightened character, so you can feel that fear through imagining what on earth he is looking at, wich is much more frightening than looking at it!.
In my opinion there should be a new beginning in every ending. So in this case, it is as though a new expecatation about Pip´s future, started again.
Don´t you remember " I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship" in the end of Casablanca?
Which !!!!
María, I agree with you that we all like what is nice and belonging to the best is always attractive. I think that all of us pursue with more ar less intensity our expectations, which we dream will be GREAT. Ambitious people wil do anything to get what they wish for, Macbeth is all about this and I hope we can see it on stage on 2nd June, but what not everyone makes is the way back from the whril pool ambition or the foolery we are subjected to puts us into. As we have all read this wonderful story we will not have a problem to get back, if we follow Pip, back to reality and to honesty!!!! We have become very wise this year, I hope!!!!
Mar, all of us belong to the group we wish or the one we pursue and we are all capable of going back...I totally agree with you, and thank you for your compliment, I thought that having read two novels we could become writers ourselves..not easy though...perhaps we could vote for the best ending and give the person a prize...a gin´n tonic! Should María or Roberto win the award ceremony will have to wait...for a while..What do you think?
Jesús, I completely agree with you when saying that an ending should be a beginning of something else.
Yeah, I agree that we are wiser now than when we started reading Pip´s adventures. Dickens always teaches something in his novels. Another thing is whether we learn them and put them into practise.
A contest? Great! I love the prize!
Such a prize deserves our effort. I will do my best!.
Well, there are no comments any more! I miss them! Have we said good bye already to Pip and Co? Ok, we have to move on, don´t we? How are you all? Getting ready for the final exam? I hope it goes well and wish you luck. And remember that English don´t finish here. There are lots of books to read, English places to visit to put it into practise, great expectations not to be ever dissappointed if you get the right way! Good night.
Gosh, English DOES NOT
Maria, thank you very much for your best wishes. You suggest that we continue with our reading and you are right, there are many English book to read. Carmen recommends that everybody read English books in summer.
We are going to comment on two scenes of MACBETH during our English classes today. It was in chapter twenty-six that Pip told us: "... I know that I had been to see Macbeth at the theatre, a night or two before, and that her face (MOLLY´S FACE) looked to me as if it were all disturbed by fiery air like the faces I had seen rise out of the Withces caldron (A DARK CAVE. IN THE MIDDLE A CAULDRON BOILING)".
We can always find a link with "Great Expectations". The more I read it the more interested I find it.
Hello,
This brief post is just to tell you that I'm sorry for not having written any single comment over the last few weeks. I'll give no excuse and only say that I am missing the blog a lot as well as your comments. It's true. I do indeed.
Please do ask Carmen to propose a novel for summer season. Now I don have spare time at all due to the examinations and the times I find it, I'm so exhausted that I can't keep my eyes opened. Even so, I try to keep reading. Maria is right, there is a world out there waiting for you to keep learning.
I started Bleak House the other day, just three chapters. Enough though, I am completely all astonishment. Impressive. What else?
By the way, if you can try to see a new TV show in BBC website called "The young apprentice".
Kind Regards or as they, the rowers, say here
Row hard or go home.
I read some of your comments long ago (not the last ones) but I don't dare to say anything because I don't remember them properly which means I'll have to catch up. My apologies again.
The contest came to nothing...As it was with this group at the beginning and through the course so has it been at the end...nothing. However, I hope they have learned something and that they will continue to read in English.
Novel, says Roberto, but do you think they will continue to post during the Summer????????? Roberto, you are DREAMING.
GOODBYE FIFTHS!
