30 de noviembre de 2008

HAMLET (william Shakespeare) Act I Scene III

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LORD POLONIUS
Yet here, Laertes! aboard, aboard, for shame!
The wind sits in the shoulder of your sail,
And you are stay'd for.
There; my blessing with thee!
And these few precepts in thy memory
See thou character.
Give thy thoughts no tongue,
Nor any unproportioned thought his act.
Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.
Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel;
But do not dull thy palm with entertainment
Of each new-hatch'd, unfledged comrade. Beware
Of entrance to a quarrel, but being in,
Bear't that the opposed may beware of thee.
Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man,
And they in France of the best rank and station
Are of a most select and generous chief in that.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all: to thine ownself be true,And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell: my blessing season this in thee!
LAERTES
Most humbly do I take my leave, my lord.
LORD POLONIUS
The time invites you; go; your servants tend.
LAERTES
Farewell, Ophelia; and remember well
What I have said to you.
OPHELIA
'Tis in my memory lock'd,And you yourself shall keep the key of it.

86 comentarios:

marta dijo...

This advice is still good advice today, don´t you think?
It is not as easy to understand as Antony´s speech but... read it and see what you make out

Rebeca 4º B dijo...

Hi everyone (This greeting it`s very similar to the logan that has been elected to represent Madrid as the olimpic city in 2016; ´hola everyone´).
According to Shakespeare`s literary work, and especially to hamlet, I´d like to highlight that, nearly since the first three words,I have realised that it contains many archaicus words, so I supposed it can be more difficult to read than ´Pride and Perjudice´.Of course, another characteristic that makes it hard to understand it´s that it is written in verse.
Before saying you goodbay, I´d like to animate you to support Madrid 2016!Bye

Carmen dijo...

Every time I read it I can´t help thinking, My God it´s so good and applicable to everyone, every age. Those of you who are young, learn it and keep it, those not so young follow it, it´s never too late. I would to focus on friends, how many times are we blinded by newly-made friends who invariably let us down?

marta dijo...

Another characteristic, that makes it hard to understand IS. You don´t need the subject as it is already there.
Of course we animate the event, and you´ll have to explain the connection a little so that I for one, can see it.
Rebecca you are right it is much more difficult, do you understand any of the councels he gives? For example what does he say about friendship or money?
We´ll read it because it is worth it.
Well done for trying

cris 4ºA dijo...

How can I star?, It's very hard and difficult to understand. Not only the archaicus lenguage, and because there are a lot of new words for me, also I dare to say that the meaning is pretty deep, I mean you have to look for it in your mind It's not clear in the text. Well I've not looked up any word in the diccionary yet, however I'll try to give my opinion.
I think his advise is that we have to try be prudent: We need to have thougts but not speak too much, We must listen to the others but not give our opinion clearly and fast. we mustn't be afraid to quarrel but previusly we need to be sure that we have enough support.
Also it's good to be in the middle: being familiar but not so familiar. We can't be lenders, and we can't be borrowers either, If you were always lending things you'd be able to lost a lot, on the other hand if you were always borrowing things you'd be always in debt.
More or less, this is all. Only I'd like to stand out a sentence that I liked.
All these advises must be follow as the night the day
I'll wait for Marta's corrections, and I hope to study this Shakespeare's act in class

marta dijo...

Cris I´m surprised! You have understood it quite well and it is difficult. It is the advice of a father to a son and it has all the ideas you´ve commented. He something about the way you should dress too. In bright colours or not calling for attention?
You have to say shouldn´t be rather than we can´t be lenders. I dare say is more idiomatic.
Must be followed, not follow, you want to use the passive inf without to.
But you´ve written it quite well and understood a lot, well done it is not easy!

Rebeca 4ºB dijo...

Thank you Marta for your amendements; I´ve always believed that things like this gives public education hight quality (by its teachers´ efforts, of course), which is now demanding support and help.As you said me, and after reading the text twice,I have been able to understand the meaning that Shakespeare tried to give to the friendship, and in general human´s relationships.He tried to equate frienship to money, and as far as I think to have understood (or I have wanted to understand, two both are ver important in our lifes, so if we don´t want to lose any of them, we should´t mix them.
Finally, I promise you that in the next class,I´ll tried to explain the connection that exists between two greetings, in order to give you the key, and to make Madrid´s olimpic dream cames true

rebeca 4ºB dijo...

sorry, I wrote lifes, instead of lives

maría 5ºB dijo...

Ok, I´ve read it, twice, but it is quite difficult. As I am reading, I understand words, but not the meaning. I´ve picked up only some sentences at the middle of the extract (like "Don´t tell what you think", "listen to the people but don´t give them your opinion nor your judgement", and a little bit more...). I´ve specially liked this: "Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy". It is a sentence full of meaning!! The best advise which is given, at least, among those I´ve understood. Nobody acts as Polonious advises, everyone talks about others and gives their judgements. However, it is only silly people that love to show off, which is the biggest lie. The worst is that, as time goes by, the lie is discovered, sooner or later, and this people come back to their former place, being ashamed.
I think we need a master-class to understand it...

marta dijo...

Rebeca, make Madrid´s Olimpic dream come true, we want the inf without to after make let, etc. in that construction. Thank you for your kind words they are too true though, but students must cooperate. If you follow my advice you will improve a lot and when you leave in two years´ you´ll be ready to do anything, practically in English but it is an effort.
It´s good that you have understood so much because it is difficult. He gives advice regarding friends money conversation, clothes behaviour and the honesty. They are very complete. Read it again and see how much you see of this

Anónimo dijo...

A translation according to the 21frt century:
No digas lo que piensas, actúa con prudencia
Se sociable, pero mantente siempre en tu sitio.
No dejes escapar a los amigos sinceros, pero no le brindes tu amistad a cualquiera
Evita las disputas, pero una vez en ellas, hazte valer
Presta oídos a todos, pero se solamente portavoz de unos pocos
Escucha todas las opiniones, pero guárdate las tuyas
Ten en cuenta que la gente juzga por el aspecto así que viste de manera elegante y sencilla.
No pidas dinero prestado ni prestes el tuyo. Cuando se le presta dinero a un amigo por lo general se pierden ambos y si te acostumbras a vivir con el dinero de los demás nunca aprenderás a administrarte.
Se sincero contigo mismo así no podrás ser falso con los demás.

maría 5ºB dijo...

We have already had the master-class, thanks Carmen for your enlighting comments. It is a very good farewall speech, full of advises. The best? All are good, but I may prefer this one:
"To thine ownself be true, And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man."

[We should do always those things like that (commenting poems, etc) instead of the Gold, which is booooring... I would not grassed to anybody... Would the rest??]

Carolina dijo...

Hello!

It has been very difficult to understand the text, but your comments have helped me a lot, so thank you!.
I think that Polonius`advises are very useful today, how many times we have heard our parents saying something like "be careful, don´t fight,.." or advising about your friends, the way of dress..?

Roberto dijo...

I wonder how Shakespeare was able to embrace such masterful a skill when describing human nature is concerned. If advice be the means to succeed in our aims, this excerpt from Hamlet’s gives us the straightest path to achieve them. Amazing!

By the by, having hired a documentary named In search of Shakespeare from the library for a second time, I feel overwhelmed by “such a mind”. I really wish both to read and to learn every single play or poem wrote by the Master, its historical context, his inspirations, EVERYTHING (in English indeed) and then living his words on the stage. Scarcely do fragments of his plays appear on the film and despite the difficulty I find to understand what it is being said, my wits are captured and my spirits rise.

Marta and Carmen could you tell me who is John Falstaff?


PS: I beg your pardon, for I have not read the comments you have already posted. I will.

Carmen dijo...

Falstaff is Henry the fifth´s uncle, I think. I´m very happy that you´ve been able to understand and have developed such a liking for Shakespeare; of course your spirits rise this is what happens when you beauty and wisdom are placed before you. You are really lucky, first because you can appreciate it, secondly because you can in the language it was written. You never thought you would get this far when you were seated in That´s English, did you? well done, Roberto, you deserve the pleasure Shakespeare is going to give you.
Thanks, Paloma, for your tranlation, you are always very helpful with translations..and, by the way, write your name, not everyone recognizes you. As you see I do, I know you and.. I´m getting to know you better...do you really want that?

Elena Gil - 5B dijo...

Only to say I enjoyed very much yesterday's lesson on Hamlet. It was highly interesting!

Susana 5ºC dijo...

Good teaching is at least as difficult as good!!.
I feel very satisfied with this new challenge but please, What is the next?, I sweat blood!!

maría 5ºB dijo...

All of us should read more Shakespeare to be better people, as life and behaviour´s guidance.

Rebeca 4º B dijo...