Well, this is goodbye, I´m afraid, so I have decided to write my farewell post to you all and I will start by saying that though you have been a bit (....)disappointing to me, I have to admit that perhaps I expected too much from you, coming, as you did, after The Daffodils. I know that you must have found it somewhat (very) annoying to hear me praising them(deservedly!) and not you (deservedly, as well!), so though I apologise for this, you must admit that had you worked more, I would have said less!!!! Your consolation and my penitence will be that next year the new fifths will work even less than you and then.... I see myself talking to them about you: Mar, hardworking, coming everyday (not always easy, not always in the mood), attending all our lectures, speaking in class, posting on the blog, and I will hear again her words concerning myself. Susan, too, with her quiet ways and soft voice, who has managed to make some very interesting comments heard, and has produced some good essays, which, given they were written, I did not have to strain myself to "hear" them. Jesús, for being a sport and answering all my questions about couples (and getting through the year without once criticing his wife! I´m sure just in case we told her, Jesús, because it CANNOT be true). Paco, who has not once left the last row from which he has spoken little, but very nicely laughed at ALL my comments...thank you,Paco, it´s very reassuring and encouraging to see that though learn they do not, at least some students have enjoyed themselves!!!! Estella (very unfortunate name, considering the heroine!!!) who has never been discouraged, even though we often had completely different points of view (I´m not easy...); when you are a teacher you´ll find the students are WORSE!!!! Xavi, about whom, in spite of attending lessons regularly, we know little else than that he comes from EOI Barcelona and that he "found" the film...somewhere... Georgina, who defended her husband enthusiastically but has fallen short in comparison with Jesús...(I´ve always said that men LIE to us...very well). Teresa who came late, sat quietly, and started to have a voice in the Spring Term, and Noemi who came early, left early and did not have a voice at all!!! She found it on the very last day of the term, to tell us that when she speaks English she forgets to speak!!! Finally Mari Carmen, who has always spoken, laughed, agreed, disagreed, gone to the theatre, always in a good mood, and generally being the student teachers like to have in class.
To you all:
"Forever and forever farewell,...,
If we do meet again, why, we shall smile.
If not, why then this parting was well made", (Julius Caesar).
N.B. BE GOOD, there is little else..
"ever the best of friends"
Carmen, I have read and re-read your farewell post.
As far as I am concerned, Thank you very much for your words, for teaching me (and for your moral support). I will not forget what of good I have learnt this year
I will miss our English classes. I will miss Carmen´s teachings (not only about the English language) and I will miss my fellow students, from whom I have also learnt very much.
By the way, one of my “Great Expectation” is to be good in English. I know that this is a big project, so, I will continue studying English every day.
Mar, you will become very good if you work hard, you are already quite good, so you don´t have that far to go!!!
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much Carmen, for such a nice comment. I must accept that it has been hard sometimes to be despised for not belonging to the club. I agree that we are not so enthusiastic as the Daffodils were, but in the end we all are concern about the importance of learning English and you cannot imagine how much we appreciate the effort you did to let us know.
All the people I am acquainted with know about the two twin sisters who having studied in a boarding school in England, teach through Literature (I love this word and the way you taught us to pronounce it), they all know about her Granma who played tennis in Wimbeldon, the usefulness of the blog and the enormous conflict when I wrote that I did not like Pride and Prejudices, discussions about Mr. Darcy, Kitty, Estela and the plays we are encouraged to attend, not only to learn but also to do something different, interesting and enriching. And some traces of this good time will be forever in my mind: “I came to bury Cesar not to praise him!”, “for ever panting, and for ever young”, “Lift not the painted veil which those who live call Life” “upon my fair love's ripening breast, to feel for ever its soft fall and swell, awake for ever in a sweet unrest,” “Love is such a sweet sorrow that I shall say goodbye till it be morrow”
I have to say that I have never learnt so much as student and as a teacher!
Thank you so much!
Teresa, thanks for you post...you are back to quiet, I see!!!!
Jesús, thank you very for your nice words!!! I´m glad you´ve liked our way of teaching...it is the British way, so even though it is different and students at first are a little put out I think that in the ned they like it!!
You ahve picked out some very very nice quotes, they summarize the beauty of this language.
I do like your quotes Jesus. I would like to add one by Charles Dickens in Great Expectations (our book.The book which taught me the beauty of this language -as Carmen says-):
"life is made of ever so many partings welded together ..."
Hi there!
I´ve been to see "Havisham" to the theatre today and I must tell you about it. I´ve liked the scenario very much. I´ve taken even pictures of the wedding table, the cake, cobwebs everywhere (not mice, thank God), the clock at twenty to nine... We, the audience, were in that room of Satin House (it was that kind of theatres where are in the basement and you share the same floor as the actors; I was at the first row!), and that was exciting, moving. It transmitted the gloom very well. There were four Miss Havishams (each showed a particular characteristic of hers), Estella, Pip and two of Miss Havisham´s relatives, Georgiana and another whose name I cannot recall. It was clever to make a story from the relationship between Estella and Miss Havisham, at the time when Pip happened to be invited to join them in Satin House. They showed the games they played, the lessons Miss Havisham imparted, Estella´s progressive loss of feelings... However, I´ve not liked that they have changed the plot. At the end, Misses Havishams suggest Pip and Estella pretend to marry. And the day of the pretending wedding, Estella doesn´t attend and is forced to read the letter Miss Havisham received from his bridegroom in which she was abandoned. Estella refuses, says that she hates Miss Havisham and runs away with Pip!!!!! Nooooo!!! They bugged it with such an end!!! I was liking it, but with such an end, I cannot!!