I haven´t could avoid reading the traslation that has made an anonimous person; but only in order to make me sure that I had understood the text correctly. After that, I have realised that I was right, but consecutively, I began thinking about I could have fallen in one of the mistakes that Shakespeare reflected in his play;if you´re not sincere with yourself, you can lose your selfconfidence. Then, if I hadn´t understimated my knowledge, I would´t have read that comment.
What can we learn of it? In my opinion, the answer is in the literature, good literature, because many keys of the life have been told by writters. So, if I had followed Hamlet´s advice, my confidence would have increased, instead of devaluated.

marta dijo...

Rebeca, I haven´t been able to avoid the temptation of reading the translation that an anonimous person has made.
Stick to the order S+V+O+A and you won´t go wrong.
What you say is very wise I agree entirely with you.
I´m very glad the comments of the 5ths, you appreciate Shakespeare and in English too, you have a good English level and a good brain. You are also eager to learn, that is a very satisfactory conbination.
Roberto you will read understand and live Shakespeare, I´m sure you are very good at English and you´ll get better.
Falstaff is Prince Hal´s friend, a friend that drinks plays goes around with women, he said: "What is honour? A word" So he was not one for honesty. In Henry IV when Prince Hal has become Henry V, and Falstaff approaches him, Henry V, walks past him, showing that he has discarded his friend and his way of life. Now that he is king he is going to be different. Falstaff also appears in the merry wives of Windsor. He was a very popular character as he was fat jolly redhaired, a heavy drinker and a scoundrel but not really harmful, those kind of people are often very popular.

Rebeca 4ºB dijo...

Thank you Marta, I´ll try to follow the English language´s structures, instead of translate form the Spanish literaly.
As you, I also think that, unfortunately, there are many people that seem the same personality as Falstaff. According to my thoughts, I belive it´s why Shakespeare included him in more than one of his novels. He also appears in a Giuseppe Verdi´s opera,that show how important this character was. Of course, it shows us how close can be the different areas of the culture; in this case music and literature.

marta dijo...

Rebeca:instead of translating, remember: gerund after preposition.
How close the different areas of culture can be. There is no inversion with an indirect question because it not a question it is a nominal sentence.
You are right it is a character much liked and in many cultures, and due to its popularity Verdi wrote an opera about him.

Rebeca 4ºB dijo...

If I hadn´t been at class last thursday, I could be forgiven for my first mistake; but I remember well you explained that prepositions were followed by gerund...sorry. I had wanted to have made the inversion well, but I don´t know how to do them, I learnt in one day, but I´m afraid I´ve forgotten it.
Thinking about the long life that Shakespeare´s work is having, I´d like to focus that it could probably be dued to its characters behaviour, don´t you think so? They all performe abstract phenomenons, that can belong to our wishes, our courage,and definitely to our human nature.

marta dijo...

Don´t worry about mistakes the important thing is to learn to do it right and you will.
Inversion is when you use a question pattern, i.e. you put the auxiliary verb before the subject, it is like asking a question but in an affirmative sentence.
To be due to, is the verb,"to its characters´behaviour" don´t forget the Saxon Genitive.
I agree that the validity of Shakespeare´s characters lies in their modern behaviour and in the fact that what they proclaim is so near us, we still feel the same, we have empathy with them, what they say and believe is still true nowadays. They are human. Shakespeare has spoken and described human nature like no other he has no paragon. That is why he is universal.

Roberto dijo...

Thank you Marta both for the compliment and the information related to Falstaff. I inquired about this character because in the documentary mentioned in my last post, the presenter shows it as the most popular Shakespeare’s character for English people.

On the other hand, I could watch briefly moments of Othello, played by the Royal Shakespeare Company, and so impressed was I that I am looking forward to read the play, the scene when Othello is to kill Desdemona being amazing. Oh that time stopped passing so that I could read, read, read!

By the way, yesterday I watched “Dead Poet Society” for the first time in English and I enjoyed it for many reasons, the first of which being that I felt like one of the students and Carmen as the teacher making us find out the real meaning of learning. I also thought about the Reading Club, since Robin Williams (the teacher in the film) quotes the first words of the extract of Julius Caesar posted on the blog: “Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears”.

Susana 5ºC dijo...

Regarding Carmen´s question: how many times are we blinded by newly-made friends who invariably let us down?

In my opinion, we are very enthusiastic at the idea of discovering new friends but I believe that everything in life has a risk potential, and nothing is truly safe. However, it is impossible to avoid new friends, new experiences, new skills, new places, because we need to live so much as feel certain emotions. All the experiences are gathered in the brain as learning and are enriching.
Apart of that, I don´t forget that human being is the only animal that can trip twice with the same stone.

Susana 5ºC dijo...

Sorry, I wanted to say in my previous comment: Good teaching is at least as difficult as exceptional.

rebeca 4ºB dijo...

As Roberto, I has also watched `Dead Poet Society` for many times, but not yet in English,and not so much recent. However,I can recall many subjects that are told in it, and I supposed it´s owed to the film made me think about many interesting things.I was only a child, so I was more susceptible than I´m now. Another time, we can see other Shakespeare´s novel allusion, that confirms literarure´severlasting nature. Finally, and according the film, I´d like to say that we all need someone who wakes our mind up at the beginning of our lives, and it usually appears as a teacher.

Rebeca 4ºB dijo...

Sorry, I should have written; I have / according TO

maría 5ºB dijo...

Roberto, very funny your comparison between the school and the movie, though Robin Williams don´t remind me of Carmen at all! ;) I watched it many times, but in Spanish, so I couldn´t notice Shakespeare´s quote. That´s another reason why to see original versions.
It´s true that we can not find another writer like Shakespeare. Marta has already said everything.
As for our blindness, it is something inevitable. I agree with Susan when saying we trip twice with the same stone, and we are doomed to do it always. We don´t learn. We usually think we know people by seeing them three times, or sharing some moments, but then something happens that you wouldn´t have imagined at all. Above all, if they tend to flatter you, be careful, because they want something. At least, it´s better it happens sooner than later so as the pain is inferior.

maría 5ºB dijo...

Robin William DOESn´t remind me, Sorry!

marta dijo...

Rebeca you are beginning to correct yourself which is good. I´ve seen the film and the sad thing is that the teacher was not valued or misunderstood as they often are.I can´t remember that they quoted Friends, Romans, etc. There you are...
Roberto welcome it is a pleasure to help.
María I see your point flattery is dangerous and according to my father men are more susceptible to it than women, I hope he is right!
Shakespeare does say things better or clearer than others, when he talks about friendship I think he hits the nail on its head. Friends very often disappoint one even when you have tried their adoption, but so does family, partners, lovers, and everyone it is very difficult to find someone staunch.

maría 5ºB dijo...

Marta, I also hope your father is right (is he better?). It is women that usually flatter, and also flattery is usually adressed to men. I don´t know whether it is a universal behaviour, but what I´ve seen around me: women act out of self-interest and have no qualms about obtaining what they want. Women are more wicked than men, do you agree?

Elena Gil - 5B dijo...

Very interesting a discussion here!

Regarding women being more wicked, well, it may be true. But I believe society (and men's society more specifically) is responsible for that. Women had neither official power nor influence in society until this late times. So we had to be more wicked indeed to achieve some things. On the other hand, we should be careful, because, while we are discussing about this supposed wickedness of us, we keep on being wary of each other and this prevents us from growing, both in the strict and metaphorical sense (in my opinion). Finally, when I think of the times I've sensed this distrust on other women, a man (let he be her man or not) is always in their mind. How sad, don't you think?

Regarding what has been mentioned by Susana and Maria about stepping two times into the same stone, I think this is rather healthy, or at least, healthier than stepping one time and preventing yourself from wandering around for fear to repeat it. Doesn't that also happen to you?

As for friends, in my opinion, we will always be disappointed by people, though we sometimes forget we are also disappointing them back from time to time - I suppose we should be matched for the friendship to continue.

By the way, Natalia and I saw a rather interesting theatre play on Saturday, called "Hoy se ensaya Hamlet", by Fundacion Shakespeare, in Casa de Vacas (Retiro). Should you to buy the tickets with Atrapalo.com, it costs only 4 euros - We enjoyed it very much, and I may say it enlightened us a bit more on Shakespeare's work!

marta dijo...