Nevertheless, it´s always worthy going to the theatre in London. So I am glad I went and enjoyed it very much until... then.
Farewell!
Maria, I envy you, this weekend at London!. I wish I had gone to the theatre with you.
Thank you very much for giving us the details of the play. I agree with you, I don´t like that ending, however, the ambiguity of the ending in the novel allows everybody to create his/her plot. But for the fact that we (students) also wrote a new ending, we would have missed a very unique opportunity of comparing the different stories.
Sorry:THE very unique ...
Did you finally write an ending for the novel? How interesting! However, if Estella had run away with Pip, as it happened in the play I saw, the great expectations wouldn´t have existed. It just couldn´t be possible and thus, the play stopped being credible. You can be original, creative, without destroying the plot, don´t you think? You just have to keep loyal to the logical line, following the way the characters are, and do something appropiate and, above all, realistic!
María, we wrote alternative endings for the novel, and I have to say that it has been an absolutely entertaining and creative task. If you are interested, we can post them.
Last Wednesday, some of the sudents went to see Macbeth in Matadero. First of all, the theatre was impresive. It is settled in an old insdustrial space, so the stage is huge! Its profoundity is seldom found in other theatres in Madrid. The scenography was really simple, they did not change anything among the different acts, however a brilliant light desing made us make out the meaning of the action much more easily.
In my opinion, lady Macbeth was a bit overacted, (and his nasal voice did not help at all) but in general, the play being hard and intense, we could follow it easily
Carmen, hardly I can believe a whole school year has passed since that memorable first class, in Spanish, where you clearly tell us how your classes would be and what you expected from us.
When, after too many years, I decided to come back to the Official School never did I think that I would work so much, nor did I think I would I learn so much. You have taught me not only the use of English, but the beauty of this language and its literature. I’ve written essays I had never thought I was able to, I’ve discovered how interesting a novel may be if you have the opportunity to discuss it in a group. You have offered me the possibility to go regularly to the theatre, which so much likes me. For this and for many other things I want to thank you from the heart.
Now I understand Maria and Roberto, if I pass the exam I’ll miss the classes, the blog,… Perhaps, we could join the next year fifths in their reading.
Maria (and Carmen) I had a really nice week-end in London with my family. It was quite hot and the streets were crowed. We had dinner in Cha Cha Moon and I went with my daughter to Abercrombie which was completely packed (I couldn’t believe so many teenagers taking pictures of the shop assistants). Our hotel was close to the Globe Theatre, and we walked along the river walk which was very lively with all the pub’s terraces opened. On Sunday we went to Greenwich and I had a wonderful roast beef with Yorkshire pudding in the Spanish Galeon that I hardly recommend.
Wow Susana, it sounds really well!! You went to Cha cha moon, very fashionable, and to Abercrombie, always packed, and yes, lots of teenagers (and not so) queueing... I haven´t gone to Greenwich yet. Should I?
I would have loved to see you, though I was seeing a posh English wedding...
Jesús, thanks. If you post your ending, be sure I´ll read it. I believe it must have been interesting to think about creating an end.
Susana, now you understand that we missed the blog and the classes, not only because of the English!
Good luck in the exams!
Hi! Maria. How was your wedding?, were there many hats and flowers?. Carmen was right, London was full of flowers, flowers on the girls’ hair, flowers pattern on the clothes,..
I recommend going to Greenwich in a warm day. We went by docklands light railway (Maritime Greenwich) and we came back to the centre by boat. Greenwich Park was full of people with their picnic baskets (very British). The Royal Observatory is at the top of the hill and there are nice views from there. You can also visit the Queen’s House, which is part of the National Maritime Museum, with its original Tulip Staircase.