María,I agree that it is women who flatter more and it is probably due to what you say but I agree with Elena it is because we´ve had no power that we´ve had to use underhand methods. It is very easy to be straight if you are in command but how do you get anything if you don´t?
Men also have their underhand methods, for example when they are unloyal to a woman, they never own it unless they are either caught or the lover induces them, Felipe Gonzalez is a recent and clear example of this. Then society blames the woman as crafty and as having broken a marriage, few people think it is the man´s fault when it is often he who is bound.

cesar dijo...

why married couples get divorced.
Given reasons why couples get divorced is not easy.
As we all have such different psychologies and the motives that provoke the breakup of this relations are, sometimes,so inexplicable that it would be necessary to write another British Encyclopedia to understand why people get into this troubles.
Leaving aside the main family, close or distant relatives, friends et,.who generally like given some advices and opinions about
relationships, I think that the lack of a genuine individual liberty is one of the main divorces cause.
At the beginning relations can look excellent for one time, short or long, as long as couples are in love but as time goes on,
arguments, dissatisfactions, emotional violence even physical can appear and, then, relations go often through to the love to the hate and to the hate to the love.
Another causes like desire of possession and to want to have the reason, jealousy, control, manipulation,tendency to blame and boredom could avoid by keeping three spaces, the woman space, the man space and to share obligations.
The truly question would be: Is there any motive to maintain the couples together?.

Rebeca 4ºB dijo...

Hello, I´m a bit sad this afternoon because the holidays are ending...However, It helps me to be good humoured that in two weeks we will can enjoy another ones.
As Elena, I think this siubject is very interesting, but it´s an endless one too! Talking about women and men´s relationships is a commond subject between us, but its conclusions usually depend on its speakers, I mean, if they´re men or women.
I disagree regarding what Maria said. I´m nearly sure that women are more honest than me. I belive that our intelligent (what is bigger than men´s one) is sometimes bewildered with our supposed wickedness. Of course, I´think that we need more power among the actual society, but I´m also sure that we will get it very soon

Roberto dijo...

I have just seen the video and I don't like it, firstly because it is not a play, and secondly on account of considering the extract as solemn and grave, appropriated to be told in a more intimate atmosphere. Besides Laertes does not seem to be conscious of the important advice he is being given.

maría 5ºB dijo...

Of course each opinion depends on each speaker, but I´ve tried to be objective according to what I see around me. However, I reassert: men are more sincere than women. Women usually conceal their real thoughts about anything, keeping manners, while men act withouth thinking a lot, instinctively. That´s why sometimes they put their foot in it, but other time they are successful. Women are behind men yet, and it may be a very good reason why to feel inferior. But also a woman can feel so among other woman. Because we tend to compare ourselves more than men. And it is when you feel this inferiority that you behave as a wicked person.
As you will have noticed, I had had better experiences with men than with women, for the moment.
Couples and divorces are another issue, where many aspects are concerned. But it is women that usually obtain the worst situation after getting divorced, in every single way, come what may.

Elena Gil - 5B dijo...

Maria, I believe you are right when saying we tend to behave wickedly when we feel inferior after a comparison. But haven't we always had to compete for men? and might that not have been the seed of our need for comparison? The matter lies in the fact that men competed by carrying out actions, but instead, we had to do it in beauty or using our feminine wiles to seduce them. And that's so much less healthy! Indeed if women didn't succeed in getting a man, many options were not shown to them... Thus, how couldn't they be wicked? I suppose we have it in our genes.

Elena Gil - 5B dijo...

Anyway, some women clearly have more of these particular genes than others!

rebeca 4ºB dijo...

Hello. I agree with you, Maria; women don´t usually say what we tink.I don´t know why, but it´s like that. However, I belive that men show often the same behaviour, altough you had said that they speak without thinking about what they are going to say. I belive they express their feelings harder than us, but they also gauging what they will tell. And, as far as I concerned, women are not really behind men, we probably have less power in some topics, as politics, but we are increasing our attendance in areas like business,science, laws,... Finally, I think as you about how harm inferiority´s feelings can cause to someone; if they appeared, they could turn someone in a wicked pearson, either woman or man.

maría 5ºB dijo...

Of course Elena, women are worried about many things that men don´t care at all. Women figth for a man, and men don´t (usually); women want to be at home with children, and they don´t, women are worried about beauty, and they aren´t... That´s why women are behind men. And till this doesn´t change, we will not be equals. Don´t you think, Rebeca? Men have only one objective, or two, while women have thousand of them.

Jesús A1B dijo...

I was to write a comment about the Polonius advice, but I've discovered with astonishment this fierce sex war!

In my opinion, generalizing is a risky task. I think it is great we are so different, but if we discuss who is better or worse, we will find out with ease that this is a useless effort. Maybe it is because I feel as the exception of the rule (I am sure all men do), and I think some of the written topics about men don't match with me.

However the rest of this line of argument is not suitable for this blog, so I will go on with the Polonius advice.

Of course it is difficult to understand, but after reading it carefully you can almost realize what it is about. My favourite sentence is "Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment". It is always better to take advantage of the criticism you are given. Actually it is the only way to learn. Furthermore if you avoid judging people without knowledge enough, it will increase your humility and equanimity.

Rebeca 4ºB dijo...

hello

You are right, Maria; women have always more thinks in the mind than men, but it only shows we are able to do different things at the same time. Affortunatly, we are not equals, and instead of wanting to get that target, we shoul attempt to enjoy the same opportunities. And as Shakespeare tried to describe at his novel Hamlet, women wll get it by listening everyone (and as a result, learning of it), but not teling all what we think.

Rebeca 4º B dijo...

I hadn´t read your comment before Jesus, but it´s true that the nature human catches every chance to defend its genre (male or female). But you will have notice that these kind of comments are always related to Hamlet´s article, and sometimes it´s also funny speak about these items.

On the other hand, and about Polonius advice, I disagree with you a bit. I think that are many different ways to learn, not only one, altough one of the best were that that you said.In my opinion, people are more complex than to have only one way to learn, and of course it will always depend on the person; we are all different. I think Polonius wanted to make us think about our behaviour, but not to give a only advice.

Elena Gil - 5B dijo...

I know that generalizations are only that, but Maria, I totally agree with you.

MAR. (fourth) dijo...

I have read and re-read the text today, it has token me a long time. Also I have read your comments today, it has token me a long time as well, thanks to you (all of you) I can understand most of its meaning but I can´t understand the whole meaning YET, (I´m sorry), so I´m looking forward very much to enjoying our next English class, as I think we will discuss about this subject.

I want to tell you my poor point of view: We, who did not live in the 16th and early 17th centuries, must realize that even in a world in which change is constant, there are some things that never change and I believe never will. I mean still sounds like mighty grand advices, don´t it?

Rebeca 4ºB dijo...

Hi!
My thoughts are very similar to Mar´s ones; I belive the message of any text can change every time you read it. I´m sure it is due to our lives change too, and it is not the same the meaning that you would give it when you were a child, than nowadays. But, in my opinion, is there where we can find the greatness of the literature; it is able to adapt us, and the different ages.

maría 5ºB dijo...

I agree with Roberto. I dislike the video. Both Polonious and Laertes are in a hurry and so great words lose their significance.
Well Jesus, we only can talk about generalizations, and you are the exception that proves the rule! ;)

marta dijo...

Rebeca we will can have, is impossible, can does not have a future it only has present and past so you have to use to be able to. Our intelligence what is bigger, no, which is bigger. What is nominal you want the relative,ok?
Roberto I agree with you the video is not good, but not so bad either, Laertes is young and probably not so ready to listen to advice, and he is in a hurry.
Jesús it is Polonius´not the Polonius´. No wonder you are a little put out with the war as you call it but it is interesting.You´ve made a good choice, it is good to listen to what others have to say about you and very difficult too
María has a point men are more honest sometimes and women don´t always say things straight but it is because of having to guard themselves because of this lack of power. I´m sure that a woman with power i.e. money or a very good job will speak openly.
Rebeca, you will have noticeD, Fortunately, and all that, not all what.
I´ve read all your comments and they are sound, I do think that the advice is good for today if you follow it you won´t get into a scrape abroad, though the world has changed a lot and we are in a global world it is still easy to offend people from a different country so we should take good note of what Polonius says.
I agree that until we don´t forget our looks and we don´t depend on men emotionally we won´t be the same but I´m afraid we are still a long way from that.

maría 5ºB dijo...

Yes Marta, you are right when you say that if women had power, we would speak openly. But what is power for us? That´s the problem. Power´s meaning for women is not the same as for men. There are many cases where women have money and good jobs but they get depressed, because for us, it is not enough. Yesterday I saw "Dangerous liasons" which tells the story about a woman (Glenn Close) who having got a very good social status and wealth, wastes her life and loses everything by looking for taking revenge on the man who had betrayed her. She bet everything and lost. We are bad in business, because passion blinds us.

Rebeca 4ª B dijo...

Yes Maria, women often give feelings more importance than business. On the contrary, it doesn´t mean we weren´t good at them (many times we are better than men), but we are disposed to sacrifice our pride in order to get a personal wise. As Marta said, this emotionall reliance is the main hindrance in our way to the real power. However we are nearer to it every day, and according to it, I´d like to underline one of the ideas that Polinious tries to give us; you must always be yourself.

Jesús A1B dijo...