I was with Jesus in Macbeth performance in “Naves del Matadero”. It was my first time there, and I agree that the building is really impressive. Also I found the play hard, very hard with no concessions to optimism or enjoyment. The actor’s dark clothes and the lights in the stage even increased this feeling.
We have just sat our oral test. I wish we all have passed it.
You have all passed!!!
María, I´ve really enjoyed your superb description of the play, well done a very good review! I don´t think i would ahve liked the ending, it breaks the consistency of the novel, i see Mar´s point that the ending is quite open but Pip had to suffer a lot to have that shadow of an oportunity, it doesn´t seem possible in a short play, it makes the play..trivial!
Susan, it does seem a long way away...now you will be all alone without me...but "we have to move on" (Jane Eyre) and now you will have to read on your own, or you can join next year´s discussions on line!!!! Yes you have written 16 compositions yourself!!! and put some thought into a few of them.
Now for the written paper! Good luck and correct your compositions!!!
I´m glad you liked Macbeth...
Good morning!.
Carmen, thank you very much for giving us SUCH EXCELLENT PIECE OF NEWS.
Congratulations to all my fellow students.
I also want to congratulate you (Carmen) on your work (teaching us). However necessary our effort is, your interest made it possible.
“The beauty of this language”, you taught me that!.
Yes indeed, we must pay attention to our writing on June the 16th.
If if if I pass my exam I would like very much to accept Carmen´s invitation to join next year´s discussions on line.
p.s. Thank you very much to Marta as well, as she stayed with us yesterday. Having you (both) together with us was a very good psychological help.
SORRY I WROTE:
I would like very much ...
I SHOULD BE:
I will like very much ...
Thanks Carmen.
Congratulations everybody!!
Susana, the wedding was amazing. It was really amusing to be surrounded by some posh people. The bride and the bridegroom..., well, they were not posh at all... I was observing all the time and enjoyed it a lot. I also met a MP of the conservative party, with whom I was talking quite a lot time. He happened to be an old ex of the bride...!! who, actually, give me some relevant information, such as the bride´s pregnancy! So there we were, drinking champagne, he, sadly, for having lost his girl; me, really amused, for being mixing with the English without having been invited!!!!
Wow María! It sounds like the film "Four weddings and a funeral".
Let us see if we are inspired for the written exam!
Good luck to everyone (and long life to the couple!)
Oh yeah, it sounds like a novel! I wrote 'give' and should have been 'gave'!!! Sorry...
GOod luck for the written exam!
Best of lucks for the final exam!! See you later.
Yes, I wish we would pass the exam. Good luck!!!
I don´t know what will happen this afternoon, but I´d like to point out that I´ve learned and enjoyed a lot in this group. In any case, I´d like to thank you Carmen all the effort invested in all of us, and to my classmate thank you for your comprehension sometimes, and your useful help.
Thank you!
You are so nice to share these with us.
Thank you Mar and Javier for you nice words, next year I´ll think of all of you as I go into the classroom with new faces...
Congratulations to all of you..you passed!! Now keep going and don´t forget what you´ve learnt.
Thank you very much Carmen (again and again). I/we will miss you!!!
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Hi, I´d like to thank you Carmen, again, for everything and say good bye to the mates I couldn´t see in our "coffee" the other day. Also thank Maria and Roberto! I hope you all enjoy your holidays!!!!
I will be working because I have a new job, I´m very happy not only because of getting the job, but also because I´ll be working very close to Mar!!!!!!!!!!So, we ´ll be in touch!!!!!
Carmen, we wanted to ask you to include us (the ones who go to the cinema and theatre as often as we can) in your list to go with you and the new group, if it is possible.
Have a nice holidays. See you!!!!
Ana Gabriela
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I also found this great article about wiring your entertainment center: http://www.helium.com/items/1577888-how-to-wire-your-home-entertainment-center
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[url=http://www.milesgershon.com][img] data:image/jpeg;base64,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 [/img][/url]
F
Hi People!
I'm Looking to buy [url=http://www.milesgershon.com][b]Entertainment Centers[/b][/url] or [url=http://www.milesgershon.com][b]Wall Units[/b][/url] For a new hotel chain I'm working at in.
Can you guys give me a good recommendation of where is the leading deal on these? I live in Philly and I heard that the major thing about these [url=http://www.squidoo.com/ent3rtacn3tr][b]Entertainment Centers[/b][/url] is the cost of shipping and installation.
Thanks
Joe
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