I agree with you, Rebeca, that there are more ways to learn than taking "each man´s censure".

Maybe I was too exagerated in my statement. However I think that it is very difficult to stand but extremely instructive as well. I will give you a simple example about something that has just happened to me recently. A very good friend of mine, accused me of not getting in touch with him as frecuently as I shoud. My first reaction was not good, becouse I do feel he is not right due to the effort I sometimes make to see him. But only if I consider his criticism, I can reach to the conclusion that maybe he misses me or he requires my attention.

I know, it is an stupid example, but I think that the advice is worth it.

Jesús A1B dijo...

I`m sorry: The advice worth it.

Elena Gil - 5B dijo...

Just to say there are very interesting comments again! I'll try to write my opinion this week too.

Jesús A1B dijo...

I´m afrad I have made a mistake in the correction, so finally, "the advice is worth it" as I wrote for the first time.

In addition, I would like to say that the text is actual, even when it is refered to the dress code. Specially with the sentence: "For the apparel oft proclaims the man" , which is supposed to be controversial nowadays. In my opinion the first impression will always be the first one, so we cannot avoid prejudging people in one way. At least for the first ten minutes. Of course after that period, we will have the opportunity to know the person in the deep down and judge him or her ir order to the personal background. But, in my opinion, unless you know a person, the only evidence we have to glimpse how he or she is, is the appearence.

What do you think?

Rebeca4ºB dijo...

Hello everyone.

I agree with your comments, Jesus, because it is true we let ourselves be guided by first impressions. But on the opposite, we all know that this can happen, so we are usually awake before it. It helps us to be carefull with our judgments in order not to be wrong.We can never forget we are talking about people, not about something inert, and they could feel dbb after listening how they´re perceived by the other ones.

maría 5ºB dijo...

I absolutely agree with Jesús. First impression is very important. As someone said: "There is only one chance to make a good first impression". So you have to be careful and to be always fantastic!
Rebeca, you are also right, but it is very difficult to change those bad first impressions. People could feel sad by knowing what we think of them, but "Give thy thougths no tongue", and they won´t suffer.

cris 4ºA dijo...

I've been very busy and I haven't written for many days. there are a lot of good comments what have helped me to undersand the advise better.
It is said that fist impressions are very important but we have to be carefull because all that glitters is not gold, and sometimes do we let give our opinion only with first impressions and they aren't just. many people act so good that we think that they are bubly but they aren't

maría 5ºB dijo...

Of course Cris, your eyes don´t deceive you, it depends on your capacity of observation, of interpretation, and on your understanding

Carmen dijo...

I´m surprised at the amount of comments, it´s quite difficult to catch up, but I´ll do my bit. María, it´s true, in my opinion what you say about women being "false"in comparison to men, the question is whether it is bacause we have needed to fight our way to position and even food or whether that is inherent in us. I think that both, why did the serpent choose Eve? The devil was not stupid!!!! I do agree that men are more sincere, provided the "womanizer" is ruled out, personally, I´m quite outspoken and men find it devastating and prefer to listen to a whole pack of lies!!!
As to new friends, we like them because they are playing a part, it is when they show themselves as they are that we are surprised, shocked or disappointed...and then we have to eccept them as they are or forget them.
Elena, women live for men, I´ve come to terms with this idea long ago. I think it has to do with reproduction,so they are literally stupified when in love and they will fight anyone who threatens this. We are worse than men, more cunning and devious.
I´ll post Othello´s part, is it the one before he kills her, Roberto?

marta dijo...

María you are right about our blindness, we are not as cold as men, and that ruin´s us, it was to do with love too, that is our greatest ruin.
Rebeca, Polonius says be true to yourself....
Jesús, you have to make an inversion because you started your sentence with only, a negative adv.
To know the person in depth.
Even when it refers to the dress....I agree with you that appearence helps you make an impression of a person and often it stays if you don´t see the person again. It is important also in a job interview, it tells a lot about a person.
María I like that sentence it is very true!!
Cris it is true but often also the first impression is correct.

maría 5ºB dijo...

Carmen, I think we can´t know the reason why we act in a "bitchy" way, whether it is because of our quest for power (Jane Eyre) or because it is in our genes (Lizzy Bennet). We can´t know it because never has it happened the contrary throughout history.
As to women live for men it is true. My grandmother, who is the cleverest old woman I know, says: "A woman is what a man wants, but only if the woman wants to be so". I don´t know if I´ve done the traduction properly. Isn´t she a genius?
Marta, we may be a ruin but we are wonderful! And they can´t live without us! ;)

Jesús A1B dijo...

Marta, thanks for all your correntions. I cannot find which
sentence started with only I sould invert. But only did I search my last two comments .

Actually I am trying to insert the inversion in my literary writing style, but it is difficult to know the procedure in depth .

Thank you again.

Rebeca 4ºB dijo...

I entirely agree with Maria´s grandmother´s words; whole of men are only disposed to live with us if we behave in the way they want.On the other hand, and althuogh the can live without us, they could never be really happies alone; every man who is besides a woman, acquires od that relationship a lot of selfconidence.

Rebeca 4ºB dijo...

Sorry, HAPPY. Luckily, Christmas holidays begin today at schools, and therefore calificatios have been just given to pupils, since if not, I could fail by this mistake!

marta dijo...

María your grandmother is a genius but not all women can do it! I´m not sure I can for instance.
Jesús it is: only if I consider his criticism CAN I REACH. That is the inversion you should have made. Double check another time please!
Rebeca: a whole load of men...,
Every man who is beside a woman. Besides y a link.
I´m not so sure it is not the other way round, some women do everything that men tell them to, it depends on whether you want to dominate or be dominated. Don´t you think?

maría 5ºB dijo...

Oh you can, Marta. Every woman that loves a man, would be able to do everything he wanted, but only if she wants to do it. It depends on you, it is your independence inside the relationship, but a independence that conduces to success. You would be dominated if you do what your man wants you to do, despite your not wanting to do it. Do you see what I mean? There is a difference.

Jesús A1B dijo...

Ok. Thank you again!

Elena Gil - 5B dijo...

Hi! I can't catch up with all comments now, but as I was reading Carmen's comment on Eve and the serpent, I remembered a recent book, "El infinito en la palma de la mano", by Gioconda Belli. It's a sensitive and rather insightful version of Adan&Eve's story based on the Apocrypha. I really recommend it to everyone - it throws some light on the issue of relationships, I think.

Roberto dijo...

Thank you for your compliments. I sincerely appreciate them.

Anyway, I have memorized it for I like it very much.

:-)

Paloma dijo...

“In Elizabethan theatre there was little scenery and no curtains, no way to distinguish day from night, fog from sunshine, other than through words. So scenes had to be set with a few verbal strokes.
No one set scenes more brilliantly and economically than Shakespeare. Consider the opening lines of Hamlet:
Bernardo: “Who’s there?”
Francisco: “Nay, answer me. Stand and unfold yourself”
Bernardo: “Long live the King!”
Francisco:”Bernardo?”
Bernardo: “He”
In five terse lines Shakespeare establishes that it is night-time and cold (“unfold yourself” means “draw back your cloak”), that the speakers are soldiers on guard, and that there is tension in the air. With joust fifteen words – eleven of them monosyllables –he has the audience’s full, rapt attention.”
I’ve read this paragraph many times and, I assure you, I’m unable to appreciate those things in the dialog. People at that time was, by far, more intelligent than I am.

Paloma dijo...

One more thing about Shakespeare and Hamlet:
“Shakespeare was not a particularly prolific writer… Even so, sings of haste abound in Shakespeare’s work even in the greatest of his plays. Hamlet is a student at the beginning of the play and thirty years old by its end, even though nothing like enough time has passed in the story.”
Isn’t it curious? Never more true that of “The best writer makes an ink blot”

Paloma dijo...

Very funny indeed!!!!
"Much is often made of Shakespeare's learning ....It has even been sugested - seriously it would appear - that two lines in Hamlet("Doubt that the stars are fire/Doubtthat the sun doth move") indicate that he deduced the orbital motions of heavenly bodies well before any astronomer did."

carmen dijo...

Reallyinteresting, I was not aware that yiu were in Scotland, that´s where you got the shortbread from, it was delicious, I had to try one!!! and I did, in the Department

María dijo...

Paloma, about your not being able to appreciate those things in those fifteen words, see that it is said "audience", not "readers". So it´s different to read something from watching it on the stage. You´d have got it too!

Roberto dijo...

Paloma, very amusing comments indeed.

I love watching a play knowing that nothing else but words are needed so as to have you "spellbound".

Paloma dijo...

Thank you to you all for your kind words. I went to Edinburg because it was our 26 wedding anniversary on the 30th of January. I liked the city very much and people there is really kind, helpful and friendly, if only they spoke a bit slowly!

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